This winter, not being able to go out touring, due to my nasty "staph"?' infection on my knee, can't swim, can't knee brace much... I started practicing surf landings going backwards towards the beach, I sure do like it that way as I always have an eye out for the incoming waves ready to paddle through a dump, and at the ready for the nasty wave to come at me... As for going towards the beach, the water carries me to shore and with very lttle paddling I can go ever so slow to the beach and execute safe landings ... This was discussed at the surf zone class I attended a few years back, but ot tried out...I guess I kept that one with me all along....sure do like it much more than having to keep looking back and back paddling so much... I wonder if anyone else does this... Yours naturally sylvio lamarche Wycliffe organic gardens & Exotic locales all over the globe *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, sylvio lamarche wrote: > This winter, not being able to go out touring, due to my nasty "staph"?' > infection on my knee, can't swim, can't knee brace much... > > I started practicing surf landings going backwards towards the beach, I > sure do like it that way as I always have an eye out for the incoming waves > ready to paddle through a dump, and at the ready for the nasty wave to come > at me... > As for going towards the beach, the water carries me to shore and > with very lttle paddling I can go ever so slow to the beach and execute > safe landings ... > > This was discussed at the surf zone class I attended a few years back, but > ot tried out...I guess I kept that one with me all along....sure do like it > much more than having to keep looking back and back paddling so much... > > > I wonder if anyone else does this... In the surf class I attended a year back that was the first one we learned, the old-standby, the failsafe, second only to wet exiting and swimming in with your boat tumbling in by itself. (That latter one was okay for the paddler, not much good for the boat - but what to do when all else _really_ fails!) Joy Hecht Arlington VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Sylvio, Though surf is not as much of an issue here in the northeast as it is on the west coast, I did used to land as you describe for a couple of years. I eventually gave it up because I could not see the granite rocks just below the surface near shore and put some large dings in my cedar-strip hull. How do you avoid that? mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Hi Sylvio, > Though surf is not as much of an issue here in the northeast as it >is on the west coast, I did used to land as you describe for a couple of >years. I eventually gave it up because I could not see the granite rocks >just below the surface near shore and put some large dings in my >cedar-strip hull. How do you avoid that? > mark Mostly I paddle the south china sea and usually get to go toshore on white flour ttype sandy beaches.. I would think I could go slow enough to look back and make sure... So far my klepper skin has only needed 1 small patch, another to come soon...And that is so easily done Yours naturally sylvio lamarche Wycliffe organic gardens & Exotic locales all over the globe *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-08-11 13:22:35 EDT, wgarden_at_cyberlink.bc.ca writes: << I started practicing surf landings going backwards towards the beach, I sure do like it that way >> This is like walking backwards to cross a busy street, so you can run back to the crab to miss on coming traffic. I feel it slows you down and you spend more time in the surf zone. If it gets you on the beach in one piece will good for you. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 98-08-11 13:22:35 EDT, wgarden_at_cyberlink.bc.ca writes: > > << I started practicing surf landings going backwards towards the beach, I > sure do like it that way >> > This is like walking backwards to cross a busy street, so you can run back to > the crab to miss on coming traffic. I feel it slows you down and you spend > more time in the surf zone. If it gets you on the beach in one piece will good > for you. That is an interesting point, I mean the one about spending lots of time in what is a tricky place to be. But I for one agree with sylvio regarding his approach to surf landing, going in backwards and under control. My approach to dangerous situations is to do whatever it takes to be in as full control as you can and that in the long run you are safer that way. This applies not only to surf landings but also other dicey situations, one in particular that I see a lot of around here: crossing a busy harbor with a pretty fast current running up and down it. While it may surprise many people, an awful lot of paddling is going on these days in New York City, especially the half mile or more wide Hudson River. The amount of commercial and recreational motor boat traffic seems to double each year. However, nature remains constant and the river floods and ebbs strongly at time. When you are crossing the river, you have two choices...attempt to paddle straight across to minimize your time in traffic or go across at a ferry angle that keeps you out there somewhat longer. The prudent thing to do is to ferry angle since it means you will get to where you want to go and not get pushed down range by the currents (or winds, plenty of them here). What happens if you try to rush straight across is that you will have to stop at points to let a large boat by, and broadside to the current, you will go downrange of your destination. Then you will have to paddle back against the full current's force and expose yourself even more with your speed and manueverability greatly reduced (the channel is effectively as broad as the river, i.e. near shore is not "safe" from roaring motorized traffic). So the issue is one of being in a hazardous situation but under control versus trying to get out of there in a hurry but risking other consequences (in surf landings: broaching and dumping; in crossing river traffic: prolonging your exposure later to get back to where you want to go). ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:00 AM 8/11/98 -0700, sylvio lamarche wrote: >This winter, not being able to go out touring, due to my nasty "staph"?' >infection on my knee, can't swim, can't knee brace much... > >I started practicing surf landings going backwards towards the beach, I >sure do like it that way as I always have an eye out for the incoming waves >ready to paddle through a dump, and at the ready for the nasty wave to come >at me... > As for going towards the beach, the water carries me to shore and >with very lttle paddling I can go ever so slow to the beach and execute >safe landings ... I guess it depends on the surf. Here on the big lake you can (or I can) easily find yourself facing a much bigger and steeper wave than expected, and if you realize it too late and are not paddling quick enough into it when it hits you, you are in for a wild backward surf ride. I think I would rather find myself careening wildly towards shore while facing the shore (actually I like doing that) than careening backwards toward it. Not that the latter doesnt have its own special thrill, but it sounds like you are more concerned with landing than thrills. Not having surfed the ocean, I cant speak for that situation, but you might have more spacing and reaction time between waves on the ocean, so you might be better able to avoid back surfing. If it consistantly works for you, then its probably a good system. Of course if you want part thrill and part vision you can always do some broached surfing. However, if you do see some obstruction in your way there wont be a damn thing you can do about it. ;-) Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
....... >> << I started practicing surf landings going backwards towards the beach, I >> sure do like it that way >> >> This is like walking backwards to cross a busy street, so you can run >>back to >> the crab to miss on coming traffic. I feel it slows you down and you spend >> more time in the surf zone. If it gets you on the beach in one piece >>will good >> for you. > >That is an interesting point, I mean the one about spending lots of time >in what is a tricky place to be. I don't think I spend much more time in the surf zone than if going forward without surfing any of the waves. I think that being able to neutralise the force of the wave easier actulally help me get through faster. Taking a ride is also easier to control and stop/slow down by punching through, so the rides are a bit more under control... In big surf op to 6 ', I feel quite able to go into shore this way, much safer, by being able to control the situation easier... Yours naturally sylvio lamarche Wycliffe organic gardens & Exotic locales all over the globe *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I freedive off of a 19.5 foot long surf ski ( a surf ski is a sit on top racing kayak, NOT a short kayak made for surfing at the beach----it is made to be able to "surf" the big ocean swells a mile or more out to sea ) . If it gets rough while I am freediving over the 2 to three hours I am likely to be absorbed by the diving, ultimately I'll face a rough entry at the beach. since I will not want my fins, mask, speargun, or any fish I have shot to be lost in the entry, it is important to me to make a safe entry. when the waves are under 4 feet, this is a non issue. As they hit 6 or 7, and or get very steep, they become problematic. Since the hull speed is very fast on this boat, my typical solution is to time the incoming waves, look for a relatively gradually sloping wave, and make sure I can accelerate to at least 7 miles perhour or so before the wave catches me. As long as I get the speed up first, the boat takes off down the wave face, and will surf straight down the wave. No angle over 20 to 30 degree is safe, as this could cause the boat to lose its ability to fall down the wave, and you could end up sideways. Without sufficient acceleration prior to the oncoming wave you want to catch, the back end of the kayak will puncture the wave top, and your rudder will hang in mid air---if this happens, plan on swimming. After one 3 hour day of practice to get this right, I have not wiped out in a surf entry since. This includes one day when the waves reached heights over 8 feet, and the local surfing community was rapidly responding to their newly arrived surf fantasy. The only bad part of this entry, was the speed coming in on the wave was so high, it carried me all the way right up onto the beach, where the boat was litterally thrown down onto the sand, as the wave suddenly died. At this point I executed an emergency half roll, to take the impact my self rather than the hull. No damage to either of us resulted :-) Dan Volker > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of sylvio > lamarche > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:55 AM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] surf landings > > > ....... > > >> << I started practicing surf landings going backwards > towards the beach, I > >> sure do like it that way >> > >> This is like walking backwards to cross a busy street, so > you can run > >>back to > >> the crab to miss on coming traffic. I feel it slows you > down and you spend > >> more time in the surf zone. If it gets you on the beach in > one piece > >>will good > >> for you. > > > >That is an interesting point, I mean the one about spending > lots of time > >in what is a tricky place to be. > > I don't think I spend much more time in the surf zone than if > going forward > without surfing any of the waves. > I think that being able to neutralise the force of the > wave easier > actulally help me get through faster. > Taking a ride is also easier to control and stop/slow down by > punching through, so the rides are a bit more under control... > In big surf op to 6 ', I feel quite able to go into > shore this > way, much safer, by being able to control the situation easier... > > Yours naturally > > sylvio lamarche > Wycliffe organic gardens > & Exotic locales all over the globe > > > > ************************************************************** > ************* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
