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From: Michael Stoccardo <mstoccardo_at_hotmail.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 19:50:37 +0000
Howdy,

After years of putting off a GPS purchase, I've decided to hop into the 21st 
century.  It appears the the newly redone 76CSX and 60SCX are using the new 
SIRF chipset and perform equally well. I will be using it for both paddling 
and hiking. Given the curent rebate on the 60, they cost about the same.

The 60CXS smaller and so seems more "hand friendly", but sinks, but will be 
in a dry bag that will float....
The 76CXS is a bigger (floats) so feels clunky, but evdently has boater 
oriented features. Are they useful to kayakers or just powerboaters?

Any feedback would be helpful.

Thanks,

Mike
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 07:11:33 -0800
Michael Stoccardo wrote:

> The 60CXS smaller and so seems more "hand friendly", but sinks, but will
>  be in a dry bag that will float.... The 76CXS is a bigger (floats) so
> feels clunky, but evidently has boater oriented features. Are they useful
> to kayakers or just powerboaters?

Mike, I have used a Map60C for three seasons, and love it.  However, I 
carved a rectanguloidal minicell "float" to which it is lanyarded and 
Velcroed to solve two problems:

1. Its negative buoyancy.
2. Its "potato" shape, which is particularly unhandy for deck-top use; 
before the pad, I was always resetting the 60C flat so I could see the screen.

The minicell pad is recessed to accept the unit, has hook Velcro on its 
back to give some friction across a neoprene sprayskirt surface, and the 
lanyard runs from the unit, through a reinforced port in the pad, to a deck 
eye.  I also painted the pad bright red with some of that rubberized 
toolgrip stuff, so if the lanyard comes loose from the kayak, I'll at least 
have a _visible_ floater to chase.

I chose it over the 76C for its smaller shape, in the event I were to use 
it hiking.  Turns out I have not done that much.

BTW, having a clear plastic layer between your eyes and the screen 
diminishes the clarity -- the plastic picks up glare.

If you want some photos, email me back channel.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Bud Turner <sbturner_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 09:43:40 -0600
I would like to know, which has the maps on individual memory cards and
which has the fixed memory card that you change maps by computer.  Also does
anyone have a preference between the 2 and why.  Thanks!  

Regards,
 
 
S.B. (Bud) Turner
Chief Operations Officer
Bearden Development
See our fine properties at: www.beardendevelopment.com  
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:21:46 -0800
> I would like to know, which has the maps on individual memory cards and
> which has the fixed memory card that you change maps by computer.  Also
does
> anyone have a preference between the 2 and why.

Both these X-models have a fixed memory card (unlike non-X models). This
means that you do NOT need a computer to change the map.

My preference would've been X, if I were to paddle through the forest -
which usually doesn't happen to a sea kayaker, or crossing, say, all the
stretch of the northwest Bluechart Canada section in one long multiday
expedition (from the south-east end of the Puget Sound to the north-west of
Queen Charlotte archipelago) - but I've heard of only few people that've
managed that.  This is more than a thousand kilometers.

This difference between X and non-X becomes rather an academic now, as non-X
models (60cs and 76cs) have been discontinued and very few stores carry
them. And the price of X-model is now about the same as the price of non-X a
few years ago, - though I would rather prefer Garmin to pass this chunk of
RD money directly to me, a consumer - lowering the price further :-) ...
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From: Will Jennings <will_at_bigwoodenradio.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:13:51 -0600
One advantage of the chip switch is that maps with topo, city street  
guides, and blue charts
do not excel at the same details...though there is some overlap.  It  
is sometimes helpful to have both
blue chart and topo maps for the same coastal regions so that certain  
landmarks and elevations,
as well as access roads, are more clearly marked.  It's also nice to  
have your charts heavily annotated with
various waypoints....safe surf zone landing sites, bail-out landing  
spots & our bivvy spots if winds kick up,
'go to' way points you can pre-load and seek via the 'go to' function  
if you're in a crush, dense fog, or
don't have the ability to use charts for spontaneous re-routing while  
in difficult conditions.

