Sea Kayak Rollers, I have been surprised about sea kayakers referring to C to C rolls so much in posts on this list, because I find the sweep roll much more effective in a sea kayak, especially one loaded or swamped, and most especially for the re-enter and roll. I thought the C to C was used mostly by white water paddlers. I practice to maintain C to C rolls on both sides, but when it comes to combat, it is always a sweep roll on either side for me. The sweep roll just seems smoother and more powerful. I would like to read input from other sea kayakers about what kind of rolls they depend on for combat. Duane Strosaker Not Certified at All Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:23 PM 11/26/99 EST, Duane asked: >Sea Kayak Rollers, <snip> (for)> combat, it is always a sweep roll on either side for me. The sweep >roll just seems smoother and more powerful. > >I would like to read input from other sea kayakers about what kind of rolls >they depend on for combat. Duane, et al: I have a number of different takes on this. Some of it is specific to my boat/body build situation, so not so applicable to the list. I'd rather define any contribution toward your request for input by defining two considerations I have found to have significant implications. The first issue deals with *when* the combat roll occurs. I will preface this by saying that conventional wisdom (and Derek Hutchinson) says that to be able to roll is a sign of success, but to have to roll is a sign of failure. Hogwash! A boat/paddler combination finds its greatest stability in the inverted position. Kayakers capsize - ship happens. The Inuit had a host of rolls, and they USED them. Were they a bunch of loosers - I don't think so! Yes, they hunted and performed various tasks that could lead to a capsize. We fish, photograph, each a snack at sea, look back at our slow poke friends, and paddle in challenging conditions by choice - and flip over. We do be going over from time to time, don't we duane? I mountain bike. Rolling is like picking yourself back up after falling off the bike. Don't fall off very often, but when I do, I don't go, woe is me, an utter failure. My wife cycles too, but on groomed trails.Of course, she falls off once in a blue moon. I'm sure Matt Broze would disagree here with me on the roll issue. For me, the "when" is an issue with respect to full day paddles, especially taxing ones. A simple Screw Roll, even with little hip snap, is easy to perform early on in the day. By the end of the day, my "bombproof roll" is often "beyond" me. I've learn't to automatically use a more extended Sweep Roll closer to the end of the day if I go over. I'm not sure why it happens, but if I capsize in a combat situation at the end of a day trip or a full paddle play-day, I get instantly dizzy. Remember though, I do paddle in relatively cold water (no crocs or sharks though!). If I'm off-shore, I really prefer to have something reliable that works the first time consistently. So, I agree with you that the Sweep Roll, given we agree it is more powerful, is something I'm more partial toward. Just don't pull down on the shaft until you have finished the sweep part. Secondly, a lot depends upon the type of water I'm in. If I'm playing close inshore, such as rock gardens where the water can tend to be foaming after a big wash-over (that caught you), I like to go to the Vertical Storm Roll. If I can get the hand position correct fast enough, the extended paddle position (one hand is holding the blade), I can strike downward to more "solid" water; and when I come back up, I've got a bit of extra leverage available for stability purposes. You should also learn to scull untill your ear is in the water. This should be second nature, no thought given to balance at all; you should be at home in the full 180 degree range from left water level right over to right water level, then work the other 180 dergee range upside down till you comfortable. At the full 360 degrees, both from the left and right, you are truly ready for combat. I'm still missing a few degrees in there - among other things! As far as the C to C roll, I never use it. As far as the head dink proper, I use it a bit with the low brace to get the kayak oriented underneath me a bit better, but it is more of a pivot the head movement from one shoulder to the other than a strictly throw your head up and over movement, which I still maintain requires caution and thought. I'm suffering a bit from a foot-in-mouth hangover with this whole head dink issue, though I'm glad I brought it up for clarification. And what better reason for something like Paddlewise where we can solve the problems of difficult global paddling problems :-). Roger and Jan represent all that is good and right with west coast kayaking and instruction, and in my opinion, are miles ahead of most of us. I had no idea they were on our listserver. I pray I haven't offended them. I'm not a high-tech certified paddler - just an enthusiastic grunt who has learned to do what I need to do to stay alive out there and have fun and make it home to the family. Some pool stuff works out there, but combat situations require reliable-for-you methods, as you originally mentioned. I also wish there was more articles in magazines like Sea Kayaker on rolling - as long as it wouldn't offend the yup-yakers. Hey, they get lots of space too. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd (who often turns his world upside down) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug might be able to come to the aid of those of us a bit further back on the learning curve in this rolling business. At present, while I can perform a screw roll on both sides, it is by no means automatic and certain of success. So when the going gets tough, say in "combat" conditions I blow a screw roll, I then resort to a right side Pawlata. While this takes a moment longer to set up underwater, the extra leverage from the extended paddle shaft gives a good chance of success. And, holding the non sweeping blade helps a lot in making sure the sweeping blade is oriented correctly, sweeping not diving. So....questions:- 1. When you refer to a sweep roll, are you holding the non-sweeping blade, or the shaft near that blade? 2. You advocate the vertical storm roll as the roll of choice in foaming, aerated water. Do you use a feathered paddle? Do you start the vertical storm roll holding the blade or the shaft of the non-sweeping/diving blade end? When you surface after this roll, where does your supporting blade end up, deep under water? If all this is getting a bit tangled to explain in a posting, maybe your thoughts on the best reading sources to explain rolling options could be posted. Remember, in this hemisphere, we need to be up and out of range of the sharks and crocs quickly! Regards, PT. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > The first issue deals with *when* the combat roll occurs. I will preface > this by saying that conventional wisdom (and Derek Hutchinson) says that to > be able to roll is a sign of success, but to have to roll is a sign of > failure. Hogwash! A boat/paddler combination finds its greatest stability > in the inverted position. Kayakers capsize - ship happens. The Inuit had a > host of rolls, and they USED them. Were they a bunch of loosers - I don't > think so! Just a correction for the record from a distinguished authority on such matters, John Heath. Around the time that Maligiaq Padilla's visit to the Big Apple about two months ago, I got into extensive phone conversations with John (he had brought the Greenland kayaking champion over from Greenland and was his principal host in the US). Somewhere along the line, I mentioned that while I certainly admire Maligiaq and was enjoying his enthusiasism, good cheer and phenomenal abilities in kayaking and rolling, I don't roll. John chimmed in "Oh, don't worry about that, Ralph. At the height of the Greenlandic kayaking culture, a third or more of the kayakers could not roll at all." I don't think John was advocating not learning to roll. To the contrary. I have also heard him say something to the effect that x number of things happen to you in a capsize if you wind up out of your boat, all of them _bad_. But I just think it is worthwhile shedding more light on the historical perspective. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This thread reminds me of a question. I learned to roll via a C to C and later picked up the sweep roll. However, I don't like the way the sweep works because the sweep of the paddle causes pivoting of the kayak as a whole, so that when I emerge, the bow is not pointed in exactly the same direction as when I started. I assumed a small amount of pivoting was unavoidable in the sweep, but maybe it's just me: could more experienced sweepers comment? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:05 AM 11/27/99 -0600, you wrote: >This thread reminds me of a question. I learned to roll via a C to C and later >picked up the sweep roll. However, I don't like the way the sweep works because >the sweep of the paddle causes pivoting of the kayak as a whole, so that when I >emerge, the bow is not pointed in exactly the same direction as when I started. >I assumed a small amount of pivoting was unavoidable in the sweep, but maybe it's >just me: could more experienced sweepers comment? My kayak is directionally stable up or down, so only very exaggerated sweeps have any effect. The question is what roll is going to get you back up fast and reliably in real conditions, not which way the kayak is going to be oriented. Not for me anyway, as the stuff that normally throws me a curve, leaves the kayak in an orientation far from ideal anyway. Depends on your priority. Work some thing through at the pool, but do go out a try some stuff in conditions likely to test your theories. I'm presupposing we are talking about sea kayaking here. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think that would depend on the design of your deck. A kayak with a sharp peaked deck and hard sheers will probably rotate less than a boat that has a rounded deck and soft sheers. I like the way the sweep works to get me out of the water, and the fact that the boat pivots a bit is a symptom I'd rather deal with than the symptom of being inverted after a capsize! I guess it's a small problem for me--if it really worries you, you're probably better off doing the C-to-C, because worrying about where the boat is rotating when sweeping is not something you want to be doing while you should be concentrating on bringing the boat right-side-up! Shawn >This thread reminds me of a question. I learned to roll via a C to C and later >picked up the sweep roll. However, I don't like the way the sweep works because >the sweep of