..... I feel it slows you down and you spend more time in the surf zone. If it gets you on the beach in one piece will good for you. Yes I spend a bit more time in the surf zone, but way more under control and I can slowly make my way to shore a lot sAfer... Yours naturally sylvio lamarche Wycliffe organic gardens & Exotic locales all over the globe *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
..... >I guess it depends on the surf. Here on the big lake you can (or I can) >easily find yourself facing a much bigger and steeper wave than expected, >and if you realize it too late and are not paddling quick enough into it >when it hits you, you are in for a wild backward surf ride. I think that facing the bigger waves makes it a lot easier to see them coming, and to deal with them. It is also easier to study the wave pattern when facing them, I can stop and check it out for a while just outside the zone and figure out my timing...Using the smaller ones to push me to shore a bit, while under control, and ready to punch through the bigger ones...I can also stop and wait out my time in the in between zone much safer than the other way as again I am ready for evasive action... Yours naturally sylvio lamarche Wycliffe organic gardens & Exotic locales all over the globe *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:55 PM 8/12/98 -0700, sylvio lamarche wrote: >..... > >>I guess it depends on the surf. Here on the big lake you can (or I can) >>easily find yourself facing a much bigger and steeper wave than expected, >>and if you realize it too late and are not paddling quick enough into it >>when it hits you, you are in for a wild backward surf ride. > I think that facing the bigger waves makes it a lot easier to see >them coming, and to deal with them. >It is also easier to study the wave pattern when facing them, I can stop >and check it out for a while just outside the zone and figure out my >timing...Using the smaller ones to push me to shore a bit, while under >control, and ready to punch through the bigger ones...I can also stop and >wait out my time in the in between zone much safer than the other way as >again I am ready for evasive action... My experience with surf has been almost exclusively in the active pursuit of surf on a familiar, sandy beach, and my comments must be taken with that in mind. When you just want to get in safely with a loaded boat, its a whole different matter and a more prudent approach may be warranted. If I was in unfamiliar surfy waters my approach might be different than when I'm out for a ride near home. Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-08-13 03:28:30 EDT, wgarden_at_cyberlink.bc.ca writes: << It is also easier to study the wave pattern when facing them, I can stop and check it out for a while just outside the zone and figure out my timing...Using the smaller ones to push me to shore a bit, while under control, and ready to punch through the bigger ones... >> Sounds to me like this discussion is highlighting the difference between a sea kayaker who has to transit a surf zone to have fun doing <sea kayaking> and a sea kayaker who wants the fun and thrill of doing some <surfing>! We had a similar discussion after a clinic we ran with the Chesapeake Paddler Association --- only this one is a bit more intelligent --- and the bottom line was that typical touring sea kayaks may or may not be great surfing vehicles, but can provide safe vehicles for transiting the surf zone. Essentially, are you there <for> or <in spite of> the waves? Coming in stern first is probably slower and is not as much of a thrill, but if you're there to sea kayak as opposed to surf, it's a viable and effective means of transiting the zone. Jack Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:29 AM 8/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >"Driving" my Falcon 18, my problem in the surf exists when the waves are >much over four feet; i.e. 5 feet. I watch the video of Kent Ford >(Performance Kayaking?) where he demonstrates backpaddling up the wave >while facing the beach... while surfing in. I havent seen that, but I'd like to. > >If I get in a steep breaking wave, while surfing in, say a five foot wave, >my bow will plunge and I will loop (pitchpol). I havent yet looped, but I've come reeeeaaal close! When my bow starts to bury I lay flat on the back deck and so far thats raised the bow for me. If I sense the wave is that steep, I usually back off, backpaddle and lay flat on my back ASAP. So far, Ive been lucky. Actually, I find myself surfing (forward) with a backward lean anyway, since it keeps my center of gravity lower and it puts me in a good position for a reverse roll, which is my preferred roll. If I try to angle down the >wave by using stern rudder, on such a steep wave, it immediately broaches >me if my angle is as little as 10 or 15 degress off perpendicular from the >wave. I sometimes have luck by stern ruddering AND leaning hard to the opposite side. It doesnt always work and its an uncomfortable maneuver, and if your paddle comes out of the water you're in the soup because you are leaning against the purchase of the paddle on the other side. I usually surf with my skeg down and that really helps. Before I started using the skeg I would broach regularly, and even people much more experienced than I cant keep from broaching without a skeg. > >The best bet for me, seems to be to keep out of the area where the wave >actually breaks. ONce it breaks, it is easier to ride. Either >perpendicular to wave action in an entry or exit, or as a broach and brace. > >I would welcome further discussion of Surf techniques when the waves are >greater then 4 or 5 feet. I welcome any discussion of any surf! Epecially with the fall gale season approaching. I'm certainly no expert at surfing although I've gone from being terrified to addicted in the last 3 years. Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:51 PDT