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From: Jan Axelson <jan_at_Lvr.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Sweden and Norway
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:10:25 -0600
>We have a wonderful, at times very craggy, coastline, with next to nil
>tides! A bit like Maine, minus the tides :-)!
>
>We also have lots of lakes to paddle, and there are very few regulations
>about where you can paddle, or camp.

The spouse and I are hoping to visit Sweden and Norway next summer and do 
some paddling.

We have folding yaks (including a Klepper with Balogh sail) but haven't 
decided whether to bring them.

I'd love to hear suggestions of where to paddle, places to rent from, and 
best time to come. We're mostly flat-water paddlers (Wisconsin and 
Minnesota lakes) but have some ocean experience.

Sweden's allemansratten (right of public access) is the greatest!

We also hope to hike some of the Kungsleden trail.

Jan  
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From: Steve Cramer <cramersec_at_charter.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sweden and Norway
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 11:46:10 -0500
We did a trip with Crossing Latitudes in the Lofoten archipelago a few 
years ago. Very well organized outfitter, great guides, fabulous food. 
Lofoten is pretty far north, but they do other trips as well.

Some pics here: http://www.savvypaddler.com/lofoten.html

Steve

Jan Axelson wrote:
> 
> The spouse and I are hoping to visit Sweden and Norway next summer and 
> do some paddling.
> 
> We have folding yaks (including a Klepper with Balogh sail) but haven't 
> decided whether to bring them.
> 
> I'd love to hear suggestions of where to paddle, places to rent from, 
> and best time to come. We're mostly flat-water paddlers (Wisconsin and 
> Minnesota lakes) but have some ocean experience.
> 
> Sweden's allemansratten (right of public access) is the greatest!
> 
> We also hope to hike some of the Kungsleden trail.


-- 
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA
http://www.savvypaddler.com
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From: Joan Volin <jvolin_at_optonline.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sweden and Norway
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:45:30 -0500
We paddled with them,also a few years ago (quite a few years ago, now 
that I think of it), in the Skaggerak (pardon spelling and lack of 
accent marks) - between Sweden and Norway.  We stayed at a place called 
Gulhollmen (same pardon required). They were fun to paddle with, were 
able to accommodate various levels of paddlers - and great cooks.  I 
strongly recommend them

Joan

Steve Cramer wrote:

> We did a trip with Crossing Latitudes in the Lofoten archipelago a few 
> years ago. Very well organized outfitter, great guides, fabulous food. 
> Lofoten is pretty far north, but they do other trips as well.
>
> Some pics here: http://www.savvypaddler.com/lofoten.html
>
> Steve
>
> Jan Axelson wrote:
>
>>
>> The spouse and I are hoping to visit Sweden and Norway next summer 
>> and do some paddling.
>>
>> We have folding yaks (including a Klepper with Balogh sail) but 
>> haven't decided whether to bring them.
>>
>> I'd love to hear suggestions of where to paddle, places to rent from, 
>> and best time to come. We're mostly flat-water paddlers (Wisconsin 
>> and Minnesota lakes) but have some ocean experience.
>>
>> Sweden's allemansratten (right of public access) is the greatest!
>>
>> We also hope to hike some of the Kungsleden trail.
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From: <hchristiansen3_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sweden and Norway
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:59:06 +0000
ditto on the Crossing Latitudes endorsement.
http://www.crossinglatitudes.com/

.Hal
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Steve Cramer <cramersec_at_charter.net> 

> We did a trip with Crossing Latitudes in the Lofoten archipelago a few 
> years ago. Very well organized outfitter, great guides, fabulous food. 
> Lofoten is pretty far north, but they do other trips as well. 
> 
> Some pics here: http://www.savvypaddler.com/lofoten.html 
> 
> Steve 
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From: Jens Viggo Moesmand <jensviggo_at_moesmand.dk>
subject: [Paddlewise] SV: Sweden and Norway
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:18:41 +0100
"I'd love to hear suggestions of where to paddle, places to rent from, and 
best time to come. We're mostly flat-water paddlers (Wisconsin and 
Minnesota lakes) but have some ocean experience.

Sweden's allemansratten (right of public access) is the greatest!"

You are absolutely right about the swedish "skaergaard".

We visit the swedish archipelago between Vdstervik and Oskarshamn called "Misterhult naturreservat" every year. This is south of Stockholm.

Have a look at 

http://www.havkajakstevns.dk/stevns/turinformation/Loggen/Klintemaala_2003/default.htm 

where you can find suggestions.

