Yesterday, five of us set off on a harbor to harbor paddle and return from Channel Islands Harbor in Oxnard, CA to Ventura Harbor in Ventura, CA. As we exited the Channel Islands Harbor, we went through an area of shoals that we frequently like to play in. Yesterday, the water conditions were completely different than anything I have everseen. Fellow Paddlewiser Patrick Martin was several yards behind me in one of his Valley Boats. I don't remember if it was his Pintail or Avocet. Anyway, out of nowhere, a breaking wave hit both of us on our left side. I immediately braced into it and was soon side surfing (as was Patrick). Out of the corner of my eye, I caught a glimpse of something on my right and found there was a breaking wave coming at me from that side too. Now my dilemma was "which side do I brace and edge towards?" Somehow, I managed to switch sides just as the other wave hit me. A big "whoo hoo" and a couple of paddle strokes and I was out of it. Patrick and I were both laughing and we both thought we heard Dumpy saying, "wait 'til next time." Has anybody else ever been in ocean conditions where waves were breaking on you from two directions at once? Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yes, a few times. Usually it involved waves scissoring from 45 degree angles. I almost back looped once. On another occasion I was preparing to hop over the pile of an inbound breaker and one came in from the beam and broke on top of me. After the big brace I was back surfed a bit. Shrugged my shoulders and went on my way. Sounds like you had an interesting time. Cheers, Rob G -----Original Message----- From: Steve Holtzman <sh_at_actglobal.net> To: 'paddlewise' <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 1:01 pm Subject: [Paddlewise] Wierd Shoals or Beating Dumpy Yesterday, five of us set off on a harbor to harbor paddle and return from Channel Islands Harbor in Oxnard, CA to Ventura Harbor in Ventura, CA. As we exited the Channel Islands Harbor, we went through an area of shoals that we frequently like to play in. Yesterday, the water conditions were completely different than anything I have everseen. Fellow Paddlewiser Patrick Martin was several yards behind me in one of his Valley Boats. I don't remember if it was his Pintail or Avocet. Anyway, out of nowhere, a breaking wave hit both of us on our left side. I immediately braced into it and was soon side surfing (as was Patrick). Out of the corner of my eye, I caught a glimpse of something on my right and found there was a breaking wave coming at me from that side too. Now my dilemma was "which side do I brace and edge towards?" Somehow, I managed to switch sides just as the other wave hit me. A big "whoo hoo" and a couple of paddle strokes and I was out of it. Patrick and I were both laughing and we both thought we heard Dumpy saying, "wait 'til next time." Has anybody else ever been in ocean conditions where waves were breaking on you from two directions at once? Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We had similar conditions last summer just off the point of Cape Lookout in North Carolina. The water shoals near the point, so any swell results in a line of breakers to the south of the point. That day, swell from the east and south west combined for, what we called, "zipper waves." You'd get launched into the air if you happen to be under the point of collision of two approaching waves. Brian On Jun 16, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Steve Holtzman wrote: > Has anybody else ever been in ocean conditions where waves were > breaking on > you from two directions at once? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Has anybody else ever been in ocean conditions where waves were breaking on > you from two directions at once? I believe that's called "clapotis." A great example of this is between the islands of Anacapa. The waves will actually refract around the small islets and meet the waves coming in from the ocean side. Another great place to encounter this is where waves are being reflected off of a sea wall or some sheer cliffs and bounced back into the incoming waves. I'm not quite sure from your description just what was going on in your case, but it's all great fun :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott said: > I believe that's called "clapotis." A great example of this is between > the islands of Anacapa. The waves will actually refract around the > small > islets This wasn't clapotis. I've been in the calpotis between the islands of Anacapa and I've also played in the reflecting waves and resulting clapotis off of sea walls. Clapotis results when two wave crests come together to form a pyramid shaped wave that basically just jumps straight up. This was two *breaking* waves with a pile of whitewater in front of each. At first I was side surfing to my right, then a while still riding that wave, another wave pushing a pile of whitewater in front of it, was breaking on my right side which forced me to actually start side surfing to my left. Whatever it was called, it was exciting and fun. Steve Holtzman __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3192 (20080616) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The colliding waves off Cape Lookout looked something like this: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6931/wallpaperlj4.jpg > This was two *breaking* waves with a pile of whitewater in front of > each. At > first