I use my 76 in my vehicle, it mounts nicely and is helpful when  
comparing it's map/locating and routing
abilities with the paper gazetteer & road/topo maps I'm also using.

My three cents.
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From: PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_iprimus.com.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:04:34 +1100
Will wrote
>One advantage of the chip switch is that maps
>with topo, city street guides, and blue charts
>do not excel at the same details

G'Day Will and Paddlewise,

Does this mean that it's possible to buy chips with charts that have some
coastal topographical detail? I'm used to Australian Navy paper charts which
include this data, but its ommitted from the BlueChart Pacific range for
Australia. The convenience of planning with an electronic format is
attractive but impractical without coastal topography, unless one is relying
on GPS alone, which is something I wont do. Without topographical detail
setting up visual bearings becomes much more difficult. It would be very
convenient to have an electronic resource with both chart and some topo data
for planning, visual navigation and GPS navigation.

Another question relates to the water proof quality of the Garmin range. As
others have said trying to read a GPS through a waterproof bag is difficult
in strong sunlight and Dave's references to the 76CSX and 60CSX being
susceptible to water damage via the battery container is worrying. On a long
crossing, say 6 to 10 hours with waves breaking continually over the deck, I
would expect the GPS to be thoroughly, continually and violently soaked.

Would the susceptibility to leakage in the battery compartment of the 60CSX
& 76CSX make them unreliable without a waterproof bag/case on such journeys.
As the map facility and the improved sensitivity that goes with the X suffix
may not be useful for long crossings can anyone recommend a more robust
perhaps simpler unit, or a waterproof case that allows the unit to be read
in strong sunlight.

All the best, PeterO
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:32:42 -0800
>> Would the susceptibility to leakage in the battery compartment of the
60CSX
> & 76CSX make them unreliable without a waterproof bag/case on such
journeys.
> As the map facility and the improved sensitivity that goes with the X
suffix
> may not be useful for long crossings can anyone recommend a more robust
> perhaps simpler unit, or a waterproof case that allows the unit to be read
> in strong sunlight.

My understanding has been that non-X series of 60 and 76 was this kind of a
robust unit, - at least, more robust than X-series, as it doesn't have a
memory card slot.  I don't have yet experience with neither of these, so
can't tell for sure.

As to the waterproof case - there are some, but even if there is no glare,
it is still not too good. The very layer of clear plastic, even the best
one, and even brand new that is not scratched yet, obstructs the readings
bad enough in low-light conditions, absorbing and diffusing precious light.
After a while, it is no longer brand new, and becomes scratched and TAD
milky, and obstructs the readings even in good conditions. The display
screen is made of a harder and slower-aging plastic, as I understand, and
maintains its transparency longer.
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From: mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] was Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX, now: best pitch for owning a GPS
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:32:06 -0500 (EST)
Alex wrote:
>....
> My preference would've been X, if I were to paddle through the forest -
> which usually doesn't happen to a sea kayaker, or crossing, say, all the
> stretch of the northwest Bluechart Canada section in one long multiday
> expedition (from the south-east end of the Puget Sound to the north-west
> of
> Queen Charlotte archipelago) - but I've heard of only few people that've
> managed that.  This is more than a thousand kilometers.
>

Not to be thumping my chest too much here but I've done the inside and
outside passage between B'ham and Lituya bay or north end Glacier bay. I
may have the good fortune to do the same or similar trip this summer. I
think more than a few people do similar trips each year.

