This looks like it could be fun, on a smaller scale, for paddlers. http://www.thefalkirkwheel.co.uk Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I had a friend who, some years ago, did a trip along the Trent-Severn Canal between Lake Simcoe & Ottawa, up in Canada. Spectacular slides were shown, including a lock somewhere in that chain that consisted of two counterbalanced troughs. I don't remember the details now but somehow an 18 inch height difference was created in one and the other was lifted upward by that extra weight, so the entire structure powered itself... Joe P. -----Original Message----- >This looks like it could be fun, on a smaller scale, for paddlers. >http://www.thefalkirkwheel.co.uk >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peterborough Lock #21 http://www.cruising.ca/trent/docs/L-21.html -----Original Message----- I had a friend who, some years ago, did a trip along the Trent-Severn Canal between Lake Simcoe & Ottawa, up in Canada. Spectacular slides were shown, including a lock somewhere in that chain that consisted of two counterbalanced troughs. I don't remember the details now but somehow an 18 inch height difference was created in one and the other was lifted upward by that extra weight, so the entire structure powered itself... Joe P. -----Original Message----- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
www.usnwc.org is the world's largest artificial white water park with a conveyor belt to take paddlers back to the top without getting out of their kayaks. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Joe P. <jpylka_at_earthlink.net> wrote: > I had a friend who, some years ago, did a trip along the Trent-Severn > Canal between Lake Simcoe & Ottawa, up in Canada. Spectacular slides were > shown, including a lock somewhere in that chain that consisted of two > counterbalanced troughs. I don't remember the details now but somehow an 18 > inch height difference was created in one and the other was lifted upward by > that extra weight, so the entire structure powered itself... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Last Sunday a bunch of us went to Bowers Museum to watch a movie on the kayak expedition down the Tsangpo Gorge in Tibet. Death defying seemed a good description. Definitely no conveyor belt to the top; just a lot of dangerous portages with mutinous porters. I've never been in a WW boat; I can't imagine it's as easy as they made it look despite monster conditions. Some day I hope to try out the run they have in the Truckee in downtown Reno. Luckily, I have an active imagination and can easily imagine I'm taming the Tsangpo! Mark -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Perfect for slalom races or portages www.usnwc.org is the world's largest artificial white water park with a conveyor belt to take paddlers back to the top without getting out of their kayaks. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:12 AM, Joe P. <jpylka_at_earthlink.net> wrote: > I had a friend who, some years ago, did a trip along the Trent-Severn > Canal between Lake Simcoe & Ottawa, up in Canada. Spectacular slides were > shown, including a lock somewhere in that chain that consisted of two > counterbalanced troughs. I don't remember the details now but somehow an 18 > inch height difference was created in one and the other was lifted upward by > that extra weight, so the entire structure powered itself... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> wrote: > Last Sunday a bunch of us went to Bowers Museum to watch a movie on the > kayak expedition down the Tsangpo Gorge in Tibet. Death defying seemed a > good description. Definitely no conveyor belt to the top; just a lot of > dangerous portages with mutinous porters. I saw that movie!!! It was awesome. > > I've never been in a WW boat; I can't imagine it's as easy as they made it > look despite monster conditions. Some day I hope to try out the run they > have in the Truckee in downtown Reno. Luckily, I have an active > imagination > and can easily imagine I'm taming the Tsangpo! The w/w boat you want to use is called a Dagger RPM-Max. They're available on Craigslist for around $300. If you buy one I want to be around the first time you try to paddle it in a straight line. <hehehe> I'd bring mine down but I have no more room on the top of the Killed-In-Action after the two Mariners. Craig Jungers Feeling like Walter Mitty in Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, If for no other reason than it improving your sea kayak performance, you should sign up for a basic whitewater instruction course. It is an incredible experience and you may quite likely find that it is much more than a good overall kayak primer. Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> Cc: paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 6:23 pm Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Perfect for slalom races or portages Last Sunday a bunch of us went to Bowers Museum to watch a movie on the kayak expedition down the Tsangpo Gorge in Tibet. Death defying seemed a good description. Definitely no conveyor belt to the top; just a lot of dangerous portages with mutinous porters. I've never been in a WW boat; I can't imagine it's as easy as they made it look despite monster conditions. Some day I hope to try out the run they have in the Truckee in downtown Reno. Luckily, I have an active imagination and can easily imagine I'm taming the Tsangpo! Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rob, I agree the skills you learn in WW can only make you a better sea kayaker. Just not many rivers in my neck of the woods! I'll have to look into taking a course sometime. Mark -----Original Message----- From: rcgibbert_at_aol.com [mailto:rcgibbert_at_aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 12:25 PM To: sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com; paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Perfect for slalom races or portages Mark, If for no other reason than it improving your sea kayak performance, you should sign up for a basic whitewater instruction course. It is an incredible experience and you may quite likely find that it is much more than a good overall kayak primer. Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> Cc: paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 6:23 pm Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Perfect for slalom races or portages Last Sunday a bunch of us went to Bowers Museum to watch a movie on the kayak expedition down the Tsangpo Gorge in Tibet. Death defying seemed a good description. Definitely no conveyor belt to the top; just a lot of dangerous portages with mutinous porters. I've never been in a WW boat; I can't imagine it's as easy as they made it look despite monster conditions. Some day I hope to try out the run they have in the Truckee in downtown Reno. Luckily, I have an active imagination and can easily imagine I'm taming the Tsangpo! Mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Get the MapQuest Toolbar, Maps, Traffic, Directions & More! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>I agree the skills you learn in WW can only make you a better sea kayaker. Just not many rivers in my neck of the woods! I'll have to look into taking a course sometime. I have never done whitewater, but I know a lot of whitewater paddlers who show up at the surf beach during the off season, and I believe, from talking to them, that playing in the ocean surf uses most of the same skills that whitewater paddling does, and is more directly applicable to what we do in sea kayaks. Just my two cents, Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kayakers, I love watching the occasional WW guy visiting San Onofre do a face plant into sand on a dumping beach break during high tide. Duane Southern California --- On Sun, 4/20/08, Scott Hilliard <kiayker_at_sbcglobal.net> wrote: > I have never done whitewater, but I know a lot of > whitewater paddlers who show up at the surf beach during > the off season, and I believe, from talking to them, that > playing in the ocean surf uses most of the same skills that > whitewater paddling does, and is more directly applicable to > what we do in sea kayaks. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Scott, I'll add a different perspective, but take this as per the venue of kayaking. Where I live, the sea paddling we are?often apt to find has tidal streams, cold water, likely large waves, sometimes standing waves and so forth.?Some of us do take our surf or sea kayaks out to the beach?and paddling whitewater enhance that experience, too. If Mark were never to go anywhere besides southern California salt water, he should learn whatever is there. Your point is well taken. However, beyond his and your venue he?will require another bag of tricks. The Kern river ain't all that far from you guys, go give it a stab and see what ya think. Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Scott Hilliard <kiayker_at_sbcglobal.net> >>I agree the skills you learn in WW can only make you a better sea kayaker.? Just not many rivers in my neck of the woods! I'll have to look into taking? a course sometime.? I have never done whitewater, but I know a lot of whitewater paddlers who show up at the surf beach during the off season, and I believe, from talking to them, that playing in the ocean surf uses most of the same skills that whitewater paddling does, and is more directly applicable to what we do in sea kayaks.? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Let me add some to this thread too. Well, ok... I'll do it whether you let me or not. :P Where I paddle a lot (Puget Sound) you are likely to find the same cold water and strong currents, eddies, boat wakes, and irregular wave action. While I agree that ocean surfing requires many of the same skills as some white water, they aren't *exactly* the same skills. For one thing, on the ocean the waves move and the water (mostly) stands still. On a river it's the water that moves and the waves stand still. This can be a bigger difference than you might think. A w/w class exposes the paddler to a lot of changing conditions in a short period of time. While a sea kayaker may only cross a strong eddyline a few times a year (or maybe never), a w/w kayaker eddies in and out dozens of times in one run. It becomes second nature. And while you guys have to wait for the perfect wave to show up to give you a great ride, I can just drive to one. It was there last season and the season before that. And you will be surprised at how small a standing wave you can effectively surf and how you will react to the sensation of feeling like you're moving but having the visual clues (the scenery around you, except for the water) standing still. I actually recommend that you take a raft ride down the river first so that the stress of not knowing what is around the next bend isn't so bad. Of course, the corollary to that is that *knowing* what is around the next bend can be even worse. But take comfort in knowing that you can always get out and walk over to see exactly where you will be paddling. A luxury you don't often get on the ocean. In the same vein, there are a lot of w/w paddlers who think that sea kayakers are a bunch of gutless wimps paddling around on flat water. So perhaps it would be good for some of them to get out with a few of us to learn (as I did) that you can get a nice adrenaline rush on salt water, too. And you don't have to pay for a ride back to your car. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>While I agree that ocean surfing requires many of the same skills as some white water, they aren't *exactly* the same skills. For one thing, on the ocean the waves move and the water (mostly) stands still. On a river it's the water that moves and the waves stand still. This can be a bigger difference than you might think. Yeah, but the boat doesn't know the difference :-) I understand what your saying and I know that there are some differences between whitewater and ocean surf. Like I said before, I have never done whitewater river, but the first time I played in Deception Pass I was thrown for a loop trying to figure out how to cross the conflicting eddylines. It took me a couple of tries to figure it out. Anything you can do in a kayak that is "different" certainly contributes to your base skills. Maybe someday I'll take a shot at WW. I must admit that those standing waves really look appealing :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think we agree much more than we