Hello I was looking at pigtails (cow tails) for a towing rig. Is there any particular reason why one couldn't use a piece of stretch cord (possibly of the sailboat variety) and a pair of rope climbing caribeeners? Thoughts? Derek --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: > Is there any particular reason why one couldn't use a piece of > stretch cord (possibly of the sailboat > variety) and a pair of rope climbing caribeeners? Derek, Last year at the Southwest Symposium in San Diego, I was having a conversation with Wayne Horodowich and several others about tow ropes and nobody could think of an instance where we had heard of a tow rope breaking. Then we found out that during a class on incident management, a tow rope broke while trying to tow an incapacitated paddler off of a beach through good sized surf. Of course the only line that broke was a home-made line. My policy when it comes to safety equipment is to not scrimp. Spend the bucks and get something you know will work when it's needed. Steve Holtzman Southern Calif *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: >Hello > >I was looking at pigtails (cow tails) for a towing >rig. Is there any particular reason why one couldn't >use a piece of stretch cord (possibly of the sailboat >variety) and a pair of rope climbing caribeeners? >Thoughts? > >Derek > >I made about three different tow rigs before giving in and buying one. A function issue I have encountered with carabiners is that small bit that sticks up on the inside of the gate. It catches rope like crazy. Even my store bought North Water tow system came with a biner. I removed it after a few uses. > http://www.northwater.com/html/tow_systems.html I went to West Marine and payed about $24 US for a very good stainless steel clip. It functions perfectly with one hand. After a few years of abuse it still looks new. Make sure you can use all this stuff with your paddling gloves on. I never, ever thought I would use a tow rope. I have used it three times. Once in a critical situation. Twice to get inexperienced paddlers in rec boats home after a long paddle. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> >I made about three different tow rigs before giving > in and buying one. A function issue I have > encountered with carabiners is that small bit that > sticks up on the inside of the gate. It catches > rope like crazy. Even my store bought North Water > tow system came with a biner. I removed it after a > few uses. The hook challenge can be overcome. You need to select a caribeener without a hook shaped gate. MEC sells a variety of these. With the hook gone, the catching issue should also be gone. Derek --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When I first got into technical rock climbing we routinely made a lot of our gear using webbing and biners. For instance, we made sit and chest harnesses from web rotated into a figure-8 and fastened in front with a caribiner. Sometimes we would have our wives or girlfriends sew them together but just as often we'd use blood-knots. So, in general, I have no problem with carefully made safety gear. Of course that term "carefully made" can be the catch. Sailboat equipment can be strong and well-built but in these days of asian imports I'm not at all sure I'd trust my life to something I bought at the marine supply store unless I had some independent knowledge of its adaptability. Also rope on a sailboat is generally chosen for its lack of stretch while rope for climbers is stretchy by design. Even though they look identical the characteristics can be very different. Because the way we must depend upon our equipment in kayaking more closely parallels the way climbers have to rely on their gear, I think that I'd look to a climbing supply store (REI, for instance) and look at their equipment and then compare that with what you find at a West Marine. One caveat to that advice, however, concerns the salt water environment. Climbing equipment might not be up to exposure to salt water and salt-laden air simply because the gear is not designed for that environment. And not all "stainless steel" is equal. Before I'd build some safety gear for sea kayaking I think I'd make sure that my stainless is suitable. Some of the other paddlewisers are much more knowledgable about metallurgy than I am and I'm sure they'd have good ideas on this. Of course, manufacturers of sea kayak safety gear can also have issues with poor quality stainless hardware so it's probably a good idea to be cautious there, as well. If I built my own tow-rig I'd want to test it thoroughly in a safe environment (like the lake in front of our lake house) before putting it to into regular service and then test it frequently. This, again, is a good idea with store-bought gear too. By the way... bungee cord was - and is still - used in landing gear of classic airplanes (like the Piper J-3 Cub, Taylorcrafts and Aeroncas) as a shock absorber so it should be adequate for towing as long as any connections between it and other lines are well made. Craig Jungers Mellowed out in Royal City, WA On 10/16/06, Jim Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: > > Derek wrote: > > >Hello > > > >I was looking at pigtails (cow tails) for a towing > >rig. Is there any particular reason why one couldn't > >use a piece of stretch cord (possibly of the sailboat > >variety) and a pair of rope climbing caribeeners? > >Thoughts? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > When I first got into technical rock climbing we routinely made a lot of our > gear using webbing and biners. .... So, in general, I have no problem with > carefully made safety gear. I don't advocate pinching pennies at the risk of, well, risk, but some kayaking gear just doesn't need to be as strong as, say, climbing gear. The North Water Combing Tow Line has line with a breaking strength of 363kg (800lb.). My homebrew tow lines use stretchy rope rated at maybe 250 pounds. If something was pulling at me with much more force than that, I'd just as soon part company with it. No, I can't use them to lower boats and people off cliffs into the water, but I don't want to do that, and anyhow, there are no sea cliffs in this part of the world. I've used them several times to drag people home, and nobody has complained yet. YMMV. Steve -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve Cramer wrote: > The North Water Combing Tow Line has line with a breaking strength of > 363kg (800lb.). My homebrew tow lines use stretchy rope rated at maybe > 250 pounds. Some paddling shops sell polypropylene braided line by the meter/ft/yd that is the same as the stuff used in commercially available tow kits. I've also seen floating Spectra sheath + polypro core line sold at the same shops if you want the lighter line. As long as you buy good quality materials, you can make your own gear that's just as good as the retail products. You do have to pay attention to details such as how the sewing is done on parts or what kinds of knots are used. My experience is that you only save a bit of cash (if any) but you can get things that fit your needs better. I made a tow belt for my PFD (PFD has provision for the belt). A friend bought one made for WW. Mine releases when towing. He tested his with me last weekend and his did not release properly when he closed it with the braking bar as per WW instructions. I advised him to not use the braking bar that way, since it adds too much friction to the rig. It's essential for taking the kinds of load that WW rescue entails. My test show that the braking bar is superfluous for towing. BTW, as far as carabiners in freezing weather - I'm not aware of special carabiners made for ice climbing. Salt will be a problem, not temperature. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly wrote: > BTW, as far as carabiners in freezing weather - I'm not aware of special > carabiners made for ice climbing. Salt will be a problem, not temperature. I think Derek's concern is valid, because deck gear is extensively exposed to liquid water, which can then freeze if the air is cold enough. Similar problem to fishboats running through heavy seas when the air is really cold. Ice climbers (I was one for a couple decades) work in an environment where there is essentially no liquid water to accumulate on their gear ... so nothing can stick, and then freeze. Ice chunks and snow just slough off. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > Ice climbers (I was one for a couple decades) work in an environment > where there is essentially no liquid water to accumulate on their gear > ... so nothing can stick, and then freeze. Ice chunks and snow just > slough off. My only defense is that I used to guide ice climbers from the university's outing club house to the local waterfall. I was one of the only skiers that knew the unmarked and little used trails to said location. One thing that amazed me was how often they'd climb ice in wet conditions. I remember the club prez, a keen climber, used to complain if it was too cold. I've always associated ice climbing with water, in spite of the climbing mags showing crisp cold air and bright blue skies above towering spires of ice. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > One caveat to that advice, however, concerns the salt water environment. > Climbing equipment might not be up to exposure to salt water and salt-laden > air simply because the gear is not designed for that environment. And not > all "stainless steel" is equal. Before I'd build some safety gear for sea > kayaking I think I'd make sure that my stainless is suitable. Some of the > other paddlewisers are much more knowledgable about metallurgy than I am and > I'm sure they'd have good ideas on this. Avoid SS 304; look for SS 316. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/16/2006 7:53:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, sh_at_actglobal.net writes: Last year at the Southwest Symposium in San Diego, I was having a conversation with Wayne Horodowich and several others about tow ropes and nobody could think of an instance where we had heard of a tow rope breaking. Then we found out that during a class on incident management, a tow rope broke while trying to tow an incapacitated paddler off of a beach through good sized surf. Of course the only line that broke was a home-made line. My policy when it comes to safety equipment is to not scrimp. Spend the bucks and get something you know will work when it's needed. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I made my tow rope because they don't make one like I want one. The Northwater is like what, $80 bucks? Nice bag, but then I'd just have to chuck their ss krab and add the Wichard snaphook I like. The Seatec has 30 feet of line which ain't adequate in swells of average height, so one needs an extender. Yes, that last comment is based on an observation, not theory. For all that I just bought the material, transferred my line into it and am very happy. I have enough material to make another. I also retired my old tow bag before it died so that it acts as a spare for those that forget theirs. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: > I was looking at pigtails (cow tails) for a towing > rig. Is there any particular reason why one couldn't > use a piece of stretch cord (possibly of the sailboat > variety) and a pair of rope climbing caribeeners? Standard advice for pigtails is "Don't make your own!" However, that comes from the WW world and a pigtail in that environment has to stand quite a load - the usual recommended capacity is 500kg (1100lb) static tension (That's in Walbridge's rescue book - I don't know what the most recent standards, if any, are). Most people would not be able to make a pigtail that will be guaranteed to handle that load without a lot of testing. If you are only using it for towing, you are looking at loads below a couple of hundred pounds - even 100 lb will likely hurt the tower. In fact, it may be desirable to have the tow system break rather than your spine. Most pigtails consist of a length of tubular webbing (for strength) with a core of elastic (for shock absorption and length reduction). You could make this. You wouldn't want two carabiners, but one D ring and a carabiner. The D ring attaches to the towing belt and the carabiner to the object towed (kayak, tow line...). Many use a paddle biner (AKA Kong, now available with wire gate) or a smaller Wichart stainless steel carabiner (expensive but highly rust resistant and in some models with no "tooth" on the gate closure). Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>I was looking at pigtails (cow tails) for a towing rig. Is there any particular reason why one couldn't use a piece of stretch cord (possibly of the sailboat variety) and a pair of rope climbing caribeeners? Thoughts? Yeah, several years back I had the same idea. Why spend the money when I can make my own? So I spent about a week tracking down and collecting all the materials I needed to make my own homemade "cow tail" - the hollow webbing and the bungee cord, and the stainless "D" ring and carabineer. Then I spent the better part of a weekend attempting to put it all together in a manner that could withstand the stress of a tow without coming apart. When I finished I had a pretty good product, if I do say so myself! Only then did I look at the price of what it would cost to buy one. My materials alone were more then the commercial model! When you throw in all the labor - - -. Well, I just bout a new "rescue" pfd and paid the extra for the commercial tow tether. Ya live and ya learn :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I backchanneled Steve Hotzmann on this subject but want to add to what Scott has said a little more publically. Namely, the retail price of components is often higher than the finished product you want to buy. Let alone the hours you spend making it. However, if you know what you are doing you might end up with something better than the store bought thing. In my gear closet I have a box called the *box of formerly good ideas*. It is now a reservoir for spare parts, but it also contains all my things I've made, torn apart, jettisoned, etc. Much of that was towing based. After years of towing for real or practice I made what I thought was a great tow rig. Problem was, I put a low bid cam lok on the belt and it came undone accidentally a couple of times. I put a new one on it and it is now a great rig. The retail price of components and the 3-4 hours I put into it make it equal to the price of a Northwater Seatec or similar rig but I like mine way better. It took years to *get* towing though, to make the changes that I like. Me, I 'd go store bought until you can tell what makes a good tow rig from experience. YMMV, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I mentioned that we routinely made our own climbing gear years ago but I should have also mentioned that we had several books available plus some Seattle Mountaineer pamphlets that showed us the ideas others have had. Now, of course, there is a plethora of climbing gear (much of it unrecognizable to me) that the average person could never hope to replicate. For all I know there is a publication somewhere that gives us something similar for kayaking. Or Rob might consider doing something with his ideas. :) Craig Jungers Royal City, WA On 10/16/06, rcgibbert_at_aol.com <rcgibbert_at_aol.com> wrote: > > I backchanneled Steve Hotzmann on this subject but want to add to what > Scott has said a little more publically. Namely, the retail price of > components