I guess like others on this list, I have run into situations when you see someone doing something somewhat risky in sea kayaking and you have to decide whether to speak up or not. At one time, I was quite vocal but felt increasingly that I was sounding like a spoilsport or grouch and started laying off. The other day was an example. The Downtown Boathouse has a number of kayaks that were donated by a publication with a stylistic approach to recreation and other life style pursuits in its writing and layouts. The understanding is that the magazine staff, which doesn't seem to have anyone over 30 years old (although I am certain there are a few past the Big Three Oh) can use these boats any time that they are not earmarked for the public program. Trouble is that while they are enthusiastic and gung ho, they tend to lack paddling skills, traffic & river savvy and much in the way of an idea of cold water clothing and other safety considerations for self rescue (I remember the astonishment of one of the "senior" ones who had been paddling for a year when he first tried pressing down with a borrowed paddle float, "Look at this, wow, it holds you up!). On the latter, they may be learning but regular members of the Boathouse constantly find themselves wincing over the impervious outlook of the mag staff toward paddling. For example, one Boathouse regular was about to go paddling at dusk when the mag crowd showed up and was ready to embark without so much as a little keychain squeeze light among them let alone even a modicum of adequate lighting. He finally decided to say something and then lent them some extra lights he has around. He paddled out with them to be around for just in case but then got the willies over how they were paddling (I didn't ask what exactly gave him the feeling) that he just left them after awhile. The other day it was my turn to play Scrouge with members of the young mag staff. I was getting ready to go paddling when I saw them coming in from a paddling trip. They were all wearing shorts and cotton T-shirts and had to have landed obliviously next to a small group on the launching dock that was going out in Polartec Thermal Stretch suits, paddling jackets etc. I was readying my own shorty version (with jacket) of the same. (Water temperature was around 55 degrees.) I decided to speak up as diplomatically as I could but the words still sounded like I was being a mean old crank or so it seemed to me in the reflection of their wide open innocent eyes. I felt like a parent saying wash your hands before supper, clean your room, etc. You know the look kids give in such situations. I can imagine their saying to each other when they got out of my earshot "Who was that old fart and what was he talking about?" This is a problem experienced/prepared paddlers run into. I remember reading in Anorak an article by a respected paddler typifying the situation. He and a group of experienced paddlers were setting out at the same time as another. The experienced kayakers had on dry suits and wet suits and kayaks decked out with tow ropes, bilge pumps, paddle floats, etc. The guy was in jeans and windbreakers with not much in the way of safety gear evident. It did not occur to him that these experienced guys may have known something he didn't about safety etc. Kinda like the laws of nature and the sea did not apply to him. The author of the article pondered to himself, agonizingly so, whether to say something and finally did in as a non-confrontational manner as he could...and he is a diplomatic mild-mannered fellow. So some questions: 1. Should one speak up always when confronted with such situations of pretty off-the-mark paddling approaches? I don't mean talking with someone who is wearing a farmer john when you think the situation calls for a full suit or not having spare paddles etc. i.e. incremental differences rather than wholesale ones. I mean something very basic like seeing some one with jeans and windbreakers in Northeast paddling in December. 2. What is the best way of vocalizing the dichotomy between their oblivious paddling approach and a more prudent approach that experienced paddlers tend to adhere to? I have sometimes thought about things to say in imaginary scenarios but when confronted with a real situation, the words tend to come out wierd, i.e. doctrinaire sounding, pontificating, scolding, etc. Give it a try and you will see what I mean. ralph diaz ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > I guess like others on this list, I have run into situations when you > see someone doing something somewhat risky in sea kayaking and you have > to decide whether to speak up or not. <snip> > > So some questions: > > 1. Should one speak up always when confronted with such situations of > pretty off-the-mark paddling approaches? Off the cuff answer: yes. What's the worst that could happen? Some jerk blows you off as a tight-arsed old fogey (well, maybe worse things things happen in NYC ;) ). What's the worst thing that could happen if you don't? The jerk gets hurt or dies, and you know you might have been able to prevent it. I first typed "could have prevented it," but I'm backing down from that; it's not that certain. Do I always do it? No. > > 2. What is the best way of vocalizing the dichotomy between their > oblivious paddling approach and a more prudent approach that experienced > paddlers