I don't own a GPS. The main advantage in owning one might be in saving the
hassle of hauling around a pile of nautical charts. But I really don't
like looking at say Topozone maps on the computer scene. I just can't get
the big picture very well. I suspect the small screen of a GPS would be
even worse. I'm trying to decide if a GPS is in my future. The hassle with
batteries on long trips and a fragile gadget on deck are pretty big
disadvantages for me to get my head around. But, maybe others out there
can give me their best sales pitch on why I should own one?
Thanks in advance,
mike
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From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] was Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX, now: best pitch for owning a GPS
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 02:13:14 -0500
On 12/29/06, mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu> wrote:
>
> But, maybe others out there
> can give me their best sales pitch on why I should own one?
>


Well... there must be a reason. I'm trying hard to think of it. I have a
motley collection of the damn things that I've used for boating, for soaring
(gliders) and - believe it or not - for work. But I do agree that they can
be a pain in the butt to handle on a kayak.

My Garmin GPS72 has a "tracking" ability that mostly just shows your track
(zigs and zags in a dotted line) but also includes a rudimentary database
with nav aids. It's waterproof and includes tide tables but I'm not sure
they extend as far north as you may be traveling. The tide tables are really
what sold me on getting another GPS; that and the fact that Garmin claims
the thing is mostly-waterproof. So far it has ridden well over 100miles on
my kayak with no indication that it's bothered by water in the slightest.

Because a GPS doesn't have to be turned on all the time to give you a
position (you can just turn it on, get a position and then turn it off
again) you don't necessarily have to worry about batteries. And, anyway, if
you have a headlamp you're carrying batteries anyway. Plus they're small and
relatively light. So I don't consider that a hassle unless I need a position
and the batteries are dead.

Most units - including the GPS72 - can be pre-programmed for a track and
safe-havens plugged in as waypoints so if you are overtaken by bad weather
and visibility and need a place to hide they can be a help. Although I don't
think I'd ever do that. I prefer charts but a GPS works well in conjunction
with charts.

But I think that on a long expedition for an experienced paddler (or
mariner) who really doesn't need the extra navigation aid most of the time,
the main reason I'd spend the $150 again is that one quick fix when you need
it.


Craig Jungers
Royal City, WA
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best pitch for owning a GPS ( was Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 03:21:17 -0800
mike dziobak <mdziobak_at_mtu.edu> wrote:

>> But, maybe others out there can give me their best sales pitch on why
>> I should own one?

Mike, I resisted using a GPS, past any left-brain reasonableness, until I
was given a bottom of the line eTrex.  It sat on the deck of my boat, and 
did its thing.  Sometimes I looked at it to find out what my speed made 
good was.  I have a charting program that allows uploading and downloading 
waypoints, so I did some of that.  My home paddling area (lower Columbia 
River) has highly variable currents, not susceptible to good prediction, so 
I started using it on crossings to hold a course. Worked some places where 
I did not have decent ranges.

I also used it to track paddle routes and plot them up later, allowing me
to find out how far (and where) I _really_ went.  However, it was not
really serving some highly useful purpose.  It was more of a toy.

Then, because a buddy bought one for use while hunting, and the display was
a million times more useful that the eTrex, I got a Map60C, and a set of
BlueCharts for my area.  Played with it, and found that, even on waters I
know very well, the thing was really handy to have on deck.  By positioning
it where my close-focus bifocal lenses could pick it out, I was able to
anticipate locations of features, particularly navaids, well ahead of time,
and locate them in the distance in vague viewing conditions, for better
navigation across currents, and for an easier time picking out the 
locations of vague, small channel entrances.

No, you do not get a "big picture" of your overall area.  And, no, you can
_not_ dispense with charts, for that purpose, and for redundancy.

Then, I began taking it to Barkley Sound and Clayoquot Sound, both on
waters I have paddled frequently (Brokens, Deers), and on new waters
(Clayoquot).  Waypointing potential campsites, and points of entry to bays
and channels, for use in poor visibility was useful, somewhat.

