This link ( http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=345006&sc=79 ) tells most of the story. A short paddle gone very wrong due to weather and waves. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote: >This link ( http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=345006&sc=79 ) tells >most of the story. A short paddle gone very wrong due to weather and waves. G'day That's a sad story. Thirteen hours in and out of the water is a remarkable struggle. The Bai Verte Peninsula area from Google Earth looks to have some quite sheltered areas. Does anyone know if they were paddling the kind of location that seems deceptively innocuous and where one might not normally take comm.'s devices: flares, smokes, PLB, VHF? If its as remote and 'mountainous as it looks perhaps only the PLB would have been effective but they could maybe have saved him and spared the rescue helicopter such a long search. All the best, Petero *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I still don't understand fully, nor can I comprehend the notion that anyone would consider the ocean as innocuos. Maybe temporarily doable for someone lacking the skills and backup but then these are the folks who are proped-up by those who poo-poo skills and equipment, rather trusting good judgment and common sense. At the end of the day, it takes all of the above -- or it just might be a very long day indeed, with a tragic outcome. Don't know the paddling environment out there, but it was still a relevant question Peter; it's just that the ocean is never safe where easily-accessed recreational activity intersects with an always potentially dangerous environment (ie, one subject to sudden or quickly worsing change). Doug Lloyd > Craig wrote: > >This link ( > http://www.thetelegram.com/index.cfm?sid=345006&sc=79 ) tells > >most of the story. A short paddle gone very wrong due to > weather and waves. > > G'day > > That's a sad story. Thirteen hours in and out of the water is a > remarkablestruggle. The Bai Verte Peninsula area from Google > Earth looks to have some > quite sheltered areas. Does anyone know if they were paddling > the kind of > location that seems deceptively innocuous and where one might > not normally > take comm.'s devices: flares, smokes, PLB, VHF? If its as remote and > 'mountainous as it looks perhaps only the PLB would have been > effective but > they could maybe have saved him and spared the rescue helicopter > such a long > search. > > All the best, Petero *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This link gives a little more information: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2010/06/26/kayakers-search-missing-626.html This article clarifies a few things. The pair, who both live in Michigan, launched from Coachman's Cover on the northern coast of Newfoundland around midnight and the CCG launched a search when the surviving paddler triggered a "beacon" (PLB?) at 6am the next morning. The CCG was searching near the Horse Islands which are 40 miles north of their launch point. Weather when they launched was clear with a bright moon but conditions worsened towards morning. Hard to pinpoint any obvious reason for this tragedy other than paddling in new waters always presents more of a risk than paddling where you are familiar with weather patterns. An expert paddler in one area may be not much more than a newbie in others. Paddling new waters at night only increases the risk. It's *much* more difficult to detect oncoming bad weather at night than it is during daylight hours. No mention of the kayaks they were in but that might have played a part as well. Only one of them kept capsizing and it would be interesting to know whether he was in a boat that was beyond his abilities. They did have a beacon and perhaps triggering that earlier would have helped. Both men were older (60s) and apparently the lost kayaker did not have a roll. Even so, having a roll might not have saved him as even rolling takes effort and nothing drains you of energy as quickly as being window-shaded in cold water. I'm not sure what a "semi drysuit" is. My understanding of a semi drytop is a top that doesn't seal as well at the neck and wrists. Two hours in cold water in a suit that was leaking water does not sound like fun to me. Caveat paddler. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote >I still don't understand fully, nor can I comprehend the notion that anyone would consider the ocean as innocuous. Completely agree Doug' Problem is that people can be easily misled by an area that looks calm and protected by cliffs, and where the real trouble is just around a headland. So yes I totally agree about never thinking of the ocean as innocuous. Looking at Google earth the Baie Verte Peninsula area to the north has coastline near access roads that could be problematic should the wind push a boat out of the bay; considering the currents that might circulate around and between islands. Further into the inlet to the south, looks safer but perhaps there are hidden hazards associated with landform, wind gusts and tidal currents? I can imagine inexperienced kayakers getting into difficulties as they find their way half down that inlet to the ocean and turn a corner into a region with non landable stretches and perhaps an offshore wind. I've just