Tony Niilus wrote: I don't much care about optimum results. If I wanted a real sailboat I'd get one. A good solution would be something like the Triak with the mast forward of the cockpit, a daggerboard (not leeboard) mounted just aft of the mast, and the outriggers mounted well aft of the cockpit and clear of the paddle stroke. To do this with a folding kayak would take so much work that it wouldn't make any sense. ----------------- There is a Dutch company that makes keels (that fold away for beaching) for Aeriuses of thick plywood with a 40 kgs weight at the end ... You order the skin (must be new) from them and they supply the holes and the attachment things. Looks great, but again, a real sailing boat is better! With a yawl rig the dagger board could be further back ... - just dreaming :-)! Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 8/4/2004 4:30:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, tord_at_tord.nu writes: There is a Dutch company that makes keels (that fold away for beaching) for Aeriuses of thick plywood with a 40 kgs weight at the end . Wouldn't the plural of Aerius be Aerii? That Dutch company, does it have a website? You order the skin (must be new) from them and they supply the holes and the attachment things. Looks great, but again, a real sailing boat is better! I'd like to see pictures of that but I'm way to cheap to pay for a new Klepper skin. With a yawl rig the dagger board could be further back ... - just dreaming Yes. I'd like to try that with the Klepper S4 rig - stick a mizzen in the back of the cockpit. I have seen pictures of ketch or yawl rigged Pouches and Pioniers. Why not a Klepper? Tony Niilus *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
All of this sailing talk has got me thinking. I have heard of rumours of people using a golf umbrella as a downwind sail - spinnaker style. Has anybody ever tried this? It sounds simple and inexpensive. I noticed that West Marine even makes a stainless reinforced umbrella (to be clamped on a boat's stern rail) that may serve... Any thoughts? Cheers Steve Davis Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is strictly a downwind rig - possibly a few degrees either side. On most trips I have a golf umbrella along - a bit of downwind sailing but also handy around camp for an immediate rainfly for unloading packs, wind/rainscreen for cooking or starting a fire, answering the call of nature, etc. Not sure I would bring it along trictly for sailing - unless the route had very predictable downwind stretches but the uses around camp make it worthwhile. I may have mentioned this is another thread but it would seem that an umbrella with alternating red/white or orange/white panels would make a fairly noticeable signaling device when opened and closed. Never tested. When sailing you must handhold it - although you can fabricate rig that holds an umbrella - although in a capsize I'd prefer the umbrella loose. I would strongly suggest the GustBuster brand of umbrellas (www.gustbuster.com). A bit more $ than your basic Wal-Mart special but they are really well made and have blow-out panels in the crown that allow any overloading wind to automatically unload from umbrella preventing damage but not making you 'reset' the umbrella. Your vision is obviously reduced - although I've seen Gustbuster umbrellas with one or two clear panels in them that would help. In a single boat, I've easily run 6-7 mph with the umbrella - not in a crazy strong wind either. FYI, as a comparison, a 6' diameter umbrella provides about 28 sq ft of sail area. One other note - umbrellas DO sink. I've "tested" this with one umbrella....just something to keep in mind!! :o) The usuals - no connection to any product mentioned... K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] Steve, You should attend the Bay Area Paddlefest. One of their fun events is umbrella racing. Several years ago when I was there, my wife one her event. It is a lot of fun and fairly easy to do. Kirby *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This isn't rumours. Check Folbot forum - looks like this place has the highest concentration of connoisseurs of this dangerous yet popular activity :-) : http://www.folbot.com --> users forum --> folbot yacht club, or Search under "umbrella". 6ft diameter (28 sq.ft) might be too large for a monohull sailing of 22-24" wide kayak, except for very light winds. I wouldn't go over 12-15 sq.ft (judging by 32 sq.ft sail that I'm using sometimes with an outrigger). Not sure about such an expensive place as West Marine for that kind of stuff, but golf umrellas about 4 ft wide from Wallmart etc - why not... Guys in AU and NZ have a good grasp of a monohull kayak sailing with Tasmanian and other similar rigs - mostly using them hands-free, cleating the lline on the deck and using paddle at the same time, to brace or to go faster or closer to the wind. Without an outrigger it can be an auxiliary device only, but with an outrigger it will not be a kayak any more ;-)... Check also Watertribe magazine - Steve Isaak writes there about his experience with "Spirit" hands-free 8.5 sq.ft sail (I think, in the article "Class1 sail rig". > All of this sailing talk has got me thinking. I have heard of rumours of people using a golf umbrella as a downwind sail - spinnaker style. Has anybody ever tried this? It sounds simple and inexpensive. I noticed that West Marine even makes a stainless reinforced umbrella (to be clamped on a boat's stern rail) that may serve... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There's a photo of some umbrella sail racers and a short article at http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issues/2003_1/article_210.shtml. The article hints that umbrellas with a clear panel or two offer advantages, and Keith's suggestion of a baffled umbrella sounds smart, as well. A Nigel Foster Silhouette won the race. If a Paddlewiser gets into umbrella racing big time and wants an orange and white sail, I'd be happy to look around Knoxville for them. There's a lot of orange and white here, especially with fall football coming on. Margot Pantalone -- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well , what i have is more a question than a thought . Where I live one does not have to register their boat as long as it is propelled by paddle , oar , or any manual mode . But - add a sail and you have to register the boat . Something I prefer to avoid , if possible . Assuming some other areas may have similar rules - have you found you get a pass using an umbrella as a sail or do you get the thicket and some stern talk about the virtues of obeying the law ? David At 09:46 8/5/04 -0700, Steve Davis wrote: >... I have heard of rumours of people using a golf umbrella as a downwind sail - ..It sounds simple and inexpensive.... Any thoughts? > >Cheers > >Steve Davis > >Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
AARRRRGGGGG!!! Send in the LAYERS!!! <G> David Walker wrote: >Well , > >what i have is more a question than a thought . Where I live one does not >have to register their boat as long as it is propelled by paddle , oar , or > any manual mode . But - add a sail and you have to register the boat . >Something I prefer to avoid , if possible . Assuming some other areas may >have similar rules - have you found you get a pass using an umbrella as a >sail or do you get the thicket and some stern talk about the virtues of >obeying the law ? > > >David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"No officer, I was just protecting myself from the sun with this here pretty parasol" "Gee, it looked like rain at the put-in, figured one can never be too careful..." K *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] I can't imagine that the authorities would seriously consider that a brolly makes a kayak a sailing craft. We don't have to licence our kayaks here, unless you are running a motor greater than 9.9 HP or you exceed a certain tonnage - Doug should be getting close soon. I'm not out to create a sailboat, I already have one of those. I remember coming into Fair Harbour last year with 20 knots of wind at my back and having to work to catch a couple in a double who had quite cunningly erected their tent fly in the form of a spinnaker. The guy in the back was relaxing drinking a beer. I thought at the time that I was missing out on something. With out going to the effort and modification of installing a homemade or aftermarket sailrig I think that the brolly is the way to go. I just have to figure a way to fly it and still paddle (I'm rudderless). Perhaps it's as simple a sliding the hook under the bungies? Steve - off to practice umbrella rolls Victoria BC David Walker <scb01447_at_mail.wvnet.edu> wrote: Well , what i have is more a question than a thought . Where I live one does not have to register their boat as long as it is propelled by paddle , oar , or any manual mode . But - add a sail and you have to register the boat . Something I prefer to avoid , if possible . Assuming some other areas may have similar rules - have you found you get a pass using an umbrella as a sail or do you get the thicket and some stern talk about the virtues of obeying the law ? David At 09:46 8/5/04 -0700, Steve Davis wrote: >... I have heard of rumours of people using a golf umbrella as a downwind sail - ..It sounds simple and inexpensive.... Any thoughts? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I'm not out to create a sailboat, I already have one of those. I remember coming into Fair Harbour last year with 20 knots of wind at my back and having to work to catch a couple in a double who had quite cunningly erected their tent fly in the form of a spinnaker. The guy in the back was relaxing drinking a beer. I thought at the time that I was missing out on something. Where you could really beat them, is upwind tacking. But again, they could paddle straight and beat you anyway :-)... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've used a beach umbrella that I picked up on sale at Sharper Image. It's fairly large and has the double layer design that allows for some wind to pass through during gusts. I attached a ball to it with some line to provide bouyancy in case I ever need to jettison it in a hurry. California is one of the states where kayak registration is not required as long as it's only human-powered. But I haven't been too concerned about possible enforcement. I've used the umbrella in Oakland harbor where I'm sure it was spotted by a few patrol boats but so far have not gotten any unwanted attention. Picture of an outing in Carquinez Strait (off San Francisco Bay): http://206.40.48.186/uploads/UMBRELLA2.JPG *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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