I was side surfing to my right, then a while still riding > that wave, > another wave pushing a pile of whitewater in front of it, was > breaking on my > right side which forced me to actually start side surfing to my left. > Whatever it was called, it was exciting and fun. > > Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Brian, Your picture is awesome! That to me is a classic picture of clapotis. Bet you're glad you weren't right where the "haystack" came up. LOL Steve Holtzman From: Brian Curtiss [mailto:bc_at_asdi.com] The colliding waves off Cape Lookout looked something like this: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6931/wallpaperlj4.jpg *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Clapotis, schmatopist. What you choose to call colliding waves is moot; the phenomenon is the same. Brian's spectacular photo illustrates one of the cool things about "back" body-surfing rebound off cliffs: you get tossed into the air! We used to do this with abandon, when the waves and tide were just right, off the cliffs at Solana Beach, CA. For a body surfer, it is a lot safer than it looks, because there is a nice lull in between to regroup. I don't think I have the balls to try it in my kayak, though. We never told our parents about this. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I go looking for this stuff - at least I used to once I had my Nordkapp dialed in for a perfect snug fit with my "knee tube." It was also important to wear a helmet as weird things happen you don't necessarily expect with shoals and such bottoming out quickly. Sandy bottoms often contain reeflets here and there. There are some fantastic examples of separate wave trains colliding up near Cape Scott and North Brooks. You might have to wait for the right conditions, which often paddlers don't as they are on a tight, multiday schedule. At these spots you can surf over one side of the berm to open water on the other side, then suddenly another wave out of phase can surf you back over the berm to open water and more surf on the other side. Sometimes the two waves collide actually over the berm and if you are there, well, does it get any better for the jaded paddler? People, you haven't lived until you have tried this. Folks spend a fortune watching action movies all their lives or going to amusement park rides and even paying to go skydiving. With a little investment in a good boat and proper immersion apparel, you can be out playing in phenomenally outrageous conditions within an hour or even less on some coasts. I suppose you can have an adrenaline rush even quicker too by running across a busy highway, but hopefully you get my point. I've also been knocked over unawares by these things while trying to find a landing in heavy surf behind an island where I thought it was going to be safe. Naa. I was at the MEC Paddlefest in Victoria Sunday. Atlantis Kayaks has their new Spartan VI (Vancouver Island) prototype out now. Robin has done a fantastic job. The kayak is a classic hull, round bilge with shallow v, fine entry and exit lines, yet at 21" wide and 17' or so long, it is super fast _and_ super stable. It has a very low profile, yet good room for your feet. It tracks well, turns on a lean, has somewhat less rocker than some kayaks yet doesn't need a skeg. It is rock solid on edge unlike the Outer Island (another low profile kayak). I think I may have found my thrill on blueberry hill. Made here on Vancouver Island. I didn't even try out the Whisky 16, though clapotis seekers might benefit from a kayak with lots of bow buoyancy, including other designs for a perfect playboat. I'm going for low windage and a tight cockpit. Can't get that need for speed, need for high-wind performance out of my mind. We shall see. Clapotis and zipper waves here we come... Doug Lloyd > Clapotis, schmatopist. > > What you choose to call colliding waves is moot; the phenomenon is the > same. Brian's spectacular photo illustrates one of the cool things about > "back" body-surfing rebound off cliffs: you get tossed into the air! We > used to do this with abandon, when the waves and tide were just right, off > the cliffs at Solana Beach, CA. For a body surfer, it is a lot safer than > it looks, because there is a nice lull in between to regroup. I don't > think I have the balls to try it in my kayak, though. > > We never told our parents about this. > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd said: There are some fantastic examples of seperate wave trains colliding up near Cape Scott and North Brooks. I paddled around Cape Scott a few years ago. Waves were coming in to shore and boouncing off the sheer cliffs. Tide was falling, creating a big eddy around our side of the Cape. So, we paddled through very big (way over my head) waves coming from three and sometimes four directions. Some of the waves met up and made funny, swirling haystacks. Haviing paddled a lot of whitewater, this was all fun (nervous fun, but fun) for me. The strangest part was, just as another boat and I were accidently surfing side by side on a big wave we noticed that we had company. A large group of sea lions were surfing the wave with us. They were feeding on the salmon that had bunched up in the meeting currents. We surfed and played for a while, always with sea lions joining us, looking at us, and even bumping us a few times. That was one of the great paddling experiences of my life. Last month I was fortunate