> Predatory bear behavior is rare and most bear attacks have nothing to > do with them wanting to eat anyone. In fact most "attacks" are bluff > charges - a bear's way of saying "go away this is my territory". > (Polar bears are the exception - but few of us are lucky enough to > paddle in polar bear territory). That's the received wisdom I was always taught. Turns out it's not quite accurate. I was always taught here in Michigan that Black bears will absolutely not attack humans, that all attacks were feints that would stop short, and that any noise would scare them off. Then I started to hear first hand stories of people attacked and chased by bears. And this, from a Yellowstone information page: "On average, 3 people a year are killed and eaten by black bears in North America." Friend have told me stories of Grizzlies that raided their Alaska campsites and rooted about for food, completely ignoring them. I have also met people who have been attacked, without warning, by Black bears that would not be scared off. Bear behavior is unpredictable. If you're going to be travelling in bear country, you should be prepared for any and all possibilities. -- mike ----------------------------------- Michael Edelman medelman_at_ameritech.net http://www.foldingkayaks.org http://www.findascope.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Edelman wrote: >> Predatory bear behavior is rare > > That's the received wisdom I was always taught. Turns out it's not quite > accurate. I was always taught here in Michigan that Black bears will > absolutely not attack humans, that all attacks were feints that would > stop short, and that any noise would scare them off. I tend to regard most pieces of advice that include the words "absolutely," "all," and "any" with some skepticism. > Then I started to > hear first hand stories of people attacked and chased by bears. And > this, from a Yellowstone information page: "On average, 3 people a year > are killed and eaten by black bears in North America." Assuming you meant web page, how about posting the URL? I ask because I just googled "bear fatalities" (and got lots of references to dead bears) and looked at this page http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/wlm/game/blkbear/blkbear4.htm put up by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. They say "In North America approximately 45 fatalities have been attributed to black bears since 1900. More than half of those fatalities have happened since 1970." That's not 3 people a year. The only first hand report I can offer is the time my wife and I were hiking in the Smokies with the kids, who were maybe 5 and 10 y.o. They were about 50 yards up the trail from us, in full view, when an adolescent black bear walked onto the trail between us and them. For sure, chase behavior ensued. And if that bear had been any slower, my kids' Mama would have kicked his butt good. So don't get between a mama and her cubs, even if you're a bear. -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA A supporter of the right to arm bears. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm no expert on bears and I certainly don't deal with the threat on a routine basis like some of you but I recall talking with a wildlife ecology grad student who worked one summer on a bear and moose research crew in the Great Lakes area. They stayed in the backcountry for a week or two at a time and daily baited bear monitoring stations with bacon grease and a variety of stinky meat products. He said that everyone on the crew smelled like the breakfast special at Denny's from day one. To a bear at night in their sleeping bags they must have appeared to be the lost mystical super-sized sausages of bear fairy tales. They never had an incident with a bear doing anything more than wandering through camp. He laughed about advice to never bring a granola bar in your tent - he said that any bear would have chosen them over a granola bar any day! I'm not suggesting that smearing yourself with bacon grease at bedtime and wearing your favorite Oscar Mayer, pork chop-flavored PJs is sound advice in bear country...just passing along a bear related anecdote. K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 23 Jun 2003 at 15:32, Keith Wrage wrote: > more than wandering through camp. He laughed about advice to never > bring a granola bar in your tent - he said that any bear would have > chosen them over a granola bar any day! If you smell like bacon, maybe... but in general not bringing food or other smelly stuff (even toothpaste) into your tent is a good idea. No sense attracting a bear or _any_ other wildlife. I once had a snack in a bag and was called to go do something on a canoe trip. I tossed it into my tent, zipped the door and went to the others. 'Bout a half hour later, I returned to my snack to find it seriously nibbled and a chipmunk-sized hole in the size of my tent. If you don't care about your life but still value your gear, don't put food in your tent. Ever. Clean campsite rules. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 23 Jun 2003 at 15:14, Steve Cramer wrote: > Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. They say "In North America > approximately 45 fatalities have been attributed to black bears since > 1900. More than half of those fatalities have happened since 1970." > That's not 3 people a year. There was an article I read last year (year before? - can't remember where, though) concerning the increase in bear incidents in the last several decades. There were several hypotheses, most of which run along the lines of the increase in pressure on bears (due to expansion of human occupied terrain since WWII and subsequent reduction of bear foraging areas) and the increase in numbers of people going into the wilderness without proper care to avoid bear encounters. > kids' Mama would have kicked his butt good. So don't get between a > mama and her cubs, even if you're a bear. Never get between a female and her brood, regardless of species. Ever see a soccer mom foaming at the mouth? :-) Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I guess the "why" about bear attacks is a little far flung for a kayaking list, but I can't resist: I have another theory about the increase in attacks. The fundamentals of habitat encroachment haven't changed. Sure there is more encroachment, but there are also fewer animals. What has changed dramatically is a reduction of hunting pressure. Bears, mountain lion, coyote, and wolf are all intelligent animals. They run on instinct to a degree, but much of what they need for survival is transferred by learning from the mother (or parents, aunts, uncles, and siblings in the case of wolves and coyotes). How many generations would it take for these creatures to loose their terror of humans? In CA, just looking at the difference in bear behavior in national parks (hunting prohibited), to national forests (hunting permitted), answers the question. National parks are plagued with misbehaving bears raiding campsites and cars. National forests generally have bear tracks and bear droppings, but no bears. I really don't know how the tracks and droppings get there. I have always backpacked in forests and wilderness areas (hunting also permitted) for that very reason. I'm chicken, and lazy. I have never hung my food, and only given casual observance to the no eating in the tent rule. Our camp has never been raided and we have never seen a bear in camp. We've seen a mother with cubs at a trailhead, a young bear running across a road, and that one big one on the trail that I wrote about recently. I'm not advocating that other adopt my poor "bearmanship", but the lack of trouble over all these years says a lot about what deters bears. I personally haven't hunted them (though I'm not opposed), and most people who do don't actually get one. Nevertheless, all those hunters running around in the woods trying to find and shoot a bear have made my backpacking trips much less stressful over the years. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- .......There were several hypotheses, most of which run along the lines of the increase in pressure on bears..... Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 23 Jun 2003 at 16:41, Steve Brown wrote: > How many generations would it take > for these creatures to loose their terror of humans? In CA, just > looking at the difference in bear behavior in national parks (hunting > prohibited), to national forests (hunting permitted), answers the > question. National parks are plagued with misbehaving bears raiding > campsites and cars. National forests generally have bear tracks and > bear droppings, but no bears. Do parks have more car camping than the forests? Certainly bear behavior and opportunism are affected by the large numbers of people who make it easy for animals to get food. This is probably much more significant than the relatively infrequent encounters that bears might have with hunters. IOW, it isn't the deterence so much as the ease of access to food that affects them. Cliff Jacobson (and others) suggest not hanging food in true wilderness. The justification is that bears will not significantly break their pattern of following their own foraging routes and thus will not likely find your food unless it's smelly. If you try this in a park, the bears follow a path through the campsites and _will_ find your food. Hence a difference due to the bears being accustomed to our behavior. BTW "smelly" is relative. Bears are more like bloodhounds than humans when it comes to following scents. In Algonquin, at one campsite near the highway, the chipmunks will run right across your plate under your nose and swipe food. The raccoons in most of Algonquin's easy access campsites are quite brazen as well (one once followed us up a hiking trail and, when we sat to enjoy the view, pulled at the sweater wrapped around one woman's waist, made itself a nest and curled up to sleep - did you know that contented raccoons purr like cats?). You'll never see that in wilderness - but hunting chipmunks and raccoons isn't very common. Killbear Provincial Park doesn't have many bear problems. Now the name of the park is derived from a misspelling of the aboriginal word for the area and isn't derived from kill + bear. The reason is not due to actions towards bears so much as the fact that the regional dump is not far outside the park. I've never seen a bear in the park boundaries, but have seen one at the dump. Rather that fuss with the noisy humans in the park, the bears can browse at their leisure in the dump. No one would reasonably try training a dog with punishment. Treats work wonders and good dogs will work with verbal rewards. Same with bears. Feed 'em and they keep coming back. Punish them (hunting) won't be as effective. OTOH, Karelian dogs have been used with success as bear deterents in, umm, Yellowknife (or was it Yosemite?). Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 23 Jun 2003 at 20:41, Michael Daly wrote: > success as bear deterents in, umm, Yellowknife (or was it Yosemite?). Ooops, make that Yellowstone, not Yellowknife. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Assuming you meant web page, how about posting the URL? I ask because I > just > googled "bear fatalities" (and got lots of references to dead bears) and > looked > at this page http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/wlm/game/blkbear/blkbear4.htm put up > by the > Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. They say "In North America > approximately 45 fatalities have been attributed to black bears since > 1900. More > than half of those fatalities have happened since 1970." That's not 3 > people a year. Steve, good story about your wife! If I ever meet the two of you in person, remind me not to tick her off. Any woman who runs towards bears is more than I want to tangle with :-) I did a quick Yahoo search on "Black Bear Attacks on humans" and came up with lots and lots of responses. I glanced at them for just a few minutes, and the contradictions and discrepancies were alarming. I can add this, though. Forty five fatalities since 1900 seems too low. I'm in Virginia. In the past two decades, I've probably read in the papers or seen on the news, stories of bear attacks in the state, and it seems like about 7 or 8 people died that I can vaguely recall (in the last couple decades, but my memory could be wrong) - just in Virginia and just in the last 20 years. Although, one was actually in North Carolina, and occurred within hours of my wife and I passing that section of trial (not too far from Grandfather Mountain). Anyway, how are they counted and by whom, and how are they tracked? The other thing is... how many people survived? Forty five fatalities may not be bad, but what if that's 45 dead out of thousands attacked and mauled but lived? You can get awfully close to being number 46 but not quite die. I'd be more concerned with the number and frequency of attacks rather than fatalities. And, by "attacks", I don't mean being charged and having the bajeebers scared out of you, but I mean physical contact and drawing blood to some degree or another. Rick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I know this has been recommended before, but for any newcomers interested in bear behavior, Stephen Herrero's "Bear Attacks" is a fascinating book, chock full of information. There is a new edition. This book will give you a solid basis for sifting through all the anecdotes and misinformation you will encounter both on the net and around the campfire. Tom Joyce ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Bears are a relevant subject to kayaking, and firearms are a relevant > subject when dealing with bears. I think your only about two steps away here from connecting sea kayaking to Kevin Bacon! Probably the most memorable meal I have ever partaken was not in some outrageously priced restaurant in Laguna Beach where the waiters wear white gloves and set your napkin on your lap for you (I can do that myself, thank you very much), but rather an unpretentious breakfast on a remote beach on the outer coast of Vancouver Island. It was a few years ago and my two companions and myself had been out kayaking for about a week and were slowly heading back to our starting point at Tofino. We were still a few days away when we stopped for the night at this wonderful little cove with a small creek which came out of the forest and ran down the beach into the ocean. When we awoke the next morning we were surprised to find fresh wolf tracks around and through our little camp. I was a little disappointed in that I am generally a very light sleeper and would have loved to catch a glimpse of our nocturnal guests. Regardless, we set about making breakfast in some larger rocks by the creek which would serve as makeshift stools and tables. As we were having breakfast a large black bear (have you ever noticed how there are never any stories about small bears) ambled out of the forest about a hundred yards down the beach and began foraging for it's own breakfast in the tide pools that had been exposed by the low tide. We were not "packing any heat," and as far as I could tell neither was the bear -- so there would be no unnecessary shootings on this morning. We just continued with our meal, as did the bear. Just as we were aware of the bear's presence, so it was aware of ours. We didn't bother it, and it didn't bother us. Eventually the bear wandered back into the forest, and we packed up and left. I think of that breakfast on the beach as the definition, as least for me, of what sea kayaking is all about, and why I do it. Sure, I love the speed and adrenaline rush of dropping down the face of a big wave in my surf boat. But you don't really remember the individual waves. Not like that morning on Vancouver Island with Rod and Lowell, and my friend the bear. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Nevertheless, all those hunters > running around in the woods trying to find and shoot a bear have made my > backpacking trips much less stressful over the years. > Yeah, your right. We should just pave all of the wilderness and paint it green. Just think of how "UN-stressful" that would be. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The "Backpacker" Magazine article from 1995 http://www.backpacker.com/article/0,2646,148__1_2,00.html quotes Herro the author of "Bear Attacks: Their causes and Avoidance" that since 1906 there have been at least 49 grizzly related deaths and 33 attributed to black bears. 82 deaths in 88 years. No idea what has happened recently. The artical also states that "Herrero's research turned up no cases of attacks on parties of six or more." Furthermore "Each of the last four grizzly-related deaths in Glacier have involved solo hikers, as have several attacks in Yellowstone. As someone planning an early fall trip to Shosone Lake in Yellowstone and Glacier, this is quite relevant to the list. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thoughts from Alaska: I really don't know where the brain children get their statistics for 'on average 3 people per year in North America' from...they never include Alaska in that number. As most professional guides (fish/hunting) here will tell you - if a brown bear (grizz) comes into camp, they get shooed away; if a black bear comes into camp, they will most times as not shoot the bear on site. This is because the blackie will continue to come back and haunt you whereas a brown bear will go away. Blacks have certainly been known to 'stalk' people here, mostly out of curiosity. It is also common knowledge here when confronted by a black bear, stand and defend yourself; when confronted by a brown, play dead. I have been on multi day paddling trips with black bears roaming several yards from my tent, with nary a problem. I did, however, have my 'hand cannon' very near! I like to think that it was due to the fact that I was in remote country where bears are not prone to human contact. Yosemite bears are certainly different. Bottom line: I do not travel unarmed into bear country, period. Bears are like humans, very unpredicatble. A recent article ran in our local paper of a man and his wife out on a hike charged by a brown bear. He was carrying 'bear spray' and used it. He and his wife were between a sow and her cub. The spray turned away the sow. Within a week, every store in town was out of bear spray. You can find the article at www.adn.com - look in their archives. The story ran the weekend of the 14th. Happy paddling! Scott in Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>'Bout a half hour later, I returned to my snack to find it seriously nibbled and a chipmunk-sized hole in the size of my tent. Mouse-sized holes in my drybags really get me PO'ed!! Shawn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Steve Brown" <steve_at_brown-web.net> wrote: >what I have read is that Black Bear attacks, when they occur, are usually to eat you. I think this is a generally accepted fact about black bears because the web site quoted on a later post says this: "In the unlikely event a black bear attacks you (meaning he thinks you are prey)" I would think more likely that you threatened a mother bear's cub. They will kill or wound you, and then hustle off to make sure the cub is okay. Look how many people are killed by moose (but not eaten). >avoiding attack and surviving attack which seem to contradict one-another. They say avoid eye contact to avoid a charge, presumably so you won't look threatening Pretty much the same advice for avoiding and surviving attacks by 2-legged predators. What's confusing? >(I think that's good advice for a Griz), but then wave your arms, look big and tall like a human so you will look threatening. Black bear advice. I don't know about the arm waving bit, but it's a very good idea to look big. If there's any doubt in the bear's mind, you want them to decide that you look too big to bother with. If you look small and like an easy target, chances are, you'll be an easy target. >Playing dead sounds like an invitation to be eaten immediately to me. You need to know a little about bear behavior. Looking threatening to an animal who is used to being the king of the forest will get you a butt-whupping. They're not used to be threatened by anything but a bigger bear. If you threaten them, they decide you're a threat to their territory and their safety, and they'll neutralize the threat. If you don't look threatening, and you don't look like a meal (what would you rather eat? elk tenderloins or goretex?), the bear will avoid you---you must give them the opportunity to get away. Secondly, bears do not feed immediatly. Griz are carrion feeders. They'd sooner let you rot awhile before eating you. Most likely, they'll wound you...if you play dead, they'll leave you to rot, and when they're clearly gone, you can get away. Humans have taken up so much space on this planet that the real wildlife has gotten compressed into exponentially smaller spaces. And now we want to walk brazenly into their homes and shoot them when they feel threatened. It's not about taming the wild. 99% of the wild has already been tamed. Let's leave that last 1% wild. If we can't handle wilderness on its own terms, we should stay in the other 99%. Learn about bear behavior. I mean really learn about bears. If you still want to carry heat, fine. But I believe once you've educated yourself sufficiently, you won't feel as much need for the excess weight. Shawn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/24/2003 10:28:43 AM Central Standard Time, shawnkayak_at_yahoo.com writes: > I recently had a squirrel do almost $500 worth of damage to a couple of boats stored under a tarp. Nothing more than a rat with a presentation. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well, I have about a 50/50 rejection rate on this forum but I'll attempt this one for my wife. Bacon, perfume, food in general all are no no's. So what about women at their time of the month? Bear attractant, so some articles say; so will the ladies and other experts care to weight in? Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 25 Jun 2003 at 20:54, Kevin50110_at_aol.com wrote: > Bacon, perfume, food in general all are > no no's. So what about women at their time of the month? Bear > attractant, so some articles say; so will the ladies and other experts > care to weight in? Considered nonsense by most experts. Disposal of sanitary products fall into the same category as disposal of anything else - pack it in;pack it out - and don't leave any garbage loose around your campsite. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 15:01, Michael Daly wrote: > On 25 Jun 2003 at 20:54, Kevin50110_at_aol.com wrote: > > > Bacon, perfume, food in general all are > > no no's. So what about women at their time of the month? Bear > > attractant, so some articles say; so will the ladies and other experts > > care to weight in? > > Considered nonsense by most experts. Disposal of sanitary products > fall into the same category as disposal of anything else - pack it > in;pack it out - and don't leave any garbage loose around your > campsite. > > Mike Most "experts" are considered just that... Nonsense...and writers of fiction. based on little "real knowledge" In our culture, Athabascan women, who are on monthly cycle abstain from activity in fish camps. They do NOT venture out to gather berries or wander from camp. Its a Known fact, the bear can sense the smell/blood discharge.. There have been numberous accounts on record by the Park Service of attacks during these cycles. Though attacks now are in decline. Its not due to "experts" and their devices to fool "nature" and the bear. Its due mostly to the decline of the Bear period.. Pack it in/out theory might get one into big trouble. Rec paddlers/hikers seems to place to much "magazine time" for thir basis of wilderness knowledge. I.E I read it or heard it so therefore its true. Any remote area one is in danger period..A Duluth Pack full of sanitary napkins and camp trash is asking for trouble.. Burn the so mentioned debris. Dont carryit out like John Muir want to be. Rumors/Fables and book knowledge tends to get one in serious trouble. Do avoid animals... do what the locals do ! Not some idiots written words penned in ink 4000 miles away. Note what the wilderness permits say for Yellowstone Park !!!And how to avoid trouble... Most 90% people are only in semi remote areas, thus people have fed or amuzed the bears.. This is where problems come in. Paddle down the Yukon where bears "ARE Bears" and one will quickly learn what or what not works.If not expect trouble.. Same in Florida with gators.. Stay off narrow rivers in gator nesting/mating time. And away from "slides" Dont go walking around banks unless your are keenly observant... I myself have had more problems with eastern diamondbacks then gators. Simple... see one.. stay clear of it.. A young illegal Mexican was "ate" by a gator coupel weeks ago in Wachula... Reason? swimming in waste deep water on a remote stretch of the Peace river. His canoe in tow. Use absolute common sense in animal areas. If in North Country, those dirty white bears one see,s are Polar bears.. They see you and they are going to come period..They fear not nothing. after all they see you as food.. I was amuzed one year in Anchorage, On the Anc news they showed a "tourist" taking a pictures of a moose that had wandered into town. The film was rolling by the news crew.. The LL Bean clad tourist got closer to get his beloved pictures. The moose turned and tramped him to death. Guess he learned the hard way. Paddle down a Salmon run is in and the bears are feeding along its banks and your asking for trouble. W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I had kept my mouth shut reading all the different opinions about bear encounters. I even made a joke about, what is a bear? But.. I canīt stay quiet anymore. I have just been through a course in human resources selection and I was refreshed on the fact that many humanīs (mammals) behavior has a lot to do with the way they were treated by their mother on their first year. Secondly their behavior is strongly conditioned to how they react to this first mammal encounters. Depending on the mother approach and the view of the mother towards the father appears the possibility of hysterical, neurotic, perverse, pathological, depressive, aggressive, criminal or sexual behavior (homosexual - heterosexual). Being this not an exact rule but a very acceptable statistical behavior, and being bears mammals exposed to mothers that may have been strongly loving, depreciative, authoritative or absent will also condition bears, and their later influences enhance or reduce the first behavior patterns. Furthermore, for years they may have had all kinds of experiences, like having its close relatives shot by hunters, having been shot themselves, having been helped from traps by humans, having eaten human meet, or none of those, etc. Therefore, it seems to me, not knowing about bears, but trying to use some common sense, that it is very likely to have bears of all natures, like there are kind, brave, tamed, astute, aggressive and murderer dogs. For that reason I donīt think I would take any of the suggestions