But, the most useful aspect is ... anticipating and avoiding boomers,
boomers, boomers.  Several times, outside in the Brokens, and likewise,
several locations outside Vargas Island, I passed through areas studded
with boomers, glancing now and then at the screen, where I could see the
location of subsurface rocks, well in advance, and tell whether my true
course was taking me near one.  And, it would give me guidance on where to
look to pick up that subtle change in swell which occurs over a boomer,
when swell is not quite big enough to make one go off, so I could avoid the
sucker and/or keep an eye on it.

It is better than a set of eyes for this;  it is  better than a _second_ 
set of eyes in another boat.  It allowed me to paddle some passages
I would have avoided before, or perhaps tackled very tentatively.  Mind,
someday my reliance on it will bite me in the ass:  I have found a few
rocks in the Brokens, particularly off Gibraltor, which are mischarted by a
hundred feet or more ... but even there the unit alerted me there was a
rock _somewhere_ in the vicinity, and my old neck was swiveling like an
ostrich's to find it.  And, find it I did, before it boomed me.  One of
those babies boomed under my buddy Greg, back in 1999, tossed him upside
down and out of the boat.  He never even knew it was there -- no swell
signal ahead of time.  Luckily, he had two female companions who whipped
him back in the boat and had him pumped out in minutes, or he would have
missed out on the burritos I was making, back in camp.

I'd guess this use of a GPS might be an important one, in new areas.

But, you still need the charts.  For sure.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: <kayakwriter_at_aim.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] best pitch for owning a GPS
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 15:33:38 -0500
My primary GPS is a decade-old Garmin 12, that's pre-WASS, and doesn't have built-in maps. I most helpful on long crossings, where it lets you paddle the optimum course with drift allowed for in real time. (Of course, if you know there's going to be a major tidal stream building up during your crossing, you may want to proactively aim off to port or starboard of your intended waypoint.)
The GPS is also great for sailing, where the difference between your heading and your course can be significant - even a few degrees can add up over many nautical miles. With the GPS, if you've got the destination waypoint, you can sail directly there, wind speed and direction permitting. Plus the GPS gives you bragging rights: "I was making 5.3 knots - my GPS said so."
Ironically, my back-up GPS, a Geko, has WASS, so it's more accurate. But the screen is smaller and "squintier," so it'll ride in a waterproof baggie attached to the webbing on my PFD, ready for use if the main GPS on deck craps out, or for radioing my position via VHF if I need help and am seperated from my boat.
 
Philip  
 
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From: Tom Buckley <nbrunner_at_telus.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:57:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
I have the 76CSX and am extremely satisfied with it. It is waterproof even
with the rubber caps on the back. It floats which alleviates a lot of stress
for me when I'm out on the water (salt).   I bought the Bluechart memory
card and it covers all of Vancouver Island, the mainland north to Charlottes
and south to Puget Sound. I don't have to go near my computer. I have the
Navigation Program for North America and I do use the computer for that.
Garmin carries an orange waterproof case for the X Series that does not have
a glare. It works well and the color makes it stand out if, well actually
when, I put it down and forget where I out the evasive devil.
 
I picked the 76 over the 60 because I didn't need the electronic compass/
The compass that comes on the 76 is more than enough for me.
 
One of the best purchases I have made.
 
 
 
Tom 
The first and last victory 
Is to conquer self 
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From: Mel Grindol <mel_at_grindol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 09:16:03 -0500
> From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>

> Is it possible to load multiple maps (assuming the 
> unit has enough memory) and switch maps using the unit?

Yes it is.  Since I have the older 76CS (got it when it first came 
out) loading all the maps I need and then selecting which map to view 
is what I have done.  There is also a ranking the unit uses to select 
which map to show by default (you can't change it).  Street maps come 
first, then the topo maps, then the base map that comes with the 
unit.  Not sure where the bluecharts rank since I don't have any (I 
don't paddle the coast).

When I go the BWCA I load the street maps for the drive there and the 
topo maps for my canoe trip.  When I go to put in I go through and 
turn off the street maps for upper MN so that the topo maps will 
appear.

