on another forum I visit, the "Radar Flag" reflector was posted. I went to the site, had a look and purchased one designed for kayakers, I thought I would pass it along http://www.radarflag.com/ProductDisplay.cfm?ProductID=Kayak home page http://www.radarflag.com/ just thought you all might be interested Mike San Rafael, CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike Euritt wrote: > on another forum I visit, the "Radar Flag" reflector was posted. I went > to the site, had a look and purchased one designed for kayakers, I > thought I would pass it along > > http://www.radarflag.com/ProductDisplay.cfm?ProductID=Kayak This item has been reviewed, right here, in comparison with other types of reflectors: http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_2.htm#Radar%20Flag It is rated as equivalent to "four ducks," explained here: http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/radar_reflector_test.htm#INDEX [excerpt] > One thing that helps put everything into perspective is to consider that > the radar return from a typical duck is about 0.1 m2, so our 1 m2 > reference sphere can be also described as 10 duck units, or 10 dus. Not > very big. So having properly introduced the technically hip decibel > units, we will now go on and talk about things we can visualize, like > square meters and duck units. Everyone understands that, when it comes > to radar reflectors, more ducks is better. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I guess this would be a good time to talk about the ability of radar to see (or "paint") a kayak in various conditions and from various vessels. There are four major factors involved in seeing kayaks from radar equipped vessels: 1. Sea state; 2. Radar power, state of tuning, and antenna location and orientation; 3. The "coefficient of reflectivity" of the kayak; and, 4. The attention factor of the radar observer. In simple terms, the higher the waves the more difficult it is for a radar system to "see" a kayak - or virtually any vessel less than about 50 feet. Once the wind starts creating whitecaps and blown spray - all of which attenuate electromagnetic signals at microwave frequencies - things get appreciably worse. This is due, in part, to the extremely tiny wavelength of radar signals. These wavelengths are so tiny that they are scattered by the water droplets in the spray so that relatively few of those that are reflected by any object sitting low in the water make it back to the radar antenna to be displayed on the screen. And it has to be displayed on the screen for someone to see it. Another problem with a higher sea state is that operators tend to turn down the sensitivity of the radar in order to reduce "clutter" or noise. Most radar observers are really looking for other ships not kayaks, and the noise caused by the whitecaps and spray can be reduced without causing any appreciable loss in sensitivity required to detect ships. Detecting kayaks, on the other hand, gets lost completely. And remember that your kayak has to rise on a wave exactly at the moment the radar antenna (rotating happily on the radar mast) is pointed exactly at you. Twenty years ago all ships carried radio officers who also maintained the radar equipment (and, in fact, carried special endorsements on their FCC licenses showing that they were qualified to do it). Radar sets are both transmitters and receivers and those systems can be tuned for maximum power output and sensitivity, respectively. The feedlines to the antennas from the radar units also needed regular maintenance. Today, partly because of satellite systems, ship operators no longer are required to carry radio officers and so any maintenance of the systems gets done on an ad hoc basis whenever the ship is in port. It's safe to say that, in general, virtually no radar system on any civilian vessel is in top tune any more. The upside is that because of advances in technology, the systems are not as sensitive to being out of tune as they used to be. But it's still a factor; especially on vessels with older radar units. It should go without saying (but I'm going to say it anyway) that a kayak has to reflect more microwaves back to the radar antenna than its surroundings. This is a bigger challenge than you'd think. Even steel 50-foot sailboats do not paint a good target on a radar display when the sea is full of whitecaps. Fiberglass, wood, or SOF kayaks are a good deal less reflective than steel sailboats. Figure it out for yourself. Adding a radar reflector is probably not a bad idea as long as it doesn't create an issue with handling the kayak. But I think that adding a mast and reflector to a boat that is paddled by hand with no keel and no ballast has to create some issues; especially in the sorts of conditions in which you'd actually want a ship to see you. I suppose I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so. And finally the part over which no one has any control. Like the tree falling in the forest, even if the radar return of your kayak paints a perfect blip on the radar display if there is no one sees it then it's not going to do you any good. Once a ship is out of the harbor and on course at sea there is usually only one person on duty and on watch on the bridge; even on 900 foot tankers displacing over 50,000 tons this is generally the case. The mate on watch has a