Dave said: I go along with a law demanding kids wear PFDs: they are not capable of making risk vs benefit decisions. Adults are. We should decide, in the ------------------- Thanks Dave. That is all I was asking. Does this freedom thing extend to the right to risk the lives of defenseless kids? Let's ban fences around swimming pools. I said earlier, it only takes 20 seconds to drown a kid. I also noted earlier that this is clearly a shoot the messenger topic. That second sentence in my original post is clearly invisible to some of you. You are wasting your ammunition blasting away at me. I conclude you just prefer to remain ignorant of what the law makers are doing! Dream worlds are blissful places. Chuck Sutherland *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I find Craig's response to my post about kids and PFDs to be utterly breathtaking. The folks proposing the regs in PA from the Fish and Boat Commission are the people counting the bodies and fishing them off the bottom, not a bunch of ignorant politicians. Chuck Sutherland ---------------------------------- > But about Kids! Two states still do not require children to wear pfds. > Twice in the past two years fathers have gone fishing with a son > that has fallen overboard. In both cases, the fathers jumped in to > save their sons and in both cases father and son went to the > bottom. Tell me that it is ok for fathers to take their sons to the > bottom with them because we must preserve our god given freedom > of choice no matter who pays the price! It's a tragedy that people are stupid. It's a tragedy that they kill their kids (and themselves) through their stupidity. But tens of thousands of men and women have given their lives to preserve a freedom that should not go down the drain to the rafrain of, "if we can save just one life it will be worh it." How far do we go down this road before their sacrifice is in vain? If we are to save just one more life (innocent or not) where will we stop? Take this to the logical end. Will we require a daily permit in order to boat? Will we make everyone launch at "approved" ramps where all gear is inspected? Will we require "credentials" from everyone on the water that attest to their passing one course or another? Don't all these look like "paper solutions" to you? I'm sure they all look like good PR to a any number of politicians. Just how far are we willing to go in order to save just one more life? A bunch of us think we've gone far enough. Craig Jungers Radical again in Royal City *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:44:21 4, skimmer <skimmer_at_enter.net> wrote: > > I find Craig's response to my post about kids and PFDs to be > utterly breathtaking. The folks proposing the regs in PA from the > Fish and Boat Commission are the people counting the bodies and > fishing them off the bottom, not a bunch of ignorant politicians. > > This is why the regulators just keep on going. When I asked you just how far you would be willing to carry this you are left breathless by my reply. But you didn't say just how far you'd be willing to take it. The regulators win on these issues because it's so easy to paint a label on anyone who disagrees. No one wants to be portrayed as willing to stand by while innocent children are wantonly killed by their own parents. Especially when the means for saving them is so simple: everyone wears a PFD all the time. But I don't want to wear a PFD all the time. How will making me wear a PFD all the time save kids' lives? And trust me... I don't much care about the adults. That Fish and Boat Commission of yours doesn't look like an elected body to me. I'm guessing they are bureaucrats and expanding their domain and power probably seems like a good idea to them. Especially if they can claim that if it saves just one life it will be worth it. And I can assure you that even if they passed a law banning every child under 18 from every boat it would not save enough lives to keep them from taking yet another step. There is always just one more life to save. Passing laws against things is not the answer. If you don't believe me just look at the "war on drugs" - which is where the "save just one life it will be worth it" came from - and how well that has gone. Making everyone wear a PFD all the time will work just as well. I have a house on a lake and I watch people boat past with kids not wearing a PFD every day during the summer. And this in a state which requires them on kids under 12 on every vessel that's underway (and I have no issue with that). Our kids wore their PFDs on deck every day of their lives for 5 years while we cruised throughout the Pacific. But I didn't. I wore a harness every nightwatch and so did my wife. But not a PFD. If one of us fell overboard we would rather have been tied to the boat than floating safe as it sailed away. And a PFD adds a lot of drag at 4 knots. If you want to do some good then come over next summer and spend some time telling those adults to put PFDs on their kids. I'd like to watch a bit of that. But at least you'd be talking to the right people. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Oct 16, 2006, at 11:40 AM, skimmer wrote: > I find Craig's response to my post about kids and PFDs to be > utterly breathtaking. The folks proposing the regs in PA from the > Fish and Boat Commission are the people counting the bodies and > fishing them off the bottom, not a bunch of ignorant politicians. Years ago a friend of mine died in a kayak that I had built him and left a wife and 2 children. It was a daylong paddle and he was within 100 yards of finishing. It was a tragedy and made kayaking very un- fun for many years for me. My father just happened to come upon a friend of his who had just flipped his small fishing boat. In going over the anchor line rapped around his leg and was pulling him down. He rescued him just in time. By the time they got to shore the Harbor Patrol had been called and were there. They told them that they never once have pulled someone up from the bottom who was wearing a PFD. The funny thing about this thread is that almost everyone says that they personally always wear a PFD but they don't want to be TOLD to wear a PFD. This seems to be a common American attitude, but it also sounds like a spoiled child's tantrum. Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 10/16/06, Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com> wrote: > > > The funny thing about this thread is that almost everyone says that > they personally always wear a PFD but they don't want to be TOLD to > wear a PFD. This seems to be a common American attitude, but it also > sounds like a spoiled child's tantrum. > > Many Americans of a certain age (ahem!) grew up in an era of almost complete freedom. Free not to wear seatbelts (or even have them in your car), free not to wear a bicycle helmet, free to fish, hunt, and hike on most government-owned land, free to pretty much do whatever we wanted as long as it wasn't infringing upon someone else. Even most of our campsites were free to use. Insurance companies were the first to encroach upon this freedom but it rapidly became part of the legal agenda (pushed along by insurance company lobbiests) for various jurisdictions. It has reached the point where, for someone who was born in the USA in the 1940s, the life one grew up with is now constrained on all sides by rules and fees which don't immediately appear to offer a benefit to society but rather a benefit to some corporations and individuals. We naturally bridle at being forced to do something that only creates a profit for the company that lobbied for that rule. Most of the rest of the world grew up under a different set of rules. So while it might look like a tantrum to someone from another culture, to us it's justifiable anger. Taking away something that has been considered a "right" will always engender anger, I think. Right now, to a lot of us, it looks like a great deal of what we grew up to enjoy will not be enjoyed by our children and grandchildren. And the 'risk-taking' personality that America has long been known for might be lost in the trade. Wars have been fought over less. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: >Insurance companies were the first to encroach upon this freedom but it >rapidly became part of the legal agenda (pushed along by insurance company >lobbiests) for various jurisdictions. > And it may all be for naught, afterall.... Study: Airbags, antilock brakes not likely to reduce accidents, injuries http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/2006/060927ManneringOffset.html The behavior responsible for this seeming paradox is called the offset hypothesis, which predicts that consumers adapt to innovations meant to improve safety by becoming less vigilant about safety, said Fred Mannering <https://engineering.purdue.edu/CE/People/view_person?group_id=1920&resource_id=2089>, a professor of civil engineering at Purdue University. (I know this isn't kayaking but it's relative to a favorite topic here) Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie Myers wrote: > Study: Airbags, antilock brakes not likely to reduce accidents, injuries What scares me is the potential result of the next generation of devices - smart cruise control (now in high end cars like Mercedes), lane tracking and limited automatic steering etc. Some of these things are being held back until the car maker's lobbyists can convince Congress to enact legislation that removes liability from the auto maker if the device results in an accident. I'm waiting to hear of an accident lawsuit as a result of someone screwing up because they didn't understand what "electronic stability control" means! Kayaking analogy - the many paddlers I meet who use GPS instead of map and compass and keep getting lost! The best technology in the hands of an idiot doesn't help anyone. We could try outlawing idiocy, but then where would we get politicians? Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig Jungers wrote: > It has reached the point where, for someone who was born in the USA > in the 1940s, the life one grew up with is now constrained on all sides > by rules and fees which don't immediately appear to offer a benefit > to society [...] Let me add as someone born in the 1940s that there are now twice as many Americans as when I was a kid, and that crowding inevitably changes society, not usually for the better. You can't paddle the same river twice. I'm not sure how this applies to wearing PFDs, but it sure applies to a lot of other rule-making. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/17/2006 12:13:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, tord_at_tord.nu writes: Better arguement for PFDs is hard to find: Your loved ones have a bigger chance to retrieve your body, if you should die while paddling! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tord, I'm not a real Viking, but I want a modified Viking funeral when I die. Having a PFD may make my body recoverable, but in the end it's all the same, a watery grave. Perhaps the minimalist in me is more than the Viking wannabe. All the best, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