On the map screen bring up the menu, move over to the menu item that 
shows what maps are loaded.  Then scroll through the individual maps 
and toggle off the street maps covering up your topo maps.

Mel
I'm not insane, but my other personality is.
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 07:56:48 -0800
Mel Grindol wrote:

[in response to John F's request:]
>> Is it possible to load multiple maps (assuming the 
>> unit has enough memory) and switch maps using the unit?

> Yes it is.  Since I have the older 76CS (got it when it first came 
> out) loading all the maps I need and then selecting which map to view 
> is what I have done.  There is also a ranking the unit uses to select 
> which map to show by default (you can't change it).  Street maps come 
> first, then the topo maps, then the base map that comes with the 
> unit.  Not sure where the bluecharts rank since I don't have any (I 
> don't paddle the coast).

I think the BlueCharts trump all the others, but have no direct experience 
with an -X unit.

John, this may not apply to the units you are considering, but on my (now 
outdated) Map60C, if you download a BlueChart chart, it overwrites the 
corresponding portion of the basemap (which comes with the unit); when you 
decide to paddle in a different BlueChart region, and download it, 
MapSource (the Garmin SW for handling charts) displaces the _first_ 
BlueChart, restores the basemap for the _old_ BlueChart chart area, and 
wipes out the corresponding portion of the basemap for the _new_ chart's 
area.  Woof.

As you might imagine, this can be pretty inconvenient; I expect it is one 
of the reasons people favor the -X units.  The other is the better antenna.

I would not care if Garmin left the basemap out of the unit -- I don't use 
a GPS as a navigation tool when driving.  But, it does bug me that I can't 
have BlueCharts from different regions simultaneously on my GPS.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:50:18 -0500
Dave Kruger wrote:
>
> I think the BlueCharts trump all the others, but have no direct 
> experience with an -X unit.
>
> John, this may not apply to the units you are considering, but on my 
> (now outdated) Map60C, if you download a BlueChart chart, it 
> overwrites the corresponding portion of the basemap (which comes with 
> the unit); when you decide to paddle in a different BlueChart region, 
> and download it, MapSource (the Garmin SW for handling charts) 
> displaces the _first_ BlueChart, restores the basemap for the _old_ 
> BlueChart chart area, and wipes out the corresponding portion of the 
> basemap for the _new_ chart's area.  Woof.
>
> As you might imagine, this can be pretty inconvenient; I expect it is 
> one of the reasons people favor the -X units.  The other is the better 
> antenna.
>
> I would not care if Garmin left the basemap out of the unit -- I don't 
> use a GPS as a navigation tool when driving.  But, it does bug me that 
> I can't have BlueCharts from different regions simultaneously on my GPS.
I mentioned this backchannel to someone but I ordered and should receive 
any day now, a 76Cx.  I found it on a mailorder site for $329 US, 
which,  oddly enough was same price they quoted for the 60Cx.   I'm not 
sure why the prices are the same but considering that the 76Cx floats 
and has a 128MB card instead of a 64MB card I went with the 76Cx instead 
of the 60Cx.   I think the Garmin site had a page for ordering the 
mini-SD cards and offered 32MB, 64MB, and 128MB versions. Does anyone 
know if the 76Cx will take a 32 or 64MB card?   If I am going to buy 
extra cards to store different map sets for different regions if they'll 
all fit on a smaller card I can save some money.
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From: Karl J. Smith <karl_at_karl.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 12:34:18 -0800
I'm not sure what problems you were having with different bluechart 
areas wiping each other out. I've tried my 60CS with topo data, road 
data, and the basemap data - you can use menu options on the device to 
choose which map to display. I'm assuming that it'd work the same with 
bluechart data (although I haven't actually tried it).

