Some relevance to paddling here, re risk-taking: I was listening to a local radio talk show the other day. Maria Coffey (a BC kayaker, author) was being interviewed about her new award winning book, "Where The Mountain Casts Its Shadow - The Dark Side of Extreme Adventure." It was a short, but thought-provoking interview. Maria lost her partner to the Himalayan mountains a few years ago, and has now given a voice to those wives, children, and parents who were left in the wake of such deaths as those experience by high-altitude climbers. I guess I got rubbed the wrong way when Maria replied to a question about how the death of her partner changed her life: Had anything good come from it (other than the book I assume)? She stated that she lives life more *intently* now. I phoned in right away, reminding Maria that she has undertaken more than a few trips herself, by kayak, and that there are those who would consider such activity as potential risk taking. I also insisted that these men spoken of in her book were simply living life intensely, too (living large as one Paddlewiser says). She didn't ponder the question, but did make a comment on my second point I went on to make, which was the fact that those who undertake high-risk activity, if overtaken by peril, will often be accused of having loved their pastime more than the family they claim to have loved so much. I suggested that risk-takers (those with loved ones) face that tension every time they head out. Maria agreed, and said her book touches all these issues in a balanced, non-judgemental way -- but I'd have to read the book to see for myself. As it turned out, I was the only caller, so won a free copy of Maria's new award-winning book. My wife wants me to read it now. BTW, I've spoken with Maria in times past, via phone, while researching accident articles for Sea Kayaker. She is simply a fantastic individual, so don't misinterpret anything said above. Her, and her new partner's website is: Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I said: >BTW, I've spoken with Maria in times past, via phone, while researching > accident articles for Sea Kayaker. She is simply a fantastic individual, so > don't misinterpret anything said above. Her, and her new partner's website > is: Forgot the link: www.hiddenplaces.net Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think it is fairly common for "adventurers" to view what they do as very controlled, relatively low-risk, and not extreme, while at the same time viewing the adventures those "other-guys" are doing as just plain nuts. Because they have always come back from their adventure alive they feel they know how to minimize the risks. Because they don't know that much about the other sport they fail to see that the other-guy does as good a job at controlling the risks. Participating in a risky sport involves choices. Those choices should be made with an honest evaluation of the risks. As they say in the stock market "prior performance is no guarantee of future success." The mere fact that you have done something before and pulled through unscathed does not mean that you will pull through the next time. We are quick to criticize someone who doesn't wear a PFD when they say they have never needed one. We should also lend a critical eye to those who go paddling when it is blowing 40 knots or make long open-water crossings. Which is more dangerous, paddling on a calm day without a PFD or surfing 20ft waves in full gear? On Dec 9, 2003, at 12:34 AM, Doug Lloyd wrote: > I guess I got rubbed the wrong way when Maria replied to a question > about > how the death of her partner changed her life: Had anything good come > from > it (other than the book I assume)? She stated that she lives life more > *intently* now. I phoned in right away, reminding Maria that she has > undertaken more than a few trips herself, by kayak, and that there are > those > who would consider such activity as potential risk taking. I also > insisted > that these men spoken of in her book were simply living life > intensely, too > (living large as one Paddlewiser says). Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Dec 08, 2003 at 09:34:32PM -0800, Doug Lloyd wrote: > She didn't ponder the question, but did make a comment on my second point I > went on to make, which was the fact that those who undertake high-risk > activity, if overtaken by peril, will often be accused of having loved their > pastime more than the family they claim to have loved so much. I'm not sure I'd call that an "accusation", because IMHO that's judgemental. Maybe they *do* love their pastime more than their family. But if so -- that's their choice. And there's nothing wrong with it, provided all parties are aware of it and satisfied with the situation. