PaddleWise by thread

From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:00:41 -0700
Is California being pounded by larger than usual surf? Is Mark Sanders
still in one piece? Reports have been disturbing.

-- 
Bradford R. Crain
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 19:20:45 -0700
You're safe as long as you stay off the surf skis!

http://youtu.be/XWwW5_3jbJ8



On 9/2/2011 7:00 PM, Bradford R. Crain wrote:
> Is California being pounded by larger than usual surf? Is Mark Sanders
> still in one piece? Reports have been disturbing.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 19:31:08 -0700
I was going to make some smart-ass comment but all I can think of right now
is, "Holy crap!!!"

Craig

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote:

> You're safe as long as you stay off the surf skis!
>
> http://youtu.be/XWwW5_3jbJ8
>
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2011 7:00 PM, Bradford R. Crain wrote:
>
>> Is California being pounded by larger than usual surf? Is Mark Sanders
>> still in one piece? Reports have been disturbing.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 20:29:26 -0700
I would try that if I had terminal cancer, and it was my last day on planet
earth. On second thought, I would just stay home and listen to The Band Perry.

-- 
Bradford R. Crain

Quoting Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>:

> I was going to make some smart-ass comment but all I can think of right now
> is, "Holy crap!!!"
>
> Craig
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Mark Sanders  
> <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>wrote:
>
>> You're safe as long as you stay off the surf skis!
>>
>> http://youtu.be/XWwW5_3jbJ8
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2011 7:00 PM, Bradford R. Crain wrote:
>>
>>> Is California being pounded by larger than usual surf? Is Mark Sanders
>>> still in one piece? Reports have been disturbing.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2011 21:04:11 -0700
Jeez... it scared me just watching the video!!!

On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Bradford R. Crain <crainb_at_pdx.edu> wrote:

> I would try that if I had terminal cancer, and it was my last day on planet
> earth. On second thought, I would just stay home and listen to The Band
> Perry.
>
> --
> Bradford R. Crain
>
>
> Quoting Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>:
>
>  I was going to make some smart-ass comment but all I can think of right
>> now
>> is, "Holy crap!!!"
>>
>> Craig
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 11:52:32 -0700
Hi Mark,

On Friday, September 02, 2011, at 7:20:45 PM PST, you wrote:

> You're safe as long as you stay off the surf skis!

> http://youtu.be/XWwW5_3jbJ8

Wow, brings back fond memories! :)

When I lived in L.A. many years ago, one of my favorite activities was
bodysurfing at The Wedge (always with aprh Wedge at Balboa Saloon! :)).

This was all long before I discovered paddling.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 12:08:17 -0700
Hi,

On Saturday, September 03, 2011, at 11:52:32 AM PST, I wrote:

> (always with aprh Wedge at Balboa Saloon! :)).

Strange.  What showed up here as "aprh" isn't what I wrote.  I did
type "aprhs", but something peculiar happened along the way.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 15:10:21 -0400
Expand this video to full size before starting it, it's much better than
the youtube versions which are circulating.  The surf ski going over the
wave is in the first video sequence, and if you don't expand it to full
size you miss out.   The paddler has a nice comfortable angle for
getting over the break.

The following was posted to the surf ski mailing list and includes
comments by Rich Sprout, the guy in the surf ski which is going over the
wave.


To: "surfski group" <surfski_at_yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 04:23:13 -0700
Subject: Re: [surfski] Re: Interesting surfski picture at the Wedge in
Newport Beach

Here is better video:

http://vimeo.com/28541229

That must have been one of the best waves of the entire swell at the
Wedge.

My opinion on this incident: that was one of the coolest things I've
ever
seen. An exceptional Wedge peak with a surfski paddler closest to it.
Rich
got over it and made it look easy.

Maybe someday someone will be facing the other direction on such a wave.

Would you sacrifice a ski for everlasting glory?

BTW Rich, is there a reason you chose your Elite over a spec ski that
day?