tend to adhere to? My technique is to use "I" and avoid "You". So rather than say "You're going to freeze your butt off dressed like that", perhaps say "I went out dressed like that once and froze my butt off. Nearly died of hypothermia and spent the night in the ER. Hasn't happened since I bought this neat Fuzzy Rubber suit." Note that this personal revelation does not actually have to be true. As much as possible, it helps to try to blur the line between oblivious and experienced, at least as far as the person standing in front of you is concerned. So it may not be useful to start out with "Yesee, son, I've been paddling these here waters for nigh onto 25 years, and..." because the inescapable conclusion of the listener is "...and you haven't, so you're inferior to me." Especially if the listener is a male accompanied by a female, as these types have a strong need to know everything, and therefore _must_ reject advice, as following it would prove the contrary. These suggestions apply to casual contacts, not to members of the party I'm paddling with. There I want to be much more direct: "You're not dressed warmly enough for immersion. Put some more clothes on or you're not going with me." YMMV. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Some posters suggested holding a cold water workshop. The Boathouse is doing that in a few weeks, free of charge, through the good offices of Randy Henriksen and his New York Kayak shop, which has arranged for an RN to speak and also demo dry suits and polartec suits, etc. Randy also has a presentation, which I have not seen, regarding assessing risks, equipment, skills etc. in some sort of index or matrix, I think. Randy said something in passing about equipment is not enough, meaning, I think, that cold water gear and safety gear are not enough. If so, I agree as this is the sage point raise by our own John Winters and the confidence it may give to do risky things that person is not skilled enought to handle...but that is another story...some passive safety aids like cold water clothing can't really hurt. Randy also with principals at the Boathouse, mainly Tim Gamble who is informally in charge of safety issues, have run several self- and assisted rescue classes free of charge over the summer after work. The mag staff did come to one of the rescue ones, which we were all glad to see them do as they did not have an inkling of what to do and had been going out for a year in all sorts of conditions without this basic skill. I did stress to the mag people I ran into last week that they should very much attend the free cold water work shop. One of them who seemed to be at least listening a bit said she would attend. The Boathouse does have some general rules posted but maybe they should be more stressed in big block letters. There is a general rule to wear a PFD, for example, and it is enforced with the public boat program but not so much with people in their own boats using the site for launching. We are tightening up specifically with the public boats in the public program; but the rest of the time there is no safety cop around. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > >BIG SNIP< > So some questions: > > 1. Should one speak up always when confronted with such situations of > pretty off-the-mark paddling approaches? I don't mean talking with > someone who is wearing a farmer john when you think the situation calls > for a full suit or not having spare paddles etc. i.e. incremental > differences rather than wholesale ones. I mean something very basic > like seeing some one with jeans and windbreakers in Northeast paddling > in December. I sometimes wonder if telling people what is good for them isn't counter productive, much of the times. People are snowed under with rules, legistation, laws, and orances sp?, until most just want a tiny bit of say so in what they do. I would guess paddling is one of those things. I'm not suggesting that there are right ways or safe ways to do it, just that sometimes being able to make a mistake or two is part of the learning curve. ..and if it's fatal, well..it was that persons choice. If someone sees everyone doing something one way and decides to do it someother way, don't you think maybe it was a concious thought? I can only conpare this to the motorcycle helment debate. Most would agree that a helment will protect your head..? , but I have seen people blasting along the hyways with one on and wearing shorts, no shirt, thongs, and have some little thing on the back, barefooted and a halter top. Got them helments on tho! :-( If the kayaking communty wants to have laws that says you have to dress a certain way and carry certain things, well fine. You still can't legislate common sence or even half way good judgement calls. My personal opinion is to help pass on help and information to those that ask, but don't try to cram it down those that likely don't. I've been told to dress for emersion. I know that, I've been in freezing water and work at not repeating the exsperance. I've also had 93 stitches in my face from a bike wreck, but I still won't wear a helment. If some clown came up to me at the lake and told me I wasn't dressed corectly.., on a good day I would just smile and walk away. I guess I just say lighten up or work to pass laws. They seem to be the American way. James, wouldn't have done anything if I'd