seen Craig's email and Coachman's cove is the northern section, also they did have a beacon. The conflicting reports on their paddling times have me confused about how soon they set off the beacon and whether there were many hours before the helicopter spotted the boats despite the fact they were just a mile from the beach. Night time conditions could explains a protracted search or maybe the beacon didn't have GPS capability and they were trying to find a kayak within a km or two radius rather than a 100m radius that beacons fitted with GPS are said to offer. All the best and thanks Craig for the additional information, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:20 AM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > > > I've just seen Craig's email and Coachman's cove is the northern section, > also they did have a beacon. The conflicting reports on their paddling > times > have me confused about how soon they set off the beacon and whether there > were many hours before the helicopter spotted the boats despite the fact > they were just a mile from the beach. Night time conditions could explains > a > protracted search or maybe the beacon didn't have GPS capability and they > were trying to find a kayak within a km or two radius rather than a 100m > radius that beacons fitted with GPS are said to offer. > > According to all the info I have read they began their trip shortly after midnight on a clear night with a bright moon. Once they got out of protected waters they discovered that the sea was worse than they thought and turned back. At some point the one kayaker began to capsize and had to re-enter several times. When the missing paddler became too exhausted to attempt any more re-entries he hung onto the back of the surviving paddler's kayak; reportedly for up to "2 hours". At 6am one of them activated a "beacon" of some sort which launched a search. This area of Newfoundland is far enough north that by 5am there would be full daylight (and probably earlier). I wonder why they waited so long to activate that beacon. Perhaps the two were lulled into some sense of being able to make it to shore between the time there was daylight and the 6am activation of the "beacon" (whatever sort of beacon that was). Or maybe they just forgot they had it along. Activating that beacon earlier might have made a big difference. Age could also be a factor. I'm in my 60s and I am certainly aware of increasing limitations on what I can do and how long I can do it. But if I'm feeling particularly good it's easy to forget. No one knows if they checked the weather but it's quite likely that the weather that seems to have cause all their problems may have been "local" and not even appeared on any forecasts. Since the CCG was concentrating their search around the islands 40nm to the north of where they launched I'm tempted to believe that they paddled into a southerly fed by cold air aloft that swept them away from their launch site and out to sea to the north and those islands. Probably not any one problem or mistake but a series of problems or errors that led to the tragedy of one paddler losing his life. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
PeterO wrote: "Night time conditions could explains a protracted search or maybe the beacon didn't have GPS capability and they were trying to find a kayak within a km or two radius rather than a 100m radius that beacons fitted with GPS are said to offer." ----- A long time ago -- just after they invented lift -- I was a CSAR helicopter pilot in the U.S. Navy. For all kayakers who count on "beacons" -- even the most sophisticated GPS-capable EPIRBs out there -- as our last line of defense: think again. Yes, basic EPIRBs can triangulate to a pretty small piece of water, and GPS can get down to meters, but those rescue pilots and aircrew still have to identify you from a lot of choppy, busy water. From 100 meters up, it ain't easy. Yes, thermal imagery can do amazing things and night vision goggles can be the playmaker for Coast Guard and Navy helo crews, but not all search aircraft or vessels are going to be equally equipped. It's very hard to separate a lot of confusing background from a human head or a kayak hull -- which may be periodically masked -- with the Mark I eyeball. It's like with the right-of-way discussions we have occasionally: guess what, to most ships and larger vessesls, we ain't there! So, while we review the advantages of different kinds of EPIRBs, let's not forget that the "last mile" of SAR is the human in the cockpit or the cabin identifying the survivor from the "noise" and maintaining visual contact on him/her on a sustained basis to affect a rescue. How we make ourselves visually viable is a subject for another thread -- and anyone who remembers the old days of PaddleWise will remember my rants on visual signals and passive visibility -- but it sorta lines up with our discussion of EPIRBs and the tragic loss of another kayaker. Did I ever mention the time I had to airlift an injured crewman from the deck of a nuclear submarine on the surface in hazy early morning light in the Med? It wasn't the crewman we couldn't see -- it was the bloody submarine we were in radio contact with that we couldn't find! Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joq said: Mark I eyeball... still have to identify you from a lot of choppy, busy water. I'm 7 days away from buying a small PLB (with GPS, a McMurdo Fastfind 210) for our trip to Alaska's outside coast - so this all has a certain resonance for me ;-) Can you shed any light on the claims made by the makers of the current crop of small personal beacons (EPIRBs & PLBs - not SPOT) that SAR can/will use the units' secondary 121.5 MHz locating signal - "they use the position and 121.5MHz to home in on you." The primary beacon transmissions are on 406 MHz (to the COSPAS-SARSAT satellite system) and they receive on the GPS frequencies (from the GPS satellites) - so the 121.5 MHz signals seem to have no other purpose than as a 'homing' function for that last few 10's or 100's of meters in the rescue process. That's assuming that the last GPS fix and 406 message (received by SAR through the satellite linkage) has pinned down your location to within that same limit of 10's of meters if very fresh - or 100's of meters if somewhat stale and there is significant drift... So what is there in the SAR cockpit that says 'go left' or 'go back' as the pilot homes in on a 121.5 MHz signal over a black ocean ? Is that the time for a hand-held flare (pyrotechnic or laser) or LED torch, or do you stand out on his LCD screen like a 'flare' (of 121.5 radio transmission) anyway ? Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Paul Hayward <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz> wrote: > > So what is there in the SAR cockpit that says 'go left' or 'go back' as the > pilot homes in on a 121.5 MHz signal over a black ocean ? > That's a good question since technology has changed a lot over the past 10 years and I'm not familiar with all of the changes. However at one time an "IFR" cockpit would have had an Automatic Direction Finder (ADF) as part of its standard equipment. Many airports had nothing but ADF approaches (with the minimums raised). Today, with relatively inexpensive GPS units, and almost ubiquitous GPS approaches, I'm not sure that an ADF would be that usual. The ADF is a radio that can be tuned to the normal aviation channels and is coupled to an indicator that is basically an arrow (similar to a compass) that points toward the signal (or away from it - sometimes the trick is how to know which way to the source). One of the channels it can be tuned to is, of course, 121.5Mhz. However an ADF does not tell you how far away the "beacon" (or whatever signal it's tuned to) is from you and generally you only know you've gone over it when the needle suddenly swaps ends. One trick is to fly at right angles to the signal and see how quickly the bearing to the source changes. If it changes quickly you are close. A helicopter, with its ability to fly slowly, probably could home in on a beacon transmitting on 121.5. Joq probably has a better insight to this. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Craig - that is about what I thought - for the use of a standard ADF set. However, with modern processors, I'm sure I could breadboard something with some smarts to look at recent history (10s or 100s of seconds) and use quite small heading changes to range-find and display the 'target' beacon on a Lat-Long grid on-screen (as well as the chopper's position). It would, of course, become progressively more accurate with more seconds of data and could then make a pretty good guess at any absolute drift of the beacon. Usually I have these brilliant concepts - only to discover that somebody else has been marketing the widget for years ;-) There was a Hollywood film out a few years back about CG SAR using choppers - but I didn't see it. Perhaps there was something in that, or someone with more recent SAR experience. Best Regards Paul From: Craig Jungers [mailto:crjungers_at_gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2010 15:05 To: pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz Cc: Martin, Jack; PeterO; Doug Lloyd; Paddlewise Paddlewise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] RE: Michigan Paddler Lost on a Newfoundland Paddle trip On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Paul Hayward <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz> wrote: So what is there in the SAR cockpit that says 'go left' or 'go back' as the pilot homes in on a 121.5 MHz signal over a black ocean ? That's a good question since technology has changed a lot over the past 10 years and I'm not familiar with all of the changes. However at one time an "IFR" cockpit would have had an Automatic Direction Finder (ADF) as part of its standard equipment. Many airports had nothing but ADF approaches (with the minimums raised). Today, with relatively inexpensive GPS units, and almost ubiquitous GPS approaches, I'm not sure that an ADF would be that usual. The ADF is a radio that can be tuned to the normal aviation channels and is coupled to an indicator that is basically an arrow (similar to a compass) that points toward the signal (or away from it - sometimes the trick is how to know which way to the source). One of the channels it can be tuned to is, of course, 121.5Mhz. However an ADF does not tell you how far away the "beacon" (or whatever signal it's tuned to) is from you and generally you only know you've gone over it when the needle suddenly swaps ends. One trick is to fly at right angles to the signal and see how quickly the bearing to the source changes. If it changes quickly you are close. A helicopter, with its ability to fly slowly, probably could home in on a beacon transmitting on 121.5. Joq probably has a better insight to this. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote A helicopter, with its ability to fly slowly, probably could home in on a beacon transmitting on 121.5. Joq probably has a better insight to this. Nope -- your insight is right on the money, Craig. It's possible for a SAR helo -- or a fixed wing rescue aircraft -- to fly its "number one" needle in automatic direction finding (ADF) mode to the signal source and mark "on top" when the needle swings erratically and eventually points to the reciprocal heading. The signal should be somewhere close to that point. "Close" is the operative word, here. There's a fairly substantial cone of ambiguity above a signal like an EPIRB (emergency position-indicating radio beacon). But, for practical purposes, that kind of approach to SAR has been supplanted by the international COSPAS-SARSAT system (Search and Rescue Satellite-Aided Tracking in France, Canada and the U.S., with COSPAS being the equivalent acronym in Russian) where an EPIRB transmits a coded, digital 406 MHz signal when a vessel is in distress; this signal is received by a set of geostationary and polar-orbital satellites which work together to specifically identify and localize the activated EPIRB. The satellites, in conjunction with a ground station, create a GPS address for the signal, and send messages to SAR centers which then task an operations center that, in turn, launches a ready aircraft. Depending on the distances involved, this may be a fixed wing aircraft or a helicopter -- frequently both. Essentially, that's all a SAR bird gets these days -- a fly-to point at a specific GPS address; some launches result from radio calls or from reports from shore observers, but that's a visual solution for the pilots. (Note: some 406 MHz beacons also report their GPS location, enhancing and accelerating a SAR solution.) The older 121.5 MHz beacons are no longer monitored by COSPAS-SARSAT, although a rescue aircraft can still home in on a broadcasting 121.5 (or 243) MHz EPIRB. The information provided either by a COSPAS-SARSAT solution or an observation or distress call gets you close to the survivor. Or right on top of a survivor. But that last bit can be the hardest. Seeing a person -- even a kayak hull -- in all that confusing background is hard. For that, many -- maybe most -- Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard SAR flight crews launching at night use night vision goggle (NVG) equipment to see the thermal contrasts created by a person in cooler water. But that's another story. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joq & Craig Thanks for this information guys - all too often, the magic that goes on behind the scenes is hidden and we lose the opportunity to understand the operation of devices like emergency beacons. Jog, I'm more aware of the Southern (Pacific) Ocean satellite frequency - that is relevant down here in NZ - but our people advise that there may be a 30 minute delay before beacon info is captured by a SARSAT satellite and passed to a ground station. That is simply a fact-of-life resulting from when a satellite may be passing overhead - 30 minutes is worst-case. So, if the flow of 406 info is not continuous to SAR, and the beacon is drifting (wind or tide), then there will be some error in the target position (with which the SAR aircraft is working). So, sometimes, the SAR will arrive overhead target - with a SARSAT satellite in position to give up-to-the-minute GPS co-ordinates (from the beacon) - and sometimes the satellite will be over the horizon and the aircraft will be working on old position info - the last known position when the satellite 'set' below the horizon. I believe that the 406 signal is not currently decoded in the SAR aircraft - it is only handled via the sat-link - so the GPS co-ordinates will be as old (stale) as the last SARSAT satellite pass. I had assumed that it was in this scenario (of stale GPS data) when the 121.5 MHz beacon would come into play - to overcome any drift in that 30 minutes. Once in position where the aircraft's ADF says the 121.5 beacon is 'right here somewhere', I guess the NV gear and Mk 1 Human Eyeball come into play as the best available sensor ;-) As I can't carry flares with me, flying up to Vancouver from Auckland next week - or indeed on the AMHS ferries going up to SE Alaska, I've been considering my options to help that last 'eyeball' phase of the search (that I sincerely trust will never eventuate;-) As far as I know, neither Canadian nor American safety regs require me to carry flares in a sub-6m kayak - but I always have them in my PFD in New Zealand - so it will feel funny not to have them in Alaska. It's also a pity to buy them & throw them away after 3 weeks... I've studied the Magnum Laser Flare for a while - but there seems to be absolutely no move by any regulators to 'accredit' them as equivalent to a pyrotechnic flare - not even for night use. There seems, if anything, to be a tailing off in enthusiasm (judged by the number of outfits selling them) since the surge of interest 4-5 years ago. I may find out more about this in Alaska - as I believe this is where they originated and where SAR did the testing to prove they were completely OK for pilot vision - and that they were pretty effective. I think they got over all those hurdles - but they don't seem to have caught on. The little PLB unit (that I'm going to buy) has a LED emergency white light, which should give sufficient visibility (at night). By day, assuming our VHFs are still working, a VHF talk-through with the aircraft is always going to be helpful - and may be better than any visible signal in SE Alaska's well-known low-viz daylight... However, one comforting thing in an emergency situation is a some redundancy. Weakest links chose the damndest times to break... Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm not sure that's not their true life expectancy! Anyone I know who has tried their flares close to expiration, has seemed to find them working much less than 50/50. Mark On 7/8/2010 7:28 PM, Paul Hayward wrote: > Joq& Craig > > It's also a pity to buy them& throw them away after 3 weeks... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Someone mentioned using reflective tape to aid in a rescue at sea. Let me add that not just "reflective" tape but "retro-reflective" or "solas" tape is what you want for good visibility at night. Retro-reflective tape actually reflects more light back to the source of light (instead of just off in all directions) which makes it much easier to spot you in the nastiness of a storm at sea. Put it on your kayak so that it can also be visible if the boat is inverted and on your person so that the parts of you (shoulders and feet) that tend to be above the water (or near the surface) have it. Plus on your wrists to further accentuate the frantic arm waving you're going to be doing. Solas tape is not easy to find. I had to locate it on the Internet. It's also rather spendy. Still worth it. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig said, "Someone mentioned using reflective tape to aid in a rescue at sea. Let me add that not just "reflective" tape but "retro-reflective" or "solas" tape is what you want for good visibility at night. Retro-reflective tape actually reflects more light back to the source of light (instead of just off in all directions) which makes it much easier to spot you in the nastiness of a storm at sea. PeterO also commented on retroreflective tape. And I agree -- it has an important place in any kind of night kayaking, whether you're out in the harbor or in extremis at sea. The limitation is that it's just a shiny stripe during daylight -- neutral value -- and, at night, it has to be illuminated by a light source near or behind an observer to have any visibility value. In other words, someone with a good light source has to be scanning the area in which the kayaker is located with a beam of light. At that point, you're a Christmas tree to the observer -- so major plusses for retro-tape. But if it's dark and there's no illumination coming from a passing vessel, chances are you're still just clutter to the observer. That's where flares and strobes come in. Smoke/flare markers are great -- and they give an approaching helicopter a good wind line to set up his approach, too. Strobes -- well, they're great. My primary strobe is the same light I had on my vest in Viet Nam in 1968. New ACR battery, but same light. It's brilliant! ACR and others are readily available at boat supply houses -- and I've found the same to be the case for SOLAS grade tape, too, unlike Craig's experience. The other element of visibility that I'm big on is flourescent paint on paddle blades. A "road crew" flourescent yellow tee shirt doesn't hurt, either. Don't understand the physical properties of flourescent paint or material, but I do know that even a small patch of that stuff will pull you out of the visual clutter immediately and definitely. Try it! Yellow is best, apparently, but you can go pink or green if that floats your boat. Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
SOLAS tape is readily available on eBay. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:28 +1200, "Paul Hayward" <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz> wrote: ... > As I can't carry flares with me, flying up to Vancouver from Auckland > next week - or indeed on the AMHS ferries going up to SE Alaska, I've > been considering my options to help that last 'eyeball' phase of the > search (that I sincerely trust will never eventuate;-) > > As far as I know, neither Canadian nor American safety regs require me > to carry flares in a sub-6m kayak - but I always have them in my PFD > in New Zealand - so it will feel funny not to have them in Alaska. > > It's also a pity to buy them & throw them away after 3 weeks... Paul - As far as I can recall, flares are indeed required in any 'navigable' water in the US - that is, anyplace with Coast Guard jurisdiction including the Great Lakes, etc. There may be an exemption for human-powered boats during the day. I also seem to recall that the same is true in Canada, which also requires a 10 meter tow rope. My memory is a little hazy since I carry these all the time anyway. But don't leave shore at night without some sort of visual distress signal, I think they call it. Hopefully someone better informed will confirm or deny - Jennifer -- Jennifer Pivovar jpivovar_at_headwinds.