is often higher than the finished product you want to buy. Let > alone the hours you spend making it. > > However, if you know what you are doing you might end up with something > better than the store bought thing. In my gear closet I have a box called > the *box of formerly good ideas*. It is now a reservoir for spare parts, but > it also contains all my things I've made, torn apart, jettisoned, etc. Much > of that was towing based. > > After years of towing for real or practice I made what I thought was a > great tow rig. Problem was, I put a low bid cam lok on the belt and it came > undone accidentally a couple of times. I put a new one on it and it is now a > great rig. The retail price of components and the 3-4 hours I put into it > make it equal to the price of a Northwater Seatec or similar rig but I like > mine way better. It took years to *get* towing though, to make the changes > that I like. Me, I 'd go store bought until you can tell what makes a good > tow rig from experience. > > YMMV, > > Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have had a carabiner on a commercial tow belt catch (hook securely) on my padded seat back connections, while practicing a paddle float reentry. It took a minute or two to get it free, and I was very glad this was only a practice in calm conditions. Of course, after thinking about it for a day, I realized I could have pulled the quick release on the belt and I would not have been trapped any longer. In real conditions this slow thought process would have been too late. I'll check for the stainless steel clip Jim et al. mentions next time I'm at West Marine. I have definitely been looking for an alternative to the carabiners. Pam Washington State *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Pamvetdr_at_aol.com wrote: > I have had a carabiner on a commercial tow belt catch (hook securely) on my > padded seat back connections, while practicing a paddle float reentry. IMNSHO, the 'biner should not be out in the open. It should be in some kind of pocket so it can't catch accidentally. Some of the commercially available tow kits come with a little pocket that can attach to the PFD. My old WW PFD had a quick release clip for the 'biner and I didn't like the fact that it left the thing in the open. Some recent SK PFDs have similar pigtail clips. I stuff mine in a zippered pocket and leave the zipper open just enough to allow the webbing to exit. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think one of the nicest kayak tow rigs I've seen was one that had been added to the kayak. Essentially, a sailing cleat had been added to the rear deck. The cleat was in easy reaching distance from the tow paddler. There was also an extra "eye" that was a little farther back on the kayak. This centers the place where the actual towing forces occur. To this you could add a basic storebought towing kit (bag, rope, caribeener, etc). Has anyone else made a variation of this? Any thoughts? Useful suggestions? --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: > I think one of the nicest kayak tow rigs I've seen was > one that had been added to the kayak. Essentially, a > sailing cleat had been added to the rear deck. The > cleat was in easy reaching distance from the tow > paddler. There was also an extra "eye" that was a > little farther back on the kayak. This centers the > place where the actual towing forces occur. This was a standard once associated with NDK - they sold a kit to add to your kayak that included all the bits needed. The photo on KayakWiki is my old (sold a few years ago) Solstice. <http://kayakwiki.org/index.php/Towing_and_safety_rigging> The major complaint with this rig is that the tow line ends up low and sweeps the rear deck of the tower's kayak, snagging anything on it. A PFD tow belt keeps the tow line a tad higher. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply including old headers and footers. It's list policy.... this post was modified to meet policy] Derek wrote: >I think one of the nicest kayak tow rigs I've seen was >one that had been added to the kayak. Essentially, a >sailing cleat had been added to the rear deck. I did a similar rig on my Romany Explorer. Placed a jam cleat near the right rear of the combing where it was easy to reach and the extra eye centered over the space of the day hatch. As you described used a commercial (Lotus brand) bag, rope and carbiner. Would thread the rope through the eye and into the jam cleat, then set the bag under bungees - usually running it around to the front deck. Worked well. Only drawback, common to tows that fasten to the boat rather than the paddler, is that its harder to hand off the tow to someone who doesn't have their own rig. Keith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Worked well. Only drawback, common to tows that > fasten to the boat > rather than the paddler, is that its harder to hand > off the tow to > someone who doesn't have their own rig. This is a reasonable concern. Perhaps it could be overcome by the way its rigged. I would think that to hand-off you could tie a quick loop in the tow boat end of the rope. Someone could then clip the tow line onto their own pig tail. Are there any