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Maybe they *do* love their pastime more than their family. But if so -- that's their choice. And there's nothing wrong with it, provided all parties are aware of it and satisfied with the situation. ---Rsk Is it really so calculated as "I love my passtime more than my family"? I love my family more than paddling but still choose, and love to choose, high risk paddling adventures. My own belief is that my highly developed sense of denial allows me to choose paddling, with all attendant risks, convinced that, this time for sure, it will not result in an obituary that said I loved paddling more than my family. I also subscribe to the definition that says "denial" is a necessary defense against despair. Without denial, I don't think I would ever drive a car - which is far riskier, I think, than paddling. Especially considering the way I drive. Nor would I eat high fat foods, tell my boss she is overweight or any of the other things I do and, somehow, manage to get away with. For now, anyway. Hubris certainly enters into the paddling equation as well. I'm a really good paddler and I won't kill myself. But I have done things that, in hindsight, could easily have killed me. So, my opinion only, I think it is best to tell it the way it is: "I promise you, my dear family, that I will not die on this paddling trip. And if I do actually die, say at my funeral that I was a liar. But don't, please, ever say that I loved paddling more than you." Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nick posted (snip): >>The mere fact that you have done something before and pulled through unscathed does not mean that you will pull through the next time. We are quick to criticize someone who doesn't wear a PFD when they say they have never needed one. We should also lend a critical eye to those who go paddling when it is blowing 40 knots or make long open-water crossings. Which is more dangerous, paddling on a calm day without a PFD or surfing 20ft waves in full gear?<< All kidding aside, who decides which is more dangerous? And is it just a solo paddler out in nasty conditions that are comparatively unsafe, with the team of paddlers out experiencing the same conditions being the safe ones? Is a paddler transiting past the Zuytdorp Cliffs along Western Australia at night (out of necessity due to the long exposure time required) unsafe, especially given weather conditions can change unpredictably before completion of the section even though that isn't technically an open water crossing? Should we lend only our one critical eye, keeping the other one that we use to wink at our own transgressions? Just wandering. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rich posted (condensed): >>I'm not sure I'd call that an "accusation", because IMHO that's judgemental. Maybe they *do* love their pastime more than their family. But if so -- that's their choice. And there's nothing wrong with it, provided all parties are aware of it and satisfied with the situation. Interestingly enough, Maria contends that two partners sharing a life together where one of the partners participates in a high-risk activity indeed, isn't a bad situation if both are satisfied with the situation. She did however, mention *parents and children* of these individuals as having, often, no say in the matter. I for one find cycling to work far more dangerous than storm paddling, or even storm paddling (gales or whatever) at night. Even the guy that heads up the cycling coalition got run over a few weeks ago. Now, when I think back to my youthful days sea kayaking, heading out into bad conditions with little backup gear, little actual in-rough-water rescue experience, and little overall awareness of the supreme consequences - now that was worse than hubris, and it is just plain luck that some of us survive these youthful escapades. I for one will probably give up any more extreme night paddling, though I'd like to stay within some reasonable bounds as you really do develop some interesting instincts and abilities applying yourself to these situations, and it does make you safer as a paddler in case you ever get caught out at night or need to complete a long crossing involving night-time activities -- as the dark side of the dark side does have a good side. And it is interesting how some of these extreme climbers do keep coming back year after year after year after year. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Doug Lloyd > Victoria BC Hey, isn't Victoria BC the home of extreme high tea at the Victoria Empress as well as extreme water taxi ballet. Can't fool me with all that night storm paddling talk! John MacKechnie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John said: >>Hey, isn't Victoria BC the home of extreme high tea at the Victoria Empress as well as extreme water taxi ballet. Can't fool me with all that night storm paddling talk!<< Ah, but wasn't it a "Victorian" novelist who penned those now-famous words: "It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents - except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind..." Or was is Snoopy? Anyway, as quaint as Victoria BC is known to be, it *isn't* one of the last bastions of extreme conservatism anymore, being overrun by spiritualists and alternative lifestyle-seekers. Check out the latest Sea Kayaker essay by local author Barbara Black, entitled "Moby Dick in a Zip-loc," for a sense of where things are here in the paddling center of the universe (another great issue BTW). Things are getting a little out of hand here though; check out this site: http://www.brentcards.net/email/greets21.shtml Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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