Someone who has suffered severe hypothermia is still in danger and should be taken to a hospital even if they have warmed up. As I understand it the body chemistry doesn't function right when its too cold for the chemical reactions needed by the body to work well. Rewarming too quickly can throw thins further out of whack. Severe and possibly fatal imbalances in body chemistry will result. I once heard the whole chain of chemical events that occur but don't remember the details. The best treatment if help isn't days away is to just insulate the person to prevent further heat loss while they remain still and try to avoid jostling them. They do not have to be rewarmed, just stabilized where they are so they don't get any colder. Next do what you can to get them to a hospital quickly. They can be closely monitored in a hospital until the body chemistry is back to normal. Last I heard, warm moist air in the lungs is the preferred rewarming technique. I'd try that if you can't get help to get the victim to a hospital without jostling them. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jochen Grikschat said: I´m not a doctor, but I´ve heard several things about the different levels of hypothermia. <snip> There ist a new system. USA and Canada use it for several years and the DGzRS (german sea rescue squad) got it also on every ship. It had saved many lifes, yet. The persons are given heated air. Over the lounge the body is warmed directly over the blood. If you drink a warm tea, the body would need blood for the stomage and get it from the extremeties.<snip> ---------------- I did an article for the CPA Newsletter not too long ago, fully detailing the hypothermia aspects of a pre season trip I did with a couple of buddies exactly two years ago that ended with a rescue. One of the paddlers benefited immensely from the availability of the device you mention above, which I also detailed, in terms of the positive default of slow warming in the field with humidified oxygen. I sent a copy of the article to the list but didn't even get one comment back, and I wasn't too sure how the CPA crowd accepted it. BTW, I'm looking into a new portable, personal-sized, compact "RescueQair" field unit for myself. Anyway, one kayak mag editor who reviewed the CPA article said lacked pellucid merit and was way too long and complex. I realized then how superficial most of the paddling community is. Of course, it could be simply that I narcotize fellow paddlers. In either case, it doesn't really matter. As long as I get out to paddle the next gale, that's all that really matters in life for the most part. And Vancouver Island is finally getting some action again after the driest, calmest winter for a while (two years ago it was the wildest). Well, I better go, I'm sounding like sponson man with my diatribe. Speaking of which, Tim is at it again on rec.boats attacking me and Matt. There, now I'm flattered. 8-) Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote: > I did an article for the CPA Newsletter not too long ago, fully > detailing the hypothermia aspects of a pre season trip I did with a > couple of buddies exactly two years ago that ended with a rescue. One of > the paddlers benefited immensely from the availability of [a rewarming] > device, which I also detailed, in terms of the positive default > of slow warming in the field with humidified oxygen. I sent a copy of > the article to the list but didn't even get one comment back, and I > wasn't too sure how the CPA crowd accepted it. BTW, I'm looking into a > new portable, personal-sized, compact "RescueQair" field unit for > myself. Anyway, one kayak mag editor who reviewed the CPA article said it > lacked pellucid merit and was way too long and complex. I realized then > how superficial most of the paddling community is. Of course, it could > be simply that I narcotize fellow paddlers. Re: "superficiality" and tendency to "narcotize:" probably some of both, Doug. I'll accept being somewhat superficial if you'll accept the other label. Pejorative exchanges aside, I suspect the "ho hum" reaction may have other, valid bases: 1. Heated, moist air/oxygen mixtures are nothing new. They have been used by the local CG medics and other rescue groups on this side of the line for many years, and have been well described in the popular press, at least around here. As you allude, providing heated, moist ventilation to a victim in the usual yak rescue scenario is unfeasible from our platforms. Probably why most of us "blow off" information on them. 2. I bet _preventing_ hypothermia is where most of us invest our efforts. Unlike folks who love to dance on the edge, the rest of us would prefer to avoid situations where our insulation regimes are tested to the max: we hunker down or don't go out or hit the beach and put on some more insulation, to paddle another time. Agreed, many of us are superficial enough to be prone to slipping into hypothermia. It happened to me and my ex once on a high ridge in Jasper National Park. We were able to recognize what was happening and take steps to reverse the process. In this vein, the article in Sea Kayaker a couple issues ago on the couple who got standed near Tofino (west coast of Vancouver Island, BC) was a classic scenario: blowing and wet, only sorta cold (58 F), did not hydrate or refuel, allowed their insulation to get wet, and did not make good use of the resources they had. Lotta small dumb mistakes. Been there, done that. But, I'm still here. And, I bet most folks on this list have had similar experiences and feel they are fairly well educated on hypothermia ... this being an elite, less-than-normally-superficial group. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Matt, Doug, Jochen: In the field, without special rescue equipment, how would you supply warm moist air to the victim's lungs? Would holding the victim's head in the steam over some boiling water help? Jack ----- Original Message ----- From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> <snip> >Last I heard, warm moist air in the lungs is the preferred rewarming technique. I'd > try that if you can't get help to get the victim to a hospital without > jostling them. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That hypothermia victim's name is Anna Bagenholm. She's been hired to research telemark ski binding safety by a new company that is marketing an innovative binding. I'll pass on the link containing a post-injury picture. Click on R + D followed by injury research. http://www.linken.com/. I read a journal article about this incident. She is the record holder for coldest resuscitation w/o major neurological deficits. Lengthy CPR was done from the time of extrication until by-pass re-warming. Her recovery was very rocky. It took a month to wean her off a ventilator. As you can see, her picture shows her skiing very well. I believe that she was positioned on a rock while under the ice. This kept her head above water. The extrication took apprx. one hour while she was bathed in freezing water. http://www.manbir-online.com/htm3/new.54.htm http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/20000131/ifr31057.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Fu" <SeaDogJack_at_cablespeed.com> To: "Matt Broze" <mkayaks_at_oz.net>; "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 4:38 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hypothermia (warm moist air in the lungs) > Matt, Doug, Jochen: > > In the field, without special rescue equipment, how would you supply > warm moist air to the victim's lungs? Would holding the victim's head > in the steam over some boiling water help? > > Jack > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net> > <snip> > >Last I heard, warm moist air in the lungs is the preferred rewarming > technique. I'd > > try that if you can't get help to get the victim to a hospital without > > jostling them. > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
AAbout 11:30 AM local time on April 8, I was kayaking with two friends, Tom Macomber and Tim Berry, both of Fremont, IN. We were on the southern part of Snow Lake, near Fremont, about a quarter mile from the channel into Lake James, 200-300 yards off the nearest shore, which was to our left. We were paddling southwest, nearly directly into a wind that we estimate was 20-25 mph out of the southwest. The air temperature was over seventy degrees, but the strong wind made things chilly. Wave heights were about one foot, and had been higher earlier in the passage. As the ice went off the lakes only a couple weeks before, the water temperature could not have been warmer than about 40 degrees and could have been less. Macomber has about my level of experience, and we have frequently paddled together. Berry, though a practiced canoeist, is relatively inexperienced in kayaks, and was in his new boat for only the second time. We were spread out somewhat; I was slightly ahead of Berry and to his right, and Macomber was 50-75 yards ahead of me. I noticed another kayaker, in a small, red kayak, slightly out of the channel. At this point, two bright red jetskis appeared from the channel and powered up, passing us at a distance of approximately 100 yards to our right, heading northeast. The first of the two was ridden by a middle-aged man, solo; the second, trailing somewhat, was ridden by a young man, with a young woman on the back. After a brief period, the trailing jetski with the young couple aboard turned around and buzzed past the stern of Tim's kayak at a very short distance, with obvious intent, then passed ahead of me at a distance of less than ten feet. The first jetski was nowhere in sight. I managed to stay upright by bracing. The jetski rushed on ahead, taking a close pass past Macomber and spraying him with his jetwash, then buzzed the red kayak, which we later learned was paddled by Joel Bredemeyer of Ft. Wayne, IN, whom we had not previously met. As the operator of the jetski passed Bredemeyer and swung hard to wash him down, he rolled and stalled. I yelled at Bredemeyer, "Get his number," although he was far enough away that I don't think he heard me. I had only a brief glimpse at the small number which was black on the red jetski. Bredemeyer did in fact get his number when he was slowed at this point. Regaining his balance, the jetski again buzzed past me at a close distance, and again I managed to maintain my balance with a brace. The jetski then proceeded on to Tim and washed him down, rolling his kayak over. I only saw this out of the corner of my eye, but yelled at Tom that Tim was in the water, and started to turn around to go and help Tim when the jetski again passed me, at a distance of no more than two or three feet, rolling me over. I was literally thrown from the cockpit, and had my head above water in time to hear the operator of the Jetski yell "Does anyone else want to go for a swim?" Out of my boat, at least 200 yards from shore, with the strong wind blowing me somewhat parallel to the shore, in bone-chilling water, I was in a life-threatening situation; I was not particularly dressed for immersion. I had managed to hold onto my paddle and maintain contact with the boat, which I righted from the water. I thought briefly about attempting to rig for a paddle float re-entry, but it takes precious time, and I figured the operator of the jetski would think it fun to swamp me again as I attempted to re-enter the boat. I figured he would pay me less attention if I was in the water, so I worked my way to the bow of my boat and started to swim for shore, knowing that warm clothing stowed in a dry bag in the boat could be essential to staying alive. The shore was in a state park, separated from habited areas by a swamp, and I knew it would be a long, cold walk to safety if I managed to reach the nearest shore without the boat. While I was slowly swimming toward shore, dragging the boat, the operator of the jetski took more passes at the kayaks that had managed to remain upright. I was hoping to pull myself close to enough to shore that the strong wind would carry me near the tip of a little reedy point, where I might be able to get my feet down. It was slow progress since I'm not an exceptionally strong swimmer. Fortunately, the jetski left the scene after about ten minutes of harrassing us, with Bredemeyer and Macomber still upright. Bredemeyer went to Berry's aid, while Macomber came to mine. We had practiced "over the boat" rescues last summer, and I briefly thought of trying one. I am quite heavy, and we had difficulty when we'd practiced the rescue last summer in much more benign conditions. As it was, we quickly decided the better approach was for Macomber to tow me and my boat to shore. Up until this point I had not inflated my inflatable personal flotation device, as it would have impeded my swimming, but did so now. I grabbed onto the stern of Macomber's boat, and he towed me to where the water was something less than waist deep. The bottom was so soft that I had to breast stroke the rest of the way into the reeds, pushing the boat ahead of me. I had difficulty in getting the stern of the boat into the soft, reedy shore and turn it over to dump out the majority of the water. I managed to find a fairly