G'Day Two years ago I started kayaking but was able to draw on the childhood experience of 42 years past when I propelled two planks of wood using an iron pole as a paddle. Now I am about to embark on an equally hazardous initiation - but with no prior expewrience of any kind. IE the first time in my life to go camping - Could anyone volunteer the three worst mistakes I could make? Its part of a sea kayak trip from Sydney (Australia) to Newcastle (Australia). All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter Osman wrote: > [snip] I am about to embark on an equally hazardous initiation - but with no > prior experience of any kind. IE the first time in my life to go camping - > Could anyone volunteer the three worst mistakes I could make? Oh, boy, is my hopper full of recent experience on this one! Peter, I can't stop at just three. Please do not ask why I am so acutely tuned to these errors (especially the last one -- arrrgh!). 0. Failing to pitch your tent above the midnight high tide mark. 1. Failing to have enough dry bags to keep your gear dry. 2. Failing to run your food up high enough (and far enough from the tree trunk) that the critters (rats, raccoons, bears, etc.) won't get into it. 3. Failing to bring enough fuel for cooking. 4. Failing to bring enough drinking water (or, forgetting the filter needed to produce safe water from surface sources). 5. Forgetting the TP. 6. Leaving the tent (sleeping bag, tarp, stove, food, paddling partner, etc.) home. 7. And the worst: leaving your sense of humor at home. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:51 AM 8/14/00 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: >Peter Osman wrote: > >> [snip] I am about to embark on an equally hazardous initiation - but with no >> prior experience of any kind. IE the first time in my life to go camping - >> Could anyone volunteer the three worst mistakes I could make? > >Oh, boy, is my hopper full of recent experience on this one! Peter, I can't >stop at just three. Please do not ask why I am so acutely tuned to these >errors (especially the last one -- arrrgh!). Since I just got back from three days of kayak camping in the Adirondacks I can add a few items, that though could have spelled disaster actually turned out all right (mostly, due to blind luck and remembering to pack a sense of humor. We all met the night before to plan things out. The guy that sort of organized the trip planned on leaving early in the day so that he could get to Little Tupper Lake and select a campsite. The other four of us left Ithaca around 4:00pm and even with a conservative estimate should have put us at the lake around the time it got dark. With detours, traffic slowed down due to a steady rain all the way there, a stop for dinner that took longer than expected, and a bit of shopping to pick up some extra supplies we arrive at the lake around 11:00pm. (lesson #1: factor in lots of extra time for travel time to your destination) After arriving we found the campsite check-in board and found that Ed had arrived but for some reason neglected to write down the number of the campsite he'd paddled off to. So now we start checking the tags which indicate which camps that full and try to figure out which one didn't have a log entry. Of course, we also assumed that Ed had flipped over the tag for the campsite he'd gone too. That narrowed it down to about four different camps so we decided to just try and head for one of the empty sites and look for Ed (I won't mention some of the things we talked about doing to him when we found him) in the morning. The campsite we picked out was about 2 miles (or was it one and a half?) down the lake. Of course, none of us had ever been to this lake before, and didn't know what the markers looked like for identifying the camp sites, and it was raining so visibility was not good, and we had fully loaded kayaks (much more so than three of us had ever tried paddling before). So given all these factors we did what any rational person would do; we got into our kayaks and paddled off into the dark...and the rain. The kayaks felt very stable with the extra weight and armed with a 8"x11" map printed off using the Delorme software using an inkjet printer on which I had marked *most* of the campsite numbers we attempted to located campsite #20. We were able to avoid paddling into the shallows most of the time and made pretty good progress. After paddling about 15 minutes I got out the map (lesson #2: don't forget to bring the waterproof map case) and we found a couple of landmarks and made a good guess as to where we were. After passing an island (which wasn't on the map) we began looking for a little inlet, where by my calculations preceeded camp #20. After passing that "inlet" we rounded a point and discovered what had to be the *real* inlet we were looking for ...in the dark...in the rain. I got out the map again and decided that the camp should be somewhere along the next 1000' or so of shore. After going about 1500' or so and reaching the next island I got out the map again, pieced it together where it was ripping in half and decided that camp #19 (or was that smudge an 18) should be on the island we were next to. We followed along the shore and didn't see any marks for a camp (assuming that we knew what to look for) so we rafted up again to decide what to do. Camp 18 (or was it 19?) *could* be on that next island...oooh, there's a light on the opposite shore. We decided to paddle across the lake (about a 1/4 mile) and find the source of the light so that we could find out which camp it was and figure out where to go next. When we got across we did find a camp, but as we found out the next day it wasn't the source of the light. It was camp #11 and according to my map (which was now almost unrecognizable as a map) camp #20 should be about due east (lesson #3: having a compass is a good thing). Of course, I couldn't read my compass in the dark (lesson #4: check the batteries on your headlamp before leaving) but was able to pick out a landmark before heading across. Hey...it stopped raining. We paddled across toward the landmark and within two minutes of reaching shore located campsite #20. We managed to get out of our boats without