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jennifer Pivovar wrote: > As far as I can recall, flares are indeed required in any 'navigable' > water in the US - that is, anyplace with Coast Guard jurisdiction > including the Great Lakes, etc. There may be an exemption for > human-powered boats during the day. You got it, Jennifer. Here's the scoop: http://www.boats.com/reeds/jsp/rn_ch_2_a.jsp#a4 I think we are "manually propelled boats." -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul, If you are thinking about carrying the "pencil hand held flares" forget it, they are worthless. I have tested them and found that most fail to fire. I highly recommend the pistol flares. I can pick one up for you here in Petersburg and give it to you when you come through on the ferry. Required or not I never paddle without flares or a VHS radio. bob petersburg alaska Jennifer Pivovar wrote: > On Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:28 +1200, "Paul Hayward" <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz> wrote: > ... > >> As I can't carry flares with me, flying up to Vancouver from Auckland >> next week - or indeed on the AMHS ferries going up to SE Alaska, I've >> been considering my options to help that last 'eyeball' phase of the >> search (that I sincerely trust will never eventuate;-) >> >> As far as I know, neither Canadian nor American safety regs require me >> to carry flares in a sub-6m kayak - but I always have them in my PFD >> in New Zealand - so it will feel funny not to have them in Alaska. >> >> It's also a pity to buy them & throw them away after 3 weeks... >> > > Paul - > > As far as I can recall, flares are indeed required in any 'navigable' > water in the US - that is, anyplace with Coast Guard jurisdiction > including the Great Lakes, etc. There may be an exemption for > human-powered boats during the day. I also seem to recall that the same > is true in Canada, which also requires a 10 meter tow rope. My memory > is a little hazy since I carry these all the time anyway. But don't > leave shore at night without some sort of visual distress signal, I > think they call it. > > Hopefully someone better informed will confirm or deny - > Jennifer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jennifer, Dave & Bob Thanks for the confirmations. I should have made it clear that I meant 'not required to carry' during daylight! At night, I believe the US does require 3 'night' flares, but I believe Canada exempts human-powered under 6-m from its requirements (for 6 flares). As the daylight hours in Alaska are currently from 04:20 to nearly 10 pm, I hope & expect to avoid paddling at night ;-) Here in NZ, I carry flares 'always' simply to prevent me ever forgetting them - and because I'm often visible to houses on-shore or to other boats. In most of the upcoming Alaskan paddling, I'm not expecting to see many people on the water - and none at all on land. So my primary Maydays are going to have to be electronic (VHF x2 & PLB). Bob, thanks for the offer of the flares. I completely agree with you - on the small ones being useless - I carry only the SOLAS ones. I think I've decided that we just won't bother with them (for the reasons in the para above). If we were required to carry flares and the Laser Flare was acceptable - it might push me to buy one (or one for each of us). But that doesn't seem like it will fly ;-) Best Regards Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joq wrote, >let's not forget that the "last mile" of SAR is the human in the cockpit or the cabin identifying the survivor from the "noise" >and maintaining visual contact on him/her on a sustained basis to affect a rescue. How we make ourselves visually viable is a subject >for another thread -- and anyone who remembers the old days of PaddleWise will remember my rants on visual signals and passive visibility G'Day Joq, Here's another thread to remember the old days and I seem to recall you making the point, amongst all the discussion of lights and strobes and such, that reflective tape was very visible, at least at night. Did I get that right? I've found a bright red hat to be easily seen over long distances but don't know what it would be like from a helicopter. In any case it would be good to hear your comments and advice again! A friend of mine attempted to cross Bass Strait and by his own admission the planning wasn't the best, but at the last moment he decided to take a VHF radio. Halfway across the first leg to Hogan Island he fell foul of shoals and heavy waves, came out and was unable to re-enter so called for help. Can't remember if he used a beacon, flares or VHF but I do recall him describing the helicopter hovering overhead then moving away to search another area. He used the VHF to guide them back. The crew confirmed they were having difficulty and the value of the VHF and his second attempt a year or two later was more carefully planned and successful. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think some of Craig's observations have merit. I did pick up on the age comment too. I was more wanting to rant for a second or two about the current state of paddling safety as illustrated in the incident - my opinion. I'm kind of preoccupied with weightier matters here on the home front with a sick spouse (so very, very up and down), so I didn't really think long and hard about the incident in question; thank you for some of your insightfulness. Doug Doug wrote >I still don't understand fully, nor can I comprehend the notion that anyone would consider the ocean as innocuous. Completely agree Doug' Problem is that people can be easily misled by an area that looks calm and protected by cliffs, and where the real trouble is just around a headland. So yes I totally agree about never thinking of the ocean as innocuous. Looking at Google earth the Baie Verte Peninsula area to the north has coastline near access roads that could be problematic should the wind push a boat out of the bay; considering the currents that might circulate around and between islands. Further into the inlet to the south, looks safer but perhaps there are hidden hazards associated with landform, wind gusts and tidal currents? I can imagine inexperienced kayakers getting into difficulties as they find their way half down that inlet to the ocean and turn a corner into a region with non landable stretches and perhaps an offshore wind. I've just seen Craig's email and Coachman's cove is the northern section, also they did have a beacon. The conflicting reports on their paddling times have me confused about how soon they set off the beacon and whether there were many hours before the helicopter spotted the boats despite the fact they were just a mile from the beach. Night time conditions could explains a protracted search or maybe the beacon didn't have GPS capability and they were trying to find a kayak within a km or two radius rather than a 100m radius that beacons fitted with GPS are said to offer. All the best and thanks Craig for the additional information, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote: >I was more wanting to rant for a second or two Definitely a worthwhile rant Doug' especially the comment "where an easily accessed recreational activity intersects with a dangerous environment". We have tragedies every year where a family drives to a beautiful and isolated beach near a small road and someone is killed in the surf and rips. Something that really puzzles me is that often its the kids that get into trouble then a parent attempts to rescue them, yet the kid somehow finds their way to safety and the parent dies. Don't have any statistically significant figures but there seems to be a pattern. Popular beaches often have a surf life saving club and/or marked areas to swim that are relatively safe, and those clubs also do a superb job in teaching kids water safety. Best wishes Doug' to you and your family, Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > I think some of Craig's observations have merit. I did pick up on the age > comment too. > Some????!!!! :P > > I was more wanting to rant for a second or two about the current state of > paddling safety as illustrated in the incident - my opinion. > I think your observations about the current state of paddling safety are right on; everything gets wrapped up in arguments about "gear" versus "skills". In my opinion it's both... plus the skill to know when the gear will save your ass. > > I'm kind of preoccupied with weightier matters here on the home front with > a > sick spouse (so very, very up and down), so I didn't really think long and > hard about the incident in question; thank you for some of your > insightfulness. > Our thoughts are with you, Doug. Stay strong. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA www.nwkayaking.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:20 AM, PeterO <rebyl_kayak_at_energysustained.com>wrote: > Doug wrote > >I still don't understand fully, nor can I comprehend the notion that > anyone > would consider the ocean as innocuous. > > > Completely agree Doug' > > Problem is that people can be easily misled by an area that looks calm and > protected by cliffs, and where the real trouble is just around a headland. > So yes I totally agree about never thinking of the ocean as innocuous. I've read several stories of kayakers getting in trouble with the winds off of Newfoundland and there are stretches of road there where even semi trucks have troubles with the wind from signs I've seen along the highways on the eastern coast of the Island. I was up there kayaking in '99 and remember driving past spots early in the day thinking that they'd be a great place to paddle and then, a few hours later, looking at white caps and wind that seemed to come from nowhere and deciding that it wasn't for me. I was inexperienced and alone, so very risk adverse. One article I read talks of 8' waves that came on quickly. Looking at the map, the Horse Islands were a long way from the shelter of the mainland. --Glenn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Glenn wrote: - > I've read several stories of kayakers getting in trouble with the winds > off of Newfoundland ................. > I was up there kayaking in '99 and remember driving past spots early > in the day thinking that they'd be a great place to paddle > and then, a few hours later, looking at white caps and wind that > seemed to come from nowhere and deciding that it wasn't for > me. Chuck wrote: > About 3 decades back, three highly trained