My wife picked up a copy of the book at our local supermarket in which I was quoted and which got the attention of Inside Edition for a possible on-camera interview. The book is part of People's New Biography Series called People Profiles and is on John F. Kennedy Jr. I am quoted on pages 61 and 62. Get this. Every word, and I mean every word, is direct quotes from my postings to NYCKAYAKER and PADDLEWISE of July 19th! So it was not the result of my voice message in answer to a message from a writer/friend at People. The quotes are not out of context and reflect the basic thrust of what I said, although clearly edited for space. But no where in my posting did I palm myself off as an acquaintance of JK, and I don't think that any reading of that posting would leave that impression. I was speaking as a knowledgeable-kayaking observer who talked with the man once, nothing more. The book has a list at the end titled "Author Interviews" and includes my name but none of what was quoted was the result of any interviews...there weren't any with me in any form!!! So...boy, I am glad I was careful with my words in my postings. ralph diaz BTW, they also quote Eric Stiller on page 60-61 who did give him some instruction. Maybe they have lined up Eric for that TV show. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > My wife picked up a copy of the book at our local supermarket in which I > was quoted and which got the attention of Inside Edition for a possible > on-camera interview. > > The book is part of People's New Biography Series called People Profiles > and is on John F. Kennedy Jr. I am quoted on pages 61 and 62. > > Get this. Every word, and I mean every word, is direct quotes from my > postings to NYCKAYAKER and PADDLEWISE of July 19th! So it was not the > result of my voice message in answer to a message from a writer/friend > at People. This is chilling. I had a backchannel discussion with Ralph and Jackie Fenton about whether stuff we post here is protected from unwanted extraction by the popular press (etc.). I believe the consensus was we were. Guess not. Those of us who are small fish in the pond should be glad for our low profile. Ralph and other folks who are more well-known have just discovered another avenue of exposure for them. This really hacks me off! I greatly value the informal nature of the exchanges we make here, and feel we have built up a culture (many thanks to the listmom, who has managed us well ...8-) ) in which respect for the other person's point of view, and tolerance for honest differences, is the norm. I highly value the access we enjoy to the various knowledgeable people here. If we have to worry that some two-bit flack will scoop up our incidental ramblings as a "public" utterance, some of our discourse will diminish. I'm worried about this. I have some liability exposure, owing to my profession and my experience with chemicals. I suspect I will be much more circumspect anytime someone makes an informal query re: solvents, materials, and the like. What do you say, listmom? Am I overreacting? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> > This is chilling. I had a backchannel discussion with Ralph and Jackie Fenton > about whether stuff we post here is protected from unwanted extraction by the > popular press (etc.). I believe the consensus was we were. Guess not. I'm not sure I understand... consensus where? (I wrote Dave that anything you write or say on the internet or otherwise, can and has been forwarded elsewhere regardless of the policy on PaddleWise that states that the author's permission should be asked first). I think most folks that submit messages to the internet realize it's difficult to control that and there are people out there that are more interested in being the first to "spread the word" than waiting for permission to forward a message to another forum. I also believe that forwarding articles or stories without permission is copyright violation. > Those of us who are small fish in the pond should be glad for our low > profile. Ralph and other folks who are more well-known have just discovered > another avenue of exposure for them. Usually, those in higher profile have been aware for some time about having their words quoted or misquoted whether written or otherwise. Fortunately, in this case it appears that Ralph was quoted verbatum. I'm impressed. And I'm surprised. Who was the author, Ralph? This could be a plus regarding this medium... that whatever you say here is a record and misquotes can be easily pointed out. So the quoter must be accurate or they risk looking like a fool. > This really hacks me off! It does me, too. > I greatly value the informal nature of the > exchanges we make here, and feel we have built up a culture (many thanks to > the listmom, who has managed us well ...8-) ) in which respect for the other > person's point of view, and tolerance for honest differences, is the norm. I > highly value the access we enjoy to the various knowledgeable people here. > > If we have to worry that some two-bit flack will scoop up our