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From: Evan Dallas <evand_at_pensionresourcegroup.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] "Local rules" for Canadian VHF channels
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 11:21:13 -0700
>>>>L:From: "Dave Kruger" <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>

Now, for how things really work, based on eight seasons of paddling on
Vancouver Island and in the Charlottes: if you are not near major cities or
areas of intense marine traffic, "local rules" apply. To wit, no one will
ask to see your operator's permit. I don't think the CCG cares much whether
you have the license or not; rather, they appear to be grateful sea kayakers
have and use VHF's: they make their job enormously easier. <<<<

OK, this is perhaps a real bozo question, but if you _don't_ have a Canadian
vhf operator's permit and you need to call the coast guard or whoever else,
how should you identify yourself in lieu of having a call sign?
"Kayaker-in-distress" or some such thing?

Also, do the "local rules" mean you can briefly call someone in your own
party (perhaps they've paddled ahead or are off exploring somewhere) without
too much risk?  If so, would this kind of communication be best on an
"intership" channel or a "working" channel (like 68) or something else?  (I
didn't see any "recreational use" channels listed for Canada.)

Evan Dallas
Woodinville, Washington
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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Local rules" for Canadian VHF channels
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:55:18 -0400
On 17 May 2004 at 11:21, Evan Dallas wrote:

> OK, this is perhaps a real bozo question, but if you _don't_ have a
> Canadian vhf operator's permit and you need to call the coast guard or
> whoever else, how should you identify yourself in lieu of having a
> call sign? "Kayaker-in-distress" or some such thing?

If you take the course, you'd know :-)

You get an ID with a station license.  Since you don't need one, and 
your operator's permit doesn't come with an ID, you just use 
something they can use - most folks will use their boat's name.  You 
want something short and easy to understand.

> (I didn't see any "recreational use" channels listed for Canada.)

That's because marine VHF is not a recreational device in Canada.  If 
you intend to use radio for regular communication between members of 
your party, you'd be better off with FRS - cheap and legal, both US 
and Canadian standards for FRS are the same (not so for GPRS, so if 
you have a dual device, like the Garmin Rino, use only the FRS 
channels).

I'd recommend taking the license in the US.  You'll learn the proper 
protocols, the standards etc.  It only takes a couple of days in 
Canada, so I'd imagine it's similar in the US.  I paid C$40 for the 
course (including the C$25 - IIRC - for the license fee) and that 
won't break the bank.  I don't imagine that the US fees are a lot 
higher.

Mike
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Local rules" for Canadian VHF channels
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:18:09 -0700
Evan Dallas" <evand_at_pensionresourcegroup.com> wrote:

>>OK, this is perhaps a real bozo question, but if you _don't_ have a
Canadian
vhf operator's permit and you need to call the coast guard or whoever else,
how should you identify yourself in lieu of having a call sign?>>

Pick whatever call sign you want:  KayakOne, etc.

>>Also, do the "local rules" mean you can briefly call someone in your own
party (perhaps they've paddled ahead or are off exploring somewhere) without
too much risk?  If so, would this kind of communication be best on an
"intership" channel or a "working" channel (like 68) or something else?  (I
didn't see any "recreational use" channels listed for Canada.)>>

On the "working channel" [6] folks carry on all their significant
on-the-water exchanges.  I heard fishboats using 68 when I was in Barkley
Sound, so I assume it is also OK for kayak-to-kayak transmissions.  Use a
call sign and no one will care you don't have an operator's permit.  BTW, the
US operator's permit is good in Canada for recreational vessels.  If you want
peace of mind, spend the $150 and get one -- good for ten years, IIRC.  But,
no need to to obsess.  No one is coming after you unless you abuse the VHF
channels.

--
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Local rules" for Canadian VHF channels
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:53:29 -0700
Michael Daly" <mikedaly_at_magma.ca> wrote:

>>I'd recommend taking the license in the US.  You'll learn the proper
protocols, the standards etc.  It only takes a couple of days in
Canada, so I'd imagine it's similar in the US.  I paid C$40 for the
course (including the C$25 - IIRC - for the license fee) and that
won't break the bank.  I don't imagine that the US fees are a lot
higher.>>


Michael, there is no course of instruction mandated before applying for a
Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit in the US.  The details are below.
License fees in the US, in similar dollars, are considerably greater (US$50 =
(about) CAN$75).  Lack of mandated instruction or exam, along with very
limited monitoring or enforcement contributes to widespread misuse of marine
VHF channels in the US.  Where I live, the USCG initiates enforcement of
abuse, and only does so for the most egregious offenses.

BTW, I believe I have seen listings of marine channel 68 as "recreational" in
Canada, but can not locate such a listing now.

>From this site:
http://www.marinecomputer.com/articles/licensing/licensing.html

[begin]
  So how do I get a license? What fees are involved?

  There are no tests or inspections required for either the Ship Station
License or the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit. The only
requirement is to complete the necessary FCC forms and submit them along with
proper payment.

  The forms you will need are:

  FCC Form 605 with Schedule B: (formerly Form 506, just to keep things
confusing) is the application for a Ship Station License. At this writing,
the fee for a station license is $120, and the license remains valid for 10
years. Note that licenses do not transfer if the boat is sold or the radio
equipment is moved from one boat to another.

  FCC Form 753: this is the application for a Restricted Radiotelephone
Operator Permit. Every person aboard who will operate the radio equipment
should have their own valid RROP. At this writing the fee is $50, and the
license remains good for life unless suspended/revoked.
  [end]

  -- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Local rules" for Canadian VHF channels
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 16:35:24 -0400
On 18 May 2004 at 19:53, Dave Kruger wrote:

> Michael, there is no course of instruction mandated before applying
> for a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit in the US.

It's optional in Canada and is administered by the Power and Sail 
Squadron.  However, it's easier to pay the extra C$15 and take the 
course than to self-study and then try to get a seat at the 
"official" exam.  The latter is infrequent and crammed with pros, 
while the former is regularly scheduled for (mostly) recreational 
boaters, with a few pros as well.

>  The
> details are below. License fees in the US, in similar dollars, are
> considerably greater (US$50 = (about) CAN$75).

Still cheaper than potential penalties if caught without an ROC in 
Canada.  

>  Lack of mandated instruction or exam, 

Odd - I checked the US Power Squadron's web site, thinking they'd 
pick up the slack - zip.  

> along with very limited monitoring or enforcement
> contributes to widespread misuse of marine VHF channels in the US. 

I can't understand why this happened.  Misguided deregulation, I 
suppose.  Given the value of the system, I don't know why anyone 
would advocate essentially abandoning the thing to the chaos of 
anyone-with-the-money-can-play.  If they try this in Canada, there 
will be a big fight to prevent it - it's the core of Great Lakes 
marine SAR (the ocean areas are less densely populated and served).

Mike
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] "Local rules" for Canadian VHF channels
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 02:27:13 -0700
Evan,

Here is a follow-up to the previous advice I posted on channel usage.

This listing, from the Bellingham (WA) Yacht Club, of Canadian Marine VHF
channels indicates Channels 68 and 69 are designated for "INTERSHIP &
SHIP-SHORE Pleasure vessel" use:

http://www.byc.org/weather_radio/vhfchannels.htm

I believe they would be the appropriate channels for kayakers to use to
coordinate travel, etc.  Note this does not mean they should be used for
"recreation," in the sense of just gabbing.  The idea is that these are for
pleasure boat - to - pleasure boat communication.  I'm not sure this listing
is up to date.  It does not indicate Channel 6 as a common working channel,
which is common usage where I have paddled in BC.

--
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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