I'm giving an evening seminar at my local kayak club next week on fiberglass repairs, alterations, fix ups, etc. I was wondering if what I plan on talking about and demonstrating aligns with what other kayakers are doing for repairs. Some questions: 1. Deep hull scratches - I normally use a gel coat filler (this is the paste variety, not the thin stuff), commercially available to match hull color (usually white). You simply mix it with hardener, and apply sparingly. You must mix only small amounts at a time. Does anyone use any other product? 2. Excessive keel-line wear (usually near the stern) - I will either use thick multiple layers of gel coat fill (thick stuff), or add cloth impregnated with resin, then perhaps top off with gel coat fill. Does anyone do it differently. I know one fellow who uses the thinner gel coat resin, and works it right into the cloth, rather than using the clear resin with the cloth. Any thoughts? 3. There was a discussion a while back, with reference to a product one could apply to the wear points on the rear keel area. Anyone remember the name of the product. It wasn't part of the normal fiberglass repair product "family". 4. Anyone have ideas/suggestions/experience with glassing-in thigh support within the inside diameter of the cockpit opening? 5. If you were attending a seminar, what would you like to see covered/explained/demonstrated? Thanks in advance. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, I haven't yet done any repairs on my glass kayak -- this is the first composite kayak I have owned. But I've done lots of fiberglass repairs on other kinds of boats, and I have some ideas regarding how I will make repairs on the kayak, once they become necessary. > 1. Deep hull scratches - I normally use a gel coat filler [snip] If I was certain of a close color match, I might do this. But I much prefer plain old epoxy with fillers. I use Raka epoxy for most of what I do, and sometimes use West System also. I mostly use West fillers -- they make a good selection of fillers that have been carefully developed for particular uses. For something like this, I'd probably use one of the light colored, non-structural low-density fillers (like 406, the colloidal silica). For color, I'd use some of those little tubes of coloring agents made by Evercoat that you can get at any chain "chandlery" and mix them up until I got as close a match as I could. The sequence is: get the coloring mixed as close as possible in a little plastic bowl; then mix the epoxy separately, then mix in the filler, then mix in the color. Then apply very sparingly. I'd probably put masking tape around the area to be filled so as to minimize overflow. I think this makes an overall better repair than mere "gel coat filler." > 2. Excessive keel-line wear (usually near the stern) - I will either > use thick multiple layers of gel coat fill (thick stuff), or add cloth > impregnated with resin, then perhaps top off with gel coat fill. I would do this mostly the same as I would do hull scratches, except that I would use the cloth as well, depending on the severity of the wear. Again, I just don't really like working with polyester, and I think epoxy makes a much stronger repair. If I were using a filler, I'd go with one of the structural West fillers, probably 404. I might even go with graphite powder. Depending on the repair, I might use fiberglass "matt" rather than cloth, or perhaps a heavier cloth, like 9 oz. By the way, for those who haven't done much of this, it really pays to use the "tape" instead of just getting sheets of the cloth. Raka sells tape in various widths and weights, as do other companies (System Three, Mass, etc). You get a much cleaner result, and you don't have to worry about all those loose fibers on the edges. As for other methods, I do remember someone here saying they added a very small "keel" on the bottom to protect against scratches and that it had an unexpected (but good) result on performance. If I were doing this (which I might consider) I would probably just do a build-up of fiberglass/epoxy, but another method might be to mount a bronze strip along the bottom. This is often done on dinghies, and you can get the stuff pretty much anywhere. > 5. If you were attending a seminar, what would you like to see > covered/explained/demonstrated? I have been working with fiberglass for so long most of it is second nature to me. I sometimes have to work to remind myself of how little the average person knows about these products -- even the average boater. Even the average do-it-yourself boater. So whenever I'm giving instruction on this kind of thing I try to give a thorough lesson in what the products are and how they work. As in: "there are two types of resins, polyester and epoxy..." etc. There are countless little questions that come up -- "does epoxy stick to [this or that]; is it waterproof or do you have to put gelcoat on?" etc. So I would think this would be a good component of your lecture. A good grounding in how the products work. Perhaps some reference to some of the good books that are out there. A couple of the books I like are: Jack Wiley, "Modifying Fiberglass Boats" (this is a classic, to the extent such a thing can exist in this little world of boat repair) Jack Wiley, "The Fiberglass Repair and Construction Handbook" Allan Vaitses, "The Fiberglass Boat Repair Manual" (a more "modern" "classic") Don Casey, "Sailboat Refinishing" (very basic stuff, good beginner book) Paul & Marya Butler, "Fine Boat Finishes" (this is an excellent little book) Obviously, a lot of this material is directed toward sailboaters. But