incidental > ramblings as a "public" utterance, some of our discourse will diminish. > > I'm worried about this. I have some liability exposure, owing to my > profession and my experience with chemicals. I suspect I will be much more > circumspect anytime someone makes an informal query re: solvents, materials, > and the like. > > What do you say, listmom? Am I overreacting? That's for you to decide. Some people are very passionate about not having their words appear somewhere they didn't intend for them to appear. So they would not think you are over-reacting. I think you are right to be concerned or angered about having your words forwarded to another public forum without your permission. Not much you can do except stop posting (I don't intend to) or just accept that what you write may appear elsewhere. Maybe I should include the policy on the PaddleWise trailer. A copyright notice. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Fenton wrote: > > Usually, those in higher profile have been aware for some time about having > their words quoted or misquoted whether written or otherwise. Fortunately, in > this case it appears that Ralph was quoted verbatum. I'm impressed. And > I'm surprised. Who was the author, Ralph? Three authors are listed and perhaps one is a subscriber to either of the listservers, PaddleWise or Nyckayaker. J.D. Reed; Kyle Smith; and Jill Smolowe. David Kruger wrote > > What do you say, listmom? Am I overreacting? > > That's for you to decide. Some people are very passionate about not having > their words appear somewhere they didn't intend for them to appear. So > they would not think you are over-reacting. I think you are right to be > concerned or angered about having your words forwarded to another public > forum without your permission. I think the lesson here is not not to post but rather something else. Don't be concerned about posting when you can contribute something but be certain to: --make your thoughts clear and precise as you can; --be careful about loaded words such as saying reckless (which I avoided) that do no good, muddy the waters and whatever point you want to get across; --if your posting is about some specific person, identified or anonymous, write as if that person will read it; --write as if your worse enemy or critic will read it...leave him/her no ammunition to use against you, i.e. be honest, forthright and fair and you will have nothing to fear; --most importantly, make certain that what you say contributes in some positive way to some good. I think a lot of the discussion around JFK Jr of a few months ago and now has been honest, forthright and fair. So congratulations all around. I use to work with a woman whose biggest compliment was to refer to some one as a "grown-up"...I think a lot of PaddleWisers are grown-ups (well, with the exception of a few who I won't name...:-)) cheers, ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 5 Oct 1999 rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: I use to work with a woman whose biggest compliment was to > refer to some one as a "grown-up"...I think a lot of PaddleWisers are > grown-ups (well, with the exception of a few who I won't name...:-)) And then there's Sandy's quote: You're never too young to have a happy childhood! But we love you anyway, Ralph, even when you act like a grown-up. Slainte! e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> > Usually, those in higher profile have been aware for some time about having > their words quoted or misquoted whether written or otherwise. Fortunately, in > this case it appears that Ralph was quoted verbatum. I'm impressed. And > I'm surprised. Who was the author, Ralph? > > This could be a plus regarding this medium... that whatever you say here > is a record and misquotes can be easily pointed out. So the quoter must be > accurate or they risk looking like a fool. On second thought, this could be pretty foolhearty also... to attribute quotes from the internet. I've known of several instances where individuals have forged headers and posted as someone else in a group. Not checking sources (getting permission) could prove embarassing to the individual that quoted from the internet. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi guys Ralph's being quoted without his permission from list postings is kind of interesting to me. (I'm assuming the other source is also a mail list and not a newsgroup.) I would have assumed that these postings are not an open publication, no matter how large the list. I would also consider the use he describes as a violation of his copyright. Does anyone know whether any court has examined this matter? e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Elaine Harmon wrote: > And then there's Sandy's quote: You're never too young to have a happy > childhood! Oh oh - misquoted her. It's "you're never too OLD..." Sorry, S. Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Elaine Harmon <eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu> > Hi guys > > Ralph's being quoted without his permission from list postings is kind of > interesting to me. (I'm assuming the other source is also a mail list and > not a newsgroup.) I would have assumed that these postings are not an open > publication, no matter how large the list. Yes and no. The list is open for anyone to subscribe. In otherwords, your subscription does not have to be approved. However, it can be revoked, so in that since, it's not open. Also, the archives are not open to non-subscribers, however some messages are available on the PaddleWise web pages to the public. These messages *do* contain a statement which says they may not be reproduced or reprinted without the author's permission (meaning they are copyrighted). > I would also consider the use > he describes as a violation of his copyright. Does anyone know whether any > court has examined this matter? e Not as far as I know. However, for more info regarding copyright, here are some sites: Copyright notice does not need to appear on any works that meet certain conditions. It is assumed to belong to the originator. To learn more, see the Copyright Act, Title 17, 405: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/405.html Fair use, US Copyright Act, Sect 107 (3), a factor considered in fair use is "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole." Meaning, you can take excerpts from a work to make a point, to review the article/report, etc. It's ok to take portions of a work and quote from the original to make a point or review the material, etc.: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html Also see Fair Use, Berne Convention http://www.law.cornell.edu/treaties/berne/10.html The entire Copyright Act document is made available by Cornell at this site as well as the Berne Convention Treaty. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >> My wife picked up a copy of the book at our local supermarket in which I >> was quoted and which got the attention of Inside Edition for a possible >> on-camera interview. >> >> The book is part of People's New Biography Series called People Profiles >> and is on John F. Kennedy Jr. I am quoted on pages 61 and 62. >> >> Get this. Every word, and I mean every word, is direct quotes from my >> postings to NYCKAYAKER and PADDLEWISE of July 19th! So it was not the >> result of my voice message in answer to a message from a writer/friend >> at People. > This kind of thing hurts because, as we all know, most of our posts comes in sound bites and the meaning often depends upon a lot of previous posts. Whenever the media gets involved things can go wrong. After a television interview I got the shock of my life to see that what I said had gotten horribly distorted by the editing. What came out did not remotely resemble what I said. I managed to get a retraction but you can bet no one paid as much attention to that as to the original. Having seen and experienced this kind of thing first hand I now take more care with what I say on camera. I suppose I should take more care here as well. B because of the nature of our post we get a lot of confusion as it it is. Let the media get hold of it and who knows what will happen. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/04/1999 8:54:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com writes: << Every word, and I mean every word, is direct quotes from my postings to NYCKAYAKER and PADDLEWISE of July 19th! >> I work for a police department, we call this a situation where SOMEONE IS DROPPING DIMES. It is not considered a nice thing to do. Shame on whoever did this. This could have caused Ralph incredible personal embarrassment and even professional detriment to his business (i.e. losing Folding Kayaker subscribers from people who idolize the Kennedys, future sales of the revised edition of his book) and his stature as an expert in the folding kayaker field. May you have sleepless nights racked with guilt. As for attributing it to an "interview!" This is unethical. Sign me, thoroughly disgusted, Sandy Kramer Miami Ralph, feel free to post this on your NYCKAYAKER in case the creep is from that source Oops, I see that by "replyining to all" they will get it. Good. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What a wake-up call. This didn't happen to me and yet I feel violated. I have come to regard these lists (Paddlewise & NYCKayaker) as my family. Occassionally, while we are sitting around the dinner table, we may squabble and, yes, sometimes the squabbles turn into food fights, and yet, noone seems to leave the dining room before wiping the food off each other and giving each other a hug. Now I find out that some weasle has attached a microphone under the table. Shame on you, whoever you are. Do you sleep at night? Get off our lists. You are not welcome here. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ > ---------- > From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com[SMTP:rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com] > > The book is part of People's New Biography Series called People Profiles > and is on John F. Kennedy Jr. I am quoted on pages 61 and 62. > > Get this. Every word, and I mean every word, is direct quotes from my > postings to NYCKAYAKER and PADDLEWISE of July 19th! So it was not the > result of my voice message in answer to a message from a writer/friend > at People. > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Certainly, I share the outrage at the exploitation of what we consider to be a family discussion here. OTOH, Ralph as said, "The quotes are not out of context and reflect the basic thrust of what I said, although clearly edited for space. But no where in my posting did I palm myself off as an acquaintance of JK, and I don't think that any reading of that posting would leave that impression. I was speaking as a knowledgeable-kayaking observer who talked with the man once, nothing more." --Did he say you were an acquaintance? Maybe even meeting JFKjr was this person's definition of that. Who knows? Maybe I even think of someone who was around him on occasion as an acquaintance. I hadn't really thought about it. In this vein, I'd say that, thought I firmly and fully disapprove of taking Ralph's contributions to the online conversation without his consent, they did it with a basic integrity to the communication. I resent the media for a lack of integer to the truth of what is reported. In other words, they take things and twist them until the essence is bled out of them. Or even worse, the are turned completely around. They are either so "busy" they don't take the time to learn the truth of their "news" or they really don't care as long as the bureau chief is happy and they get their byline. In writing a book there is no excuse for any sloppy writing. There is no excuse for taking what isn't rightfully given. I am not excusing whoever did this but I will say that if all of those who report, in whatever forum, were as conscientious to the essence of the truth as this person was. I'd be substantially more willing to just give a nod to a breach of etiquette like this. I don't agree that you should leave. I do think that at minimum you owe EVERYONE, not just Ralph, an apology. Joan Spinner "Reeves, Debbie (Debbie)" wrote: > What a wake-up call. This didn't happen to me and yet I feel violated. I > have come to regard these lists (Paddlewise & NYCKayaker) as my family. > Occassionally, while we are sitting around the dinner table, we may squabble > and, yes, sometimes the squabbles turn into food fights, and yet, noone > seems to leave the dining room before wiping the food off each other and > giving each other a hug. Now I find out that some weasle has attached a > microphone under the table. > > Shame on you, whoever you are. Do you sleep at night? Get off our lists. > You are not welcome here. > > Debbie Reeves > Sandy Hook, NJ > > > ---------- > > From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com[SMTP:rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com] > > > > The book is part of People's New Biography Series called People Profiles > > and is on John F. Kennedy Jr. I am quoted on pages 61 and 62. > > > > Get this. Every word, and I mean every word, is direct quotes from my > > postings to NYCKAYAKER and PADDLEWISE of July 19th! So it was not the > > result of my voice message in answer to a message from a writer/friend > > at People. > > > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Reeves, Debbie (Debbie)" wrote: > I > have come to regard these lists (Paddlewise & NYCKayaker) as my family. > Occassionally, while we are sitting around the dinner table, we may squabble > and, yes, sometimes the squabbles turn into food fights, and yet, noone > seems to leave the dining room before wiping the food off each other and > giving each other a hug. Are you trying to start that whole feathered/unfeathered/sp**nson thing again? I like this quote, it really does describe the group as a whole! Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> I think the lesson here is not not to post but rather something else. Don't be concerned about posting when you can contribute something but be certain to: --make your thoughts clear and precise as you can; --be careful about loaded words such as saying reckless (which I avoided) that do no good, muddy the waters and whatever point you want to get across; --if your posting is about some specific person, identified or anonymous, write as if that person will read it; --write as if your worse enemy or critic will read it...leave him/her no ammunition to use against you, i.e. be honest, forthright and fair and you will have nothing to fear; --most importantly, make certain that what you say contributes in some positive way to some good. I think a lot of the discussion around JFK Jr of a few months ago and now has been honest, forthright and fair. So congratulations all around. I use to work with a woman whose biggest compliment was to refer to some one as a "grown-up"...I think a lot of PaddleWisers are grown-ups (well, with the exception of a few who I won't name...:-)) cheers, ralph diaz >> Good rules for anyone writing e-mail. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Whew! I just went back and read what I wrote. Clearly I should have allowed my anger to subside a bit before I tried to compose my mail. It just caught me by surprise; you know - stimulus/response. I humbly retract my rantings (below). Please accept my apologies. Debs > ---------- > From: Reeves, Debbie (Debbie) > > What a wake-up call. This didn't happen to me and yet I feel violated. I > have come to regard these lists (Paddlewise & NYCKayaker) as my family. > Occassionally, while we are sitting around the dinner table, we may > squabble > and, yes, sometimes the squabbles turn into food fights, and yet, noone > seems to leave the dining room before wiping the food off each other and > giving each other a hug. Now I find out that some weasle has attached a > microphone under the table. > > Shame on you, whoever you are. Do you sleep at night? Get off our lists. > You are not welcome here. > > Debbie Reeves > Sandy Hook, NJ > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/05/1999 2:13:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dreeves_at_lucent.com writes: << my family. > Occassionally, while we are sitting around the dinner table, we may squabble and, yes, sometimes the squabbles turn into food fights, and yet, noone seems to leave the dining room before wiping the food off each other and giving each other a hug. >> Don't worry, I thought it was pretty good. Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> >- --write as if your worse enemy or critic will read it...leave him/her no >ammunition to use against you, i.e. be honest, forthright and fair and >you will have nothing to fear; > > "Yes. Isn't it pretty to think so." - Ernest Hemingway, (from, I think, "The Sun Also Rises.") Hello Ralph, Forgive me. I couldn't resist. :-) I have long enjoyed and learned from your contributions to the Paddlewise community. I liked your list, your "code," if you will. It's a reflection of your beliefs, and more, your character. I don't know how else to say it than to say: You're a good and decent man, Ralph Diaz --- an honorable man. We are fortunate to have you here. I think you were wise to decline the TV interview. *Generally* speaking the media are NOT honorable people. They are driven by greed, and lust for fame and power. They don't play inside the lines. They abide by no rules save for an ethic of expediency, which is no ethics at all. The perp who made a liar and thief of himself, stealing your words, and claiming an interview that never took place, probably lied to his editor as well. (He's counting on you not to take the trouble to contact his boss.) Despite my skepticism of the media in general, there's a chance that the publisher's editors are unaware of what has happened, would be distressed to learn of it, and would be grateful to you for informing them of this "rogue" reporter's misconduct. If you were to contact them with your concerns, there's a chance the perp will get what he so richly deserves. If nothing else, it would be good to ID this perp and expose him on the two lists you mentioned if he's an actual participant. It might be worth pursuing, not only for yourself and your own peace-of-mind, but for the future benefit of others as well. What do you think? -Bruce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I did not know that book existed until Ralph told us about it. Ralph should indeed get credit for doing such a tremendous publicity on the internet about the People book Yesterday I took a look at it while waiting in line at Safeway and, sure enough, it has Ralph's name in the last pages. I propose that as a gesture of sympathy towards Ralph, and as a way to condemn the fact that the author stole text from a mailing list without permission, we refuse to buy the book. Please use the $4.99+tax to make a donation to charity, or get a capuccino with a biscotti, but do not buy that book. cheers, - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
OK, so I'm on my way to Borders for that cappucino, which I am going to spill while reading book in store.. Scott ©1999, A little east of Bimini >I propose that as a gesture of sympathy towards Ralph, and >as a way to condemn the fact that the author stole text from >a mailing list without permission, we refuse to buy the book *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/07/1999 2:56:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << I propose that as a gesture of sympathy towards Ralph, and as a way to condemn the fact that the author stole text from a mailing list without permission, we refuse to buy the book. >> Yeah, right, as if that's going to make a big impression. Really, how many "sophisticated" paddlewisers were really going to rush out and buy the book in the first place? And unless a "boycott" is announced how would they know what was going on. An exercise in futility, in my opinion. Anyway why would we want to buy JFK Jr's boot? It might not be the right size!! (Sorry, Julio, just pulling your leg re the typo in the subject line!) I was going to suggest that perhaps whoever did it is feeling really rotten and maybe would be willing to contact Ralph privately and apologize. The rest of us don't need to know who it was, Ralph could just advise us that the apology was made and accepted and let this thing die. Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Winters wrote: <snip>Whenever the media gets involved things can go wrong. After a television >interview I got the shock of my life to see that what I said had gotten >horribly distorted by the editing. What came out did not remotely resemble >what I said.<snip> Let the media get hold of it and who knows what will happen. I've come to the point where I completely distrust the media (though People Magazine is better than most). Working for the British Columbia government, I see almost everyday, how distorted the media reports news items, both in accuracy and bias - only supperceeded by the government's spin-doctoring when it wants to, of course :-) On an even more personal note, recently (April 99) the newspaper ran a short blurb on our rescue off the Storm Islands, stating that a man came out of his kayak in heavy seas, and was not able to be assisted by his friends, who had to call the Coast Guard. I granted an interview after the same newspaper called me upon our safe arrival home, only because I wanted to correct the errors of the first report (no one went into the water). I figured they would print a small corrective somewhere. I told the reporter that the individual in question had started to fall into hypothermia, that no, he really wasn't up to the crossing in the first place, but had reluctantly agreed to it, though he never said "No", and that one of the boat's seems split and was taking on water in heavy seas, so we decided to do a conservative bail-out and call for help before darkness descended. I said I was scared we might loose the hypothermic paddler, and at the time I was thinking of my family and children. Simple, eh? A photographer showed up at the door a half hour later, took a few shots, the said how about one with the girls. They jumped at the chance, and before I knew it, a picture was taken and the photographer was gone. The next day - I was still on vacation - one of my co-workers called, mad as can be. You SOB, she said, have you seen the paper? How could you do that to your paddling friend (making him do the crossing), and how dare you use your children to sensationalized the front cover of the newspaper. THE FRONT COVER!? YIKES! I rushed out to buy one, and sure enough, I was on the front cover with the kids and kayak, with big headlines about praying to God that I would see my kids again. Reading further, the paper tried to lay blame, saying it was a "two to one decision" to cross. No wonder everyone in Victoria was mad at me and fellow Paddlewiser Dave Blacoe. Sure we made some errors, but we are not total as%&sho$#es. The paper stated incorrectly, also, that we were in 5 meter breaking seas, and that Dave's kayak was breaking in half! Ha! I took so much flack from everyone, I finally phoned the reporter, said "Nice article, but, like, where did you get the 5 meter walls of water breaking on us from, where did you conjure up the boat breaking in half, and where did you get the idea that we vetoed a decision by a weaker paddler?" The lady reporter said that they *always* make rescue at sea stories a minimum of 5 meters, as it conveys more dramatic impact, that the two to one thing was her interpretation, and that the kayak, if we had not got help, "COULD have" broken up into two pieces. I told the reporter that, at the late age of 41, I finally figured out where responsible journalism begins and abruptly ends - right at the very first page! I told her I would never believe the news again, and would treat even conservative newspapers such as hers as just another rag. I told her she did a lot of damage to the sport and our reputations, though I did thank her for the correct portions of the story sensitively told, and her conclusions that indicated we were well equipped and trained, and that had paid off in the end. What really got to me was that almost the entire paddling community here believed every "jot and tittle" of the report, without thinking to even ask us first for what really happened. It was only after Dave patiently explained to a commercial guides gathering, that some of the heat cooled down, and the flames were not so red hot. I know some of you PW'ers are media types, and I'm not implying you are all like the reporter I dealt with, but I still think I'll shy away from reporters in future, unless they have a reputation widely know for accuracy - and even than I'd be hesitant. The CBC phoned me that same day for an interview, and did the same thing - tried to sensationalize the story, dramatic as it was, and steer the conversation their way. I ended the short interview flustered and upset, never being given the chance to say what I really wanted to. Well, thanks for listening to my non-copyrighted dribble :-) BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:03 PDT