bunch of duties and even though keeping a visual watch is the most important of all of them, it still has to take its place in the queue of things to do. The mate divides his time between checking the ship's position, looking for traffic in all directions, checking the course (usually set by autopilot) and speed, and checking the radar. Inside harbors there are many more people on the bridge (pilot, Captain, mate on watch, and able seaman on watch (and usually on the wheel steering) but there is much more to do and maybe even less time for anyone to actually look for a kayak. After all, they're often under a vessel traffic system and assuming that any traffic of consequence would be reported to them over the radio. However, because these are often more protected waters, there is at least a better chance of your kayak being painted on the radar display. That display is likely to be the CAS (Collision Avoidance System) which gives them an indication of where every target on the display is now in real time and also a prediction of where they will be in 5 or 10 minutes (as selected by the officer on watch). Call me a cynic, but I don't worry about a radar reflector on my kayak (or power boat). I carried a Davis radar reflector hard-mounted on the spreaders of our cruising sailboat because it's the best possible reflector (still) and affected sailing performance of the yacht not at all. It probably didn't help much, but at least it didn't hurt. I cannot imagine any radar reflector on a kayak that wouldn't create some sort of handling issue. My advice is to keep a careful watch both ahead and astern using your eyes and ears (both required by the rules of the road, by the way - which basically means listening to your ipod is going to affect your liability in the event of an incident), stay out of vessel transit lanes and off the center lines of any ranges, and try to visualize where ships and boats are going and either stay away from those places or be on high alert. It's like the guy who broke his arm in two places; the doctor told him to stay out of those places. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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>From 30 years of "practical factors" in the Navy (US), I'd like to suggest two additions to Craig's list factors involved in kayak visibility. It goes without saying that the desired effect is that "the ship" will image the kayak on its radar and then either avoid it, signal to it or rescue it, I suppose. But all the technology in the world will not enable this outcome if the operator and the radar aren't actively looking for something that the operator would otherwise consider clutter, and mask out -- and that can be technological masking or mental masking. As Craig mentions, ships are looking for ships, and probably ships bigger than their ship. (Or fixed "ships" -- as in the old joke about the ship's mate who is arguing about right of way with the operator of Barnegat Light -- an old lighthouse station in New Jersey.) So the true visibility factor is much more than technical: it's about priorities, and the ship heading your way is probably more concerned about maneuvering around Barnegat Light than he is about avoiding your 18 foot kayak -- whether or not he sees it. Right of way is a relative term. That leads to another suggested addition: the ship may paint you on radar, the captain or crew may see you, but they may not be able to avoid you. (See right of way being a relative term, above.) Therefore, radar flags or reflectors are nice to have, but they may give an artificial feeling of safety. About the only way a kayaker will be "seen" on radar is with a radar transponder like a RaCon -- usually on fixed structures or nav aids -- or a SART -- a search and rescue transponder: these units magnify the return of a radar signal, and encode data in some cases. But they are special use devices, with RaCon inappropriate for our use and SART to be used only in a true emergency. As Craig indicated, if it hurts when you do "that", don't do "that." Jack "Joq" Martin -----Original Message----- From: Craig Jungers I guess this would be a good time to talk about the ability of radar to see (or "paint") a kayak in various conditions and from various vessels. There are four major factors involved in seeing kayaks from radar equipped vessels: 1. Sea state; 2. Radar power, state of tuning, and antenna location and orientation; 3. The "coefficient of reflectivity" of the kayak; and, 4. The attention factor of the radar observer. (item 4 was not spotted in a quick moderator review to remove 115 lines of top quoted text) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Martin, Jack <martin.jack_at_solute.us> wrote: > From 30 years of "practical factors" in the Navy (US), I'd like to > suggest two additions to Craig's list factors involved in kayak > visibility. Jack Martin's cogent and thoughtful reply deserves further discussion. > That leads to another suggested addition: the ship may paint you on > radar, the captain or crew may see you, but they may not be able to > avoid you. (See right of way being a relative term, above.) I have discovered that kayakers generally display an ignorance of the Rules of the Road (http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm for the USA) rivaled only by jet ski operators. If you, as a kayaker, are