much of the content is more general and would apply to composite boats of any type. Given the relative newness of composite kayaks, I think these books are likely to contain the best info out there on the subject. By the way, another little book that is really excellent is "Runabout Rennovation" by Jim Anderson. As much as I dislike those noisey little stinkpotters, the book is surprisingly good and contains much general information about fiberglass repair and refinishing. So, there's a few thoughts for ya, Doug. Anything else I can do please let me know. Mark Lane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > > ... > 1. Deep hull scratches - I normally use a gel coat filler (this is the > paste variety, not the thin stuff), commercially available to match hull > color (usually white). ... Does anyone use any other product? I use gel coat. ("Ack!", you say.) I have a yellow hull whose color is difficult to match, but I find that using gel coat from the manufacturer matches well and is easy to work with. I rough up the gouge (if it is not already rough) and clean it out, mix the gel coat with the hardener, apply it with an appropriate sized tool (small!) and then cover it with acetate film taped firmly over the repair. When the film is removed it which leaves a nice shiny surface. Hint: Don't apply too much gel coat or it will ooze out of the gouge and you will have to sand it flush and then polish it to get a shiny surface. (This is not difficult, but it is time consuming.) I have never had a gel coat repair fail. I should note that most professionals do not use gel coat--they tend to use various "shortcuts"--and perhaps if I were repairing a lot of boats I would too. But I suggest that folks give gel coat a try before dismissing it. If you have the right touch you can get a near perfect repair with only modest effort. Doug continues: > 2. Excessive keel-line wear (usually near the stern) - I will either > use thick multiple layers of gel coat fill (thick stuff), or add cloth > impregnated with resin, then perhaps top off with gel coat fill. Does > anyone do it differently? ... I use Marine-Tex Epoxy Putty along the stern keel (which gets a lot of abuse on my boat). This is a putty--not the liquid stuff that some folks were discussing a while back. It contains fibers that make it very abrasion resistant. I have added quite a thick "rail", which is slowly becoming thinner over time. It is more difficult than gel coat to apply evenly because it is exceptionally "gooey", but it can be sanded to shape once it it hardens. (Use a good respirator mask when sanding.) Here is a description of the product: http://www.marinetex.com/marine_tex.htm Gel coat colors can be added to the mix, but I have not had good luck with this. It can be painted, but the paint will wear off along the rub surface. A third alternative is to top it off with gel coat. This is much more difficult, however, than filling gouges with gel coat. A while back someone mentioned that it is possible to mix up one's own repair putty at lower cost. This may be, but the absolute cost of the Marine-Tex putty is quite low (given the quantities required), and the Marine-Tex folks seem to have developed an excellent mix of fibers, epoxy, etc. I do not see any reason to try to invent my own formulation in order to save a few bucks. As always, YMMV. Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have considered using two part "Marine-Tex" epoxy with a mask to build up a hard "keel strip" near the stern on my Falcon 18. Epoxy should bind well to glass and it is much harder than gelcoat. Haven't tried it yet. Robert > From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:37:34 -0700 > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Hull Repairs > > 2. Excessive keel-line wear (usually near the stern) - I will either > use thick multiple layers of gel coat fill (thick stuff), or add cloth > impregnated with resin, then perhaps top off with gel coat fill. Does > anyone do it differently. I know one fellow who uses the thinner gel > coat resin, and works it right into the cloth, rather than using the > clear resin with the cloth. Any thoughts? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What, if anything would you carry on an expedition for boat repairs? Robert > From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 23:37:34 -0700 > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: [Paddlewise] Hull Repairs > > 5. If you were attending a seminar, what would you like to see > covered/explained/demonstrated? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duct tape. "It ain't broke, it just lacks a little duct tape." Seriously, I've carry some fiberglass cloth and/or tape, and some epoxy with quick setting hardener. Something that will set up under water could be useful, but i don't know if the technology has gone that far yet. Steve Featherkile Robert C. Cline wrote: > What, if anything would you carry on an expedition for boat repairs? > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yes. The technology is here. It is used by plumbers. I've seen the stuff but never seen it used. It's called plumber's ....something or other, maybe plumber's bond?? Plumber's patch... plumbers tape??? Dunno. > From: Steven Featherkile <madwolf_at_earthlink.net> > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:49:10 -0700 > To: "Robert C. Cline" <rccline_at_swbell.net> > Cc: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hull Repairs > > Something that will set up under water could be useful, > but i don't know if the technology has gone that far yet. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<It's called plumber's ....something or other, maybe plumber's bond?? Plumber's patch... plumbers tape??? Dunno.> Denzo tape. My local plumber's supply house denies its existence. But it's available from GRO. Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bill Hansen responded to this question: <<<It's called plumber's ....something or other, maybe plumber's bond?? Plumber's patch... plumbers tape??? Dunno.>>> Bill's answer: <Denzo tape. My local plumber's supply house denies its existence. But it's available from GRO.> On our trip down from Bella Bella to Port Hardy, one of the kayaks was experiencing leakage difficulty in the heavy, pounding seas (this was prior to the infamous crossing). One of the trip's participants, who was experiencing the problems with his Arluk, had some of the Denzo tape in his repair kit. It is relatively expensive stuff, but with qualities that make it ideal for in-the-field repairs he was told. While I'm sure the product works well wrapped around leaking pipes and such things as would arise during emergency pluming repairs, it certainly _did not_ work in our situation. I could give you verbatim what we said about the product while attempting to use in north of Cape Caution, but Jackie probably has filters on those exact words! We eventually used fiberglass resin and cloth, using a "bon fire" as a heat source. One of the repairs required the use of a rubber glove over the bow tip of the kayak to keep water off, due to the long set-up time. Looked like a condom -- looked like an add for safe sex kayaking :-) I typically carry epoxy for repair work, with glass resin backup. West System has some nice little epoxy repair kits, sealed and ready for use. Shelf life is good. Fiberglass repair kits (with resin) need to be well sealed in a container to prevent contamination of your gear (I have some terrible stories here), and rotated as shelf life is poor. Use high quality resins. Make sure you bring some small disposable "acid" brushes. They are about 1/2 inch wide, with tin-metal handle. The unlucky repair jockey on our trip had to use his bare hands with the resin -- not a pretty sight, and added to the plethora of expletives deleted. (His disposable gloves lasted one minute). When I do complex fiberglass repairs at home that precludes the use of gloves, I use a barrier hand protection product, using three to four applications, dried between applications before proceeding; I get easy clean up, good dexterity and control, and only a bit of cancer :-) BTW, thanks to everyone for all the hull repair posts and e-mails, both back channel and otherwise. I will not respond to individual back-channel e-mails, as I have hours and hours of prep work for my little seminar next week. Thanks for "bonding together" everyone :-) I'm enjoying the rolling thread too (my answer: buy a Nordkapp, you will have no choice but to learn to roll real fast!). BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What's a barrier hand protection? Like artificial skin? > From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:31:03 -0700 > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hull Repairs: "something or other" > > I use a > barrier hand protection product, using three to four applications, dried > between applications before proceeding; I get easy clean up, good > dexterity and control, and only a bit of cancer :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert Cline asks: <What, if anything would you carry on an expedition for boat repairs?> Without going down to my "repair pack", which pretty much stays packed between my infrequent trips, the following: Denzo tape; duct tape; 18 gauge steel wire; two wire clamps; two small hose clamps; about 50 feet of strong string; an epoxy "ding stick" which will set up in cold/wet conditions; a small kit of 6 oz glass cloth, epoxy & catalyst, latex gloves etc; sailmakers' needles, a little plastic "pusher" for the needles, dental floss as the "thread"; a cheap imitaion of a "Leatherman" multi-purpose tool; hacksaw blade broken in half; good sharp knife. ..... There are probably a couple of other things I can't think of right now. (CRS syndrome takes its toll. That's why the kit stays packed!) Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I'm giving an evening seminar at my local kayak club next week on > fiberglass repairs, alterations, fix ups, etc. I was wondering if what I > plan on talking about and demonstrating aligns with what other kayakers > are doing for repairs. Some questions: > > snippage < > > 5. If you were attending a seminar, what would you like to see > covered/explained/demonstrated? > Depends on who the audience is. If your audience has at least some 'glassing experience, you can safely go into more detail on any/all aspects of fiberglass repair. If the audience largely consists of folks who have never done any fiberglassing work, some show-and-tell would be very appropriate: -- show them how resins are mixed -- let them see/smell epoxy, polyester resins, and gelcoat -- let them feel/see/smell a batch of resin that 'goes off' -- let them see cured films of all of the above -- let them see fiberglass cloth/tape/mat of different weights -- some advance preparation in preparing cured test swatches of one, two, and three layer cloth would be instructive. And if one goes this far, it would also be worth adding some mat and woven roving for comparison. If there are multiple test swatches, folks can play with bending/folding the swatches to failure (with care - don't want any punctured/sliced fingers. Adding other