On my 60CSx, however, I have tried it and it works fine.  Be sure to get 
a  micro-sd card (not mini-sd, those are different). I got a 1GB card 
for ~$29 earlier this year and was able to put 3 bluechart regions (with 
*all* the maps for each!), routing road data and topo data in it, and it 
still has a ton of free space. You can can select which map is displayed 
at any given time using the menu options on the gps itself (press menu 
while looking at a map then scroll around to find the options). It will 
do things like "show all, hide all, show basemap, hide basemap, show 
XXX, hide XXX (where XXX is one map of your downloaded data), etc.".
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:06:26 -0800
> After years of putting off a GPS purchase, I've decided to hop into the
21st
> century.  It appears the the newly redone 76CSX and 60SCX are using the
new
> SIRF chipset and perform equally well. I will be using it for both
paddling
> and hiking. Given the curent rebate on the 60, they cost about the same.
>
> The 60CXS smaller and so seems more "hand friendly", but sinks, but will
be
> in a dry bag that will float....
> The 76CXS is a bigger (floats) so feels clunky, but evdently has boater
> oriented features. Are they useful to kayakers or just powerboaters?

Well, I've decided just to crawl from the late 20th century into early 21st,
getting
rid of my black-and white Garmin Legend and buying colour 60CS or 60CSX
instead (the only difference of X is expandable memory, as I understand).
And both have compass (unlike my Legend, or 60C model). Yeas, they are VERY
useful for kayakers. You'll get spoiled to a degree when the very thought of
going out without a GPS will feel scary.  But I doubt that you'll like using
it in a clear drybag, even with a colour screen - I tried this with Legend,
and could barely read small numbers on black-and-white screen through the
plastic, especially with crystallized salt on the surface, or in low-light
conditions, or in too bright light (glare).  Had to take it out of the bag
every time. 60 and 76 models are
reportedly more waterproof than Legend and Vista and don't need a drybag.

It is interesting that many online stores adverstise more expensive 60CSX
model as 60CS (which they don't even have, as it's been discontinued a while
ago). May be this is what confuses ebay byers, paying sometimes $300 for a
used 60CS, while for $340 they could get a new 60CSX (after the Garmin
rebate). Or it's just a Christmas shopping frenzy.
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From: Will Jennings <will_at_bigwoodenradio.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:24:56 -0600
> Well, I've decided just to crawl from the late 20th century into  
> early 21st,
> getting
> rid of my black-and white Garmin Legend and buying colour 60CS or  
> 60CSX
> instead (the only difference of X is expandable memory, as I  
> understand).


The X models have updated satellite capture capabilities in addition  
to flash memory cards
for quicker switching of map sets and data.  The improved performance  
in the X models allows
for quicker signal capture, especially under less-than-ideal  
conditions (tree canopy, etc.).
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:16:07 -0800
Will Jennings wrote:

> The X models have updated satellite capture capabilities in addition to
>  flash memory cards for quicker switching of map sets and data.  The
> improved performance in the X models allows for quicker signal capture,
> especially under less-than-ideal conditions (tree canopy, etc.).

These are real advantages of the X models over what I have.  A friend, 
however, allowed sea water to intrude inside the battery compartment (her 
fault, she says, not a flaw in the seal), which fried the card _and_ the 
GPS.  The card is under the batteries, and that allows water to get inside 
to circuitry.

Looking at my non-X model, it appears water inside the battery compartment 
would not enter the inside of the unit.  Anybody know if that is the case?

I have used mine, unprotected, on the deck of my kayak for two seasons of 
frequent use, rinsing carefully with fresh water each night, and had no 
failures or leaks.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: Michael Stoccardo <mstoccardo_at_hotmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:23:28 +0000
I had not thought about the glare resulting from the plastic of the dry bag. 
That would make the 76 more appealing as it floats, although being firmly 
attached to the kayak or PFD would be a must also.