tord_at_tord.nu writes: > Better arguement for PFDs is hard to find: Your loved ones have a > bigger chance to retrieve your body, if you should die while paddling! Plus, the life insurance settlement is quicker if there is a corpus. [Might as well enjoy this gallows humor. It is a peculiar kind of joy, but common to seafarers. BTW, commercial fishers locally _never_ wear PFD's when working on deck because it is not "manly," they say. In fact, when someone goes out in the middle of the night to pee over the rail, and dons a PFD, the others are wary of suicide, the donning of the PFD being so unusual. Probably save a couple lives every year if they all did wear PFD's when working the deck ... and a strobe or at least a light.] -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig wrote: >>>>>Many Americans of a certain age (ahem!) grew up in an era of almost complete freedom. Free not to wear seatbelts (or even have them in your car), free not to wear a bicycle helmet, free to fish, hunt, and hike on most government-owned land, free to pretty much do whatever we wanted as long as it wasn't infringing upon someone else. Even most of our campsites were free to use.<<<<<And all the rest> Wasn't it great! Thanks for spelling it out so well for those who never knew that freedom. It depresses me and pisses me off every time I run into another new limitation on a freedom (or fee free experience) I once enjoyed. Someone mentioned the advantages of having a PFD on in case one is bashed on rocks in surf. Tsunami Ranger, Eric Soares used to say they were dangerous because they didn't allow one to dive down under the breakers so as not to get picked up by the breaker (a surface phenomena) and smashed into the rocks. While I always wear a PFD when kayaking these days I do not want to have it be a requirement. If I take up racing again I'd like to not wear it. Two reasons: overheating and because my nipples are still hypersensitive to friction ever since I raced with a (required) PFD with no undershirt under it about 20 years ago. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/17/2006 5:08:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, paul_at_paddleandoar.com writes: The funny thing about this thread is that almost everyone says that they personally always wear a PFD but they don't want to be TOLD to wear a PFD. This seems to be a common American attitude, but it also sounds like a spoiled child's tantrum. No, it's not my nationality, rather, it's my ability to discriminate when my needs will be met with a PFD, or not. I'd rather not be dummed down by people who cannot. As far as analogies, automobiles and fishing boats make bad ones so lets stick to kayaking and PFD use, it makes the arguments for or against so much more relevant. Whenenever someone brings up a story about a fisherman falling over the side my eyes glaze over. What does that have to do with kayaking? Do you want all kayakers to be lumped together with fishermen? Do you want the authorities to lump together kayakers and fishermen when they decide for you? When I paddled a tropical environment I rationalized that my PFD was more likely to contribute to heat stroke than it would be there for me in the event of a failed roll, failed reentry and roll, failed group cohesion making an assisted recovery possible. We did not want inflatables as the cartridges cannot be flown and are 20-25 dollars to replace. Besides, you have to be conscious to inflate an air vest. Rather than relying on dogma or the Nannystate, I used my brain, made a decision and enjoyed my trip. By the way, what PFD's are these folks wearing? (scroll down) _http://www.surfskiworldcup.com/_ (http://www.surfskiworldcup.com/) All the best, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: >>As far as analogies, automobiles and fishing boats make bad ones >>so lets stick to kayaking and PFD use, it makes the arguments for or against >>so much more relevant. >> > > For some here, the primary argument is about achieving safety through technology. Because there are more fishermen and people driving cars than there are sea kayakers, there are more studies/statistics regarding "safety through technological advances" on those activities (credit to Insurance and politicians). Therefore, the concept (or misconception) of "more-safe-through-more-technology" in other activities does relate because it covers the _psychology_ of safety. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/18/2006 7:21:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, jackie_at_muddypuppies.com writes: For some here, the primary argument is about achieving safety through technology. Because there are more fishermen and people driving cars than there are sea kayakers, there are more studies/statistics regarding "safety through technological advances" on those activities (credit to Insurance and politicians). Therefore, the concept (or misconception) of "more-safe-through-more-technology" in other activities does relate because it covers the _psychology_ of safety. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I beg to differ. Kayaking has no relations to automobiles or fishing from a mororized dory. Even the connection of safety through technology should be restricted to kayaking. There is enough evidence in the kayaking realm of things to make your point without bringing in highways full of non-sequiters. I don't care about Turkish cab drivers in Berlin who just got anti lock brakes. Do any of them paddle? Lets ask those guys about more laws for a safer, accident free society. Cheers, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I recently finished reading "Deep Trouble." Several of the scenarios had "inadequate equipment" issues. In many cases, technology such as signaling devices, flotation, and cold weather clothing would have reduced the severity of this situation significantly. Does the person who goes out kayaking with nothing more than a paddle and a pair of shorts and a cotton t-shirt have a techno-phoboa or are they just plain foolish? What is the impact of technologies such as "breathable fabrics" like Tropos and Gortex? One could argue that these fabrics have made risky behaviour safer. One could also argue that they have made it safer to go places that one has no business being to begin with. Thoughts? Derek --- Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/18/2006 7:21:20 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > jackie_at_muddypuppies.com writes: > > For some here, the primary argument is about > achieving safety through > technology. Because there are more fishermen and > people driving cars than there > are sea kayakers, there are more studies/statistics > regarding "safety through > technological advances" on those activities (credit > to Insurance and > politicians). Therefore, the concept (or > misconception) of > "more-safe-through-more-technology" in other > activities does relate because it covers the > _psychology_ > of safety. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > I beg to differ. Kayaking has no relations to > automobiles or fishing from a > mororized dory. Even the connection of safety > through technology should be > restricted to kayaking. There is enough evidence in > the kayaking realm of things > to make your point without bringing in highways > full of non-sequiters. I > don't care about Turkish cab drivers in Berlin who > just got anti lock brakes. Do > any of them paddle? Lets ask those guys about more > laws for a safer, > accident free society. > > Cheers, > > Rob G > --------------------------------------------------------------- Please limit all email attachments sent to this address to a maximum of 0.5MB. All email attachments that are larger then 0.5MB will automatically be deleted. --------------------------------------------------------------- ICQ: 262152266, AIM: GlamourpetsD, MSN: [my email address], Yahoo Messenger: glamourpets --------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Derek wrote: > I recently finished reading "Deep Trouble." Several of the scenarios > had "inadequate equipment" issues. In many cases, technology such as > signaling devices, flotation, and cold weather clothing would have > reduced the severity of this situation significantly. Does the person > who goes out kayaking with nothing more than a paddle and a pair of > shorts and a cotton t-shirt have a techno-phoboa or are they just plain > foolish? Mostly foolish, with a good admixture of plain old ignorance. Matt Broze wrote many (most?) of those accounts. I bet he can give a very cogent answer. > What is the impact of technologies such as "breathable fabrics" like > Tropos and Gortex? One could argue that these fabrics have made risky > behaviour safer. One could also argue that they have made it safer to > go places that one has no business being to begin with. Thoughts? I think nil, considering that either a breathable- or nonbreathable-top will do the job. It is not the breathability that leads people on to deeds over their heads, it is that foolish thing, and inexperience, I think. Some of the people I paddle with refuse to wear immersion protection clothing, and have very marginal bracing and recovery skills. It makes for some powerful restrictions on where I am comfortable paddling with them. If they were not dear friends, I'd forgo paddling with them entirely. Derek, I had two scary incidents last season (2005; shoulder has kept me off the water since June), summarized here before you subscribed. I can send them to you back channel if you like. Deep Trouble is everywhere, and easy to find. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>Does the person who goes out kayaking with nothing more than a paddle and a pair of shorts and a cotton t-shirt have a techno-phoboa or are they just plain foolish? I think one of the attractions of kayaking, at least for me, is it's simplicity. I guess you could call it a "techno-phobia" it you wanted to, although I would never call it that. I grew up preferring body surfing to board surfing. I also shoot a recurve bow and black powder. I like camping over staying in a hotel. And when the conditions permit I enjoy paddling with little more then a paddle and a bathing suit. I guess I just lean more towards the more basic things in life. But that's just me. Someone who goes out in a cotton t-shirt is probably an accident looking for a place to happen, because they obviously don't know what they're doing. >>What is the impact of technologies such as "breathable fabrics" like Tropos and Gortex? One could argue that these fabrics have made risky behaviour safer. One could also argue that they have made it safer to go places that one has no business being to begin with. Thoughts? I could certainly argue that they have made things more expensive! Have these materials made risky behavior safer? I