waited for proper instruction(or approval) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James Lofton wrote: > > If the kayaking communty wants to have laws that says you have to dress a > certain way and carry certain things, well fine. You still can't > legislate common sence or even half way good judgement calls. > Actually, you can. Look at the emergence of state laws on using seat belts, and even better, using car child restraints. Wearing a seat belt is for me common sense, but lots of other people are doing it now only because they risk getting a ticket if they don't. But the kayaking community certainly doesn't want laws dictating dress and equipment requirements. However, it would have only taken one highly visible hypothermia induced drowning in NY Harbor (and you know who I'm thinking about) to have Rudy & Co. clamoring for laws to protect us from ourselves. If we can keep our comrades safe through education, we don't need laws. Those two paragraphs may sound contradictory, but bear in mind that if people had worn seatbelts when they were invented, we wouldn't have need to have airbags. > My personal opinion is to help pass on help and information to those that > ask, but don't try to cram it down those that likely don't. > I have to agree, and in that spirit...James, I always wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle. I know that the ground is harder than my head. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:43 PM 11/2/99 -0800, James Lofton wrote: > >I can only conpare this to the motorcycle helment debate. Most would >agree that a helment will protect your head..? , but I have seen people >blasting along the hyways with one on and wearing shorts, no shirt, >thongs, and have some little thing on the back, barefooted and a halter >top. Got them helments on tho! :-( Michigan has a helmet law. Indiana does not. You want to see the flash of brake lights when bikers go into Indiana from Michigan and stop to take helmets off? >If the kayaking communty wants to have laws that says you have to dress a >certain way and carry certain things, well fine. You still can't >legislate common sence or even half way good judgement calls. Too many laws. Too many rules. I know there are people around that would gladly ask the legislature to mandate that a kayaker wear a dry suit if the water temperature is under 65 degrees, absolutely across the board. The day the legislature passes that law is the day I give up kayaking. Too much of this stuff that's jammed down our throats is stuff where the people pushing the "reform" give no one else any credit for any common sense. >My personal opinion is to help pass on help and information to those that >ask, but don't try to cram it down those that likely don't. > >I've been told to dress for emersion. I know that, I've been in freezing >water and work at not repeating the exsperance. I've also had 93 stitches >in my face from a bike wreck, but I still won't wear a helment. That's your call. And it's good that you can make the call. Yes, I sometimes go out in a kayak on water under 65 degrees without a drysuit. In fact, I usually don't start thinking wetsuit until it's somewhat colder. Yes, I've had hypothermia, too (granted, it was from standing in an ice-cold river trying to remove a strainer with a chainsaw). But, there are some conditions where it might well be warmer that I'd want one. It's my call -- not some officious yahoo's decision to make for me. >If some clown came up to me at the lake and told me I wasn't dressed >corectly.., on a good day I would just smile and walk away. Could not agree more. I would suspect that that's the sort of person that I really don't much want to be around, anyway. >I guess I just say lighten up or work to pass laws. They seem to be the >American way. > >James, wouldn't have done anything if I'd waited for proper >instruction(or approval) > -- Wes, who's going to hop in the car, not put on a seat belt, run down to the corner to pick up a pack of cigarettes, and maybe stop and look at the Harley the guy has got for sale on the way. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> 1. Should one speak up always when confronted with such situations of > pretty off-the-mark paddling approaches? Tough call. Which makes you feel better at the end of the day - saying nothing, or being thought of as an old fart? > 2. What is the best way of vocalizing the dichotomy between their > oblivious paddling approach and a more prudent approach that experienced > paddlers tend to adhere to? I have sometimes thought about things to > say in imaginary scenarios but when confronted with a real situation, > the words tend to come out wierd, i.e. doctrinaire sounding, > pontificating, scolding, etc. Give it a try and you will see what I > mean. Remember me from last winter? I think if it hadn't been for some unnamed old fart (and a few other old farts from this list), I might not be sitting here waiting for some cold weather to try out my brand new dry suit. I was pretty hard headed last winter (this hasn't changed) and got pounded on pretty hard, but it somehow eventually started to sink in. I met up a few weeks ago with a brand new kayaker for an outing. Myself and my regular paddling partner were in wet suits, the new person in bicycle shorts. Since I had a new boat I took the opportunity to wet exit and practice paddlefloat