firm spot on a root ball to stand while I pumped a little more water out of the boat with a handpump. I was still knee deep in water, without much hope of making it to firmer ground to change into dry clothes. I was finally able to get back into the boat. Bredemeyer had been able to similarly assist Berry, who had bruises and abrasions from wet-exiting a very snug cockpit. We spent some minutes catching our breath and assessing the situation. We decided to head back downwind to a more populated area with a better beach, about half a mile away, to pull ourselves together. We decided to stay quite close to shore, in case the jetski should decide to return for some more fun. We got most of the way across the small bay with little difficulty, but in the last two hundred yards had to turn partially across the 1-2 foot waves in order to make it to a protected channel that leads into Big Otter Lake. I could easily have swamped again in the last couple hundred yards, as I was not paddling very well and the five gallons or so of water still in the kayak's cockpit made the boat somewhat unstable, but I managed to stay upright and get the boat to the beach. A man with a cottage there was doing yard work, and he came to our assistance with coffee and towels. I didn't get his name, but we owe him a great deal of thanks. We were able to dry off, and I was able to get into dry clothes. Macomber called 911 to report the incident, and after some minutes a local Conservation Officer came and took the complaint and information from us. After getting warmed back up, we emptied the rest of the water out of the swamped boats, got back in and headed back to where we'd parked our vehicles on Marsh Lake. We crossed Big Otter Lake and entered the channel into Little Otter Lake. We paddled easily down the lake, until I noticed two red jetskis tied to the dock ahead of me. I pointed them out to the others, and we paddled closely past the dock in order to positively identify the jetskis, without saying anything to the people watching from shore. We then paddled another couple hundred yards to a bait and tackle store, where we stopped, called the Conservation Officer again, and waited for his arrival. We were later able to positively identify the operator of the jetski. In four years of kayaking on lakes in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, and in many other years of boating, in all sorts of conditions and with all sorts of boaters around, I have never seen the blatant, reckless, callous disregard for human safety that the operator of this jetski displayed, especially in making several attempts to upset all the kayaks, even after two people were in the water. In discussing it later, we pretty well agreed that if three of us had been in the water instead of two, the situation would have been considerably worse, and there would have been a much greater liklihood of death or severe cold injury. All four of us in the water would have meant a near certainty that some or all of us could have met our deaths, given the wind, waves, distance from shore, cold of the water, and other dangers. ------------------------- ADDENDUM: LESSONS LEARNED ------------------------- The above statement was written at the request of the conservation officer, and has been slightly edited for length. The operator of the jetski was ticketed. We are considering civil action. Objectively, we were inadequately dressed for immersion, but were otherwise well balanced for the day. I was wearing polarfleece, with a lightweight paddling jacket, and it had been uncomfortably warm in the sun, even heading into the wind. Heading downwind on the way back across the Otter Lakes, in dry clothes -- again polarfleece with the same paddling jacket -- I became quite warm in the nearly 80 degree temperatures. I do feel that I am a little more hypothermia resistant than the next guy, due to my size. When I dumped, there was no gasp reflex, no ice cream headache, just an "Aw, ****!" I was able to stay operational in the cold water for a surprising length of time with a very quick recovery. A skinny guy might not have been able to do that. I didn't have a stopwatch on it, but estimate that I was fully in the water for ten to fifteen minutes, and waist to knee deep for at least another ten. We were too far from shore in the conditions. Even a hundred yards closer in might have meant many things could have gone differently. We were probably a little too far spread out, but in retrospect it would have just made it easier for the young punk, so that's six of one, half dozen of the other. Macomber has since commented that had we been close enough together to raft up we might have been able to avoid dumping. We have got to spend more time in getting proficient with rescue techniques and rolls. However, in this circumstance, I believe Berry and I were safer in the water while the young punk was still around. Once he left, in the circumstances we were in and considering our inadequate recovery skills, we were probably better off going to shore than trying any sort of midwater rescue. I'm very glad I had the inflatable PFD. Regular PFDs ride up on me in the water. I cannot swim effectively in a regular PFD once it has ridden up on me, which it does almost instantaneously. Once inflated, the Sospenders PFD gave me considerably more flotation than my regular hard PFD, and held my head out of water. While I think that there's still a place for a solid PFD on moving water, I think I will abandon solid PFDs on flatwater in the future. However, this may not be the best approach for the average kayaker, who can wear a PFD that won't ride up. Berry, who is pretty close to my size, was paddling a fiberglass Perception Eclipse, which is a very snug fit on him. He had difficulty getting the spray skirt off and exiting the cockpit, swallowing some water, and in fact got an abrasion on his leg from his wet exit. The thigh braces on that boat have since had a date with a dremel tool. I, on the other hand, could stand for better thigh braces in my Nimbus Telkwa, as there was a possibility that I could have managed roll back upright had I been able to stay in the boat. Clearing the swamped boat of water was difficult, even with a hand pump, which wouldn't pick up the last few gallons. The water remaining in the boat made handling difficult getting back to dry land. The boat will have an electric pump in the near future, if for no more reason than that is one less thing to have to deal with in a swamping and recovery situation with limited time and strength available. For the same reason, I plan to start carrying a solid paddle float when in cold water conditions. I have to extend my thanks to Joel Bredemeyer, whom we had never met before, and who happened on the scene at just the right (or wrong) time. He was well met, and I'd be honored to paddle with him again. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). 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At 10:30 PM 4/12/01 +0000, Wes Boyd wrote: [lots of stuff snipped, a few comments in line] >AAbout 11:30 AM local time on April 8, I was kayaking with two friends, Tom >Macomber and Tim Berry, both of Fremont, IN. As the ice went off the >lakes only >a couple weeks before, the water temperature could not have been warmer >than about 40 degrees and could have been less. It probably was. The lake here doesn't freeze over and it was 38 degrees last weekend. >Macomber has about my level >of experience, and we have frequently paddled together. Berry, though a >practiced canoeist, is relatively inexperienced in kayaks, and was in his >new boat for only the second time. The sounds pretty risky for those conditions. [harrowing encounter with jet skier snipped] >------------------------- >ADDENDUM: LESSONS LEARNED >------------------------- > >The above statement was written at the request of the conservation officer, >and has been slightly edited for length. The operator of the jetski was >ticketed. We are considering civil action. Ticketed? He should have been arrested for attempted murder, or assault at the very least. I'd have a talk with the district attorney. >Objectively, we were inadequately dressed for immersion, but were otherwise >well balanced for the day. I was wearing polarfleece, with a lightweight >paddling jacket, and it had been uncomfortably warm in the sun, even >heading into the wind. Heading downwind on the way back across the Otter >Lakes, in dry clothes -- again polarfleece with the same paddling jacket -- >I became quite warm in the nearly 80 degree temperatures. It sounds like you were definitely underdressed and are lucky to come out of the incident unscathed. >We were too far from shore in the conditions. Even a hundred yards closer >in might have meant many things could have gone differently. We were >probably a little too far spread out, but in retrospect it would have just >made it easier for the young punk, so that's six of one, half dozen of the >other. Macomber has since commented that had we been close enough together >to raft up we might have been able to avoid dumping. That's a good point. Even if two of you could have rafted up it would have been a much more stable platform. If the three of you rafted up I doubt that he could have dumped anyone without actually running into you. >We have got to spend more time in getting proficient with rescue techniques >and rolls. However, in this circumstance, I believe Berry and I were safer >in the water while the young punk was still around. Once he left, in the >circumstances we were in and considering our inadequate recovery skills, we >were probably better off going to shore than trying any sort of midwater >rescue. I definitely agree that you should work on both solo and assisted rescue techniques. There are lots of different assisted rescues techniques that can be practiced. You might want to try using a rope stirrup to help reentry. I can describe a couple of different boat-over-boat techniques back channel if you'd like. I don't buy the idea that you were better off in the water. If you had done an assisted rescue you would have ended up in a rafted up position and been more stable. >Berry, who is pretty close to my size, was paddling a fiberglass Perception >Eclipse, which is a very snug fit on him. He had difficulty getting the >spray skirt off and exiting the cockpit, swallowing some water, and in fact >got an abrasion on his leg from his wet exit. The thigh braces on that boat >have since had a date with a dremel tool. Sounds like he could use more practice doing wet exits in controlled conditions. Even a very snug fitting boat shouldn't be that difficult to wet exit. My guess is that he probably panicked a bit and lots of practice would definitely help there. Exiting after an intentional capsize until it becomes a slow, deliberate exercise will make it much easier when an unintentional capsize occurs. After a few unintentional capsizes and wet exits he won't even think twice about it. >I, on the other hand, could >stand for better thigh braces in my Nimbus Telkwa, as there was a >possibility that I could have managed roll back upright had I been able to >stay in the boat. Been there, done that. In a class I was helping teach last year I was showing someone how to do a hip snap off the bow of my boat and she capsized and pulled my bow over sideways and didn't let go. I braced myself right out the cockpit. >Clearing the swamped boat of water was difficult, even with a hand pump, >which wouldn't pick up the last few gallons. The water remaining in the >boat made handling difficult getting back to dry land. The boat will have >an electric pump in the near future, if for no more reason than that is one >less thing to have to deal with in a swamping and recovery situation with >limited time and strength available. For the same reason, I plan to start >carrying a solid paddle float when in cold water conditions. I might also be a good idea to practice paddling your boat with the cockpit partially flooded. Wait until the water warms up. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net> To: "Paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:30 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Jetski incident Thank you for taking the time to share this report; it's instructive in many ways--particularly the part about being non-confrontational once you meet the offender on shore. I respect how you reported the incident to the proper authorities and let them resolve the issue. I tend to be very confrontational, and as I read your report, I reflected on whether or not I could have responded in such a mature fashion; Honestly, I'm not sure that I could restrain myself from confronting these individuals once I saw them on shore; and of course, this is not the intelligent approach to the situation; nor is adding SAMs to the kayak deck, as I clear more space in my Mad Scientist Lab! Thanks again for sharing your account, Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow! What a horrid experience! I’m glad the four of you survived, and I am astounded at the behaviour of the jet-skier. I’m curious. Was the fellow ticketed for a safe boating infraction, or was he given a summons to stand against assault charges? It