Here's some therapy for those who close their eyes underwater: http://www.outsports.com/columns/cyd/20030609swim.htm http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/problem_detail.asp?PhobiaID=1605&SDID=214 Interestingly, rabies has been referred to as hydrophobia, due to sufferers experiencing a raging thirst in the final stages of the disease ;-) Cheers, PT *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane: As a rule I roll with my eyes open because its easier to properly orientate the paddle blade to the water. I do occasionally practice with my eyes closed for combat situations when I can't see, murky water from sand or red tides, night time or paddling in caves. However, I've generally gone to a pawlata or extended paddle few times I''ve had to do roll in combat situations so and proper orientation wasn't an issue. Dave *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Interesting thread. I don't have a roll yet, so this is somewhat out of context, but I have done a lot of work in a photographic darkroom in low/no light situations as well as suba in varying degrees of visibility. The interesting observation I have made in both situations is that once my eyes begin to struggle - or probably it's my brain struggling to make sense of what my eyes are seeing - I'm better off if I close them and remove that sensory input from the mix. Perhaps it frees up some CPU cycles, or perhaps it somehow puts my brain into a mode where it uses the memory map of the surroundings in place of the current observed data. Whatever the process, if I close my eyes when visibility is very poor, things seem to be easier to accomplish. Hopefully this will be the case with rolling too. Give it a try tonight by taking a group of objects and placing them in front of you on a desk or table. Then in complete darkness, try moving them around with your eyes open and then repeat the process with your eyes closed. It needs to be really dark so you can't see at all. Maybe some people with expertise in the sensory field will have some input. Carey *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That is a similar effect to transitioning between visual flight and instrument flight in an airplane. Struggling to see in low visibility conditions is stressful and subject to disinformation. When flying on instruments, it is generally recommended to keep your eyes away from the outside view. There is not enough there to help you fly, only enough to confuse you. Steve Brown *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Carey Parks" <cparks_at_fuse.net> wrote: >> Interesting thread. I don't have a roll yet, so this is somewhat out of context, but I have done a lot of work in a photographic darkroom in low/no light situations as well as suba in varying degrees of visibility. The interesting observation I have made in both situations is that once my eyes begin to struggle - or probably it's my brain struggling to make sense of what my eyes are seeing - I'm better off if I close them and remove that sensory input from the mix. >> Same here. I think it has to do with competing mechanisms guiding your arms/hands/fingers: visual clues versus proprioception. Here's a link to a definition embodied in a BBC short on how dancers use it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/dancersbody/body/proprioception.shtml Some folks have a better-developed sense of proprioception than others. My admittedly clumsy SO has a poor sense of it; I am the reverse. She, of course, has other talents way in excess of mine ... in other departments. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 17 Oct 2003 at 11:15, Dave Kruger wrote: > Same here. I think it has to do with competing mechanisms guiding > your arms/hands/fingers: visual clues versus proprioception. Here's > a link to a definition embodied in a BBC short on how dancers use it: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/dancersbody/body/proprioception.shtml Interesting article and thanks for adding a word to my vocabulary, Dave! Reading that article reminded me of something that may affect some paddlers when underwater. Astronauts suffer from problems when in weightless conditions - they can't figure out what their bodies are doing! The physical clues provided by gravity, such as where their arm is, are missing. They have to relearn how to do things and spend time working on simple things like coordination. When underwater, we are floating and relatively neutrally bouyant (we barely float - well.. I barely do, some folks who are "padded" do better :-). While gravity is still active, the strength of the signals on body position are probably a little weaker and this may throw off some folks. One thing a lot of paddlers have a problem with is orienting themselves to vertical - you can be at an angle to vertical and not notice it unless you stop moving. This can throw off a roll. I've noticed this in me and others when pfd bouyancy pushes one to the offside when you want an onside roll. I'd guess that the brain is integrating both the info from the balance organs in the ear with the gravity stresses on the body and one's bouyancy throws the latter out of kilter. I guess this is something else to consider when practicing upside- down. The more time you spend at it, the better you can cope with odd signals on body position. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kirby said: >>>Quite frankly, I roll with my eyes open. I want to see what's under there if I go over...Case in point, in a reef or rock garden I would like to see where the rocks are before the hit me not afterward.<<< Oh come on Kirby, we all know the real hazard here off the Victoria waterfront isn't water visibility, it's the sewage outfall. The effluent produces untreated chucks large enough that the thing you really want to do is to keep your mouth shut when you go over. Shutting or not shutting your eyes is optional, though you might want to keep your eyes closed. 'Course, keeping one's mouth shut on Paddlewise can be advantageous to one's health too, at times. As for me, I generally don't need my eyes open to roll, though I have reflective tape on the power face of my paddle blades which assist orientation after a bitchin ride and subsequent wipe-out in the surf zone when the shaft indexing just doesn't cut it on numb hands. Usually, all the orientation I need is the next wave thrust on the upturned hull to provide orientation (an some free lift with a bit of a bracing sweep to seaward. In rock gardens where one is likely to upset (I mean the real stuff, where the water is a mixture of kelp, aerated aquamarine bubbles, dark, foreboding lava-rock formations, big Ling Cod, refracted wave energy, swirling currents, and nervous compulsion, you t'aint gonna see much anyway. Get that fricking Screw-Roll happening pronto, and get head-up and head-safe fast. Can I hear an "Amen brother?" Speaking of surf, I went to see "Step Into Liquid" tonight, to get my wave fix. Great movie, a modern equivalent to the "Endless Summer" movie of yesteryear. Mavericks was way awesome, as was some of the exotic locals and especially the Cortes Bank 100 miles off California - it was simply astounding, as the board surfers rode 66 foot deep blue monsters way out at sea. I rented the DVD, "The Other Side of Heaven" on Monday to get my storm-fix (missionary gets dumped in 40-foot seas, cool eh, AND he still keeps his smug attitude and single-purpose vision). I'm still working on the vision-correction situation for Spring storm paddling when I'm healed up after the New Year (crude, this typing hurts). I bought a pair of $800.00 Silhouette bifocals in titanium. Expensive to loose paddling, but as light as a feather to wear and bombproof. I got the polycarbonate lenses. Trouble is, a skull cap and/or divers hood presses against the titanium earpieces, distorting vision. I also had some safety glasses done up for woodworking, but they scoop up water when rolling and are prone to being pushed off even with a retainer. The Sea Kayaker article on eyewear had a great home-made retainer arrangement illustrated. I might try that. I've also tried surfing without vision correction. It's kind of fun surfing over the locals who I cant see anymore, but they tend to try to kill you back at the beach later. http://www.eye-glasses-now.com/silhouette/silhouette-eyewear-msn.htm?GTSE=PT Doug Lloyd (where "cutbacks" have a more ominous meaning in BC right now) Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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