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From: <gypsy_trillium_at_yahoo.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] PaddleWise V1 #3441
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:06:21 -0700
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
Subject: [Paddlewise] Innovations in sea kayak designs

I've been mulling over the thread that rotated around the video "a
conversation with Derek Hutchinson" and some of the comments. Derek
Hutchinson has said that he thinks design innovation in sea kayaking is
moribund, if not dead, and this got me to thinking... clip
 
I find this exciting and the trend towards customizing a boat for purpose
and size exciting... clip

Your comments and ideas are encouraged.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA

Hi Craig,
 
You've shared some excellent thoughts here... Off the shelf kayaks, fit off
the shelf paddlers. This isn't intended as a dirogatory or snide comment. The
majority of body shapes fit into the normal range of kayaks, mass-produced to
keep the price competitive. Doubtful that the huge fleet of kayaks sold every
spring; that hide behind garden sheds, or are tucked discretely into car-ports
see the extended range of paddling conditions that some (the minority?)
prefer. 
 
In the minority are people like myself - built 'funny' and needing a special
kayak - fit and function over pedigree. I had to go well outside 'the norm' to
find my ideal paddle in a sea-kayak. I don't see enough of a niche market
developing in the sea-kayaking world to convince the very big business of
kayak production to custom build kayaks, one at a time. Proper
padding-out/customizing/cockpit fittting by/for the end-user however,
is rarely emphasized by kayak dealers. Probably because they've found it
unprofitable. I don't understand this because it can make a HUGE difference in
the way a kayak and paddler work together. I do understand how tough it is to
run a successful business in the shark tank. Decisions need to be about
profit, not service.
 
Good to see that some dealers out there are willing to put the time into what
can be a difficult, time consuming, and highly personal and
subjective process. I wish them the best, I really do, but I can't see the
majority who are supporting this industry, and who are experts at getting the
best price, spending the coin.
 
It's a shame as a properly fitted 'bad design' will outperform a sloppy
fitting 'good design' every time...
 
...about innovations.
 
I think it's about time we start looking back at the roots of our sport for
'improvements' in hull design. Storm-hungry multi-chined Aleutian Baidarkas,
low profile East and South Greenland speed machines, flat-bottomed West
Greenland playboats. The kayak has developed too far from it's intended use to
address a consumer perceived flaw in it's design. Seems every design I see on
the tops of cars these days, takes our beloved, and
occasionally (delightfully) wet kayaks, and tries to make them into little
'Queen Mary's. The trade promotes this as an improvement over primitive
designs, and if I was standing in a shop making comparisons, the slew of bad
'recreational' designs would seem to support this.
 
Personally I'd like to see more folks starting in simpler, longer, narrower
kayaks, with lower decks, that have been fitted, and fit them
properly. Paddling a barge just ain't fun... and fun is what it's all about.
 
~~daniel~
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From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Innovations in sea kayak designs
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:48:47 -0400
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:31:57 -0700 (PDT), gypsy_trillium_at_yahoo.ca said:
> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 09:06:21 -0700
> From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
> Subject: [Paddlewise] Innovations in sea kayak designs
> 
> I've been mulling over the thread that rotated around the video "a
> conversation with Derek Hutchinson" and some of the comments. Derek
> Hutchinson has said that he thinks design innovation in sea kayaking is
> moribund, if not dead, and this got me to thinking... clip
  
> ...about innovations.
>  
> I think it's about time we start looking back at the roots of our sport for
> 'improvements' in hull design. Storm-hungry multi-chined Aleutian Baidarkas,
> low profile East and South Greenland speed machines, flat-bottomed West
> Greenland playboats. The kayak has developed too far from it's intended use to
> address a consumer perceived flaw in it's design. Seems every design I see on
> the tops of cars these days, takes our beloved, and
> occasionally (delightfully) wet kayaks, and tries to make them into little
> 'Queen Mary's. The trade promotes this as an improvement over primitive
> designs, and if I was standing in a shop making comparisons, the slew of
> bad 'recreational' designs would seem to support this.

Having spent a few years playing with skin boats.  I'm not convinced the
current boats have reached the performance capabilities of the old
designs.  

The baidarka being the design which I think has higher performance
potential.   Greenland boats are great for rolling and playing, but if
you want to go somewhere, I'll take a baidarka.

I spent some time with a fellow skin boat paddler/builder this past
weekend.

We both think a skin/frame boat may be faster than a rigid kayak - of
any design.

With the baidarka there's a whole lot to the shape of the stern. 

As a surf ski paddler I find the stern of most surf ski's primitive in
comparison to the stern of a well built baidarka.  I've paddled a nicely
shaped 16' baidarka which doesn't squat when sprinted.  I can't think of
a 16' regular kayak which didn't squat if you sprint it - assuming you
could actually sprint the boat...

> Personally I'd like to see more folks starting in simpler, longer, narrower
> kayaks, with lower decks, that have been fitted, and fit them
> properly. 

I couldn't agree more.  Simple well fitted boats to start with.  Adding
the requirement that you need to be able to solo the boat on and off the
car.  There's no point in having a boat that's too heavy to single hand
load/unload.

Kirk

-- 
  Kirk Olsen
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