reentry. The water was pretty cold, but not so cold that my wetsuit didn't warm up once flooded. My partner and I talked with the new person about cold weather gear kind of casually, but I think you're right Ralph, it does come out sounding like a scolding. At one point I just had to let it go because I thought if I kept it up the person might not want to paddle with me again, and I'd rather have the opportunity to lay it on thinly than not at all. Woody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote: > > James Lofton wrote: > > > > If the kayaking communty wants to have laws that says you have to dress a > > certain way and carry certain things, well fine. You still can't > > legislate common sence or even half way good judgement calls. > > > Actually, you can. Look at the emergence of state laws on using seat > belts, and even better, using car child restraints. Wearing a seat belt > is for me common sense, but lots of other people are doing it now only > because they risk getting a ticket if they don't. > Yes, and the last time I drove into town I believe I saw more than a few "loose" drivers out there. It is also against the law to kill someone. > But the kayaking community certainly doesn't want laws dictating dress > and equipment requirements. However, it would have only taken one highly > visible hypothermia induced drowning in NY Harbor (and you know who I'm > thinking about) to have Rudy & Co. clamoring for laws to protect us from > ourselves. If we can keep our comrades safe through education, we don't > need laws. > This exacatly what I meant. There is probably nothing that that has closer moninotering (cheee! training)that the aviaition community, yet look what happens when you give someone a piece of paper that says, "you got what it takes now". Good judgement is learned/acuaried, or some just flat lucks out and gets it through osmosis. Some have an angel. But it can't be crammed down someones throat. > Those two paragraphs may sound contradictory, but bear in mind that if > people had worn seatbelts when they were invented, we wouldn't have need > to have airbags. > I think we need seat belts and air bags because the average person is too darn stupid to react to a crash about to happen. So there you have it. Make it a law to get trained to start and steer the thing. A law to put on the seat belt. A law to have insurance, so everyone is protected and will be paid. People feel coumfortable about it all and die by the truck load every day. Maybe in due time we can get this far with kayaking.:-) > > My personal opinion is to help pass on help and information to those that > > ask, but don't try to cram it down those that likely don't. > > > I have to agree, and in that spirit...James, I always wear a helmet when > I ride a motorcycle. I know that the ground is harder than my head. > Darn right it is. I have buried more than one friend that was wearing his on that last moment, tho. Some without too. Maybe no right or wrong answer. I just love my freedom and sometime this conversation gets a bit too close to saying, lets legislate to save us all, or do it this way or we'll need laws to protect us. I personally think it's a pretty safe sport, IF everyone would tip-toe up their own learning curve. Someone on this list said a while back, that this is an outdoor sport, so why does it attract so many non outdoor types..? I agree. Dressing them in drysuits and PFD's will only make them suffer longer when they do get in trouble. James > Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Great topic Ralph. You seem to have struck a nerve or two here. To not say anything would be negligent. Period. You're dealing with ignorance in it's purist form. Folks who don't know better. They can't be blamed for that. Would you yell at a kid walking into a street full of traffic? Will they think you're an "old fart"? Will they not send you Christmas cards this year? How many did they send last year? Do you work at the Downtown Boathouse to be "popular" or to pass on skills? Being the "cop" when you see people risking their lives through ignorance goes with the territory gained through your experience. Try asking them how long they can expect to stay conscious in water at the temp of the day. If they know, fine, take your chances. If they don't, well.................. Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > 1. Should one speak up always when confronted with such situations of > pretty off-the-mark paddling approaches? I don't mean talking with > someone who is wearing a farmer john when you think the situation calls > for a full suit or not having spare paddles etc. i.e. incremental > differences rather than wholesale ones. I mean something very basic > like seeing some one with jeans and windbreakers in Northeast paddling > in December. My vote: yes. What if a tragedy occurred, and you knew you MIGHT have prevented it? (Basically a selfish reason, of course, since probably you won't influence them at that time. But you might start them thinking about it for next time. Some of us have to be nagged just a bit ;-) > 2. What is the best way of vocalizing the dichotomy between their > oblivious paddling approach and a more prudent approach that experienced > paddlers tend to adhere to? How about a cordial conversation, including something like, "Wow, you must be really chilly after you roll that boat, you LIKE <big smile> that kind of thing, huh?" and if they say they don't plan on getting wet, a thoughtful pause, and "Um, how often do you paddle around here?" I.e., not direct advice, unless they ask for it, but some questions to start them thinking on their own. Of course one could say they're apparently not capable of that, but some folks are just more careless than stupid. Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 1:38 PM -0800 11/2/99, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >1. Should one speak up always when confronted with such situations of >pretty off-the-mark paddling approaches? I don't mean talking with >someone who is wearing a farmer john when you think the situation calls >for a full suit or not having spare paddles etc. i.e. incremental >differences rather than wholesale ones. I mean something very basic >like seeing some one with jeans and windbreakers in Northeast paddling >in December. > >2. What is the best way of vocalizing the dichotomy between their >oblivious paddling approach and a more prudent approach that experienced >paddlers tend to adhere to? I have sometimes thought about things to >say in imaginary scenarios but when confronted with a real situation, >the words tend to come out wierd, i.e. doctrinaire sounding, >pontificating, scolding, etc. Give it a try and you will see what I >mean. > >ralph diaz I have a suggestion that may or may not be appreciated! In the interest of safety perhaps someone who is a member of the boathouse could make a rules proposal requiring those who paddle after a certain date, say Oct 15th, MUST wear either wet or dry suits while paddling from the boathouse proper or using boathouse equipment. I know that in the past, requiring people to do something that will save their life has gone over like a lead baloon but the boathouse is not a club per se. I mean, the boathouse has a requirement for only paddling in the enbayment so why not a requirement for using / wearing safety gear also? Craig Poole S/V Evensong a 1967 Moody 36 Halberdier Ketch Liberty Harbor Marina Jersey City, NJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have listened to a lot of great responses to this question, so, for what it's worth, I will add my .002 cents worth. 1. As was proposed by another, a formal workshop should be offered to the magazine/company who is responsible for the employees. I firmly believe that there should be a charge for this as any company would be charged for a workshop/seminar. This is how it's value and importance is determined in the corporate enviroment and will impact follow up. Free stuff is generally percieved as valueless. Even if they choose not to schedule the workshop, they will consider the situation seriously if the proposal was written with all the anecdotal information about the cavalier attitude of it's employees. 2. Encourage the company to schedule an end/beginning of season formal paddle (at the boathouse's determination) for their employees when they can safely deal with water temperatures. -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am very hard minded, if it comes to paddle or cycling with *me*. I tell the people that *I* will not go out together with them, if they are not prepared for the situation. But I do not tell them, that I am worried about *their* health, I tell them that I don't want to be the one dealing with rescues or at worst with their dead body. I will not be the one who has to change his plans because they are ill prepared. I don't want to pay for their ignorance. I do this in every case I have serious doubts about peoples skills and/or if they are not proper dressed and equipped. Its another thing with people I see going out ill prepared. It depends on my feelings, sometimes I talk to them sometimes not sometimes harsh or really friendly. In spring I was at a meeting of folding kayakers. There where about 50 paddlers. It was a very unstable weather with sunny hours but also heavy rain and wind every day. We met at a lake in eastern Germany, and the water was not very cold (I think about 12 degrees Celsius) but too cold for a long swim without a wetsuit. There were only 6 paddlers of all wearing a pfd, three of them were with me. Its useless to talk to people, having paddled for years and going out underdressed in such a crowd. One guy, about 25 years old asked us if we had no confidence in our boats, because we had wet- or drysuits, pfd, towing rope etc. I did not answer him anything. He went out with a cotton sweatshirt and trousers, without rainclothes, without a sprayscirt on his boat and of course lacking rescue gear at all. We did not see him the whole day until we met him on our way back in a lock. Back on the open lake we had a good headwind and some rain, it had become cold in the late afternoon. We stayed then with that guy who was absolutely cold having real problems paddling against the wind. We would not leave him alone because we were not sure if he was able to paddle back. We were ready to tow him but we decided to wait until he would ask or it was obvious that he would not make it home alone. He did make it, slowly and shivering, and we never changed a word. Perhaps he has learned something but I doubt it. -- Rainer Schroeter, Marburg, Germany *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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