shocked by that statement then please read on. In the USA (at least) there are two regulatory agencies which define the use of waterways; the Federal Government in the form of the USCG and individual state police departments. It turns out that the rules of one don't exactly match the rules of the other. Some states have seen fit to alter the Rules when applied to inland waters not under the regulatory authority of the USCG; these are generally inland lakes and rivers not considered to be "navigable". Under USCG Rules (Rule 18, read it) there is no such thing as a kayak (or any "hand-powered vessel") having automatic right-of-way over any other vessel. So if you've been operating under that assumption as you paddle in and out of your harbor then you have been operating under a mistaken assumption. (In fact, you might actually have been liable for a violation of the USCG Rule 13... see below.) Some states specifically *do* give automatic right-of-way to hand-operated vessels in their own rules. But if you've read this and applied it to your paddling, please remember that if you are paddling on waters under authority of the USCG those individual state laws are not applicable. Confusing, huh? It gets worse. Under USCG Rules a hand-operated vessel moving on the water at night must only carry a light with which to signal another vessel in the event of a collision. A mounted light of any sort is not required. But several states *do* require one. Specifically, and especially in the Northeastern USA, there is a requirement for a white light visible for two miles all around be displayed from kayaks, canoes and rowboats while being operated at night on lakes and rivers not under USCG jurisdiction. So, what do you do? If you're a prudent paddler you'll google for the boating rules for your state and for any state you visit as long as you remember that these state rules only apply to waters which the USCG does not have authority upon. In general, if there are buoys and navigation aids on the water then it's likely that the USCG Rules apply. If it's an inland lake (like Moses Lake - where I live) then it's likely that the state laws apply. If you don't know, and get into an accident then you could be held liable for causing the accident or have confusion during the investigation of the accident which denies you justice (see Sea Kayaker Magazine for June 2008). There are several USCG Rules which I believe are often ignored by kayakers. One is Rule 5 which I'll quote here: "Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by *sight and hearing* as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." If you love to paddle listening to your ipod then you are violating Rule 5. 'Nuff said. Another is Rule 9, the applicable part of which I'll quote below: "(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length<http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/pops/def_3ij_length_bredth.htm>or a sailing vessel <http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/pops/def3c_sail_vsl.htm>shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway." What this means to you is probably different than what it means to the tugboat operator with a tow or the pilot of a ship. In simple terms, you have no right-of-way whatsoever over a ship operating where it cannot safely maneuver to avoid you. That means, given where most of us paddle kayaks, virtually everywhere. It takes a mile to stop a ship and it can take much longer to stop a tug and tow. While this probably doesn't apply to other pleasurecraft, it can under certain circumstances; such as within a marina and especially if the powerboat in question is large (over 20 meters). What rights do you have as a paddler? Basically no rights that any other pleasure power boat has. (If you have a sail up then that changes things, however.) Because we don't paddle as fast as power boats can move, the Rule most violated by *them* is Rule 13 which covers "overtaking". Part "d" is quoted below: "d) Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear." This means that, for a power boat operator approaching your kayak from the rear, nothing you do can relieve that operator of the duty to keep away from you until it is well past and "clear". This Rule once had a clause which said that the vessel being overtaken must maintain course and speed but that no longer applies (although many people often "remember" it). I still don't think it's wise to paddle up the middle of the Range, but if you stray into the channel pleasure boats approaching you from the rear must stay clear. In closing, I'd like to mention one more often misunderstood "rule": smaller vessels have the right-of-way over larger vessels. This is absolutely NOT true under USCG Rules but it may be true in some states on waters not under USCG authority. I would advise never operating under the assumption that it's true, however. Caveat boater, Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. 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I like to generally follow my homemade rule of keep to the edges. It works for me in my home waters. I would not expect others to follow it. Paddlers making really interesting crossings in the Great Lakes and off the West coast of the US should keep doing those interesting things. I simply have no need to go out much further than I can swim. Coastal Georgia USA is a maze of interesting places that are rarely separated by more than a few hundred feet of open water. I am learning to sail and my mentor impressed upon me that one of the wiser things you can do on the water is to be predictable to other vessels. Make your heading visibly known so others can react accordingly. Smiling doesn't hurt either. Kayakers must be self promoters. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:14 AM, James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: > I like to generally follow my homemade rule of keep to the edges. I also like to keep to the edges (especially at night) but do find it necessary now and then to traverse longer passages. Nevertheless, I find it is easier on my stress levels to try to stay away from where the larger powerboats play if possible. And Steve's "yield to gross tonnage" is a good basic rule. Almost everything out there has more gross tonnage than we do. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/23/2008 11:36:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, crjungers_at_gmail.com writes: There are several USCG Rules which I believe are often ignored by kayakers. One is Rule 5 which I'll quote here: craig..... good response..... but the "rule" that i live by.... both sailing and kayaking..... is that i .... "Yield to Gross Tonnage" steve **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Snip > And Steve's "yield to gross tonnage" is a good basic rule. Almost > everything > out there has more gross tonnage than we do. > > Craig Hey, some folks kayak's have gross tonnage too. As do some paddlers I know... Doug L (running for cover) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Therefore, radar flags or reflectors are nice to have, but they may give an artificial feeling of safety. I ordered one of those radar flags, not so much because I thought it would be the security of being seen with radar, being on a tralwer list, I am well aware of how limited radar is on most pleasure boats, and not necessarily by the electronics, most pleasure boat operators have no idea how to use it, if it is even turned on. I bought it because it looked like it would increase visibility for both my kayak and my row boat in the confines of Richardson Bay, among all the anchor outs, and if it happens to light up a radar screen, so much the better. Except in perfect conditions, we are pretty invisible, like a bike on a country road. Seems like most everywhere I paddle is shallow, and getting back into the Loch Lomond Marina near my home, a kayak has to use the same dredged channel as the biggest sailboat at lower tides, so I don't always have the option to stay near the edges, as was posted recently on this thread. I have always navigated the water with the notion that the gross tonnage rule, or "might makes right" on the top of my list, but I also add "don't mess with another's income" which means stay clear of working vessels, such as the small boat setting crab pots, or maybe it was something to do with clams on my last trip out to Tomales Bay. He was working in the same sheltered conditions I was looking for. Mike San Rafael, CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:37 AM, Mike Euritt <sixteenfeet_at_sbcglobal.net> wrote: Mike's post on was the genesis of the thread about visibility. Unfortunately, we got waylaid by the word "radar" and while we were all going down that road Mike brought us back to the freeway by explaining that there are other reasons for flying a flag on a pole from your kayak. I bought it because it looked like it would increase visibility for both my > kayak and my > row boat in the confines of Richardson Bay, among all the anchor outs, and > if > it happens to light up a radar screen, so much the better. Except in > perfect > conditions, we are pretty invisible, like a bike on a country road. The thread did more-or-less degenerate into a discussion about visibility on radar screens but under some conditions having a flag flying - radar reflective or not - can be an excellent idea. I always feel vulnerable when crossing an area infested with power boats. I know they often outpace the abilities of their drivers. I just wish I knew how visible we are from float planes landing on Seattle's Lake Union. Maybe a dozen balloons on a 50-foot string would make the pilot of a Beaver think again about cutting it close. (They're actually better than the power boats but it can give you quite a start when they are wave-hopping right towards you.) > Seems like most everywhere I paddle is shallow, and getting back into the > Loch > Lomond Marina near my home, a kayak has to use the same dredged channel as > the > biggest sailboat at lower tides, so I don't always have the option to stay > near the edges, as was posted recently on this thread. > This is the sort of scenario that would make me ultra-cautious as well. And I'm glad you mentioned "sailboat" because they are so often steered from the very back of the boat and with the high bow on so many sailboats the ability of the pilot to see a kayak in close confines is minimized. It's like the flag so many states require of off-road-vehicles when playing in sand dunes. There are times when a paddler needs every "edge" (s)he can get. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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