disagree. Like Craig says, one doesn't have to cross all that many eddy lines in sea kayaking, but when one does, it is all the difference in the world to understand what is going on and what kind of presentation is to be made of the boat and body to the water. The swim in the ocean?can be?great enough to undo all. Paddlers in predictably tidal waters will benefit much more, in that the exploitation of the water for one's own gain. Rounding headlands often puts current, wind and bottom contours?into interesting interplay. Reading water in the scale of the rivers, large and small and on an oceanic scale is critical. What does a rip look like from the beach? What does one expect the water will look like given the push of current around a headland and what will it look like on the other side given the wind? I wonder about that in the river, too, but the water is usually twice as fast as Deception Pass and thus the reactions critical. Recently we took a course on oar frame rafting. Moving a big raft under oar and exploiting the water and features showed how much more I need to know. I learned some things that will benefit kayaking in fresh or saltwater. May not be your cup of tea, but extended river trips are nice to have a?raft around. It turned out to be great fun and rowing is now not looked upon any longer as duty for the trip. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My two cents worth - I raced slalom for almost two decades, still paddle whitewater, and have sea kayaked since 1994, including expeditions to remote and wild places. There are tons of similarities between things that can happen in rough conditions on the sea and what can happen in real whitewater. But the differences can be enormous as well. I have surfed really big stuff on rivers in my highly rockered and relatively short (compared to a sea kayak. I'm old and don't paddle kayaks that are shorter than my paddle) WW boat. Surfing even moderate waves on the ocean or Lake Michigan is so different that it seems like a different sport. As has been said, the waves on river are stationary and the water moves. Open water waves move while the water doesn't. Those dynamics are very different to the boater. When a river wave collapses on you, you get pummeled (pummelled?) but there is no sensation of being dragged behind a truck like what a sea wave does. And if you have ever been windowshaded on a river or on the ocean, well, I'll take the river every time. Crossing eddylines, as has been said, is a very different experience in a WW boat than in a sea kayak. Ditto ferrying. In a WW boat the forward or rearward lean of the paddler makes all the difference in ferrying. I have no effect on my sea kayak with front or back leans. I have no doubt that WW paddling will make anyone a better sea kayaker. In big water things happen fast in many different planes. But the power of an ocean wave, which is never alone but part of a series of waves, is an order of magnitude or two harder than a river wave. So. . . . to be really great, paddle in as many different boats in as many different environments with as many different paddles as possible. Nothing to it! As long as we live to be hundred or so. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:39 AM, James <jimtibensky_at_fastmail.fm> wrote: > > So. . . . to be really great, paddle in as many different boats in as > many different environments with as many different paddles as possible. Well said, James! Nothing is too easy or "not my style". The more you paddle the more you learn. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that the more time you spend on boats - period - the more you learn. Go to USCG Auxiliary courses, read books on heavy weather sailing, sail on a friend's sailboat (racers are always looking for crew), learn to waterski and/or wakeboard, rent a windsurfer and try it. Don't turn your nose up at any activity on the water or in the water. And finally, rent a stand-up jet ski! Seriously. It teaches you more about balance and edging than you can imagine. I've done every single one of these (and more that are unavailable to most people) and learned something important from each and every one. Nothing to it! As long as we live to be hundred or so. Just living until one is a hundred may not be much of a trick any more. It's *living* until you're one hundred that is my goal. :) Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Then there's the ski hill thing . . . -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Craig Jungers And finally, rent a stand-up jet ski! Seriously. -------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Rob, I agree the skills you learn in WW can only make you a better sea kayaker. Just not many rivers in my neck of the woods! I'll have to look into taking a course sometime. Mark -----Original Message----- From: rcgibbert_at_aol.com [mailto:rcgibbert_at_aol.com] Mark, If for no other reason than it improving your sea kayak performance, you should sign up for a basic whitewater instruction course. It is an incredible experience and you may quite likely find that it is much more than a good overall kayak primer. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, If for no other reason than it improving your sea kayak performance, you should sign up for a basic whitewater instruction course. It is an incredible experience and you may quite likely find that it is much more than a good overall kayak primer. Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> Cc: paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 6:23 pm Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Perfect for slalom races or portages Last Sunday a bunch of us went to Bowers Museum to watch a movie on the kayak expedition down the Tsangpo Gorge in Tibet. Death defying seemed a good description. Definitely no conveyor belt to the top; just a lot of dangerous portages with mutinous porters. I've never been in a WW boat; I can't imagine it's as easy as they made it look despite monster conditions. Some day I hope to try out the run they have in the Truckee in downtown Reno. Luckily, I have an active imagination and can easily imagine I'm taming the Tsangpo! Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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