On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 1:56 PM, ZZZ wrote:

> **
>
>
> My name is Rich Sprout
>
> I am the paddler in the "fake" pic at the wedge.
> There were 250 people standing on the beach watching and filming the waves,
> there is more than one photo out there. There is also a video of it on
> youtube.
>
> I was a lifeguard for 10 years, 5 in Newport Beach and 5 years and in South
> Africa.
> I paddle in the harbor and ocean nearly every day, sometimes twice a day.
> I am on the USA national Sprint Kayak team, I am a waterman and an
> accomplished swimmer and surfer. I knew exactly what I was doing. I am not
> stupid or crazy or on drugs. I train hard, I am confident, experienced and I
> trust my equipment (fenn elite ski and jantex gamma paddle) oh yes, and I
> have BALLS. I was having a great time, I was not scared nor did I endanger
> myself or anyone else.
>
> This wasn't an isolated incident. There is a small crew of guys here in
> SoCal that paddle out and catch big waves every time there is a swell. This
> is just the first time someone has filmed it and let you see. There are guys
> in South Africa and Australia that do it too. I go to Hawaii twice a year
> and surf massive waves on my ski with some friends that live on the north
> shore of Kauai. The break we surf is about 2km out to sea so nobody sees or
> films it. We dont care that nobody takes photos because we do it for fun not
> recognition.
>
> You can do so much more with a surfski than just paddle in a inlet or
> harbor, just be smart about it.
>
> Anyone with any questions can please feel free to call me on cell 

< snip > 

>
> Regards
>
> Rich Sprout
>
>
> --- In surfski_at_yahoogroups.com, S1_at_... wrote:
> >
> > RE/
> > >you have some catching up to do. That's Rich Sprout from So Cal and
> > >member of the US Kayak sprint team. See the video:

-- 
  Kirk Olsen
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 14:22:48 -0700
I like the YouTube version better, because it shows the ski coming in 
earlier. Also, it has the classic, Cailifornia 'surfer dude' commentary!!
So, Kirk, should we give you a call the next time the Wedge picks up?

Mark

On 9/5/2011 12:10 PM, Kirk Olsen wrote:
> Expand this video to full size before starting it, it's much better than
> the youtube versions which are circulating.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Kirk Olsen <kork4_at_cluemail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 10:42:21 -0400
Too much traffic for me.   Plus that runout looks mighty short.  

I'm not a big fan of being firmly embedded in the sand under a breaking
wave.  I've been there a few times and can't say the rides around the
drubbing were worth it.

I'll stick with the boring east coast waves on a gentle sloping beach.  
I like to bail off the waves just as they break, leaving the breaking
sequence to the surfers.   21' boats just don't turn fast enough to play
in the break zone.

One more comment on the surf skier traversing the wedge.  He was on his
way out to paddle the waves around and beyond the shore break, he wasn't
there for rides in/on the wedge.

On Sep 5 b11, "Mark Sanders" <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net> wrote:
> I like the YouTube version better, because it shows the ski coming in 
> earlier. Also, it has the classic, Cailifornia 'surfer dude' commentary!!
> So, Kirk, should we give you a call the next time the Wedge picks up?

-- 
  Kirk Olsen
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 12:38:22 -0700
Obviously a few folks have their heads stuck in the sand when it comes to getting a perspective but that's okay, things like this tend to drive a wedge into the watersports community. :-)

My first thought when I saw the vid was this surf skier guy looked like he was trying to clear the area and knew what he was doing. 

Kirk, I'd rather be hit by your ski rather than, anything else. Where I paddle it's easy to find stretches where there arenbt any other "obstacles" other than logs, and they hurt in the surf, nay, they are a deadly force when ripped off the beach at higher than high tides in big low pressure systems often associated with big swell.

For me, I consider board surfers swimmers and therefore, avoid crowded breaks and/or seek areas on the periphery if I must. Of course, my head is often stuck in the water, though one's rll does improve working surf lines...

Doug  



>>Too much traffic for me.   Plus that runout looks mighty short.  

I'm not a big fan of being firmly embedded in the sand under a breaking
wave.  I've been there a few times and can't say the rides around the
drubbing were worth it.