the paddle causes pivoting of the kayak as a whole, so that when I >emerge, the bow is not pointed in exactly the same direction as when I started. >I assumed a small amount of pivoting was unavoidable in the sweep, but maybe it's >just me: could more experienced sweepers comment? -- ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "Everything can be found at sea according to the spirit of your quest" -Joseph Conrad *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:00 AM 11/27/99 -0800, Ralph wrote: <snip> John chimmed in "Oh, don't worry >about that, Ralph. At the height of the Greenlandic kayaking culture, a >third or more of the kayakers could not roll at all." I don't think >John was advocating not learning to roll. To the contrary. I have also >heard him say something to the effect that x number of things happen to >you in a capsize if you wind up out of your boat, all of them _bad_. >But I just think it is worthwhile shedding more light on the historical >perspective. Ralph, I new in my bones when I posted last night that I would hear from you today, and I'm glad I did. Depending on where you paddle, what kind of boat you have, and what other recovery methods you have, you don't have to have the ability to roll. I was staying in the context of Duane's original post, which subscribed to us diehard rollers. As far as Inuit culture, you are right again (as always). By contrast, in our culture, maybe 1/3 of serious paddlers can roll well, and of those, a good percentage will blow their roll in combat situations. So, paddle with friends and partners, have some kind of back-up rescue system (such as paddle float or a reenter and roll, the Back Up device, etc). I'll try to refrain from making "sweeping" statements about ancient Greenlanders for whom I do not know much about. However, if I ever paddle in frigid Arctic waters, I'll be happy just to have one or two rolls that are reliable, thank you very much. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > > At 10:00 AM 11/27/99 -0800, Ralph wrote: > > <snip> John chimmed in "Oh, don't worry > >about that, Ralph. At the height of the Greenlandic kayaking culture, a > >third or more of the kayakers could not roll at all." I don't think > >John was advocating not learning to roll. To the contrary. I have also > >heard him say something to the effect that x number of things happen to > >you in a capsize if you wind up out of your boat, all of them _bad_. > >But I just think it is worthwhile shedding more light on the historical > >perspective. > > Ralph, > I new in my bones when I posted last night that I would hear from you > today, and I'm glad I did. Depending on where you paddle, what kind of boat > you have, and what other recovery methods you have, you don't have to have > the ability to roll. I was staying in the context of Duane's original post, > which subscribed to us diehard rollers. As far as Inuit culture, you are > right again (as always). By contrast, in our culture, maybe 1/3 of serious > paddlers can roll well, and of those, a good percentage will blow their > roll in combat situations. So, paddle with friends and partners, have some > kind of back-up rescue system (such as paddle float or a reenter and roll, > the Back Up device, etc). I'll try to refrain from making "sweeping" > statements about ancient Greenlanders for whom I do not know much about. > However, if I ever paddle in frigid Arctic waters, I'll be happy just to > have one or two rolls that are reliable, thank you very much. > I am glad you took my remark in the friendly, non-confrontational way that it was given, i.e. mainly as an addendum. There is no issue that a good reliable combat roll is the best thing to have and paddlers in kayaks that favor rolling easily should strive hard as they can to be in a position not to blow a roll. Or, better yet, if they blow one have enough skill to stay in their boat and give it another try, hanging out on their side catching their breath for further attempts. I believe John Heath is right on his remark about x things happen if you capsize and wind up out of your boat all of them bad or at least problematic. I am also glad you confirm the basic figure that I sense is correct about modern sea kayakers, i.e. that about 1/3 of the serious ones (whatever that means and I don't want to quarrel over the term) know how to roll and of these a goodly number will blew their roll when it counts under adverse conditions. Perhaps the remedy in rolling, whatever the particular types of roll, should be on dealing with a blown roll and still staying in your boat in a relaxed breathing position. I have watched good rollers do just that. There was one, for example, who decided to try rolling my K-Light. He approached it conservatively using his least fancy roll and then moved up to more elaborate ones. When he reached a point during these sessions in which a more complex roll would fail, he just dropped back down, caught his breath (if he needed to) and then switched to an Old Faithful roll. What impressed me the most in this case (and I saw it also with Maligiaq who blew, or better stated, didn't make an occasional roll as _graceful_ as he wanted, and just dropped down to half way to do it again) was, and is, the ability to not panic and to get set up again. If that in-between stage could really be taught well than even so-so rollers would probably be okay. While it is not a C to C roll, Matt Broze, if I recall correctly, has on his web site an approach to rolling that can take you to that in-between stage. He has you learning rolling in a backward order by starting at the point of a finished roll with head over the rear deck then dropping back into the water in reverse of a roll. All of this is like running a film backwards. It seems to get you into that in-between position with head facing up in the water bouyed up by your PFD and with paddle skimming out on the water. Of course, I don't know the least thing about rolling. So don't take my word for it. :-) ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