that are based on patterns of behavior. It would be kind of difficult also to stop and try to determine from the bearīs body language the patterns of his childhood and his relationship with his mother, in order to determine if playing big will develop his depression, tenderness, fear, anger or killer instincts. Maybe that is why statistics in different places yield such different results. Since I wouldnīt know what to do, I can only finish by telling the story of the Hunter in Africa who faced a Lion and his rifle failed. He got a very small 1inch long knife and started praying: "Oh God, if you are in the Lions side, please have him kill me immediately with the first strike. If you are on my side, let me hit his heart with the first stroke. Now if you are neutral, sit comfortable because youīll see a heck of a fight." Best Regards, Rafael el cayucochief www.mayanseas.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rafael, how many margaritas does it take to come to all of that psychological conclusion? :) PS Please save some for me sandy kramer who will be meeting rafael on saturday in Guadalajara miami *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rafael - one question in response to your post.... Should we also start offering 'bear therapy' sessions, conducted by Fish and Game, or Vocational Rehabilitation? Scott in Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Most "experts" are considered just that... Nonsense...and writers of >> fiction. based on little "real knowledge" > In our culture, Athabascan women, who are on monthly cycle > abstain from activity in fish camps. They do NOT venture out to gather > berries or wander from camp. > Its a Known fact, the bear can sense the smell/blood discharge.. > There have been numberous accounts on record by the Park Service of > attacks during these cycles. > W The specific problem is the pheromones inclusive in the serological discharge, not the blood scent itself. Male bears have a rather high level of serological testosterone that, of course, fluctuates with the season. Interestingly, and off topic, is the common green iguana so often seen in pet shops. This animal has the highest level of serological testosterone of any land vertebrate. Unexpected attacks by adult males upon their menstruating female owners are not uncommon. I agree with your post. Many of us rely too much upon armchair writers who express theory as compared to reality. The behaviour and practices of the locals are always the best illustration and guide for any specific region. And besides... the bears have not read the book! BTW, I'm new to the list; greetings to all. Regards, Holmes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 26 Jun 2003 at 13:51, Gaylon Holmes wrote: > I agree with your post. Many of us rely too much upon armchair > writers who express theory as compared to reality. The behaviour and > practices of the locals are always the best illustration and guide for > any specific region. Kindly back up you suggestion that Herrero is just an armchair writer. Local traditions based on superstition and other beliefs hardly constitutes knowledge. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 2003-06-26 at 22:35, Michael Daly wrote: > On 26 Jun 2003 at 13:51, Gaylon Holmes wrote: > > > I agree with your post. Many of us rely too much upon armchair > > writers who express theory as compared to reality. The behaviour and > > practices of the locals are always the best illustration and guide for > > any specific region. > > Kindly back up you suggestion that Herrero is just an armchair > writer. > > Local traditions based on superstition and other beliefs hardly > constitutes knowledge. > > Mike But would it not constitute vast experience? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 27 Jun 2003 at 23:48, Windwalker wrote: > > Local traditions based on superstition and other beliefs hardly > > constitutes knowledge. > > > > Mike > > But would it not constitute vast experience? Maybe. In some cases, the reasons for doing things are lost. In others they are clear. We don't always know why something is done; sometimes it makes sense, other times not. For example, IIRC, in some Inuit communities, the women are not allowed outside during a caribou hunt. They must remain hidden in their tents. Men and children are allowed out. Does this represent a vast experience that reasonably increases the likelyhood of success? If so, why was the practice not common in all Inuit communities? Ditto the practice of initiating a new kayak by peeing on it. This was done in some areas and not in others. Why? Customs are sometimes based on a single or small number of events that for some reason take on an outsized importance that can't be explained by looking more objectively at a larger number of events. Such is the nature of superstition and such. In the case of women and bears, there are a few cases of women being attached during their menstrual cycle. These anecdotes became the basis of a bias that exists in modern outdoor mythology about women and bears. However, Herrero and others have looked at a much larger number of women in bear country and have found that such a connection does not exist. Anecdotal evidence is not to be taken too seriously. After all, there's lots of anecdotal evidence that Elvis is still alive and well at the 7-11. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Message d'origine----- Michael Daly Objet : RE: [Paddlewise] Bears >In the case of women and bears, there are a few cases of women being attached during their menstrual cycle. Whatever their traditions, I'm definately against attaching women under *any* circumstances, Mike :)) Kevin Dyer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'd be interested in opinions of the group regarding technical aspects of attaching women. Is it anything like attaching barnacles? BRC Bradford R. Crain Dept. of Mathematical Sciences Portland State Univ. 724 SW Harrison St. 334 Neuberger Hall Portland, Or. 97201 e-mail: brad_at_mth.pdx.edu phone: 503.725.3127 fax: 503.725.3661 >>> "Kevin Dyer (E-mail)" <k.dyer_at_bluewin.ch> 06/27/03 11:26AM >>> -----Message d'origine----- Michael Daly Objet : RE: [Paddlewise] Bears >In the case of women and bears, there are a few cases of women being attached during their menstrual cycle. Whatever their traditions, I'm definately against attaching women under *any* circumstances, Mike :)) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All I know is that I attached to a woman about 29 years ago. She immediately made the attachment permanent and removed all remaining attachment points. Since then, any suggestion of adding additional attachment points (not that I would) gets me in serious trouble. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- I'd be interested in opinions of the group regarding technical aspects of attaching women. Is it anything like attaching barnacles? BRC Bradford R. Crain *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All I know is that I attached to a woman about 29 years ago. She immediately made the attachment permanent and removed all remaining attachment points. Since then, any suggestion of adding additional attachment points (not that I would) gets me in serious trouble. Steve Brown *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/30/2003 10:29:02 AM Pacific Standard Time, brad_at_mth.pdx.edu writes: > I'd be interested in opinions of the group regarding technical aspects > of attaching women. Gold and diamonds work well, but a large emerald has worked well for me for the past 18 years. Tony Niilus *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I'd be interested in opinions of the group regarding technical aspects > of attaching women. I'm uncomfortable with this discussion, because it's irresponsible. For safety and sanity's sake, you can't have a discussion like this without also including pertinent information on how to un-attach the woman later on. Dohhh! I did NOT go there - did I? Flame away, ladies.... I'm sure I must deserve it, but being a man who is sitting on his thumbs (I threw that one in for you, Jackie) I just can't see it. Ri... ahhh, I mean Jason, yeah, that's it, Jason *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 04:01 PM 6/30/03 -0400, Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com wrote: >> I'd be interested in opinions of the group regarding technical aspects >> of attaching women. > >I'm uncomfortable with this discussion, because it's irresponsible. For >safety and sanity's sake, you can't have a discussion like this without >also including pertinent information on how to un-attach the woman later >on. Dohhh! I did NOT go there - did I? What I want to know is how you attach a woman on Paddlewise without having demime stripping her. ;-) -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place NEW URL! -- http://www.kayakplace.com Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> What I want to know is how you attach a woman on Paddlewise without having > demime stripping her. ;-) > > -- Wes ASCII and ye shall receive... \ / | \ / \ | / __ ___ / __( ( )_ _( )___ \ | / _( ( ) __ _( )__ _( _( ) ______ ( ) ( ( )_ ( ( )__ __( ( ) ________ _( ______( ) _( ( ) (___ _ ___) ( ) / | (_______ ( _ _ ) | \ (_____ __ _(_ _ _ ) _ _ / \ / \O/ \ \ " / | _ _ \ / \O/ \ | " __/ ( /",o ((_at_ y _\`(_ sSSs, [ ['\"] (.`SSSSs, |__\ \L___ ___(,_SSSsSs_ \-------------------+--`----_at_)----(____ `' __)---/ ~~jf~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(` ; /SS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ `\ ^ (SSs ~~ ~~~~~ ~ ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~ /` `' \Ss` ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~uuuuuuuSs`~~ ~ ~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~'UUUUUUUU ~ ~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ \UUUUUU/ ~~~ ~ \UUUU/ ~ ~~~~ ~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~ \UUU /\ \UU\ / `} ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~~ (\ ~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ \UU\/ ``} >jf:-) jf" ,_.} ~ ~~~~ ~(/~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~/ `` \ Đ Jackie Fenton ~~ / `,~'" ~~ ~~~ '~~' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > What I want to know is how you attach a woman on Paddlewise without > > having demime stripping her. ;-) My kayak already has a mermaid riding a dolphin attached to the bow. My wife has accepted her, but I had problems when I brought another woman home - my wife refused to believe she just followed me home and would not allow me to keep her. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