senses (seeing, feeling, smelling) into the presentation will provide much more impact and better recall. But wait - you said this was an evening seminar..... DO find the time to stress that human skin and lungs should not come into contact with any of these substances (even when sanding the stuff), and that fiberglassing is 95% preparation and 5% 'hurry-up'. Regards, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Erik wrote: > From: Erik Sprenne <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> > Reply-To: Erik Sprenne <sprenne_at_netnitco.net> > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 19:30:17 -0500 > To: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_telus.net> > Cc: paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hull Repairs > > DO find the time to stress that human skin and lungs should not come into > contact with any of these substances (even when sanding the stuff), and that > fiberglassing is 95% preparation and 5% 'hurry-up'. On my first experience with fiberglass, I tried with great care to get the resin wet glass into place with gloves. I was trying to patch behind the skegbox. I botched it. I finally gave up and used my hands to put the glass into place. So, what's the risk with occasional exposure? Any other solution? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Robert C. Cline wrote: > > On my first experience with fiberglass, I tried with great care to get the > resin wet glass into place with gloves. I was trying to patch behind the > skegbox. I botched it. I finally gave up and used my hands to put the > glass into place. So, what's the risk with occasional exposure? Any other > solution? > It's always hard to fiberglass in hard-to-reach places, but with each 'glassing job, one learns more tricks to make it work smoother *the next time*. As Mark Lane points out, epoxy really isn't that acutely harmful. For the occaisional boat repair job, it won't kill anyone to get some epoxy on one's skin. Having said that, everyone's physiology is different, and while one person can almost bathe in the stuff, the next person may have a makeup that is much more sensitive and will feel the effects much sooner. Since it's a fact that epoxy *is* a sensitizer, why take chances? Also remember that epoxy resin *hardener* is more acutely harmful than the resin itself. If you do get epoxy on your skin, do NOT use solvents to remove it, as solvents will enhance the absorption of epoxy into the skin. Use soap and water, an emulsifying hand cleanser (Goop) followed by a thorough washing with soap and water, or the epoxy manufacturer's product for removing uncured resin from the skin (which is a heavy duty soap). Regards, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > For > color, I'd use some of those little tubes of coloring agents made by > Evercoat that you can get at any chain "chandlery" and mix them up until I > got as close a match as I could. The sequence is: get the coloring mixed as > close as possible in a little plastic bowl; then mix the epoxy separately, > then mix in the filler, then mix in the color. I've only ever added color to white gel coat so wrt epoxy: Adding the coloring to the mixed epoxy doesn't change the color (i.e dilute it)? Does it come out opaque, translucent or clear? Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A couple of further notes regarding certain responses and questions on this thread. Someone said something about being careful of contact with epoxy -- ie, lungs, hands etc. It is well established that the fumes from epoxy are pretty much harmless. Polyester is a different story. Skin contact with epoxy is mostly harmless, and the vast majority of people never have any adverse reaction. There is such a thing as developing a sensitivity to it, usually only encountered among professionals who use it every day. I'm told that if you develop the sensitivity, you may as well forget it. It's miserable to use the stuff. I've been using epoxy for . . . um. . . well, many years (over 25 anyway), and never had the slightest problem. I use it all the time in confined spaces. It's harmless. Regarding the use of coloring agents, yes, certainly mixing the coloring in with epoxy and filler changes the color. As I think I said, it's an imperfect process. You will never get a perfect match, even with plain white. Frankly, the only way to get a perfect new finish is to spray on a new coat of whatever you like -- I like 2 part poly coatings, like Imron, Awlgrip or Interthane Plus. Regarding mat vs. cloth. Mat is thicker and properly used should provide more strength and solidity per application. I don't know what the problem is that was being described in the question here. Mat is very easy to use. It occurs to me you might have been using roven woving. That stuff is a mess. Very strong, but a mess to use. Mat is simple. And yes, the way you descibe using it is exactly the way to do it -- apply some epoxy mixture to the surface, lay the mat on top of it, then brush on some more epoxy until it's saturated. Frankly, that's the way I apply cloth most of the time, too. Regarding the notion that building up an area with cloth or mat will lead to increased stress on the area around it, well. . . that sounds a little odd to me. Wouldn't the stress be the same on all other areas as it was before? I'm not a physicist, and I confess questions like this puzzle me. But I certainly wouldn't let this bother me too much. If I want to reinforce an area, I reinforce it. And I can tell you for sure, I've reinforced a lot of areas on glass boats. All to good ends, I believe. Regarding fillers, this is probably too big a subject to tackle here. I suggest the West pamphlets (available from West Marine or anywhere else where Gougeon products are sold). Fillers are very important in epoxy/fiberglass work. I keep lots of them around and use them constantly. There is (naturally) some controversy about some of them. Some people -- including myself -- have used all kinds of bizarre things for fillers. Sawdust is common. Regular old flour is also common. I read recently someone used the lint balls from the clothes dryer. Hah! You can use just about anything. The metal fillers, like aluminum, or the graphite fillers, are really quite nice for things that require compressive strength. I hope this helps answer a few of the questions that have been posed. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hull Repairs > "Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > > > For > > color, I'd use some of those little tubes of coloring agents made by > > Evercoat that you can get at any chain "chandlery" and mix them up until I > > got as close a match as I could. The sequence is: get the coloring mixed as > > close as possible in a little plastic bowl; then mix the epoxy separately, > > then mix in the filler, then mix in the color. > > I've only ever added color to white gel coat so wrt epoxy: > > Adding the coloring to the mixed epoxy doesn't change the color (i.e dilute it)? > Does it come out opaque, translucent or clear? > > Mike > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Lane wrote: > I've been using epoxy for . . . um. . . well, > many years (over 25 anyway), and never had the slightest problem. I use it > all the time in confined spaces. It's harmless. > For you, but each person's makeup is different, and the prudent thing to do is to minimize contact of epoxy resin with bare skin. > Regarding mat vs. cloth. Mat is thicker and properly used should provide > more strength and solidity per application. > Solidity - perhaps. Strength - I'm not so sure. There is also a weight penalty when mat is used. Of course, technique also comes into play, as the goal is to add just enough resin to wet out the cloth and fill the spaces between the glass strands. Properly saturated woven cloth provides superior mechanical properties - at lighter weight - as compared to mat. > Regarding the notion that building up an area with cloth or mat will lead to > increased stress on the area around it, well. . . that sounds a little odd > to me. Wouldn't the stress be the same on all other areas as it was before? > I'm not a physicist, and I confess questions like this puzzle me. But I > certainly wouldn't let this bother me too much. If I want to reinforce an > area, I reinforce it. And I can tell you for sure, I've reinforced a lot of > areas on glass boats. All to good ends, I believe. > When I did fiberglass repairs for a fleet of daysailers for the Chicago AYH sailing program, I also used lots of mat, as the weight penalty was insignificant, optimum mechanical properties were not needed on a half inch thick hull, and stress risers were not an issue. For repairing my canoes, kayaks, and paddles, I use woven cloth exclusively, and try to *not* create stress risers. A great reference for doing fiberglass repairs on kayaks is "Boatbuilder's Manual", edited by Charlie Walbridge. Amazon.com says it is out of print, but maybe copies can be located through used booksellers? A cursory description of fiberglass repairs is found in "The Optimum Kayak" by Andy Knapp. Regards, Erik *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
To my: > > Regarding mat vs. cloth. Mat is thicker and properly used should provide > > more strength and solidity per application. Erik Sprenne penned: > Solidity - perhaps. Strength - I'm not so sure. There is also a weight > penalty when mat is used. Of course, technique also comes into play, as the > goal is to add just enough resin to wet out the cloth and fill the spaces > between the glass strands. Properly saturated woven cloth provides superior > mechanical properties - at lighter weight - as compared to mat. Even as I wrote it I knew someone would call me on it <g>. That's why I added the phrase "per application." I think probably one good application of properly applied mat will provide more strength than one application of cloth. But you are certainly right that ultimately mat is not the strongest material; multiple layers of cloth will give more strength. Also, I completely agree with Erik's comments about skin sensitivity. I'm probably a little too what-me-worry? about the whole thing. I keep gallons and gallons of acetone around and use the stuff like water. But I have been told that epoxy sensitivity is a nightmare if you have it, and why take chances. Thanks for the clarifications, Erik. Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark wrote - <I completely agree with Erik's comments about skin sensitivity. I'm probably a little too what-me-worry? about the whole thing. I keep gallons and gallons of acetone around and use the stuff like water. > I hardly ever use acetone any more. I do keep it around, and use it when I've spilled a bit of epoxy on the boat where it will show later on (yeah, I do stuff like that occasionally...). Plain white vinegar emulsifies the epoxy up to and including the gel stage (as long as it hasn't hardened yet) and does a great job of cleanup. Undiluted dish soap is also acceptable, at least for use on hands etc, but I don't think it's quite as good as the vinegar. Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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