from rdiaz: > Perhaps the remedy in rolling, whatever the particular types of roll, > should be on dealing with a blown roll and still staying in your boat in a > relaxed breathing position. I have watched good rollers do just that. This is something I didn't think about until a few weeks ago, I was surf- practicing in some wierded up breakers, and capsized. But because I hadn't taken a few moments before I got in to the water to think about my roll, I ended up blowing it. Now, given how shallow our near shore water is, I don't actually regret wet exiting (bottom slamming is not a hobby of mine); but it did make me think about what I need to do in order to make my roll in bad conditions. I wonder if I'm alone in this, but when I do think about my roll for a minute before I get in the water, rolling is relatively easy. If I don't, then when I get dunked, I end up leaving out a piece of the puzzle, my knees aren't locked in, I forget to "snap", I forget to lean back, or forget to setup the paddle before giving it a go. Richard Walker Houston, TX http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Richard wrote: I wonder if I'm alone in this, but when I do think about my roll for a minute before I get in the water, rolling is relatively easy. If I don't, then when I get dunked, I end up leaving out a piece of the puzzle, my knees aren't locked in, I forget to "snap", I forget to lean back, or forget to setup the paddle before giving it a go. I can understand this. A couple of times now, returning to a surf beach after a day trip, the surf has risen to (for me) challenging heights. I have sat outside the surf zone and done a roll, so as to be ready if the bracing/broaching fails. A quick roll gets you in "combat" mode, and gets your body remembering what it knows. Rolling on, PT. " *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph D. wrote: > Perhaps the remedy in rolling, whatever the particular types of roll, > should be on dealing with a blown roll and still staying in your boat in > a relaxed breathing position. I have watched good rollers do just > that. This is a timely thread because I just learned something this past Friday about a sculling brace (is this the relaxed breathing position you are talking about?) that I didn't know before. In my past attempts at sculling, I would lean my boat further and further on edge, and arch my body (in a 'J') further away from the water. At some point, gravity would win and the boat would turn over completely and drive me under the water. In this position, I've not been able to keep my head above water to breath. After reading a web page sent to me by Greg Stamer: http://www.paddlers.com/references/refgreenland.htm I took a different approach and tried to keep the boat upright and arch myself in a 'J' towards the water. I soon had my ear in the water and using a sculling brace fairly easily at the surface. The trick was to keep my boat from going past the point of no return (on edge). The phrase "Once you learn how to roll, you'll probably never have to because will have learned how to properly brace" was *finally* starting to click. Your email has me thinking if this position would work in a blown roll attempt. In all the rolls I've blown (LOTS), I can't recall if the boat was past the point that it drives me back under water or not. I know I always end up completely upside down, but that's because I've never tried to turn it into a sculling brace. From my practice on Friday I did learn I could recover from a sculling brace just as easily as I could perform a roll. > While it is not a C to C roll, Matt Broze, if I recall correctly, has on > his web site an approach to rolling that can take you to that in-between > stage. Something I need to check out before my next practice. Thanks Ralph! Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert Woodard wrote: > > Ralph D. wrote: > > > Perhaps the remedy in rolling, whatever the particular types of roll, > > should be on dealing with a blown roll and still staying in your boat in > > a relaxed breathing position. I have watched good rollers do just > > that. > > This is a timely thread because I just learned something this past Friday > about a sculling brace (is this the relaxed breathing position you are > talking about?) that I didn't know before. > > In my past attempts at sculling, I would lean my boat further and further on > edge, and arch my body (in a 'J') further away from the water. At some > point, gravity would win and the boat would turn over completely and drive > me under the water. > > In this position, I've not been able to keep my head above water to breath. > After reading a web page sent to me by Greg Stamer: > > http://www.paddlers.com/references/refgreenland.htm