During the Storm Island rescue last April, the three of us involved used a combination of flares and VHF radio to help rescue resources locate us in the confused surface of the sea and swell. I had smoke flares, but did not use them, as the 12 gauge aerial flares finally did the job. The fish boat skipper said that with the wind blowing such as it was, the smoke flares would have dissipated too quickly anyway. I also had a parachute flare, but did not know how I could shoot one of these big mothers off, while still maintaining balance and paddle purchase in the wild sea. Finally the other two guys, rafted up together (with me towing them into the tide and wind) were able to shoot the 12 gauge safety launcher (gun). In an article I did for Sea Kayaker a while ago, about a novice who bailed off near Trial Island (Victoria), a report was given on the novice's use of his teeth and one free hand to launch his small Skyblazer aerial flare. Questions: 1. In a churning, windy sea condition, dye markers and smoke flares (unless they are really big offshore units) might prove useless. Any comments? 2. Where maintaining stability in horrible conditions is paramount, but where a distress signal is required, what can a tippy paddler do? Are there one-hand launchable flares, or ones where you can hit the bottom of the flare on your deck to fire? 3. After seeing dramatic evidence of the ease with which rapid fire sucssesion can be maintain with a bandolier of 12 gauge cartridges close at hand, I'm surprised more kayakers don't use them [I mean carry them :)]. More than a few people went out and bought them after presentations of our slide show and/or rescue story retelling. Any comments from the peanut gallery on these 12 gauge gun launchers. I need some food for thought -- sorry, I don't have a "flare" for breakfast recipes so left the other thread alone! BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"2. Where maintaining stability in horrible conditions is paramount, but where a distress signal is required, what can a tippy paddler do? Are there one-hand launchable flares" They all seem like a pain in the neck to me. Launcher tubes built into the deck of the boat (like submarine missile launchers) might do the trick, but then what if you are separated from the boat? How well do flares (Skyblazers or shells) show up in broad daylight? I have heard it said that the orange smoke is the ticket in daytime. I can imagine that a real wind might whisk the smoke away though. Where do you all carry flares? They get wet in my PFD pocket. I use a seasock, so it's awkward to carry them in the boat where I can get to them easily. Why don't kayaks have a glove compartment in front of the cockpit? Those behind the back dayhatches are tough to get to. Nick Lyle *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Whitesavage & Lyle wrote: > > Where do you all carry flares? They get wet in my PFD pocket. I use a > seasock, so it's awkward to carry them in the boat where I can get to > them easily. Why don't kayaks have a glove compartment in front of the > cockpit? Those behind the back dayhatches are tough to get to. I carry them in a PFD pocket, and do not worry about them geting wet -- they are the upgraded Skyblazers, and seem pretty well protected from water entry. With that sea sock, a knee tube under the deck would be difficult to fashion, although a velcro-closed pair of slits might allow under-deck bungies to penetrate the sea sock without compromising it too badly. I believe someone on this list has done that, IIRC. Maybe you need to consider a deck bag. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: Whitesavage & Lyle <nickjean_at_speakeasy.org> Big snip >Where do you all carry flares? They get wet in my PFD pocket. I use a >seasock, so it's awkward to carry them in the boat where I can get to >them easily. Why don't kayaks have a glove compartment in front of the >cockpit? Those behind the back dayhatches are tough to get to. > >Nick Lyle I carry my three Skyblazers in my PFD pocket, on the theory that if I get seperated from my boat and am bobbing around on my Sea Seat (a sort of mini-liferaft) or washed ashore somewhere, I might want them. I used to attempt to protect my old model Skyblazers (supposedly the new style are more watertight) by knotting them in condoms (I'd suggest the non-lubed kind:-). However, I found they tended to turn brown and brittle within a few weeks - and if you think about their actual designed purpose, I supposed the engineers only comtemplated them having to withstand air exposure for a few hours at most. However, you can have a "glove compartment" on your kayak. I use a Voyaguer (brand) deck bag that has a full dryzip. It's a great place to carry the semi-submersible camera, binos, sunscreen, back-up Power Bars, and other stuff you might want during the day. (Don't carry too many of your Canadian Ballast Rocks (TM) in it, or you'll make the centre of gravity too high.) A friend of mine, who is handier with fibreglass and whose kayak has more room under the cockpit deck, has glassed-in a seperate box under the deck in front of him that is accessed by a 6" screw-in hatch (available at boat supply stores). Both our solutions allow you to access stuff in conditions where you would not want to pop the sprayskirt and risk flooding in the cockpit. Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Philip Torrens wrote: > However, you can have a "glove compartment" on your kayak. I use a Voyaguer > (brand) deck bag that has a full dryzip. It's a great place to carry the > semi-submersible camera, binos, sunscreen, back-up Power Bars, and other > stuff you might want during the day. Has there been a past discussion on deck bags which I can look up? If not, could we hear about others? How important is a truly waterproof compartment in a deck bag if you're not carrying binoculars? Thanks for anyone's advice.... e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Has there been a past discussion on deck bags which I can look up? If not, could we hear about others? How important is a truly waterproof compartment in a deck bag if you're not carrying binoculars? Thanks for anyone's advice.... e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu >> If you don't need a waterproof deck bag, you can make a small one by buying a detachable pocket for a backpack and adding a couple of straps and buckles to fasten it to your deck lines. I used to carry in mine a pair of binoculars (in a watertight box), a fog horn, a waterproof notebook, a pencil, film for my camera, etc. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Lloyd [mailto:dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca] snip > > 3. After seeing dramatic evidence of the ease with which rapid fire > sucssesion can be maintain with a bandolier of 12 gauge > cartridges close at > hand, I'm surprised more kayakers don't use them [I mean > carry them :)]. > More than a few people went out and bought them after > presentations of our > slide show and/or rescue story retelling. Any comments from the peanut > gallery on these 12 gauge gun launchers. I need some food for > thought -- > sorry, I don't have a "flare" for breakfast recipes so left the other > thread alone! > After misplacing the flare box for my skiff sometime over the winter I bought a small 12 gauge flare pistol and flares early this spring. After some initial testing I decided that it beat the Skyblazer style of flares hands down for convenience and reliability and started carrying it in the kayak as well. I keep the flare gun in my sprayskirt pocket (sans the built in "bandolier") and three flares in a pfd pocket. Spare flares are kept in a drybox with the emergency/first aid kit. I also carry a drybox with some SOLAS grade flares. The big flare box is primarily there for use from shore - ie. stranded and injured/sick. Neither the small SkyBlazer style flares nor the 12 gauge flares compare well to SOLAS grade flares - the SOLAS flares go MUCH higher and burn much more brightly and for a longer period of time, but because of their size the smaller flares are the ones I carry on my person (if you aren't wearing it you don't have it!). The other downside to the SOLAS flares is that they're expensive!! I've heard that there are 25mm pistol-style launchers that can throw a larger flare much higher than the 12 gauge, but haven't been able to locate one locally.....I'd be interested if anyone has any experience with these. Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:33 AM 9/7/99 -0800, David Seng <David_at_wainet.com> wrote: SNIP > I've heard that there are 25mm pistol-style launchers that can throw a >larger flare much higher than the 12 gauge, but haven't been able to locate >one locally.....I'd be interested if anyone has any experience with these. > Dave, The West Marine paper catalog has them. Also a comparison of flare performance. Don't know if the info is on the web. Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bill Leonhardt and I were just tossing a couple of emails back and forth off-line, but his questions seemed relevant to the list so I'm posting them here. > Hi Dave, > > Right now I'm flareless after shooting off my old skyblazers > on July 4th > and then not finding replacements. I would be interested in > hearing what > testing you've done. We could talk off line or you could > post to Paddlewise. > > 1. What brand 12 ga. did you get? Cost? Replacements/ammo? I purchased the 12 ga. Orion. I think that it cost around $25 and the shells/flares are sold in packages of three for $12. > > 2. Does the launcher/gun look simple and reliable? It's plastic and thus suspicious (to my mind) but it does the job quite admirably. You load each shell individually by breaking the launcher at the breech and inserting the shell into the chamber/barrel. Just like loading a single-shot shotgun. Very simple and reliable. > > 3. Is it intuitive or is some training/practice called for? Pretty intuitive to me, but I grew up in a household where hunting was a common thing - guns were simply tools. Actually - it really is easy to use, there really just aren't that many moving parts. > > 4. Do you need two hands to laod, launch, etc? Two hands to load. One hand to pull the trigger. > 5. How do you feel about deploying while treading water? Treading water in flat, calm seas - no problem, especially while wearing a pfd. Treading water in the kind of seas that would have dumped me _and_ made me lose my kayak??? I don't think that _any_ kind of device would be easy to operate in those conditions. It certainly is easier to use than just about any of the other types of aerial flares that I've seen. Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dave, Does the Orion have any type of safety on it? Would it be okay to load it before the put-in (so that it will be ready to use one-handed) then remove the cartridge after paddling? Thanks, Robb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--- David Seng <David_at_wainet.com> wrote: > Bill Leonhardt and I were just tossing a couple of > emails back and forth > off-line, but his questions seemed relevant to the > list so I'm posting them > here. I've found the plastic construction of the Orion 12GA to be pretty bomb proof. What I cannot figure is why Orion builds it with a ferrous spring inside. I always try to keep my flares or flare guns on my pfd but never seem to keep the water out, can't find a reliable dry bag that small. What happens after about a month of playing in the water I'll pull out my Orion for a check up and find that sure enough just a little water made through my defences and now I have rusty shells and a flare gun that won't open because of a rusted broken spring. I've gone through two 12GA guns in this manner and won't take them out any more. Brgds, Jeff __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There's no safety per se, but it is a single-action type of gun - i.e. you have to pull the hammer back manually before pulling on the trigger does anything. I don't carry mine with a flare in the chamber for several reasons - first, the safety issue, although I really don't think it very likely that it would go off accidentally; and second, because I really can't imagine a scenario where I'm either so incapacitated that I couldn't load it or need to fire a flare off so quickly that I couldn't take the few seconds required to load it. Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska > -----Original Message----- > From: RBHoltKayak_at_aol.com [mailto:RBHoltKayak_at_aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 11:03 AM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Distress Signals > > > Hi Dave, > Does the Orion have any type of safety on it? Would it > be okay to load > it before the put-in (so that it will be ready to use > one-handed) then remove > the cartridge after paddling? > Thanks, Robb > ************************************************************** > ************* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Whitesavage & Lyle wrote: > How well do flares (Skyblazers or shells) show up in broad daylight? A boat with five fishermen was lost on the Canadian side of Lake Erie a few weeks ago. A couple of days afterwards, when the Coast Guard, police and armed forces were searching for them, someone reported seeing a flare the day they were lost. The problem may not be "are they visible?" but "will the dork that sees it actually report it before I die?" Sigh... Last I heard, the body of one of the fishermen was recovered. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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