don't think so. The risk is the same, although the comfort level may be a bit improved. Besides, I don't believe there are any places where we have no business being. Some destinations are just a bit more challenging then others. Heck, if it were easy then everybody would do it :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 10/19/06, Derek <glamourpets_at_yahoo.com> wrote: > > <snip> > Does the person who goes out kayaking with nothing > more than a paddle and a pair of shorts and a cotton > t-shirt have a techno-phoboa or are they just plain > foolish? > <snip> I think it depends, in large part, just where they are kayaking. I can paddle on Moses Lake in front of my lake house every day from May through September in a t-shirt and cutoff shorts and the major risk to my life is being run down by an inattentive powerboater. There aren't many techno-gizmos that are going to change that barring proximity radar. The thrust of my argument has been that equipment and clothing (and a PFD) can be appropriate to the circumstances; it's really not in society's best interests to waste time regulating them for adults. That, of course, is based on the theory that the regulations are for safety. It's my humble opinion that most regulations are based on a combination of poorly-thought-out revenue predictions, bureaucratic power struggles, and full employment for obscure relatives. There is no reason to require a PFD on me when I am paddling on Moses Lake in June and I'm not pleased that the idea is being broached. Let the Sheriff's patrol boat go after drunken speedboaters and jetskiers where there is risk to innocent second and third parties. However the 5-year-old girl across the street who occasionally convinces me to let her paddle one of the w/w boats wears a PFD every time. I don't ever want to explain to her mom anything worse than how well she did and how much fun we had. Of course, she grew up using my w/w boats as playthings (I store them in the dining room) and learned to walk holding on to them and used the cockpits as entrances to a cave only a toddler could enter. Craig Jungers When 20-something mothers think "party" they think of me first... for babysitting. :P *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/19/2006 4:29:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, glamourpets_at_yahoo.com writes: Does the person who goes out kayaking with nothing more than a paddle and a pair of shorts and a cotton t-shirt have a techno-phoboa or are they just plain foolish? ??????????????????????????????????????????????? It depends where you paddle. The aforementioned attire is entirely appropriate in Florida or Brazil and most places in between. I know whitewater paddlers who wear a pair of shorts and a drytop certain times of the year. Some of them are pretty good, too. Me, I dress for the conditions and my ability to handle them. Cheers, Rob G Oh, you get what you pay for. I know, it's another dogma, but cheaper knockoffs have been trying to unseat Goretex for years. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sunday 22 October 2006 04:10, Dave wrote: >Deep Trouble is everywhere, and easy to find. Aye, very true! And trouble happens when you least expect it: While travelling on an international ferry between the UK and the mainland Europe,some arsonist had a field day - I got away almost scot free, just some smoke in my lungs, but others were not that fortunate. RIP. Some years later the same murderous Norwegian set fire to another ferry, killing 53, including himself (he was the only one who were on both passenger lists, and it was found out later that he had a history of arsons, so the case seems closed, and hopefully he rots in Hell). Back to 'my' boat: The crew valiantly battled the fire on our ferry, for hours, but ran soon out of air for the firefighters. A West German destroyer and firefighting boats from the Ekofisk oil field delivered hundreds fresh tubes to our ship, but as most of the firefighting crew had earlier during the night worked as waiters, pursers and engineers, they where eventually at their whits end, when a German firefighting crew boarded us, and within 5-10 minutes had the fire under control. So the ship's forward accomodation was on fire for about 10 hours! During all this we passengers had been herded onto the rear deck, and happily it was a very calm night! Some more or less nude, and none properly dressed - a few with life vests on which gave some warmth. The first ship that ran to our assistance was a huge Soviet tanker, which stayed with us, during the entire episode, if our ship had to be evacuated. Happily just a handful smoke victims and heart patients had to be airlifted off. On the return trip there was a gale blowing and just a handful were able to stand up at all, and even fewer ate anything. Had the arsonist struck then we'd all be dead, for you couldn't even get out on the deck, due to the heavy seas that engulfed the ship again and again, and the fire had been even harder to put out, due to the rolling, stamping and hurricane-like winds! I am in no way seasickness-proof, but I thoroughly enjoyed that trip, sat in the top bar with the only other guy around, a chief from another ferry line (STENA) and had a few drinks, while we swapped stories :-)! Eventually I retired to my shared cabin, which reeked of the others' puke, but I was too tired to mind much! Have a safe journey all, Tord *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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