Good luck. Feel free to write me if you decide to come. I have suggestions for at trip to "Telemarks kanalen" in the southern part of Norway too. Not to mention possibilities around Denmark.

Jens Viggo Moesmand
Denmark
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From: Jan Axelson <jan_at_Lvr.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Sweden and Norway
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 21:06:25 -0600
 >We visit the swedish archipelago between Vdstervik and Oskarshamn called 
"Misterhult naturreservat" every year. This is south of Stockholm.

It looks fabulous. Definitely one to consider. Would love to take a side 
trip to Denmark as well!

Thanks also to those who recommended Crossing Latitudes.

Jan 
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From: Shin SUGIYAMA <ssugiya_at_bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp>
subject: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:52:30 +0900
Hi, I live in Japan and really enjoy subscribing to this list.
I just started paddling a couple of months ago and  am beginning
  to feel lower back pains every time I go out.
At first I thought it was from carrying and putting together my kayak
but now realize its probably from the actual paddling on lakes for a 
few hours each time.
I have  a second-hand Feathercraft  Short Touring that came with a 
Nimbus Charlotte paddle.
The paddle is wooden, and I believe it's designed for day trips or short-tours.
I have decided not to try to plant the paddle as far forward as 
possible  in my stroke,  but in addition to that, I am considering 
getting a paddle that would be more forgiving on my back. Any 
recommendations concerning specific models or information about 
certain characteristics such as flex or blade shape or materials 
types  that might help would be appreciated because I am pretty much 
on my own in my new interest. Although I don't have any plans for 
extended touring would it be correct to assume getting a 
long-touring paddle would solve my back pain? Thanks in advance.
Shin Sugiyama / Nagoya, Japan

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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 03:37:03 -0500
Hi and welcome to the wonderful world of paddling. My son had a bout of
lower back pain that turned out to be his shirt or sweater that was forming
a pinch-point between his back and the seat back (which we also call a
"backband"). Once he pulled that offending article of clothing up and out of
the way his back pain went away.

When I paddle my wife's kayak I get lower back pain that is, I suspect,
something to do with the adjustment of the backband. I solved the problem by
not paddling my wife's kayak any more. I know that if I mess with the way
the backband is set up I'm in real trouble.

Every kayak has to be fitted to you and lots of us have foam pieces laying
around (in my case, literally) for gluing into place in strategic spots to
keep us comfy in the cockpit.

So... my tip is not to concentrate too much on the paddle itself but rather
in your posture in the kayak and in the way you fit against the backband.
And also a tip not to paddle with your legs flat but rather raise them a
bit.

If you determine that your fit in the cockpit is as good as you can get it
and still have back pains then look at your paddle stroke. Visit the web
site at www.marinerkayaks.com and look at their tips for paddling technique.

One good way to determine what paddle fits you best is to get a few friends
together and just swap paddles for a while. If you are in a club you will
find that many kayakers have a closetfull of paddles of various sizes,
shapes and weights. We have paddlefests where we just bring all our paddles
- white water or flat water or anything in-betwen - and lay them on the
dock. Then we can just go out and try one and then go back and grab another
without getting out of the cockpit even.

Good luck!

Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA

On 11/21/06, Shin SUGIYAMA <ssugiya_at_bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp> wrote:
>
> Hi, I live in Japan and really enjoy subscribing to this list.
> I just started paddling a couple of months ago and  am beginning
>   to feel lower back pains every time I go out.
> At first I thought it was from carrying and putting together my kayak
> but now realize its probably from the actual paddling on lakes for a
> few hours each time.
> I have  a second-hand Feathercraft  Short Touring that came with a
> Nimbus Charlotte paddle.
> The paddle is wooden, and I believe it's designed for day trips or
> short-tours.
> I have decided not to try to plant the paddle as far forward as
> possible  in my stroke,  but in addition to that, I am considering
> getting a paddle that would be more forgiving on my back. Any
> recommendations concerning specific models or information about
> certain characteristics such as flex or blade shape or materials
> types  that might help would be appreciated because I am pretty much
> on my own in my new interest. Although I don't have any plans for
> extended touring would it be correct to assume getting a
> long-touring paddle would solve my back pain? Thanks in advance.
> Shin Sugiyama / Nagoya, Japan
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From: Shin SUGIYAMA <ssugiya_at_bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 18:53:57 +0900
Craig, thanks for the welcome.
  I guess my biggest problem is that there is nobody around me who is 
experienced, hence I am asking for advice here. I live in a city of 2 
million and as far as I know there are only 3 places that sell kayaks 
of which only one specializes in them, the other two being Montbell 
shops that manufactures and sells all sorts of outdoor wear and gear. 
I haven't been able to find any clubs in my area besides the one for 
customers of the single shop. It seems that here in Japan,  paddling 
was at it peak in popularity about ten years ago and there were many 
more shops at that time judging from advertisements in old issues of 
"Canoe Life" magazine.
It would be great to attend a paddlefest but I guess that won't be 
happening in the  near future, unfortunately. My paddling buddy who 
just got a secondhand Nautiraid Greenlander is using a paddle that 
came with a recreational inflatable raft.
  I hadn't realized that seat-back adjustment was so important. The 
way I have it set up now, I lean back on to it when I am paddling in 
a relaxed manner enjoying the landscape etc. and sit upright without 
using it to paddle seriously. Should I set it so my back is  against 
it when I sit upright also? I do have my legs bent quite a bit so I 
can use them to paddle.
  I have the text on paddling technique from  www.marinerkayaks.com 
printed out and have been reading it over several times on the bus 
while commuting. I even had it in my pocket while paddling although I 
didn't actually take it out and read it.
  I am eager to get on the water and try your tips, but my daughter's 
daycare center is moving into a new building this weekend and being 
low on funding we parents will be moving most of the stuff. Well, I 
probably will have fun doing that with the kids running around anyway.
Thanks again, Shin

I have a blog in Japanese at the URL below with a few pictures of the 
places I go.
http://ssugiya.cocolog-nifty.com/blog


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From: Michael Daly <mikedaly_at_magma.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 22:47:23 -0500
Shin SUGIYAMA wrote:

>  I hadn't realized that seat-back adjustment was so important. The way I 
> have it set up now, I lean back on to it when I am paddling in a relaxed 
> manner enjoying the landscape etc. and sit upright without using it to 
> paddle seriously. Should I set it so my back is  against it when I sit 
> upright also? I do have my legs bent quite a bit so I can use them to 
> paddle.

You should avoid leaning back at all times.  It will inhibit good paddling style 
and reduces the control you have on the kayak.  It is better to keep your back 
straight and lean forward just a bit so your shoulders are just ahead of your 
hips.  You can adjust the seat back to support your lower back in the forward 
position.  If the seat back is high, consider a lower position (if adjustable) 
or try replacing it with a backband that is low.

Back problems can be helped by keeping your stomach muscles strong.  If your 
stomach muscles are firm, they support you and reduce the stress on your spine 
and back muscles.  Doing situps is a good exercise for this.

Mike
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From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:16:44 +1100
Shin wrote: -
>I hadn't realized that seat-back adjustment was so important. The
>way I have it set up now, I lean back on to it when I am paddling in
>a relaxed manner enjoying the landscape etc. and sit upright without
>using it to paddle seriously. Should I set it so my back is  against
>it when I sit upright also? I do have my legs bent quite a bit so I
>can use them to paddle.

G'Day Shin,

There are many different styles of paddling so the comments that follow are
just one opinion.

Matt makes the comment in his paddling manual that you "sit comfortably
erect with a slight forward lean". This is the style our club adopts when
paddling seriously. If you do this your back would normally not be leaning
against the back rest otherwise the torso rotation that goes with an
efficient and powerful stroke would rub your back raw over time.

Regarding paddle style we've adopted a flatwater vertical 'racing' stroke
but recognise that at sea it is only a basic stroke and will be varied
enormously and just about all the "rules" broken on occasion to take
advantage of sea conditions. But this is only one of many styles that work.
It is a very efficient style, particularly for people with strong abs and
low upper body strength.

One point worth considering is the need to get a paddle that has the right
length and feather angle. If you can borrow a split paddle or one with a
smart shaft (ie one that can have its length and feather angle adjusted) you
could use it to find the length and feather that suit you best. For my style
of paddling I set the length of the paddle so that the blade becomes fully
submerged at the side of my kayak where the feet are located. The feather
angle is a matter for discussion and depends on whether one is paddling into
strong winds. I have recently started setting mine so the blade is at right
angles to the the center axis of the boat but haven't used this angle yet to
paddle into winds greater than 15 knots.

(Matt, if you get to read this, I'm in the process of setting up a set of
paddles and would be very interested in figures for feather angle vs wind
strength at which the paddle starts to become uncontrollable?)

The point is not so much to give a cut and dried method for setting up the
paddle just the importance of finding out what length and feather suit you
before making a purchase.