enough to paddle in the Dodecanese islands in Greece. Kalymnos has huge, sheer cliffs. When we passed them, the waves were building to peaks of about five feet. They came straight into the cliffs and bounced off at angles determined by the angle of the cliff to the wave. We deliberately paddled right up against the cliffs where the wave action seemed more regular than it was further off. For two hours we surfed, bounced and ran riot in the confusion. Rock gardens added to the fun. The more relaxed we got and the less we trusted our eyes, the easier the balance got. With eyes closed, it was downright relaxing. I think a big part of the problem in this kind of water is that we attempt to anticipate what our eyes tell us will happen rather than just let the boat keep itself up by leaving it be. I found paddling along the cliff without a paddle no harder than with, only slower. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > At these spots you can surf over one side of the berm to open water on the > other side, then suddenly another wave out of phase can surf you back over > the berm to open water and more surf on the other side. I found a spot like that on Lake Coeur d'Alene (35 miles east of Spokane, WA). About 2 miles south of Black Rock Marina the lake doglegs to the west and there is a gravel shoal that extends out that stays about 4' deep for a hundred hards or so. Large powerboats moving up and down the lake tend to cut this corner close enough to create some surfable waves that rise and break over this berm. So you surf a south-bound boat's wake across in one direction and then surf a north-bound boat's wake the other direction. Great fun!!! The family who owned the house (mansion?) on that point watched me the entire time and when I had finished beckoned me in to their docks and was very curious. They didn't think kayaks could surf... and had never thought *anyone* could surf on a lake. I've been back a few times but it's only good if you have big boats (and a lot of them) going fast. > Sometimes the two waves collide actually over the berm and if you are > there, well, does it get any better for the jaded paddler? People, you > haven't lived until you have tried this. Folks spend a fortune watching > action movies all their lives or going to amusement park rides and even > paying to go skydiving. With a little investment in a good boat and proper > immersion apparel, you can be out playing in phenomenally outrageous > conditions within an hour or even less on some coasts. I suppose you can > have an adrenaline rush even quicker too by running across a busy highway, > but hopefully you get my point. Kayaking gives me more bang for the buck than any other sport. White water paddlers all think sea kayaking is tame stuff. We just have to look harder for our fun... but we don't have to take two cars. Some people paddle for the tranquility.... some people don't paddle for the tranquility. > > It tracks well, turns on a lean, has somewhat less rocker than some kayaks > yet doesn't need a skeg. It is rock solid on edge unlike the Outer Island > (another low profile kayak). I think I may have found my thrill on blueberry > hill. Made here on Vancouver Island. I didn't even try out the Whisky 16, > though clapotis seekers might benefit from a kayak with lots of bow > buoyancy, including other designs for a perfect playboat. I'm going for low > windage and a tight cockpit. Can't get that need for speed, need for > high-wind performance out of my mind. We shall see. Clapotis and zipper > waves here we come... Wow! All without a skeg, too!!! My Mariner Express is 16' long and 21" wide so the Spartan VI sounds pretty hot to me. Someone has got to solve the insane border crossing situation so I can spend more time paddling where it's more fun; namely: Vancouver Island. I don't know if you all know just how lucky you are or not. But you should!!! My mutha-ship now has interior LED lighting as well as LED running lights, the propane tank is in a locker and the locker is mounted and the hose connected to the stove, and it's been launched (once) and didn't sink. (Didn't run either... had to have the trailer weighed and inspected without the boat on it.) If the border situation were sane I could launch at Anacortes and be in the Gulf Islands in an hour with my own bed and breakfast. Damn bureaucrats, anyway. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jim Tibensky wrote > > Last month I was fortunate enough to paddle in the Dodecanese islands in > Greece. Kalymnos has huge, sheer cliffs. When we passed them, the > waves were building to peaks of about five feet. They came straight > into the cliffs and bounced off at angles determined by the angle of the > cliff to the wave. We deliberately paddled right up against the cliffs > where the wave action seemed more regular than it was further off. For > two hours we surfed, bounced and ran riot in the confusion. Rock > gardens added to the fun. > I've done this off of East Sooke Park just west of Victoria BC. You are absolutely right. I would get in close to the rock wall where the wave or surge coming down the Strait of Juan da Fuca would lift me up the vertical wall like I was on an elevator. Your mind and eyes tell you that you are going to be smashed against the rock wall but for some inexplicable reason there is always a cushion of water a couple if inches wide between you and the wall. When the elevator starts to drop you surf