I'll stick with the boring east coast waves on a gentle sloping beach.  
I like to bail off the waves just as they break, leaving the breaking
sequence to the surfers.   21' boats just don't turn fast enough to play
in the break zone.

One more comment on the surf skier traversing the wedge.  He was on his
way out to paddle the waves around and beyond the shore break, he wasn't
there for rides in/on the wedge.

On Sep 5 b11, "Mark Sanders" <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net> wrote:
> I like the YouTube version better, because it shows the ski coming in 
> earlier. Also, it has the classic, Cailifornia 'surfer dude' commentary!!
> So, Kirk, should we give you a call the next time the Wedge picks up?

Kirk Olsen<<
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 14:48:00 -0700
Hi Doug,

On Tuesday, September 06, 2011, at 12:38:22 PM PST, you wrote:

> My first thought when I saw the vid was this surf skier guy looked
> like he was trying to clear the area and knew what he was doing.

If clearing the area was all he wanted to do, he could have launched
from the bay, and paddled out the other side of the jetty. Obviously,
the fun of paddling out through the Wedge was his preferred method.
Lots of people who "know what they're doing" can get into trouble.
Taking on such risks solo is one thing. It's another thing entirely to
needlessly involve others in your risk taking; even if it remains more
fun than available alternatives.

Of course, Nick and others have made the point that all the board and
body surfers who choose to play at the Wedge have already accepted
considerable risk to themselves and others. True enough, but
personally, I feel there's more to *this particular place* that
perhaps shouldn't be entirely overlooked...

No doubt it began long before I discovered my own love of body surfing
at the Wedge (late '70s), and has continued to this day; the Wedge is
*known* as a very special board/body surfing spot, and despite the
obvious risks--and injuries/tragedies--the board and body surfers have
sorted out a "system" of sharing that particular/peculiar wave that,
for the most part, works for these two groups as they share the wave.

Fair or not with regards to "rights of access", some things are simply
"understood", and though I'm not one to simply accept every bit of
status quo I might bump up against (far from it, indeed), this is one
instance that despite my passionate, even obsessive love of paddling,
I'd accept the "sacrifice" of not paddling out through the Wedge (even
if I would just like to "clear the area"). The board and body surfers
*are going to be there*, along with all the risks already involved.
Even if one accepts risks to themselves, why create additional risk
*to others*?  I still posit that a 20' long hard shell projectile, no
matter how skilled it's paddler, *needlessly* enhances the danger for
several people; for the "benefit" of one.

There are plenty of places for highly skilled, thrill appreciating
paddlers to enjoy, and no surfer -- board or body -- will ever get in
*their* way (just ask the Tsunami Rangers, I'm sure they could
recommend a nice spot or two). In this sense, paddlers up and down
this beautiful west coast already have more "particularly special"
options than board and body surfers.

The Wedge is what it is, and I'm happy enough to let it be. I can
paddle elsewhere.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Spam:*********, Re: waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:06:58 -0700
Years ago I surfed for a while and I found the surfers to be the some  
of the rudest people I've ever met. They get angry because you took  
"their" wave, or because you are in the way of "their" ride, etc etc.

I would consider knocking some of those surfers in the head with a  
kayak a good thing.

Paul M
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Spam:*********, Re: waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 16:33:33 -0700
On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Paul Montgomery <paul_at_paddleandoar.com>wrote:

> Years ago I surfed for a while and I found the surfers to be the some of
> the rudest people I've ever met. They get angry because you took "their"
> wave, or because you are in the way of "their" ride, etc etc.
>
> I would consider knocking some of those surfers in the head with a kayak a
> good thing.
>

I am shocked... shocked!... to hear that Annette's buds are not the laid
back, super easy-going, and downright helpful folks on the beach. LOL

Although, come to think of it, I always thought Frankie Avalon's surfing
scenes were faked. :D

Craig
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Spam:*********, Re: waves in california
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 12:55:13 -0700
Hi Paul,

On Tuesday, September 06, 2011, at 4:06:58 PM PST, you wrote:

> Years ago I surfed for a while and I found the surfers to be the
> some of the rudest people I've ever met. They get angry because you
> took "their" wave, or because you are in the way of "their" ride,
> etc etc.

