Expensive Piles of Unnecessary Gear; the notion drives me nuts. The point is that the lady wore NOTHING to protect her from the cold. She almost made it anyway. If she had been wearing ANY piece of CHEAP coated polartec, she probably would have survived. The constant cry that DRYSUITS are too expensive so we have to wear street clothes is a TOTAL misrepresentation of what is available. The nonsense about NO ONE WEARS such protection is not a justification for continued regional ignorance. BOOTS! Unbelieveable. Wetsuit boots are cheap! Flares, VHF radios etc are all great, but that stuff is NOT IN THE SAME category as PFD's and wetsuit gear when paddlers are out on cold water. etc. etc. We can do better than this. Someone talk to these people! Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree. How can anyone put a price on their life? Anyone who paddles cold water without appropriate immersion clothing is asking for trouble. Where else would you need a dry-suit if not Alaska? Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: <skimmer_at_mail3.enter.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 9:31 AM Subject: [Paddlewise] Homer Alaska snip > The constant cry that DRYSUITS are too expensive so we have to wear > street clothes is a TOTAL misrepresentation of what is available. > > The nonsense about NO ONE WEARS such protection is not a > justification for continued regional ignorance. snip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The Anchorage paper did have a picture of the couple that was not on the web site. It showed her getting ready to paddle wearing a knit cap, a vynil rain coat (not a paddle jacket), and heavy vynil rain pants. "Poormans paddling gear" >From what I read I gather they were caretaking the lodge over the winter in exchange for a place to stay. (not an uncommon practice up here) so I doubt they could have afforded expensive dry suits. Still the tradegy was caused by lack of good judgement. They based their decision on when to go paddling and how far to go paddling on the current conditions and situation. When they started paddling I am sure they felt their clothing was adequate for the temperatures and winds and that their skills were adequate for the sea conditions. However when things changed for the worse they were sadly unprepared. I am lucky I got caugh unprepared several years ago on a hiking trip in West Virginia and survived a cold night with no survival gear. Since then I have tended to be over prepared (if there is such a thing). First I tend to over dress, adding an extra layer just in case. I have been in situation both in kayaking and dog mushing where the temps. dropped dramatically and was not in a position to get out the gear bag and put on more clothing. I have learned to put up with being too hot while paddling but it beats being too cold. Second just like Scott I carry a bright yellow emergency bag behind my seat. I generally contains first aid, space blanket, matches and fire starter, heat packs, signal mirror, parachute cord , knife and a couple power bars. Also I have sewn on to the back of my PFD a small survival kit (Yes I know this is a no no but a coast guard friend told me once he would rather see me prepared then dead) Sewing it on to the PFD means if I flip and can't get my emergency bag out of the boat that I will have some survival gear if I make it to shore. This kit contains basically the same thing as my emergency bag except in smaller quanities. I always carry flares and power bars in my PFD pocket and wear a teckna knife. AND I ALWAYS WEAR MY PFD! In the colder months or when I know I am going out a ways and the wind may not let me come home when I want, I carry a gear bag with extra clothes , food and a small sleeping bag. I carry a VHF radio and keep it accessible. Even though most of my paddling is solo, my wife always know where I plan to paddle to and what colors I am wearing. The boy scouts have it right "Be Prepared" Bob Alaska (where only the prepared survive) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> > Also I have sewn on to the back of my PFD a small survival kit (Yes I > know this is a no no but a coast guard friend told me once he would rather > see me prepared then dead) Sewing it on to the PFD means if I flip and can't > get my emergency bag out of the boat that I will have some survival gear if > I make it to shore. This kit contains basically the same thing as my > emergency bag except in smaller quanities. I think this is a good approach and am in the middle of making a similar PFD micro-backpack. Serratus makes a couple for their line of PFDs. (http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=251417 Scroll down to the Flak River Fountain and Optional Pocket) These are not sewn onto the PFD, but clip into the existing webbing. The one I'm making is a little different, but hooks onto the shoulder strap webbing and towing strap of my Lotus PFD. The key is to make them small and flat. I haven't tried it yet (since it's still half constructed), but I doubt it will seriously affect my layback rolls (at least not one I'm likely to use in a real life situation - as opposed to those I do fooling around). This makes it a tad preferable to the hip pack (or fanny pack) style rig in a past issue of SK Mag. Three advantages of the clip-on approach - you haven't violated any CG rule, you can take off the pack without removing the PFD and no strings attached. My micro pack is like the Rev. Bob's - essentials for land and rescue - water purifier + rolled up ziplock Platypus bag, matches in a waterproof case, magnesium striker, mylar body bag, orienteering compass, flares, dye marker (even works on snow) mirror etc. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Have you seen the new Lotus Pouch that fits all Lotus PFD? It is well designed and even has break away attachment fittings so if it gets caught it will break off the vest. Cost is about $23- $26 US. Jim et al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rev. Bob Carter" <revkayak_at_mtaonline.net> To: "paddlewise" <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Homer Alaska > Also I have sewn on to the back of my PFD a small survival kit (Yes I > know this is a no no but a coast guard friend told me once he would rather > see me prepared then dead) Sewing it on to the PFD means if I flip and can't > get my emergency bag out of the boat that I will have some survival gear if > I make it to shore. This kit contains basically the same thing as my > emergency bag except in smaller quanities. > Bob > Alaska (where only the prepared survive) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Carter wrote... " Even though most of my paddling is solo, my wife always know where I plan to paddle to and what colors I am wearing. The boy scouts have it right "Be Prepared"" I was beginning to think that many of the kayakers in here had never heard of the Boy Scouts. As a Cub and now a Scout leader I teach young people to be prepared. It's disheartening to read all these posts from adults who cannot be bothered. It makes one wonder. No I don't believe you need have every safety item listed, but you better have the risk assessment skills down pat. You should know how to assess your risks. If you don't have immersion gear when paddling in cold water - don't go further offshore then you can swim in freezing water. Do know how to read and understand weather forecasts. I could go on; but what's the point. Those who got this years ago will understand and those who don't won't. If people choose not to practice safety or use safety equipment in this sport that's their choice. However it is irresponsible to influence others who may be new or just impressionable into adopting that position. I guess that's why PW adds a caveat at the end of each post. gordin Warner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
yes and I would love to get one but it means spending the $$$ for a new PFD also bob -----Original Message----- From: Jim <jfarrelly5_at_home.com> To: paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net <paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net> Date: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Homer Alaska >Have you seen the new Lotus Pouch that fits all Lotus PFD? It is well >designed and even has break away attachment fittings so if it gets caught it >will break off the vest. Cost is about $23- $26 US. > >Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At Monday, 4 February 2002, "Jim" <jfarrelly5_at_home.com> wrote: >Have you seen the new Lotus Pouch that fits all Lotus PFD? [SNIP] Hey all, I have the Lotus EFT backpack. http://www.patagonia.com/webapp/commerce/Pgonia/Product. jsp?merchant_rn=7385&cgrfnbr=285083&sku=L1250 (take out breaks before pasting) I had the pouch but didn't like it much. I've had the EFT for two years and love it. It lies flat and doesn't interfere at all with rolls of any sort, even with a high back deck. Just don't overstuff it. I usually keep a water pouch (a cheap Platypus Bigmouth) in the summer, or a thermos in the winter. I have thought about carrying my survival things in the pack, but as I've written here before I keep most of that stuff in a Naglene bottle in the cockpit. The EFT is pricey ($65 US), but I think it is worth it. I have an early Lotus Rio Grande that I got before they developed their specific sea kayaking vests and it really adds some functionality to it. The EFT will fit pretty much any PFD and while it looks a little big on the site, it is actually quite slim and lies flat when empty. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That looks a lot like what I've been looking for. How detachable is it--can it take a pounding? Also, does it interfere with rolling off or onto the back deck? Thanks, Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Maun" <patrick_at_patrickmaun.com> > Hey all, > > I have the Lotus EFT backpack. http://www.patagonia.com/webapp/commerce/Pgonia/Product. > jsp?merchant_rn=7385&cgrfnbr=285083&sku=L1250 snip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At Tuesday, 5 February 2002, "Craig MacKinnon" <elroca_at_earthlink. net> wrote: >That looks a lot like what I've been looking for. How detachable is it-->can it take a pounding? Also, does it interfere with rolling off or onto >the back deck? It is a pretty solid attachment. I've taken it off once in awhile, but it does take a few minutes. It isn't just a slip on slip off kind of thing. The side straps that hold in in to the PFD attach with these small plastic looking things to the side-cinches on the Lotus PFD. The top half of the EFT is held to the PFD with backpack- like straps. Imagine the shoulder straps on your PFD as your arms - they wrap around theose. The straps You could use it on a PFD without side-straps but it would not be as tight a fit. As I said before, it doesn't interfere with screw type rolls unless you stuff it full of things. All my boats tend to have fairly high back decks (Khatsalano, GTS) and I have never noticed it when sculling or rolling. It doesn't move at all on the PFD, but this may be because I also have a Lotus PFD. I keep it on my PFD even when it is empty for pool sessions of whatever. I really don't know it is there. I can't see it being any more distracting than the Palm-style back pocket. If having something on your back bugs you, this probably would too. I bought mine off-the-shelf so had a chance to