Hello, My name is Kait O'Hara. I believe Kirk Olsen may have written you about my project. The U.S. Coast Guard has hired me to do a search for information on sponson use in the paddling community. I am hoping that through this e-mail I can gain permission to use the information from the PaddleWise Sponson Discussion (http://www.paddlewise.com/topics/boatequip/sponson.html) in my report. I have composed two summaries, the first you will find at the bottom of this document and the second is an excel spreadsheet. The Excel sheet is a break down of commenter and subjects, as well as direct quotes (mostly copied & pasted). It is available at www.potomacmgmt.com/sponsons/. The user name is 'sponsons' and the password is 'quote'. Ideally, I would like to use your ideas in the findings discussion. PaddleWise requires I receive permission from each commenter to reproduce. I am hoping you will give me that permission. If you feel as though I have misrepresented your thoughts, please send me an e-mail correcting my previous statement. It might be important to note that I have not categorized most of John Winters comments. I will incorporate them into my report, but may not include them in the same format, due to the nature of his experiences with sponsons (having different experiences/impressions of sponsons). If you would like to add to your comments, or add new comments, they would be more than welcome. I am looking for information on their uses (it seems as though this discussions revolved around the SeaWings, however I am also looking at other variations i.e., Sportspal Canoe, homemade ect...), deployment, and efficiency. You can either re-open the discussion, or reply only to me, at kohara_at_potomacmgmt.com. Thank you for your time. Kaitlin O'Hara List of Previous Participants Colin Calder Jim Croft Dana Decker Ralph Diaz JackieFenton George Gronseth Dan Hagen Chuck Holst Brian Jones Keith Kaste WayneLangmaid Bob Myers Greg Stamer Wayne Steffens Ted Whitney John Winters Philip Wylie Mark Zen Scott (KiAyker) General Ralph Diaz, of the Folding Kayak Newsletter and the Complete Folding Kayaker, stated SeaWings are extremely well made. Voyager, who manufactures the sponsons, is a reputable company. According to Diaz, "they are as fail-safe as anything can be." They are firm, hold air, and there are only a few cases of manufacturing defects or air loss. Diaz stated that he himself had not used sponsons, but had heard about situations where they did save lives on several occasions. Chuck Holst, Founder and former president, Inland Sea Kayakers, mentioned he had met a few kayakers who had used them, one of which was an experience paddler who used them because he frequently paddled by himself. Deployment According to Diaz, the pre-setup is not difficult, but necessary. The fastex buckles must be mated and adjusted to a paddler's particular boat. He mentioned sponsons would not be effective in a self rescue if the pre-setup was not completed. Wayne Langmaid, a professional kayak guide for Central Coast Kayak Tours in Australia, (he mentioned that he paddles for business and personal trips about 25 days a month) pointed out that from his experience in rough conditions, decklines can be nearly impossible to hold on to; in fact it can nearly rip off one^Òs fingers as the wave catches it and causes it and causes the bow or stern and rocket up or down. Langmaid even compared it to getting back onto a very uncooperative bucking bronco. He has experienced serious bruising of fingers from gripping decklines in similar conditions. These experiences cause him to wonder how sponsons could be deployed in the situations which caused one to capsize. Langmaid also voiced concerns that similar to decklines, sponsons can give a false sense of security. He also warned that when a paddler is out of his/her boat they are dealing with a "potentially lethal weapon." Philip Wyle added that he agreed with Langmaid, and pointed out that blowing up the sponsons would be an even greater challenge in said conditions. He proceeded to hypothesize that CO2 cartridge inflatable system would be better. Ingram has a patent for this but has had trouble recruiting a company to manufacture. Effect on Performance Bob Myers commented that he tried sponsons on his tippy boat, and they "really slowed the boat down, at least subjectively." He felt as though he was "plowing through the water." Diaz, on the other hand, found that in actual paddling conditions, they cause a minimal amount of drag. He found that if they were properly setup, they would only touch the water if the boat was being tossed around, under which conditions they would be serving their purpose. A friend of Diaz's used them with his Aerius 2000 (very tippy) and he frequently used them for comfort. According to Diaz, it hardly slowed him down, but it did look very funny. Towing or Injured Many members of the Group thought that sponsons could be useful for towing injured or sick paddlers. Jackie Fenton thought sponsons, coupled with other safety equipment, might be useful to have on group trips, especially if one of their paddlers became incapacitated (either injured or sick). Ralph Diaz, Wayne Steffens, and Kieth Kaste originally agreed with this statement. However, Chuck Holst pointed out that the sponsons may not be of use if the leader's boat was equipped with them, because the pre-setup would not be done on the injured or sick paddler's boat; making them useless. Diaz reconsidered saying that pre-setup is "absolutely crucial for someone alone." Diaz speculated that setup could be done in the water if a group was working on it, but in such a case an assisted rescue would be quicker and more effective over a wide range of conditions. Diaz stated that he considers it more of a "moving on device" that facilitates dumped paddlers to paddle to land or safe point. He claimed in many of the classic episodes in the Sea Kayaker and other accident reports, of dumping situations, the affected paddler is prone to continue dumping. He further claimed that the real value of sponsons lies in their ability to stop the dumping which gives a paddler a chance to regain composure. Accordingly, Jim Croft mentioned that there were a couple of instances on his club trips when sponsons could have potentially effective. There have been at least two occasions where a normally adequate paddler became seasick to the extent of being unable to stay upright. In order to tow the injured, one person had to hold up the seasick paddler, while the other towed the weight of two dead bodies. Croft felt sponsons may have been useful in these situations. Non-Vital Uses Diaz claimed a fellow paddler used sponsons as close-in outriggers, these enabled him to sail his fairly small 18 square-foot craft. Dan Hagen mentioned he found them most useful for hygiene breaks. He confirmed that he does not