You need to get out more.  Rudeness can be found just about anywhere
we humans can be found.  Though I'm not entirely unfamiliar with both
the concept and reality of rude surfers, they certainly can't claim a
monopoly on rudeness "as a group", nor on degrees of rudeness.

That said, it's no problem at all for me to come up with a list of
truly wonderful people I've known through the years...who happen to be
avid surfers as well.  I've even known several rather rude paddlers,
come to think of it.

> I would consider knocking some of those surfers in the head with a
> kayak a good thing.

How's your aim?  Ever accidentally hit a polite surfer in the head
with your kayak?

I wonder what we might think of paddlers who fantasize about hitting
others in the head with their boats? Rudeness might be an inadequate
descriptor. ;)

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 23:48:45 -0700
Fair enough Melissa on the fine point. I don't know the break and certainly you speak with some good authority or better, out of experience. So other than the fact the Wedge is a foreshortened surf zone with a steep dumping wave, for me the issue remains mixed traffic with swimmers. I don't know where SUP's fit in but it seems mixing kayaks into the equation adds to a greater potential for injury to those in the water in surf=advisory conditions. I see a lot of paddlers mixing it up with board surfers in benign wave conditions so I'm thinking the dangers escalate considerable at around 6 feet and greater, moving expotentially, which makes places like the Wedge on a big day a bad place to be for the paddler. So I do agree with you.


Hi Doug,

On Tuesday, September 06, 2011, at 12:38:22 PM PST, you wrote:

> My first thought when I saw the vid was this surf skier guy looked
> like he was trying to clear the area and knew what he was doing.

If clearing the area was all he wanted to do, he could have launched
from the bay, and paddled out the other side of the jetty. Obviously,
the fun of paddling out through the Wedge was his preferred method.
Lots of people who "know what they're doing" can get into trouble.
Taking on such risks solo is one thing. It's another thing entirely to
needlessly involve others in your risk taking; even if it remains more
fun than available alternatives.

Of course, Nick and others have made the point that all the board and
body surfers who choose to play at the Wedge have already accepted
considerable risk to themselves and others. True enough, but
personally, I feel there's more to *this particular place* that
perhaps shouldn't be entirely overlooked...

No doubt it began long before I discovered my own love of body surfing
at the Wedge (late '70s), and has continued to this day; the Wedge is
*known* as a very special board/body surfing spot, and despite the
obvious risks--and injuries/tragedies--the board and body surfers have
sorted out a "system" of sharing that particular/peculiar wave that,
for the most part, works for these two groups as they share the wave.

Fair or not with regards to "rights of access", some things are simply
"understood", and though I'm not one to simply accept every bit of
status quo I might bump up against (far from it, indeed), this is one
instance that despite my passionate, even obsessive love of paddling,
I'd accept the "sacrifice" of not paddling out through the Wedge (even
if I would just like to "clear the area"). The board and body surfers
*are going to be there*, along with all the risks already involved.
Even if one accepts risks to themselves, why create additional risk
*to others*?  I still posit that a 20' long hard shell projectile, no
matter how skilled it's paddler, *needlessly* enhances the danger for
several people; for the "benefit" of one.

There are plenty of places for highly skilled, thrill appreciating
paddlers to enjoy, and no surfer -- board or body -- will ever get in
*their* way (just ask the Tsunami Rangers, I'm sure they could
recommend a nice spot or two). In this sense, paddlers up and down
this beautiful west coast already have more "particularly special"
options than board and body surfers.

The Wedge is what it is, and I'm happy enough to let it be. I can
paddle elsewhere.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 19:11:29 -0700
Melissa,

Pulled this post out of my deletes just to mention I did a little research on the web regarding the Wedge. The spot wasn't on my radar; I'd also glossed over a few other posts. Now I get it. What a wave! Wow. Even the experts have difficulty with the unpredictable nature of the break. 