look at it before buying it. If you are interested and don't have a Lotus PFD, I'd just send them an e-mail and see if they think the attachment would be as good with a diffrent brand. -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> >That looks a lot like what I've been looking for. How detachable > is it-->can it take a pounding? Also, does it interfere with rolling > off or onto >the back deck? > > It is a pretty solid attachment. I've taken it off once in awhile, > but it does take a few minutes. It isn't just a slip on slip off > kind of thing. The pack is now on sale at Cascade Outfitters 27% off. Such a deal! Only $40 for you Lotus enthusiasts. http://www.cascadeoutfitters.com/shop/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=504 I notice the beverage bladder doesn't come with it so there is an extra expense, and it might be an older model, but still a good deal. -- MZ visit my website: http://www.mzuschlag.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for the link. Interesting, it looks like they have redesigned it as the attachment system and overall look is different on mine. Mine also has small-diameter shockcords on the exterior. The Platypus hydration system I use is cheap. I think mine was $12US for the 1-liter version. Just a tough clear bladder with the drink tube. The big mouth version opens on the end with a zip-lock like closure that is tough and has never failed on me. This allows you to clean, dry, fill the thing with ice in the summer and to fill with water in the field. Remember to put the bladder in upsidedown so the water is always flowing in the tube. The hydration system is nice as it allows you to drink much more often and pretty much constantly. I love it during the hot summer months when I am doing distance and endurance training. You can also drink in rough conditions - you know, those times when the waves are giving you a case of drymouth and you really want to drink but doing so would mean stopping and we all know what happens when you stop in the wind and waves. -Patrick At Tuesday, 5 February 2002, "Mary Zuschlag" <mzuschlag_at_attbi.com> wrote: > >The pack is now on sale at Cascade Outfitters 27% off. Such a deal! Only >$40 for you Lotus enthusiasts. >http://www.cascadeoutfitters.com/shop/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=504 > >I notice the beverage bladder doesn't come with it so there is an extra >expense, and it might be an older model, but still a good deal. -- MZ [SNIP] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "gordin warner" <hmgwarner_at_shaw.ca> snip >If you don't have immersion gear when paddling in cold water - > don't go further offshore then you can swim in freezing water. snip which is probably not that far. For anyone interested, check out: http://www.enter.net/~skimmer/coldwater.html and scroll down to the bottom and read about the Marines crossing the Potomac in '68. From the site, "They wore sweat suits. They had seat cushions but no life jackets. The water temperature was 36 degrees F. None of these men were able to swim the 100 yards to shore." Staying close to shore is also problematic with near shore currents, rips, off shore winds, etc. My rule is never to paddle cold water without appropriate immersion clothing, regardless of how close to shore I intend to stay--the unexpected happens, just read Deep Trouble. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Craig MacKinnon" <elroca_at_earthlink.net> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gordin warner" <hmgwarner_at_shaw.ca> > snip > >If you don't have immersion gear when paddling in cold water - > > don't go further offshore then you can swim in freezing water. > snip > > which is probably not that far. For anyone interested, check out: > [...] I once took a skinny dip in a pool in John's Brook in the Adirondacks during an early spring backpacking trip. It was unusually warm (>20C) for that time of year, but the water was snow melt coming down the mountain and wasn't much above freezing. I jumped in, and started swimming for a rock in mid-stream about 25-30 feet away. I barely made it. My muscles locked up and were useless little more than halfway across. I sat on the rock in the fetus position and shivered in the sun, wondering how I was going to get back! Believe me, freezing water can disable you very, very quickly if you're not dressed for it. I rather doubt that street clothes are much better than naked in those conditions. Mike PS - I got of the rock and back to shore when I saw a troop of Girl Guides hiking up the trail towards me! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Believe me, I've been there. Anyone who has jumped in and tried swimming in ice cold water with minimal clothing knows you don't get very far; and if safety is near and you make it out of the water, it does take awhile to recover. It's like touching a hot stove: you might do it once, but never again--unless of course you're a member of the Polar Bear Club! Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Daly" <michaeldaly_at_rogers.com> > > I once took a skinny dip in a pool in John's Brook in the Adirondacks > during an early spring backpacking trip. It was unusually warm (>20C) > for that time of year, but the water was snow melt coming down the > mountain and wasn't much above freezing. I jumped in, and started > swimming for a rock in mid-stream about 25-30 feet away. I barely > made it. My muscles locked up and were useless little more than > halfway across. I sat on the rock in the fetus position and shivered > in the sun, wondering how I was going to get back! snip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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