like beamy boats, but does enjoy the option of temporarily increasing the beam for additional stability. Other Recommended Devices Langmaid suggested that there is no substitute for avoidance of dangerous situations and solid paddling skills because training is far better than being outside of your boat. Bob Myers suggested that using California Ballast Rocks T with inflated float bags to keep rocks in place was a far superior method of achieving temporary stability. John Winters, naval architect and designer of QCC kayaks and Swift canoes, suggested creating paddle craft with sufficient stability for reentry. Handicapped Paddlers Mark Zen, a experienced paddler who is disabled, stated that he thought he could have really used sponsons; furthermore for the disabled they would be great. Winters suggested that they would be a poor solution for a handicapped person, because they would be forced to paddle with the sponsons deployed all the time, in which case they may be better off having a properly designed boat; or he/she would be forced to deploy them after capsize, which in certain conditions is not a certain thing. Conclusions Chuck Holst, may have summed it up best when he said, "I have never met a kayaker who could not roll who was equipped with sponsons. It is my experience that it is often the kayakers with the least skills and are the least prepared who are the most sure of themselves." Tim Ingram Many of the commenters said they would not be interested in buying a pair of Tim Ingram's sponsons because of his sales tactics, and the cost of his product, SeaWings. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just know I'm going to hate myself for writing this. ;-) On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 01:06:04PM -0500, Kaitlin O'Hara wrote: > I have composed two summaries, the first you will find at the bottom of this > document and the second is an excel spreadsheet. Sorry, but I can't read information in proprietary formats. It would probably be best to save it as HTML and post *that* -- yeah, it'll be formatted with the horrible mess of MS-HTML, but at least everyone will be able to read it. My name is Rich Kulawiec. Unlike the majority of people on this list, I'm a whitewater paddler. I don't consider myself an expert, but I have been paddling for many years and have competed at the US Slalom National Championships a couple of times without hurting myself too badly, so I have at least some minimal expertise. (On the hand, I've never held any instructor certifications or anything like that.) So let me try to succintly tell you what I think about this from the viewpoint of a river paddler (because it's not clear what your objective is, and so I suppose it's open as to whether it includes people paddling on rivers): Sponsons are completely useless to whitewater paddlers. Re-entry into a whitewater kayak can be done: I've practiced it myself in flatwater and done it for fun on hot days. But doing a re-entry in any kind of whitewater is nearly impossible: any rapid violent enough to flip a kayak in the first place will make it difficult to even stay with the boat, let alone get control of it, attach sponsons to it, and then somehow manage to get into it. I've taken a few accidental swims in rapids over the years, and just trying to hang onto my boat and my paddle, while perhaps manuevering a bit to avoid getting pummeled, is difficult enough. Anybody in that situation wasting time, energy and attention fiddling with sponsons is going to be worse off, not better. Much, much worse off. (And attaching them ahead of time would be silly: it would make the boat difficult to paddle and hard to roll.) The best safety measures for whitewater paddlers are -- in order: 1. Experience/judgement. Use it to know what to run and what to walk around. Use it to pick the best way/safest way. Use it to come up with Plan B in a hurry. Use it to decide not to paddle today at all because you're just not ready. 2. Training/skill. Take correct strokes; use river features to maximum advantage. Develop strength, flexibility and endurance sufficient for prolonged, violent rapids. Learn and practice a whitewater roll, preferably on both sides, with and without a paddle. Learn and practice self-rescue and other-rescue skills. 3. Lifejacket. (needed if #1 and #2 are insufficient) 4. Helmet. (protects brain needed for #1 and #2) 5. All the other gear -- throw ropes, carabiners, first aid kit, etc. that you hope you won't have to use. Sponsons don't make the list. ---Rsk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear Ms.O'Hara: Please provide the following: 1. The name, address, telephone, fax, and email of the person in the U.S. Coast Guard who oversees PMG's project. 2. The terms of reference of the project. 3. The methodology for your report. 4. Your resume, including paddling certifications and naval archictect certifications, and full publication list. Yours truly, Richard Culpeper *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 01:06 PM, Kaitlin O'Hara wrote: > Langmaid suggested that there is no substitute for avoidance of > dangerous > situations and solid paddling skills because training is far better > than > being outside of your boat. Bob Myers suggested that using California > Ballast Rocks T with inflated float bags to keep rocks in place was a > far > superior method of achieving temporary stability. John Winters, naval > architect and designer of QCC kayaks and Swift canoes, suggested > creating > paddle craft with sufficient stability for reentry. > I forget, how do the California Ballast Rocks differ from the Canadian Ballast Rocks? And exactly how much faith should we put in research that doesn't know when someone is joking. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>Bob Myers suggested that using California >>Ballast Rocks T with inflated float bags to keep rocks in place was a far >>superior method of achieving temporary stability. I had suggested using REAL New Zealand Pumice Rocks (TM) as being superior due to their ability to float, can be found while on the water in some places and we need the export orders. >I forget, how do the California Ballast Rocks differ from the Canadian >Ballast Rocks (TM)? Flowers in their hair? >And exactly how much faith should we put in research that doesn't know >when someone is joking. And writes down T instead of (TM). Aside from all that, I use water ballast in wine cask liners (sometimes) and carry a paddle float if my partner isn't with me carrying her's. I have a VERY tippy kayak. Paddle float = small, outrigger-sponson. Advantages, easily and quickly rigged, non boat-specific rigging. I think because of lack of any dealings with sea kayaking she has totally missed the point. Alex . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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