Mike you wrote about Jack Elliot's Alternative Rolling technique- it sounded interesting. Could you give a little more details on the paddle placement and how/where the paddle shaft was grabbed to effect the roll. If it is as good as you said we should all have this one in our repetoire. Anyway it sounded neat. Wayne F *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Wayne" <wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu> > Mike you wrote about Jack Elliot's Alternative Rolling technique- it sounded > interesting. Could you give a little more details on the paddle placement and > how/where the paddle shaft was grabbed to effect the roll. If it is as good as you said > we should all have this one in our repetoire. Anyway it sounded neat. First point - it only works with unfeathered paddles. In a feathered paddle, one blade won't fit under the coaming or alternatively, won't lie on the water surface. Imagine yourself doing an Inverted Aqueous Maneouver. Place the paddle on the surface of the water at right angles to the direction of the kayak (i.e. straight out to the side). Take the blade close to you and set the tip into the space between the deck and the coaming. This space is at least an inch deep, so the paddle won't get stuck. This allows the paddle to rotate without requiring you to anchor it in any special way; both your hands are used to rotate the paddle. Now take your hand closest to the paddle and grab the shaft a comfortable distance from the kayak. Pull it towards you. The force on the floating blade way out there will cause you to rotate toward the surface. As the paddle shaft gets closer, take your other hand and reach across your body to take the shaft (outboard of the first hand) and pull, assisting the first hand. With both hands pulling, you will come all the way around. When you are finished, the blade that was closest to the kayak will now be on the skirt and the outboard blade will be out in a good position for bracing. You'll be sitting up, not in a layback position. Head flicking is not an issue (DH take note!). Sponsons not required. No animals died in its execution. (Sorry, I got carried away!) It is surprisingly simple. Two people tried it and neither failed to come up. Jen did go right over, but that's another issue. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
With regards to the "alternate" roll that some folks have claimed to see 'first-attempters' nail on their first attempt. . . . I thought to teach this roll to a friend, quite certain that he would 'nail' it on his first try. . . It didn't quite work out as planned. What ensued was comedy, drama, terror, ending in a brilliant display of (a) man's conquest over imminent doom: I had several times showed him the roll where one begins extending an unfeathered paddle to the left, floating on the water, held at the right blade-tip in the left hand (pinky gracefully extended). The next move is to roll towards the right, making sure the paddle is still firmly held, although not-so-firmly-it-even-leaves-the-very-water's-surface, and then as one turns quite upside-down, reaches up for the paddle with the right-hand. Only when the right hand has firm grasp, does the left release, and as one pulls down on the paddle with the right, the left hand rejoins the paddle, and all recovers into an extended low-brace position, fully upright. Key is to not pull down on the blade too hard, and to wait for your bodily momentum/buoyancy to slack as it lifts towards the surface on the recovery side before pulling down. Now, I'd seen this done, where the paddle is NOT held onto at first: just simply laid on deck, being found by both hands on the pull-up stage. I decided it was nice to always keep at least a dainty-touch on one blade, lest it be lost when I was trying to find it and pull down (after rolling some 180 degrees.) Anyhow, sure as I was that he'd get it, I still spotted him, as I haven't even the slightest murderous tendencies. Well, what happened shocked me: His set-up was perfect (except for the pinky). But when he rolled to the right, he hauled the paddle over with him instead of leaving it on the surface of the water to his left!!!! He clearly hadn't realized this, as when it came time to reach up for it-- with his right-hand first-- he was reaching and reaching, but the paddle was nowhere. Soon, his reaching turned into grabbing. Just when I thought it would turn in to groping, he wet-exited. We both had a good (nervous) laugh about what had happened, but we both likely felt a bit daft-- me especially for thinking that a roll was so easy, that I overlooked explaining a key point that I just assumed was obvious. It is a simple roll. . . just relax and don't haul the paddle 'round with you as you capsize. . . . Harvey ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com> To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] alternate rolls > From: "Wayne" <wrf_at_hypatia.unh.edu> > > > > Mike you wrote about Jack Elliot's Alternative Rolling technique- it sounded > > interesting. Could you give a little more details on the paddle placement and > > how/where the paddle shaft was grabbed to effect the roll. If it is as good as you said > > we should all have this one in our repetoire. Anyway it sounded neat. > > First point - it only works with unfeathered paddles. In a feathered paddle, one > blade won't fit under the coaming or alternatively, won't lie on the water surface. > > Imagine yourself doing an Inverted Aqueous Maneouver. > > Place the paddle on the surface of the water at right angles to the direction of the > kayak (i.e. straight out to the side). Take the blade close to you and set the tip > into the space between the deck and the coaming. This space is at least an inch > deep, so the paddle won't get stuck. This allows the paddle to rotate without > requiring you to anchor it in any special way; both your hands are used to rotate > the paddle. > > Now take your hand closest to the paddle and grab the shaft a comfortable distance > from the kayak. Pull it towards you. The force on the floating blade way out there > will cause you to rotate toward the surface. As the paddle shaft gets closer, take > your other hand and reach across your body to take the shaft (outboard of the first > hand) and pull, assisting the first hand. With both hands pulling, you will come > all the way around. > > When you are finished, the blade that was closest to the kayak will now be on the skirt > and the outboard blade will be out in a good position for bracing. You'll be sitting up, not > in a layback position. Head flicking is not an issue (DH take note!). Sponsons not > required. No animals died in its execution. (Sorry, I got carried away!) > > It is surprisingly simple. Two people tried it and neither failed to come up. Jen did go > right over, but that's another issue. > > Mike > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm having trouble trying to visualize the technique. Does anyone know of a book or article that illustrates this? Tony Niilus *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Mike you wrote about Jack Elliot's Alternative Rolling technique- it >>sounded interesting. Could you give a little more details on the paddle >>placement and how/where the paddle shaft was grabbed to effect the roll. >>If it is as good as you said we should all have this one in our repetoire. >> Anyway it sounded neat. >> Wayne, If you need some visual clues, the very similar roll that Harvey described (put across, pull-down) is shown in John Heath's "Amphibious Man", video, demonstrated by John Petersen. If you can keep control of the paddle, you can repeat the roll again and again, a "roto-roll", as shown in the video. If you don't keep control of the paddle then you can wallop yourself in the face (don't ask me how I know this), probably why the paddle-tip under the coaming variant was conceived. Perhaps Harvey's raised pinky technique, along with being cultured, is also a good idea. FYI, there are several Greenland rolls that rely on levering the paddle off the hull/deck and are fun to perform. Another simple alternative roll that I enjoy is to use the paddle floating parallel to the kayak to rebound up from, similar to how you use a pool ledge to practice hipsnaps. I often use this roll to tune my offside hipsnap. The roll works best with a unfeathered paddle. And then there are all the Greenland rolls.... Greg Stamer Orlando, Florida _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There is an article in the Winter 92 Sea Kayaker magazine titled" A Roll for All Ages " by Tom Cromwell which describes this roll. He calls it the " pivot roll". Tom has described this on Paddlewise in the past. It is the first roll that I learned and still use it today. Using the article (which includes drawings) I was able to roll the first day. I use a Greenland paddle now so I don't have to reverse the paddle after the roll. You can order articles from Sea Kayaker for $3.00. frank montbriand > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed > here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire > responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. > Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net > Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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