falling in and started to unload. I managed to just get my backpacking lantern (lesson #4: bring several light sources) lit when it started to rain again. We finally got everything unloaded, tents set up, food hung and climbed into our tents around 2:30am in the morning. We also came up with several more ideas on what we were going to do to Ed when we found him. It rained all night but was much lighter when we woke up and started to make coffee. "I think it's going to clear up...", someone said. It didn't. We also found that we were suprisingly awake for 6:00am. After a brief breakfast we climbed back into our kayaks to hunt down, I mean, find Ed's campsite. We found that we were real close to the island we had gone around the night before, so we skirted the opposite shore looking for a site. Just as we got past it I saw a tent on the next island and there was Ed standing on a rock waving to us. We had passed within 200' or so of his site the night before. The trip went mostly uphill from then on...except that it didn't stop raining until that night. Final Lesson: don't ever, ever, forget to bring bug repellant. Fortunately we had plenty. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Here's three of mine: 1. Sleeping bag too light, freezing all night. 2. Failing to re-pack food in suitable plastic containers, bags, and having food escape inside pack. 3. Forgetting stove, matches. Raw rice is not palatable. Regards, Peter Treby 37* 42' S 145* 08' E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Peter Osman wrote: > > G'Day > Could anyone volunteer the three worst mistakes I could make? Its part of a > sea kayak trip from Sydney (Australia) to Newcastle (Australia). > > All the best, PeterO > 1. Bringing too much stuff. Too many campers think of a camping trip as an extension of their dining room, bedroom and backyard. The more you bring to achieve the creature comforts of home, the more you have to carry to and from your boat, the heavier your boat will be, etc. Less means more in enjoying the natural world around you. 2. Putting the stuff into big dry bags. Use lots of small to medium sized bags. Write the contents on them or have some color code as to their contents. Bigger dry bags are harder to pack into a boat and harder to find items in. In this imperfect world, dry bags do fail. If you have your contents in 3 dry bags and one fails, one third of your stuff gets wet. If you have them in 8 or 9, then only a little over 10 percent gets wet. 3. Hanging around camp in the morning on a multi-day trip. If you are trying to cover any considerable distances, you are almost always better off getting out near the crack of dawn, without breakfast (have an energy bar and some water), and paddling three hours or so before stopping for your oatmeal. The reason: statistically and athmospherically seas and winds are at their calmest in the early morning (also very late in the day as darkness descends). If you get out early, you will have a better chance at getting in some miles along your course (3 hours times 3.5 knots gives you some 10 miles of distance under your belt). If conditions do become unsettled later, you won't find yourself attempting to press through bad seas because you feel a need to achieve some distance that day. If conditions remain good, you can paddle lots or settle in earlier in the day at a landing and campsite picked with greater leisure. You hardly ever hear of an expedition gone bad in the early morning; most of the s--t hits the fan in the afternoon when people are trying to get somewhere in bad conditions. In general, go as minimalist and St. Francis saintly as you can rather than hedonistic and Yuppie modern day worldly and gadget-laden. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > This is turning into a "what do you carry camping" thread, which interests > me, as I have been trying to fine-tune my lists. . . > > I like Ralph's approach re minimalism. Coming from backpacking, I was > thrilled to realize how much gear a kayak can carry. I am more from a car camping and canoe camping background, so I am also interested in fine tuning. My biggest problem right now is my cook set. My set needed to work for the "Michael feeds the masses" scenario, so it is a bit much for kayaking. I got a few odd looks from my companions in Acadia when I pulled out a gym bag with my "kitchen" in it. One backpacking stove (I left my three Coleman two burners at home), one backpacking lantern, assorted pots out to twelve quarts, two frying pans, cups, plates, bowls, and SEVEN sets of silverware! Not to mention the ladles, spatulas, and cutting board. Oh yes, the measuring cups, salt and pepper shakers, and butane lighter (large type). I think with a smaller cook set, one set of silverware, and ditch the four man tent for a smaller one, I might have a good start. So I am following this thread with interest. Lesson from this one, too much can be almost as bad as not enough. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sandy mentioned the Eureka Zephyr. I have the earliest version without vestibules and it works just fine. An excellent one-person tent at a good weight and price with sit-up room for a six footer. As for stove, fuel etc. again the minimalist just to heat water for coffee, hot chocolate, oatmeal, freezed dry food (the kind that doesn't need to simmer or cook as that wastes fuel). I like the butane ones, any of the small ones will do. Butane would be real inefficient and costly if you did cooking with it rather than heating up water. My camping gear for 6 days including food, stove/fuel/pots/cup/utensils, tent, sleeping bag, sleep pad, extra clothing, lighting (small flashlights and small candle lantern with spare candles), a liter of wine, absolutely everything (except my normal paddling gear and water) weighs 28-29 pounds. This provides a good measure of comfort without weighing me down and that weight includes a small tarp for waiting out bad weather or for providing a warm covered area over a hanging out/cooking area (a tarp over you reduces radiation from your body by an impressive amount; on a cool evening, the air underneath appears to be 15 degrees warmer, just a guess. If I wanted to really rough it I could take 10 pounds off that. It is also easy to add lots of weight. I earlier made the mistake that Mark Lane made in eying all that space in a kayak and filling it. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Noyes wrote: >My biggest problem right now is my cook set. I had been agonizing over how to put together a cook set, studying the various examples at REI, LL Store etc. Every time I found something I liked it was RIDICULOUSLY expensive (check out the titanium stuff). So finally in frustration I just bought this little five-piece set from Walmart for about $10 (it has fold out handles with some sort of plastic for heat protection). Love it. Works just fine. Even came with two plastic mugs. Weighs very little and has its own stuff sack. I love Walmart. Some discussion of tents has started, too. Another thing I agonized over. I have an REI Trail Dome, which is large, that I have used for car and canoe camping with friend and dog. It fits in the Caribou hatch, but it's way too big. I bought a North Face "Slickrock" - very light, compact, extremely easy to set up, and plenty roomy. Served fine on recent trip, including rainy night. Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Michael Noyes wrote: > >>My biggest problem right now is my cook set. > >I had been agonizing over how to put together a cook set, With Dinty Moore Beef Stew you just use the can as your pot so you don't have to worry with other pots and pans, cheap and not expensive Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:58 PM 8/14/00 -0400, dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: >>Michael Noyes wrote: >> >>>My biggest problem right now is my cook set. >> >>I had been agonizing over how to put together a cook set, > > >With Dinty Moore Beef Stew you just use the can as your pot so you don't >have to worry with other pots and pans, cheap and not expensive Last weekend this guy brought a "hobo pie" maker. It's basically two pieces of square molded aluminum hinged together at one end with two long metal handles with wood ends at the other. The aluminum pieces are coated on the inside with teflon. We got a couple of pieces of bread and made a ham and cheese sandwich that we put in the "pie" maker. Close it up with a little clip on the end and stick it in the coals. Turn it over after a couple of minutes and you've got a toasted ham and cheese sandwich. I bought one on the way home at an outdoor shop. The nice thing about it is that it's long and narrow so it fit into the skinny ends of a boat easily. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I keep seeing this. All these efforts to minimize the packing and the weight and then almost as an after thought "oh yeah, a bunch of wine". I have nothing against wine, and a "wine in a box" bladder can be very useful as a storage or flotation device, but I've always leaned toward bringing hard alcohol when weight or space is important. A small flask of scotch packs more buzz than the same weight of beer or wine. And if you go with something over 100 proof (%50 alcohol) you can use it sterilize items if you have a first aid issue. Transfer to a stainless steel hip flask to reduce concerns about carrying glass bottles. Granted there are also even lighter, more compact intoxicants, if that is your preference, though many of them are frowned upon by local law enforcement. I admit to suffering the ongoing struggle of gadget infatuation and minimalism. For me camping is something of a release from the burden of day to trappings, as long as don't go so minimal that basic comfort and health suffer. So I tend to over pack clothing, trying to cover all weather situations. Using a layering approach to keeping warm helps reduce the problems there. Also, at 6'2" I have trouble finding a tent that I fit in, without waking up with either feet or head up against the tent (and dripping wet as a result). I wonder what group of midgets do they use to calculate the "sleeps 3" rating on a tent. And none of these ratings assume you'll want anything other then 3 pygmies in sleeping bags, while I usually want to bring in other gear, to keep it close, or protect from the elements. My favorite tent to actually have room is a North Face Expedition 25. But that is a pretty serious and expensive tent 4 season tent. Plus its heavier. I keep eyeballing some of these bivy sack style tents with just enough space for a sleeping bag and wonder how they could be useful, if how I would fit inside and yet, for a minimal, get away from the world approach, they have a certain appeal. I might have to see if I can borrow or rent one sometime. I'll bring a stove, but I find that mostly I tend to prefer no-cook nibble food, carrots, celery, protein bars, dried meats and fruits, "trail mix", etc. and nibble during any available break. I'm not a coffee drinker, so firing up the stove in the morning for coffee is less of an issue, just plenty of drinking water. There also are times when a hot meal, boiling water, or extra heat source is important, so a stove is handy there. dave *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > I had been agonizing over how to put together a cook set, studying the > various examples at REI, LL Store etc. Every time I found something I liked > it was RIDICULOUSLY expensive (check out the titanium stuff). So finally in > frustration I just bought this little five-piece set from Walmart for about > $10 (it has fold out handles with some sort of plastic for heat protection). > Love it. Works just fine. Even came with two plastic mugs. Weighs very > little and has its own stuff sack. I love Walmart. > Hi Mark. How durable is the Walmart cook set? I have been looking at all the sets out there, and so far I have been leaning towards the MSR stainless steel sets. That and the Outback Oven to go with it. If the Walmart unit is serviceable I have no objections to saving a bit of money. I don't buy my gear to impress others, I buy it to use. But I usually go with the best quality I can find, I figure it is cheaper in the long run to buy the good stuff once. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced/forwarded outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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