Doug 


Hi Doug,

On Tuesday, September 06, 2011, at 12:38:22 PM PST, you wrote:

> My first thought when I saw the vid was this surf skier guy looked
> like he was trying to clear the area and knew what he was doing.

If clearing the area was all he wanted to do, he could have launched
from the bay, and paddled out the other side of the jetty. Obviously,
the fun of paddling out through the Wedge was his preferred method.
Lots of people who "know what they're doing" can get into trouble.
Taking on such risks solo is one thing. It's another thing entirely to
needlessly involve others in your risk taking; even if it remains more
fun than available alternatives.

Of course, Nick and others have made the point that all the board and
body surfers who choose to play at the Wedge have already accepted
considerable risk to themselves and others. True enough, but
personally, I feel there's more to *this particular place* that
perhaps shouldn't be entirely overlooked...

No doubt it began long before I discovered my own love of body surfing
at the Wedge (late '70s), and has continued to this day; the Wedge is
*known* as a very special board/body surfing spot, and despite the
obvious risks--and injuries/tragedies--the board and body surfers have
sorted out a "system" of sharing that particular/peculiar wave that,
for the most part, works for these two groups as they share the wave.

Fair or not with regards to "rights of access", some things are simply
"understood", and though I'm not one to simply accept every bit of
status quo I might bump up against (far from it, indeed), this is one
instance that despite my passionate, even obsessive love of paddling,
I'd accept the "sacrifice" of not paddling out through the Wedge (even
if I would just like to "clear the area"). The board and body surfers
*are going to be there*, along with all the risks already involved.
Even if one accepts risks to themselves, why create additional risk
*to others*?  I still posit that a 20' long hard shell projectile, no
matter how skilled it's paddler, *needlessly* enhances the danger for
several people; for the "benefit" of one.

There are plenty of places for highly skilled, thrill appreciating
paddlers to enjoy, and no surfer -- board or body -- will ever get in
*their* way (just ask the Tsunami Rangers, I'm sure they could
recommend a nice spot or two). In this sense, paddlers up and down
this beautiful west coast already have more "particularly special"
options than board and body surfers.

The Wedge is what it is, and I'm happy enough to let it be. I can
paddle elsewhere.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:56:05 +0000 (UTC)
So this whole Wedge scene... 

The boardies claim it as theirs. The body surfers claim it as theirs. Looks like the system that some have claimed is in place really doesnt fly. On top of that no outsiders allowed according to the locals. Makes me sick. You cannot pee on a spot of ocean and call it your own. 

What is it with West coast surfers? We dont see this level of senseless aggression on the East coast. We surf, watch out for one another and talk in the lineup like people rather than acting like angry, maladjusted high school bullies. 

Lots and lots of language starting at 1:51 so if thats a problem dont click the link. And if its not safe for work perhaps you should be working and not on the web. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M531zSmI55I 

< big snip of top posting>
[Please remove all old content that is not pertinent to your reply
including old headers and footers.  It's list policy.... 
this post was modified to meet policy]
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 16:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Paddlerwisers,
 
This Wedge is just on the other side of the jetty at the
Newport Bay entrance. Sometimes as we paddle out, spray and even waves from
the Wedge wash over the jetty. Many body and board surfers have broken their
necks there and become paralyzed, and it seems like almost every year someone
dies, all from being pounded onto the sand. Just about anytime the surf is up,
an ambulance is posted on stand-by. The photos and video of Sprout on his
surfski in the wave are amazing and inspiring (I want the poster), but my
guess is that will be reason for the lifeguards to yell on the bullhorn for
kayakers to stay well outside the surfzone anytime it's crowded with surfers.
I've been bullhorned a couple times myself at other beaches.
 
Duane
Southern
California
www.rollordrown.com
 

From: Kirk Olsen kork4_at_cluemail.com
>
>http://vimeo.com/28541229
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 19:19:33 -0700
He sounds like he knows what he's doing, but I don't know if I think 
that's a good enough reason to do it! Seems like a loose ski could have 
caused a lot of carnage with the others closer to shore.
A 20' wave would make a nice backdrop for the Lollygagger though!