I noticed that although they are advertised as being waterproof, the 
electrical ports in the back are only protected by a pressure fit rubber 
fitting. I'd be padding mostly in Puget Sound so salt water could be an 
issue. I like the minicell foam idea previously mentioned, that would go a 
ways toward making it more stable and protected, perhpas even protecting the 
back of the GPS from the elements somewhat.

Mike


>Well, I've decided just to crawl from the late 20th century into early 
>21st,
>getting
>rid of my black-and white Garmin Legend and buying colour 60CS or 60CSX
>instead (the only difference of X is expandable memory, as I understand).
>And both have compass (unlike my Legend, or 60C model). Yeas, they are VERY
>useful for kayakers. You'll get spoiled to a degree when the very thought 
>of
>going out without a GPS will feel scary.  But I doubt that you'll like 
>using
>it in a clear drybag, even with a colour screen - I tried this with Legend,
>and could barely read small numbers on black-and-white screen through the
>plastic, especially with crystallized salt on the surface, or in low-light
>conditions, or in too bright light (glare).  Had to take it out of the bag
>every time. 60 and 76 models are
>reportedly more waterproof than Legend and Vista and don't need a drybag.
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 11:10:01 -0800
Michael Stoccardo wrote:

> I noticed that although they are advertised as being waterproof, the 
> electrical ports in the back are only protected by a pressure fit rubber 
> fitting. I'd be padding mostly in Puget Sound so salt water could be an 
> issue. I like the minicell foam idea previously mentioned, that would go 
> a ways toward making it more stable and protected, perhpas even 
> protecting the back of the GPS from the elements somewhat.

Those ports on the back of the Map60CX are a weak spot, for sure.  Some 
folks have anointed them with dielectric grease (does not conduct), but 
then you have to worry about grit in the grease.  My solution is to rinse 
those areas with a little fresh water every evening after us, usually in 
the form of a wet tissue paper after wicking away any drops of salt water 
with a dry tissue.  Been doing this for three seasons with my 60C; the 
contacts work fine, and show no signs of corrosion.  It is the USB port 
connector that I am most concerned about, however, and I can't see inside 
on that one.

I think you're right -- the minicell pad does seem to reduce water 
intrusion, but there is still some water inside those rubber fittings.  Not 
a good job by Garmin, IMHO.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2007 10:15:43 -0500
At 03:06 PM 12/28/2006, alex wrote:

>It is interesting that many online stores adverstise more expensive 60CSX
>model as 60CS (which they don't even have, as it's been discontinued a while
>ago). May be this is what confuses ebay byers, paying sometimes $300 for a
>used 60CS, while for $340 they could get a new 60CSX (after the Garmin
>rebate). Or it's just a Christmas shopping frenzy.

So yesterday my wife was doing some net surfing and came across a 
site on geocaching.   She thought it looked like a lot of fun and 
asked my about it.   She said, "You've got a birthday coming up in a 
couple of weeks...and I remember you talking about getting a GPS awhile back".

So now I'm looking at getting a new toy for my birthday.  I'm also a 
bit torn about the 60C versus the CSX.  It seems that the pluggable 
SD cards is a good way to switch maps but I guess I'm unclear about 
how switching maps works.  I'm essentially looking at three different 
usages for the GPS.  I'd like to use for street maps when 
traveling,  topo maps when doing geocaching, and using a bluechart 
when paddling.  Is it possible to load multiple maps (assuming the 
unit has enough memory) and switch maps using the unit?  Do the 
removable SD cards provide *additional* memory such that I could have 
a street map in the unit and then plugin either a topo map or 
bluechart map?   I don't really see a problem keeping all the maps I 
might need on a laptop and downloading what I need to the GPS when I 
need it but I wonder which method is more cost effective?   It seems 
to me that I would need a blank SD card (at $50 a pop for a 32MB 
card) for each map type I want (probably a minimum of 3 cards) if I 
went with the X model.

