I've just purchased my first kayak, a high end, Kevlar bottom, skeg only, expensive model from a well known and reputable manufacturer, ( I'll identify them in a later message once I receive some advice from list members). I picked it up yesterday and took it out for my first paddle today and complimented myself of the choice of model which has the characteristics I've been looking for. However - it leaks. I first noticed this upon setting it up this morning. I had left it on my truck rack with an open cockpit and there was a light rain last night, not much but enough to put a cup full or two of water in the cockpit. When I opened the box, stern, and day hatches, I found a noticeable amount of water in each of them and they has been dry when I pick up the boat yesterday. I carefully dried each of the storage areas, stored my gear, and took an enjoyable 2 hour paddle in mild conditions. Upon returning to shore, the cockpit has a cup full or two of water which resulted from my entering and exiting the boat. However the storage compartments once again had a noticeable amount water sloshing in the bottom. I haven't had the time to diagnose the exact cause yet but suspect that the bulwarks between the cockpit and storage areas is not properly sealed. I've been kayaking for the last 10+ years using rental boats several time a year and like to do 3-7 day camping excursions, so a dry storage area, (even though all my gears is packed in waterproof containers) is important to me. I've found that with rental boats, some leak a little and some don't, but I've never had much control of what I was given. My questions to this list are: 1) How common is this problem found in a new kayak ? 2) Would you fix the problem yourself ? ( I assume that this is doable) 3) Would you return the kayak and demand that the supplier correct the problem ? 4) Would you return the kayak and demand another or a refund? /Elden *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Elden: If there was a "noticeable amount of water sloshing" about in the compartments, this is a manufacturing defect. You should definitely return it to the dealer for a refund until a new boat arrives. Josh *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Elden Saathoff wrote: > 1)How common is this problem found in a new kayak ? Not uncommon. See below. > 2) Would you fix the problem yourself ? ( I assume that this is doable) Depends. see below. > 3 Would you return the kayak and demand that the supplier correct the > problem ? Depends. See below. > 4) Would you return the kayak and demand another or a refund? Only if the process below does not resolve the problem. Elden, we do not have enough information, yet. Some hatch closures will leak a little unless adjusted properly. You need to describe the hatch closure system so we can decide if it is that type. In addition, you need to do some testing to verify the source of the leak. You can do this by closing the hatches and putting a gallon of water inside the cockpit. Then lift the stern and rotate the kayak around its long axis a bit. Open the front hatch and see if there is water in the front compartment. If so, then the forward bulkhead is compromised. Do the same test on the rear bulkhead by lifting the bow (etc.). Another source of leakage could be the deck fittings, if they are not sealed properly. You can test these by having a friend spray a hose over the deck while you peer inside, using a headlamp, to see if any leak. If the boat is from a reputable manufacturer, the dealer should correct any problems. After you have done your testing, if you can not resolve the leaks yourself easily, take the boat back to the dealer and report the problems and the testing you did. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I filled the cockpit with several inches of water, (up to the bottom of seat), and left it on an inclined area of my yard bow down and later rotated with stern down. In both cases there was water in the bow and stern compartments, about a fingers width in depth at the lowest point of the hull. I haven't checked the deck fittings or skeg enclosure yet, but as the first indication of leakage occurred before I even put the yak in the water, I don't believe that these are the primary problem. At this point, I'm going to notify the dealer who is also the manufacturer and make it his problem to fix. I was primarily looking for a group consensus as to whether leakage of this kind in a new boat is "acceptable" or not. Thanks for everyone's advice. I'll post interesting aspects of the continuing story as they occur ... /Elden *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My VCP Pintail is probably 12 years old -- or more. It has a lot of hairline cracks in the deck -- especially at the bulkheads. But, as long as the hatches are attached properly, it doesn't leak at all. That's not an answer, but it's a data point: that kind of leakage in a new, composite kayak shouldn't be considered a norm. Side issue: I had the job of volunteer crash test dummy for CLC in Annapolis for a while, and was the first to paddle a new prototype -- so new that some of the epoxy was a tad green. No hatches, no drain holes, but well sealed bulkheads. Warm day in May, cold water, black hull. After 20 minutes paddling, I heard and felt something that closely approximated the impact of a rifle round hitting the boat. (I found that this craft accelerated pretty well when aimed at the beach.) Looking around, seeing nothing in the area, I discovered a small (half inch diameter) implosion in the deck at the forward bulkhead -- the weakest area in the boat, apparently, and overcome by the decreasing atmospheric pressure inside the hull. Your problem is definitely different, but something to think about. All my tightly hatched boats have a 1/16th inch weep hole in the metacenter of each bulkhead to avoid the problem. The prototype didn't. Joq -----Original Message----- From: Elden Saathoff I filled the cockpit with several inches of water, (up to the bottom of seat), and left it on an inclined area of my yard bow down and later rotated with stern down. In both cases there was water in the bow and stern compartments, about a fingers width in depth at the lowest point of the hull. I haven't *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Elden, I don't know why you are reluctant to mention the name of the kayak. I bought a NC 17 from Novus Composites, the dealer/manufacturer. Both bulkheads and the seam leaked badly. They sent me some sealant which I applied and there are no more leaks. But it was a pain and should not be necessary. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elden Saathoff" <elden_at_sprintmail.com> Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] New Kayak - Leaking Bulkheads >I filled the cockpit with several inches of water, (up to the bottom of > seat), and left it on an inclined area of my yard bow down and later > rotated with stern down. > > In both cases there was water in the bow and stern compartments, about a > fingers width in depth at the lowest point of the hull. I haven't > checked the deck fittings or skeg enclosure yet, but as the first indication of > leakage occurred before I even put the yak in the water, I don't believe > that these are the primary problem. > > At this point, I'm going to notify the dealer who is also the manufacturer > and make it his problem to fix. > > I was primarily looking for a group consensus as to whether leakage of > this kind in a new boat is "acceptable" or not. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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