paddlers went out somewhere along > the south coast of Newfoundland early one morning. > Not early enough! How high are the coastal mountains there? I don't remember > exactly, but they could be 1-2000 ft. In the morning, the winds roll off the > high uplands and fall down onto the ocean at great speed. That happened to > us once along the Gaspe peninsular where the sea cliffs are only about 500 > ft. You could see the wind puffs hit the water- cats paws! They were strong > enough to stop some of us in our tracks. G'Day Glenn and Chuck. Hard for me to imagine cliffs that high and what the wind rolling down them must be like. But your stories reminded me of one that Wayne Langmaid used to tell. Wayne was a Canadian who took up residence in Oz and used to run a kayaking outfit near Sydney as well as kayaking tours all over the world. He used to tell the story of a trip down to the fjords in the Seno D'Agostini National Park of Tierra del Fuego. On one of these trips it had been raining and blowing a gale for days on end. The tour group were going stir crazy on the mother ship and Wayne was just barely holding them together. Saturday dawned and it was sunny and calm, very warm, seductive. The fjord beckoned and the group held a briefing, lowered the kayaks and planned to explore it to within a discrete distance of the glacier calving at its end. Wayne was a bit nervous and so was the guide, considering the previous week of unsettled weather and the unnatural warmth, but it didn't seem justified to hold back. Then just at the entrance to the fjord Wayne felt the slightest puff of wind on his face. So did the local guide. They looked at each other talked for a few minutes and then Wayne pulled the plug on the trip. He told me that coping with the protests was the hardest exercise in group management and logical persuasion he'd ever had to carry out. But within an hour of the group returning to their yacht they were pitching and rolling in the wildest katabatic wind; people retching everywhere, no one disputing the decision and Wayne and the guide thankful that they weren't trying to find shelter either in or out of the fjord. Wayne had worked on the sea as a commercial diver and kayak tour guide all his life. He'd seen more than his share of bad situations and had a compelling way of using them to illustrate ideas on safety. I sometimes wonder if any of the Canadians on this list knew him. All the best, PeterO (A pittarak is apparently the Greenland name for a katabatic wind) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 13/07/2010 6:54 AM, PeterO wrote: > Glenn wrote: - >> I've read several stories of kayakers getting in trouble with the winds >> off of Newfoundland ................. >> I was up there kayaking in '99 and remember driving past spots early >> in the day thinking that they'd be a great place to paddle >> and then, a few hours later, looking at white caps and wind that >> seemed to come from nowhere and deciding that it wasn't for >> me. > Chuck wrote: >> About 3 decades back, three highly trained paddlers went out somewhere along the south coast of Newfoundland early one morning. Not early enough! How high are the coastal mountains there? I don't remember exactly, but they could be 1-2000 ft. In the morning, the winds roll off the high uplands and fall down onto the ocean at great speed. That happened to >> us once along the Gaspe peninsular where the sea cliffs are only about 500 ft. You could see the wind puffs hit the water- cats paws! They were strong enough to stop some of us in our tracks. > > G'Day Glenn and Chuck. > > Hard for me to imagine cliffs that high and what the wind rolling down them > must be like. But your stories reminded me of one that Wayne Langmaid used > to tell. Here's a web page that describes the "Wreckhouse Winds", which is what they are called in that particular corner of Newfoundland. http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/almanac/arc2005/alm05dec.htm When I was last there, having caught the ferry from North Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Port au Basques, Newfoundland, the wind was a mere 40-50 kilometres per hour, but we motored on up the coast to a safer place to paddle. When we arrived at St. Anthony's, up on the tip of the northern peninsula, the wind had picked up to a steady 90kph, and even the local fishermen weren't going out. We we sorely tempted, since there were a number of largish icebergs offshore (the whole reason we had made this particular trip), but since the wind was strong enough that we were staggering around out on the point looking at the bergs, we decided that if we launched, we were going to end up in Greenland or Ireland, and we didn't think that was a good idea. Nice visit to the Viking settlement though, and, it being very early in the season (some exhibits not even open yet), we had a great long chat with some locals who remembered playing in the "Indian mounds" when they were younger. -- Darryl *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There's a little more info here: http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/06/grand_rapids_man_dies_while_ka.html Sounds like a dry suit could have made the difference. -mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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