better alternatives then the simple "eye" to put the tow rope through? Something that would allow a pre-tied bowline to go through? Derek *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/18/2006 3:54:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, kattenbo_at_comcast.net writes: I did a similar rig on my Romany Explorer. Placed a jam cleat near the right rear of the combing where it was easy to reach and the extra eye centered over the space of the day hatch. As you described used a commercial (Lotus brand) bag, rope and carbiner. Would thread the rope through the eye and into the jam cleat, then set the bag under bungees - usually running it around to the front deck. Worked well. Only drawback, common to tows that fasten to the boat rather than the paddler, is that its harder to hand off the tow to someone who doesn't have their own rig. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the advantages to having the jam cleat and fairlead on your rear deck is that if someone forgets their towline you can hand off your waist tow to them and use your deck mounted tow. If you want people to learn about towing, you can be better prepared to proselytize with handing them a tow rig and using a deck mounted one. I do always have my deck bag in my kit just in case and once in a while it gets taken on the water. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> One of the advantages to having the jam cleat and fairlead on your rear deck > is that if someone forgets their towline you can hand off your waist tow to > them and use your deck mounted tow. If you want people to learn about towing, > you can be better prepared to proselytize with handing them a tow rig and > using a deck mounted one. I do always have my deck bag in my kit just in case > and once in a while it gets taken on the water. Whenever I paddle on a multi-day trip it's a given that everyone in the group has some kind of personal towing system otherwise they aren't coming! Mine is on my boat with a cleat and towing eye. It doesn't catch stuff on the back deck because I don't pile stuff on my back deck. People not in their own boats use some kind of waist / pfd system, what I've seen of these they can be very fatiguing over any period of time. However - after many years of paddling mostly multi-day trips I've never yet had to use one for real! www.flickr.com/photos/fachwen/sets/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tuesday 17 October 2006 14:27, Mike wrote: > I've always associated ice climbing with > water, in spite of the climbing mags showing > crisp cold air and bright blue skies above towering > spires of ice. To me any kind of climbing is a very wet undertaking, including the ice climbing, that my friends enjoy so much! Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/17/2006 11:13:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, mikedaly_at_magma.ca writes: IMNSHO, the 'biner should not be out in the open. It should be in some kind of pocket so it can't catch accidentally. Some of the commercially available tow kits come with a little pocket that can attach to the PFD. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On my waist tow rig I have a D ring sewn onto the belt. It is for my snaphook to attach to for quick deployment. The length of the line between the float and the D ring is set to keep the float in the bag and the snaphook on the D ring and the line taut, so as no entangling issues. On my PFD I have a split D ring that I use whenever I have the suspicion I'll be towing soon. The snaphook is drawn further out of the bag and it gets attached to the split D ring. The split D ring breaks open faster for attaching and I don't have to waist manual dexterity (and time)on retrieving a snaphook for use on a friend in need. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: > On my waist tow rig I have a D ring sewn onto the belt. If it's sewn in, does it still release the tow line if you need it to? Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/17/2006 8:20:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, crjungers_at_gmail.com writes: For all I know there is a publication somewhere that gives us something similar for kayaking. Or Rob might consider doing something with his ideas. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a very useful discussion on towing, towlines, here: _http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/towlines_files/art_towlines.htm_ (http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/towlines_files/art_towlines.htm) Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/18/2006 9:51:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, mikedaly_at_magma.ca writes: If it's sewn in, does it still release the tow line if you need it to? Yes, the snaphook just clips onto it so that it is out and accessible, but still connected to something. It is faster than opening up the bag and digging through it to find the snaphook. The float is positioned underneath the velco'd bag opening with enough tension to keep the line from playing out, but a swift yank will undo that. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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