back away from the wall. On that day I was getting these great surf rides that seemed to go on for ever. What was neat was I'd be surfing back into the on coming surge. Once the energy of the rebounding water played out I'd ride the surge back into the wall. I must have made six or seven trips with very few forward stokes, just the timely brace and a stern rudder. If you want to try this; the first time do it with a couple of buddies, wear a helmet, and have decent tow lines so you can initiate a rescue should things go wrong. I did this on waves that were not dumping down on the rock face, That would indicate the bottom of the wave had slowed on an underwater obstacle causing it to loose energy and spill or dumb onto the rock face. On this day and place the waves would climb the wall and rebound back away. Lots of fun. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The more relaxed we got and the less we trusted our eyes, the easier the > balance got. With eyes closed, it was downright relaxing. I think a > big part of the problem in this kind of water is that we attempt to > anticipate what our eyes tell us will happen rather than just let the > boat keep itself up by leaving it be. I found paddling along the cliff > without a paddle no harder than with, only slower. > > Jim Tibensky Wow Jim, you have to have a big set of "antinodes" to close your eyes in a situation like that. I find the Oregon coast a bit different from Vancouver Island's west coast when it comes to clapotis and other gnarly hydraulics. Seems like even far out the sea bed shallows extensively with sand whereas much of the V.Island's west coast the sea is fairly deep right up to close to the cliffs (unless you are atop and extensive shelving reef, common to some locations). On island escapades I can loiter at the base of a cliff on a good swell day but the same attempts on the Oregon coast yielded a more compelling sentimentality that made me way more cautious in these domains as I explored further and at times a little desperate as I plowed through rock gardens full boar, sidesurfing over jagged reefs wondering if I'd ever be released from the grip of the waves. Upside down was even more interesting. The water was clear and you could see the rocks whizzing by beneath your helmet. Solo, one really was playing Russian Roulette where there was a possibility of getting knocked unconscious, though even with a team of paddlers, one shouldn't be provoked to take more chances. So, I have a lot of respect for open water, Oregonian playboaters. I'd also say that a minimum 22'" wide boat with a bit of a flat hull would be the ideal. I'm not sure how many Paddlewisers, or other paddlers out there for that matter, paddle to remote wilderness where interesting hydraulics present themselves to the eager paddler. I've done base camping in the vicinity of San Joseph Bay, North Brooks, and Pachena Bay (Port Renfrew from a vehicle) with the sole purpose of finding lumpy, dump-the-frumpy stuff to find severe hydraulics. It works best if you have toured the area before, know the local conditions, and can come back without the soulish draw of needing to go off seeing new coast as you already know it, so are content to zero in on the more technical sections you normally avoid or pass through quickly when conditions were a go with your fully loaded boat. It is a different kind of kayaking that while requiring good equipment and skill levels and confidence in those two items, it really equates more with a fascination for the reciprocality of safety and a desire to dance at the edge of extreme vulnerability and exposure. If there is a risk reduction in this type of paddling possible (for the solo paddler, especially) it comes from earning the right to be out there by working hard to acquire the ability to handle the unexpected and keep a level head. Being at peace with your Maker and having good life insurance helps. And don't be a do-or-die dweeb. Back off if it feels all wrong or if you are loosing touch with reality. You and your kayak can only survive so much abuse. That applies to one's spirit too. But do be careful, the full-facial grins garnered on day-long sorties can crack sunburnt lips and cause irregular tan lines between your cheeks and eyebrows. Such are the hazards on my west coast. :-) By the way, clapotis rarely gets you airborn. The down-plash of the wave can implode sprayskirts; keeping your arms in the classic tighter box of shoulder-injury prevention is a good idea, and make sure everything on you deck is secure. Don't be a rookie! Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What a NICE shot! Love it! Jackie Brian Curtiss wrote: >The colliding waves off Cape Lookout looked something like this: >http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6931/wallpaperlj4.jpg *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Jun 16, 2008, at 4:01 PM, Steve Holtzman wrote: > Has anybody else ever been in ocean conditions where waves were > breaking on > you from two directions at once? > Not quite ocean but the mouth of rivers off Savannah, GA USA often have waves that wrap around the shoulders of the mouth of the river and bonk into each other in interesting ways. Most local coast waves aren't very linear and so you kind of get hit with swelly, chunky stuff but its still fun to get double teamed. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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