The prices I'm looking at are about $245 for a 60C or $299 for a CSX 
(the garmin $50 rebate expired Dec. 30).  Any suggestions?

John Fereira
jaf30_at_cornell.edu
Ithaca, NY 
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 12:19:01 -0800
> I have used a Map60C for three seasons, and love it.  However, I
> carved a rectanguloidal minicell "float" to which it is lanyarded and
> Velcroed to solve two problems

Dave, how thick is the float (in the thinnest or thickest part, whatever),
and did you do anything to fix the unit to the pad?
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 18:12:13 -0800
alex wrote:
>> I have used a Map60C for three seasons, and love it.  However, I 
>> carved a rectanguloidal minicell "float" to which it is lanyarded and 
>> Velcroed to solve two problems
> 
> Dave, how thick is the float (in the thinnest or thickest part,
> whatever), and did you do anything to fix the unit to the pad?

The pad is a 5 in x 6 1/2 in unit, hollowed in the center to receive the 
back of the GPS, and wedge-shaped, the thicker end about 1 1/2 inches, and 
the thinner one about 1 inch.  There is Velcro in the recess (hook), and 
loop Velcro on the back of the GPS.  Also, the back has a couple two-inch 
wide strips of hook Velcro.  These provide enough friction the pad does not 
slide around on my spray skirt, unless the water is really rough.

The lanyard is fastened (hard-set square knot) to the web between the GPS
body and the protruding antenna, and passes through a 1/4 in ID
polyethylene tubing "L" (good plumbing store or aquarium shop) to keep the
lanyard pointing flat when it exits the front of the pad, and so the
lanyard does not erode the minicell.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:04:35 -0800
> for quicker switching of map sets and data.  The improved performance
> in the X models allows
> for quicker signal capture, especially under less-than-ideal
> conditions (tree canopy, etc.).

The benefit of quick switching between different maps is clear.  Though, for
somebody paddling mostly Puget Sound, and using only a Blue Chart, (or
switching to other uploaded maps no more than once a month, this will not be
an issue. And week signal due to tree canopy doesn't seem to be an issue for
most of kayakers, eh? But under overcast sky (where I didn't notice much
weakening even in older Legend), but if X is really capturing the signal
much faster than non-X in such a weather, - then yes, worth extra bucks.
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From: Dave Kruger <kdruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 05:22:36 -0800
alex wrote:

> The benefit of quick switching between different maps is clear.  Though, for
> somebody paddling mostly Puget Sound, and using only a Blue Chart, (or
> switching to other uploaded maps no more than once a month, this will not be
> an issue. And weak signal due to tree canopy doesn't seem to be an issue for
> most of kayakers, eh? But under overcast sky (where I didn't notice much
> weakening even in older Legend), but if X is really capturing the signal
> much faster than non-X in such weather, - then yes, worth extra bucks.

The BlueChart swapping is an issue if you go on a lengthy jaunt and cross a 
BlueChart boundary, because you will have to use _your own computer_ to 
wipe out one set of charts and install a different one in an older, non-X 
unit.

In three seasons of use, I never noted any degraded performance on my Map 
60C during cloudy weather ... but all my use was on the water.  In 
contrast, a buddy with an identical unit often lost signal when hunting in 
deep forest.  The critical question is whether the newer units can operate 
in deep forest.

The upshot is that if you want a really good color mapping unit, good for 
on the water use, this is a good time to convince a friend to upgrade, so 
he can sell you his "old" non-X unit for a really low price, complete with 
BlueCharts!

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: alex <al.m_at_3web.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Garmin GPSMAP 76CSX Vs 60CSX
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:12:57 -0800
> I've tried my 60CS with topo data, road
> data, and the basemap data - you can use menu options on the device to
> choose which map to display.

Did you load BOTH topo CD and roadmap CD (Cityselect or whatever they call
it - I forgot) in addition to the preloaded basemap, and could use any of
those three, any time?
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