would seem to me (although I am not a criminal lawyer in your jurisdiction) that he should at least be charged with assault x 4, and given the circumstances perhaps aggravated assault x 4 (or whatever equivalent charges you have there). Richard Culpeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:41 AM 4/13/01 -0400, John Fereira wrote: >At 10:30 PM 4/12/01 +0000, Wes Boyd wrote: >>The above statement was written at the request of the conservation officer, >>and has been slightly edited for length. The operator of the jetski was >>ticketed. We are considering civil action. > >Ticketed? He should have been arrested for attempted murder, or assault >at the very least. I'd have a talk with the district attorney. My feeling exactly, but I don't want to discuss the legal side of it at this time. >>Objectively, we were inadequately dressed for immersion, but were otherwise >>well balanced for the day. I was wearing polarfleece, with a lightweight >>paddling jacket, and it had been uncomfortably warm in the sun, even >>heading into the wind. Heading downwind on the way back across the Otter >>Lakes, in dry clothes -- again polarfleece with the same paddling jacket -- >>I became quite warm in the nearly 80 degree temperatures. > >It sounds like you were definitely underdressed and are lucky to come >out of the incident unscathed. No question that we wee udnerdressed for being in the water. But the decision on how to dress sometimes has to take into account other factors, including air temperature, which was quite warm, and the degree of exposure. In fact, this was a very much inside trip, and this was at the point where we were about as far offshore as we'd planned on the whole trip. >>We were too far from shore in the conditions. Even a hundred yards closer >>in might have meant many things could have gone differently. We were >>probably a little too far spread out, but in retrospect it would have just >>made it easier for the young punk, so that's six of one, half dozen of the >>other. Macomber has since commented that had we been close enough together >>to raft up we might have been able to avoid dumping. > >That's a good point. Even if two of you could have rafted up it would >have been a much more stable platform. If the three of you rafted up >I doubt that he could have dumped anyone without actually running into >you. > > >>We have got to spend more time in getting proficient with rescue techniques >>and rolls. However, in this circumstance, I believe Berry and I were safer >>in the water while the young punk was still around. Once he left, in the >>circumstances we were in and considering our inadequate recovery skills, we >>were probably better off going to shore than trying any sort of midwater >>rescue. > >I definitely agree that you should work on both solo and assisted rescue >techniques. There are lots of different assisted rescues techniques that >can be practiced. You might want to try using a rope stirrup to help >reentry. I have such a system permanently rigged in the boat. >I don't buy the idea that you were better off >in the water. If you had done an assisted rescue you would have ended up >in a rafted up position and been more stable. While the young bozo was around, I believe I was safer in the water. I can just imagine being halfway into the boat, precariously balancing, and him taking another close pass. The time and energy expended in the setup would have been wasted. Once he'd gone, had we been much farther from shore, I think we might have tried an over-the boat rescue -- but there was a better percentage in the way we did it, under the circumstances. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The encounter with the marauding jetskis is one reason why having a marine radio with you is a must. If you can make immediate contact with enforcement units while something like this is going on, it increases the odds of catching the jetskis. But even if you have not gotten through to anyone, fake it. If the jetskiers had seen you holding a radio to your ear and mouthing out words and nodding your head as if you were talking to the authorities, they would have zoomed away fast. As for the way you were dressed, i.e. not really prepared for cold water immersion in lower 40s degree water temperatures because of warm air temperatures, this is not known as the Deadly Paddling Season for nothing. I have a macabre image about this period. During the winter, the bodies resulting from suicides and other deaths in the NY Harbor area often sink out of sight in the icy waters before they can be recovered. In spring, i.e. about now, when the waters just start to warm up into the 40s, these bodies bloath and float to the surface; they are termed "floaters" by law enforcement officials. So what I see in my macabre image are capsized ill-cold-water-clothed spring paddlers dying of hypothermia with winter's "floaters" popping to the surface all around them. Not a funny thought, but something has to work to convince paddlers it ain't smart to paddle ill-clothed during this season. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:08 PM 4/13/01 -0400, you wrote: >The encounter with the marauding jetskis is one reason why having a marine >radio with you is a must. If you can make immediate contact with >enforcement units while something like this is going on, it increases the >odds of catching the jetskis. But even if you have not gotten through to >anyone, fake it. If the jetskiers had seen you holding a radio to your ear >and mouthing out words and nodding your head as if you were talking to the >authorities, they would have zoomed away fast. A marine radio would not have done any good on an inland lake. >As for the way you were dressed, i.e. not really prepared for cold water >immersion in lower 40s degree water temperatures because of warm air >temperatures, this is not known as the Deadly Paddling Season for nothing. Yes, we were underdressed for immersion. But it was a warm day, and this incident took place near our point of maximum exposure for the trip, which was mostly on channels and small lakes. It's not always reasonable to optimize for immersion when other factors are involved. You have to take other considerations into mind, such as, especially in my case, the potential for overheating. A number of factors have to be taken into consideration, including water temp, air temp, planned trip, other weather conditions, degree of remoteness, alone or with someone. I had a wet suit with me in the boat, but had decided not to wear it due to the air temperatures. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:11 AM 4/13/01 -0700, Kevin Whilden wrote: >Wes, > >No superlative can correctly express my outrage at this incident. I'm glad >that your crew escaped mostly unscathed, since a jetski is a lethal weapon >from the perspecitive of a kayaker. If that a**hole had lost control even >slightly, he could have easily rammed right over one of you, causing severe >injury. But the fact that he made you swim in dangerous conditions is >perhaps malicious enough. I hope you take him to court, but that's easy for >me to say, since I'm not the one who has to do the dirty work of the actual >lawsuit. I am quite glad that you at least have this option anyway. I was informed secondhand this morning that the CO plans to file felony charges -- and that the perp isn't a juvenile. I don't know the details yet, but will pass them along. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for putting the story in words. I would definitely consider taking legal action. Why was the operator only ticketed? It seems that this was vehicular assault, especially considering his asking who else wanted to go for a swim. Any of the lawyers out there want to comment. As for your PFD problems, if you are interested in a regular PFD, you might consider one with crotch straps if you haven't already. That may keep the PFD from riding up. -Patrick (who also hates sharing the water with idiots) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:11 AM 4/13/01 -0500, Patrick Maun wrote: > >As for your PFD problems, if you are interested in a regular PFD, you >might consider one with crotch straps if you haven't already. That >may keep the PFD from riding up. Tried one. In fact, tried two. The straps interfere with the spray skirt, unless I'm wearing the spray skirt on the outside. If the straps fastened partway up the PFD, instead of the bitter bottom, it might work out differently. I frankly feel that inflatable PFDs have a lot of potentail, especially in warmer conditions where it's tempting to go without a solid PFD. Plus, you get more flotation than a regular PFD, and it will turn your head out of water and keep it there, which a regular PFD may or may not do. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Being out on the water sometimes makes canoers, kayakers and fishermen, targets from power boaters and believe it or not, people target shooting or taking pot shots over, or at the water. that's one of the reason most states allow a boater to have a loaded pistol in their tackle box , its legal. I don't rely on others for my safety, that's why when I'm out in the woods or on the water , I carry a small titanium "38 special" pistol in the deck bag. I'm sure I will get dozens of flames calling me a gun nut but I'm not. Its there to keep me safe. I would never even tell another fellow paddler I have it, or display it to anyone, but its there if I need it. The times are changing. Our chosen form of recreation puts us alone out in the wilderness, and out on the water. As for considering a lawsuit I think your foolish not to proceed with the Highest level of litigation possible , and to contact the police regarding assault charges against these idiots. Would you have died, they would have been murderers. What happens if next time these ass*&^()*% buzz a group of paddlers and there are kids in the group, what happens when they drown. What these jet skiers tried to do, was kill you. Had you died, I'm sure your family would have preferred you were paddling with a "gun nut". Post their names and addresses to the usenet paddle news groups. Contact the ACA, they may be able to help you. Don't be a victim. Sue their ASS off. OK, let the flames begin.............................. Wes Boyd wrote: > AAbout 11:30 AM local time on April 8, I was kayaking with two friends, Tom > Macomber and Tim Berry, both of Fremont, IN. We were on the southern part -- Perry Chamberlain Kato_at_qnet.com Liv'n on de Edge n de Desert Everyone has someone in their family who is crazy, if you don't know who it is, its you! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> >As for your PFD problems, if you are interested in a regular PFD, you > >might consider one with crotch straps if you haven't already. That > >may keep the PFD from riding up. Came across this site the other day: http://www.stohlquist.com/grippfds.html Need their paddle jacket or drysuit as well, but they claim the PDF and top stick together to avoid rideup. Haven't seen or used one, NZ is always a few years behind in gear. Cheers Grant ______________________________________ Want Kayaking information on Waiheke Island? http://www.issystems.co.nz/kayak/index.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "perry chamberlain" <kato_at_qnet.com> To: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net>; <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Jetski incident > Being out on the water sometimes makes canoers, kayakers and fishermen, targets > from power boaters and believe it or not, people target shooting or taking pot > shots over, or at the water. that's one of the reason most states allow a > boater to have a loaded pistol in their tackle box , its legal. > I don't rely on others for my safety, that's why when I'm out in the woods or > on the water , I carry a small titanium "38 special" pistol in the deck bag. > I'm sure I will get dozens of flames calling me a gun nut but I'm not. > Its there to keep me safe. I would never even tell another fellow paddler I > have it, or display it to anyone, but its there if I need it. The times are > changing. Our chosen form of recreation puts us alone out in the wilderness, > and out on the water. If you were in this identical situation, i.e.: being assaulted by a PWC, would that gun remain in the dry bag? Now that's an interesting legal scenario! I can see the headline: PWC ASSAULT: KAYAKER SHOOTS BACK! Wouldn't that turn a lake into something akin to a Los Angeles freeway! Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:54 PM 4/13/01 -0400, Craig MacKinnon wrote: > >If you were in this identical situation, i.e.: being assaulted by a PWC, >would that gun remain in the dry bag? Now that's an interesting legal >scenario! I can see the headline: PWC ASSAULT: KAYAKER SHOOTS BACK! Wouldn't >that turn a lake into something akin to a Los Angeles freeway! Can't speak to LA freeways, but I've been on lakes that put me in mind of the Detroit or Chicago versions. But not this afternoon. Tom and I took advantage of Good Friday afternoon off and a pretty nice day, and took our boats down to Lake Hudson, the first time we'd been out since Sunday. There was a nice breeze blowing; we even got buzzed, by a friend in his antique Luscombe, wings waggling in greeting. We saw a number of geese on the nest, including one small island with at least nine nesters. We saw four sandhill cranes getting matey, and an egret. We even saw a loon. The only thing that went wrong was that I left my boat shoes at home and had to paddle in my stocking feet. It was good to be out and put last weekend behind us. My grandfather taught me well: when you fall off a bicycle, pick it up and ride it again. Thanks to everyone for the support and encouragement. -- Wes --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wes Boyd's Kayak Place http://www2.dmci.net/wesboyd/kayak.htm Kayaks for Big Guys (And Gals) | Trip Reports | Places To Go | Boats & Gear --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There seems to be millions of things to say about this, but others are doing just fine. Wes, I'm glad you and your friends are ok (for not altogether altruistic reasons, I enjoy your posts). Hope it doesn't happen again. gabriel -- ¤ Gabriel L Romeu ¤ http://studiofurniture.com + /diary or + /paint *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes I am so glad you and the others weren't seriously injured. You did the right thing keeping your cool and working through the authorities. I would like to take a moment to formally thank everyone on the Paddlewise list who supported the successful Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore jetski ban last year, and encourage everyone to now support the Florida Keys jetski ban by visiting http://www.earthisland.org/takeaction/new_action.cfm?aaID=47. -Bob Matter Hammond, Indiana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I do a fair amount of paddling on a navigable waterway and have four or five incidents each year with harassment from jetskiers. A friend of mine gave me a helpful tip. Carry a small bag of acorns. Dropped into the water, the acorns are just the right size to pass through the inlet strainer of a jetski and they make a most pleasing racket when they hit the impeller. It doesn't surprise me that jetskis are being banned on a great many waterways. It is something of a philosophical debate in the chicken/egg genre to determine whether morons buy jetskis, or whether the operation of a jetski turns someone into a moron. They seem to feel obliged to run down ducks and kayakers. I have also found that my handheld GPS unit has a remarkable effect on jetskier behaviour. Simply pointing the unit at them seems to make them think they are being clocked on radar and they slow down to a crawl. Hauling out a cheapo instant camera and taking their picture also seems to improve their behavior. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<snip> ". . . whether morons buy jetskis, or whether the operation of a jetski turns someone into a moron. . ." I have only anecdotal evidence, but recollection of this from time to time cheers me up. One jet skier, who was hardly in the class that harassed Mr. Boyd but whose enthusiasm for his vehicle definitely placed him in the obnoxious category, failed to pay attention to about 100 ft of his tow rope. As a result, when he next started the engine the prop instantly coiled all of the line around the shaft, extremely tightly. After working vainly to disentangle or cut the offending line underwater, the jet skier was on the verge of giving up, when someone made the helpful suggestion to turn the vehicle upside down, to facilitate access to the fouled coil. That pretty much ensured that water, fuel, and engine parts got into combinations not intended by the manufacturer. The vehicle was out for the rest of the season, more effectively than any fantasy of sabotage could have accomplished. Tom Joyce ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:28 PM 4/16/01 -0500, Joyce, Thomas F. wrote: ><snip> >". . . whether morons buy jetskis, or whether the operation of a >jetski turns someone into a moron. . ." > >I have only anecdotal evidence, but recollection of this from time to time >cheers me up. One jet skier, who was hardly in the class that harassed Mr. >Boyd but whose enthusiasm for his vehicle definitely placed him in the >obnoxious category, failed to pay attention to about 100 ft of his tow rope. >As a result, when he next started the engine the prop instantly coiled all >of the line around the shaft, extremely tightly. I don't want to spoil your glee, but a jet ski doesn't have a prop. nor a propeller shaft. The reason that it's *called* a jet ski is because it's propelled with a "jet" of water. The engine will have a water intake and the motor is connected a kind of turbine that spits the water back out. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: I don't want to spoil your glee, but a jet ski doesn't have a prop. nor a propeller shaft. The reason that it's *called* a jet ski is because it's propelled with a "jet" of water. The engine will have a water intake and the motor is connected a kind of turbine that spits the water back out. Rather than have a propellor a jet ski has an impeller. Pretty much the same thing except enclosed. There is a shaft that goes straight from the motor through the impeller. The fun thing (for us, not the jet skier) is that when they ingest a rope it not only binds up the impeller it also bends the impeller shaft. This gets expensive fast. I know this because I used to own a jet powered ski boat before I saw the light and bought a kayak. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<snip> > > Rather than have a propellor a jet ski has an impeller. Pretty much the > same thing except enclosed. There is a shaft that goes straight from the > motor through the impeller. The fun thing (for us, not the jet skier) is > that when they ingest a rope it not only binds up the impeller it also > bends the impeller shaft. This gets expensive fast. I know this because > I used to own a jet powered ski boat before I saw the light and bought a > kayak. > I once considered attending a boat show and visiting a few dealers so I could better understand the mechanics of jet skis. But I never got around to it, which may be all for the better, as I don't know into what dark schemes such knowledge might have tempted me. Tom Joyce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<snip> "a jet ski doesn't have a prop. nora propeller shaft. The reason that it's *called* a jet ski is because it's propelled with a "jet" of water. The engine will have a water intake and the motor is connected a kind of turbine that spits the water back out." Don't worry about spoiling my glee; our family has chuckled many times thinking