WW said: Paddle down a Salmon run is in and the bears are feeding along its > banksand your asking for trouble. I very much second that....there is a relatively mild river just outside of Anchorage; Eagle River. Mostly class II water that canoeists love. More than one paddler has been chased out of their canoe when rounding a bend to come upon a brownie feasting on salmon/moose - the bear has literally charged into the river to get at the paddler. I refer back to my previous post regarding 'curious bears' - you can bet if they are around and smell blood, that they will investigate it. Generally, bears don't like the taste of humans. But do you want to be the human that gets 'tasted'? When in real bear country PEOPLE ARE NOT AT THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN! Remember that if nothing else, and act accordingly. Just several weeks ago, folks in Eagle River (a suburb of Anchorage) where being 'harassed' by an adolescent male brownie. A woman jogging along a somewhat busy road was chased by the bear - she hopped a guard rail and hid behind a tree several feet off the road. The bear had his front paw on the rail ready to cross it as a truck approached, honking it's horn and flashing it's lights...this scared the bear off and saved the woman's life. All she was doing to provoke the 'attack' was jogging down the road...this triggered the 'flight response' as experts would say, and caused the bear to give chase after 'prey'. Burn what is burnable, and pack out anything else in an airtight bag. A small 5L drybag fits nicely in a day pack. Carry some alcohol wipes to neutralize any smells on your hands....just because you don't smell it doesn't mean a bear won't. Hunting season here brings the bears. They have grown accustomed to rifle shots....just like ringing a dinner bell for them. The brown's will come and investigate the sound, knowing it typically means a fresh kill. More than one hunter has been chased away from a moose/sheep by a bear (or the bear has wound up dead). Another story: Several years ago an older gentlemen was on a day hike out in the Kenai Peninsula. It was the same trail he hiked daily for 20 years. He reached his turnaround...got out his stove, put water on to boil, and got out his packet of ramen noodles. Turns out, a young male brown bear had been stalking him for several miles. No-one is quite sure what happened, but the tracker explained it this way: as the man was bent down, the bear approached from out of the brush, the man had managed a shot from his little rifle (memory seems to tell me it was a .22 or something) - the bear came up and took one bite of the man's head....crushing his skull...then left. The ramen was undisturbed....as was the stove with the boiling water...authorities found the stove out, with an empty pot on it....the gas container was empty as well. What provoked this attack??? Who knows???? point is: bears are wholly unpredictable. be prepared. 'nuff said. Scott in Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Are you speaking of those real big guys we call Kodiaks or what in CA. or Oregon would be brown bear, technically, but usually looks black? If it's the Kodiaks, wow, lots of room for them from me. Back in the late 1950's I was counting trees for the Forest Service in the Siskiyou National Forest out of Grant's Pass, Oregon. We seldom went 10 days without a bear encounter when along the Rogue River and that area. In those days the bears usually looked more scared than us. It's totally unbelievable how fast one of these bears can run thru' THICK Manzanita brush while going up a 45 degree slope. Lots faster than I could ever do 50 yards on the flat at sea level!! Always respect wild animals, nobody has taught them how to behave at camp. Fair winds and happy bytes, Dave Flory *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott said (massive snip): >'nuff said.< On this list...never. :-) Doug Lloyd Victoria BC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ "Whatever can be said at all can be said clearly and whatever cannot be said clearly should not be said at all." Ludwig Wittgenstein ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Having lived on Kodiak Island for two years let me say this: The advice of talking/shouting is a good idea, sometimes it works. I'll have to say in two years I never saw a bear, and I did go out fishing on the rivers a little (and camping). On the gun issue: When I got to Alaska I was like everyone else, I wanted to go buy a semi-auto handgun. Wrong idea for a couple reasons! First and foremost, a 9MM won't even phase a bear, you really need something like a .44 or .357 (although all the young people want a sexy 9MM). The best weapon I was told is a shotgun loaded with shot/slug/slug/shot/???, this will distract the bear with the shot and hopefully break it's shoulder with the slug. Having said that brings me to my other point about any weapon. Imagine you are getting charged by a 1500# Kodiak Brown Bear, are you going to be calm/cool enough to pull your weapon, aim it and actually hit the bear? I don't think I could. I've been told that to drop a bear charging you you either have to hit it between the eyes or take out one of it's shoulders, are you that good of a shot? The best advice I was given is carry bells on your person, shout, talk and use bear spray. If you do get attacked, lay on your stomach with your hands around the back of your head/neck and play dead. I guess eventually the bear will get tired of you and go away. This is from a guy who was attacked while hunting dear and lived to tell about it! Just a few observations from a former Alaskan! Chris *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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