Yes, this is pretty much it, what I see as the in-between state of a roll. When done well it actually seems to require very little sculling motion but I guess the experts are so good that they make it look easy. Borrowing some lines from Stamer's website identified above says it real well: ---------- You will find that your Greenland paddle makes it easy to keep the blade near the surface. Once you have mastered the general feel of sculling, you can experiment with getting your body closer and closer to the water. Use an extended grip on the paddle to increase your leverage. The object is to lower your upper body into the water so that your PFD supports your weight and sculling effort is reduced. This is known as the side scull. Sound tough? Try this: once you have lowered your body into the water, continue to scull while moving the sculling blade toward the bow of the boat. This will rotate your body so that your shoulders are parallel to the keel line and you are facing the sky. This is the back scull position. ---------- I wish you luck with this Woody! ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > I'll try to refrain from making "sweeping" > statements about ancient Greenlanders for whom I do not know much about. Some of us know a great deal about the north's ancient cultures, Doug, all courtesy of the dear Professor, and I am sure that he would never mislead us or publish unfactual information. :-) John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I prefer to sweep roll on either side too. I don't know if I'm more comfortable with it due to the fact that it is the first roll I learned, or if it's due to the merits of the roll itself. I can C-to-C roll, and reverse sweep to both sides (less reliably than the regular sweep on both sides). Shawn Baker Not really an active-duty combat roller. More of a reservist! Strosaker wrote: >I would like to read input from other sea kayakers about what kind of rolls >they depend on for combat. > >Duane Strosaker >Not Certified at All -- ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "Everything can be found at sea according to the spirit of your quest" -Joseph Conrad *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph, For a non-roller, you have a surprisingly good notion of what happens while rolling! (And I say that in a genuine way) I don't have a perfect offside roll. About 1/3 of the time when I blow an offside roll, I fear I'm out of air and I panic and grab the grab loop. The other 2/3 of the time, when I remember to relax, I'm often right in good setup position for an onside roll, and I just pop back up. I don't think rolling in and of itself is a cure-all, but it sure makes "pushing your limits" while learning bracing and sculling a lot more comfortable, because I know that if I go over too far, I can just roll back up. Shawn Ralph Diaz wrote: >I am glad you took my remark in the friendly, non-confrontational way >that it was given, i.e. mainly as an addendum. > >There is no issue that a good reliable combat roll is the best thing to >have and paddlers in kayaks that favor rolling easily should strive hard >as they can to be in a position not to blow a roll. Or, better yet, if >they blow one have enough skill to stay in their boat and give it >another try, hanging out on their side catching their breath for further >attempts. I believe John Heath is right on his remark about x things >happen if you capsize and wind up out of your boat all of them bad or at >least problematic. > >I am also glad you confirm the basic figure that I sense is correct >about modern sea kayakers, i.e. that about 1/3 of the serious ones >(whatever that means and I don't want to quarrel over the term) know how >to roll and of these a goodly number will blew their roll when it counts >under adverse conditions. -- ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "Everything can be found at sea according to the spirit of your quest" -Joseph Conrad *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Back sweeping brace stroke: With regards to what to do with a blown roll, you might try the following exercise at your next rolling practice. Just when you think your roll is about to fail, turn the blade over and do a back sweeping brace stroke (followed by a forward sweep if necessary). This uses the back of the blade, not the power face like a skulling stroke. It is particularly helpful for sweep style rollers who don't quite finish. I recommend practicing alternating forward and reverse bracing (not skulling) first to get the feel of quickly reversing the blade angle. > > > Perhaps the remedy in rolling, whatever the particular types of roll, > > > should be on dealing with a blown roll and still staying in your boat in > > > a relaxed breathing position. I have watched good rollers do just > > > that. > > > > This is a timely thread because I just learned something this past Friday > > about a sculling brace (is this the relaxed breathing position you are > > talking about?) that I didn't know before. > > > > In my past attempts at sculling, I would lean my boat further and further on > > edge, and arch my body (in a 'J') further away from the water. At some > > point, gravity would win and the boat would turn over completely and drive > > me under the water. > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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