about that incident. There was definitely some spinning shaft at work under the ski, involving rotation at high speeds, because as soon as he revved it up, the line was reeled in: instantly, tightly, irreparably, with a wonderfully inappropriate "What the hell was that?" sound. If it was acting more like a jet, maybe the line was somehow sucked up into the intake valve or turbine mechanism. Tom Joyce ------------------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential, and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any further disclosure or use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message or any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:16 PM 4/16/01 -0500, Joyce, Thomas F. wrote: ><snip> > >"a jet ski doesn't have a prop. nora propeller shaft. The reason that it's >*called* a jet ski is because it's propelled with a "jet" of water. The >engine will have a water intake and the motor is connected a kind of turbine >that spits the water back out." > >Don't worry about spoiling my glee; our family has chuckled many times >thinking about that incident. There was definitely some spinning shaft at >work under the ski, involving rotation at high speeds, because as soon as he >revved it up, the line was reeled in: instantly, tightly, irreparably, with >a wonderfully inappropriate "What the hell was that?" sound. If it was >acting more like a jet, maybe the line was somehow sucked up into the intake >valve or turbine mechanism. That was probably the case. One of the advantages, or disadvantages depending on your perspective, of the jet drives is that stuff like ropes and large debris doesn't foul the propeller and, because a large propeller isn't hanging down, the watercraft can be operated much shallower. In other words, they can go places that previously only was navigable by a canoe or kayak. I hadn't really thought about it much until I kayaked a class II/III river in the Adirondacks a couple of years ago. The river fed into a large reservoir and there were a bunch of jet skis coming up from the lake into the last rapid before the takeout. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Re: "superficiality" and tendency to "narcotize:" probably some of both, Doug. I'll accept being somewhat superficial if you'll accept the other label. Pejorative exchanges aside, I suspect the "ho hum" reaction may have other, valid bases: <snip> Sorry Dave, I snipped your measured, articulate response; but I'm more sorry you went to the effort of responding to my late night crankiness. In fact, I know of a few folks who have unsubscribed or are thinking about unsubscribing because PW isn't superficial ENOUGH -- way too in-depth. Having said that, I do feel strongly that there is a large superficial percentage of paddlers out there in kayak land, especially when it comes to hypothermia. I wasn't necessarily thinking of the regulars on PW, but then I shouldn't expect people to have to read my mind. There was a bit of a discussion the other week about the "Target Risk" book. If there is an analogy with kayaking, surely it is the fact that seated in one's kayak, insulated from the cold water, paddlers can and do get fairly blasé about their close proximity to the unbelievable danger below. And as you pointed out, land-based exposure can be a danger too. I can't recall the number of times in the eighties when I used to hang out in the Broken Group, that I meet kayakers on the beach, in shorts, in a torrential downpour with high wind, grimacing with cold. "But its supposed to be August they say." Yeah, and that's why the guide books say "gales less frequent in summer". It doesn't say clear weather for 3 months. Yet, they still come out, unprepared, and equally uneducated about hypothermia -- though there is a lot less ignorant paddlers out there now than the 80's. Sorry too if I came across as a bit sensitive or looking like I need attention. Must be the two year anniversary thing with Storm Island. Left the three of us pretty "cold" for good I think. Brain no good now, master. And I'm innured to some of the more fiercst gales now, which is a dangerous position to be in. There are days out there where the execration for what I'm doing swamps my decks moreso than the heavy wind waves. 'Tis a weird life when you aren't normal. Anyway, there's lots of angels out there on the water waiting to dance, so I gotta go get ready for 'em for the easter weekend. I don't know why I don't just take up windsurfing -- nah, that's for yuppies. Am I putting you to sleep yet. Okay, by for now. 8-) DL (who enjoys everyone on this list, and says if I ever come across as negative to anyone, it's usually just my twisted humour, which is a Canadian thing). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <dlloyd_at_telus.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net>; "Dave Kruger" <dkruger_at_pacifier.com> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:36 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Hypothermia >I'm innured to some of the more fiercst gales now, which is > a dangerous position to be in. There are days out there where the > execration for what I'm doing swamps my decks moreso than the heavy > wind waves. You acknowledge the risk of what you're doing, you abhor what you're doing at times, yet you're still drawn to it; are you willing to share with us why you think you are drawn to storm paddling? if not, I understand. I don't mean to turn this into a group therapy session, but I'm honestly interested in what motivates you and others like you to chase storms, and whether or not you truly believe the associated risks justify the perceived benefits. I'm surprised the author of Target Risk didn't use you as a case study, or did he? Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Recently someone linked an article about a tragedy associated with warm air and cold water; here's a link to the follow-up article: http://www.newsobserver.com/friday/news/triangle/Story/421089p-416503c.html The article describes the pond: "The water was deep, dark and cold"; An officer noted, "that there were no life jackets on the small boat or anywhere on the property around the pond"; also noted, "...the 58-degree water may have combined with Francisco's fatigue and caused the boy to cramp, panic or become hypothermic within seconds." The article goes on to briefly cover: cold shock, hypothermia, rescue, drowning, an alternative strategy to swimming to shore, etc. and even throws in a little statistical analysis... Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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