All the best, PeterO
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From: Shin SUGIYAMA <ssugiya_at_bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:08:15 +0900
Hi Everyone,
thanks for a lot of helpful input both here and off list, and please 
forgive my late response.
Almost everyone suggested that I shouldn't lean back and that I need 
to work on my stomach muscles. I have started doing situps before 
going to bed and some leg lifts
in my office when no one is looking. I have decided to work on 
correct posture as well as foot brace and seat back positioning 
before looking into a new paddle. I am just beginning to realize that 
I  have a lot to work on. I am a avid biker and commute half of the 
week on a road bike which feels very comfortable to me now, but when 
I think back (more than 20 years) , I realize this only became to be 
so after a lot of adjustments,  a few months time, and after certain 
muscles were built up. I guess I have quite a lot to look forward to!
Thanks again!  I'll report after I get back from a few hours paddling 
on Sunday.
Shin




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From: James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:41:25 -0600
Shin said - 
Almost everyone suggested that I shouldn't lean back and that I need to
work on my stomach muscles. I have started doing situps before going to
bed and some leg lifts in my office when no one is looking. I have
decided to work on 
correct posture as well as foot brace and seat back positioning before
looking into a new paddle.



You might consider also strengthening your abdominal muscles using these
techniques.

[I have been paddling for forty years, mostly slalom racing, and have
learned that keeping my abs strong makes a big difference in what
happens with my back.  Also, I have almost no muscles in my left leg.  I
had polio as an infant.  When I walk, I have to lift my left leg using
my hip and lower back muscles.  Doctors have told me, all my life, to
expect to have back pain.  I believe the reason I do not is my strong
abs and the fact that I paddle a lot.

Two ways I keep abs strong:  end every paddling session with about three
to five minutes of paddling quickly BACKWARDS.  This is also very good
for the shoulder muscles.  

Second is isometrics - standing straight, tighten all your abs by
attempting to force your trunk forward as if you were bowing in greeting
to someone but resist the movement with your back muscles so that you
are fighting all movement and not moving at all.  After a little
practice with this, you will learn to target specific muscles groups.  I
do these isometrics every time I am waiting for an elevator or waiting
for a stoplight to change.  This puts in about a dozen short "workouts"
into my work day.  

Good luck!

Jim Tibensky
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From: Jim Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:57:46 -0500
>[I have been paddling for forty years, mostly slalom racing, and have
>learned that keeping my abs strong makes a big difference in what
>happens with my back. 
>
My physical therapist gave me the same advice.  Your abs help support 
your back. Weak abs contribute to a weak back.

Jim et al
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From: Shin SUGIYAMA <ssugiya_at_bio.nagoya-u.ac.jp>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Paddle choice and lower back pain
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 21:04:39 +0900
Hi, I got in several hours of paddling on Sunday and here is my 
progress report on correcting lower back pain. I was planning to 
concentrate on correct posture, proper seat and footbrace adjustment, 
as well as building stomach muscle strength, instead of getting  a 
new lighter paddle. So I had a set of  little goals to accomplish 
yesterday, but as it turned out, everything fit in place just by 
adjusting the seat back on my Feathercraft  ST.  The seat back is a 
padded plate that is fixed by straps at the top  whereas the bottom 
of the seat back is connected to a seat plate that is fixed in front 
by straps stretching forward. I had been putting tension on those 
forward straps so as a result the seat back was always angled 
backwards. Yesterday, I slackened  the forward straps so that the 
seat back was pretty much upright when I was seated. This changed 
everything. Besides not allowing me to lean back, it also gave me 
lower back support when I had my torso leaned forward. Before, when I 
leaned forward I  really only had my stomach muscles to support me 
and that tired me out pretty fast.  One recognizable difference was 
that I could really push on my upper non-stroke side arm.  I found I 
could paddle much longer and harder without discomfort to my lower 
back. It was really enjoyable!  It has become  cold here on the 
Pacific side of Japan and yesterday we had a clear breezy day with 
air temperatures between 5-10 degrees C. It was the first time I had 
paddled against a moderate wind strong enough to snatch at my paddle 
and wash waves over my bow but I was able to keep paddling strongly 
for a kilometer or so and had fun. I know there is probably still a 
lot wrong with my paddling form but being relieved of back pain is 
really encouraging!
  Thanks to everyone for your advice and help. The solution was so 
simple and obvious in retrospect that its a little embarrassing, but 
I am glad I asked for help.  Thanks again!
Shin / Nagoya Japan


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