Mark

On 9/5/2011 4:01 PM, Duane Strosaker wrote:
> The photos and video of Sprout on his
> surfski in the wave are amazing and inspiring (I want the poster), but my
> guess is that will be reason for the lifeguards to yell on the bullhorn for
> kayakers to stay well outside the surfzone anytime it's crowded with surfers.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2011 21:16:54 -0700
Hi Mark,

On Monday, September 05, 2011, at 7:19:33 PM PST, you wrote:

> He sounds like he knows what he's doing, but I don't know if I think
> that's a good enough reason to do it! Seems like a loose ski could
> have caused a lot of carnage with the others closer to shore.

I concur. Just because someone has the skills to do something (as long
as all goes well - never a guarantee), if the enhanced potential to
hurt other people exists (as it always will on a day like that at the
Wedge - especially with a 20' potential projectile), thinking of
others should trump fun/ego/bravado/whatever; regardless of one's
prowess and credentials. I'd call it selfish and irresponsible, at the
very least.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Paul Hayward <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 17:18:55 +1200
Mark said
>a loose ski could have caused a lot of carnage with the others closer to
shore

& Melissa said
>on a day like that at the Wedge - especially with a 20' potential 
>projectile), thinking of others should trump fun/ego/bravado/whatever; 
>regardless of one's prowess and credentials. I'd call it selfish 

Not taking sides here, but this seems a to be a fundamental question of
ethics. Have we an ethical right to have fun, or engage in risky activity,
in the presence of others - where we might damage those others if our risk
gets out of control.

Let's assume for the moment that the 'others' are also out there taking part
in risky activity themselves, rather than just 'innocent passers-by'. I
think this is reasonable in the circumstances, as there wouldn't (I hope)
have been any toddlers in that surf... there was some risk just swimming in
it.

Melissa, is the use of a surf ski different from using a surf board in a
group situation ? If it's not, do you also condemn such use of surf boards -
with other surfies or swimmers in the water? If it is different, is it
different in 'kind' or in 'quantity' ie: do you see it as posing a different
type of risk or just a greater risk ?

As I said above, I'm not trying to get at anyone - just interested in
opinions. I must answer this question myself every time I kayak into a
swimming beach through surf - or go out to play in a short or long kayak
with board & body surfers.

Best Regards
Paul Hayward, Auckland, New Zealand
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 01:40:33 -0700
Hi Paul,

On Monday, September 05, 2011, at 10:18:55 PM PST, you wrote:

> Melissa, is the use of a surf ski different from using a surf board
> in a group situation ? If it's not, do you also condemn such use of
> surf boards - with other surfies or swimmers in the water? If it is
> different, is it different in 'kind' or in 'quantity' ie: do you see
> it as posing a different type of risk or just a greater risk ?

A bit of both, I'd say; and I still feel that it was a bad decision on
the part of the surf skier to be there, then. It's not a matter of who
has a "right" to be there, it's a matter of judgment and personal
responsibility.

The Wedge is a dangerous wave; considering the wave itself, the jetty,
the slope of the beach right there, and the sheer number of people in
the water on a day like that (I've been there in those conditions many
times - as a body surfer). Though certainly dangerous, for years, I
came to know a certain tenuous equilibrium that existed there between
board and body surfers, but as Duane has also noted, people do get
hurt, and die there as well.

I was certainly *young and stupid enough* to have thoroughly enjoyed
all my close encounters with the Wedge during the five years I lived
down there. And I was lucky, too.  I survived.

In the countless times I've been there, even though it did get crazy
(we called it "gnarly") at times with lots of people in the water (in
front of, in, on, under, behind, etc.), it was kind of miraculous that
more people didn't get hurt and killed. In spite of the apparent
chaos, there was some rhyme and reason to it as well, and board and
body surfers sorted themselves out surprisingly well in some organic
sort of way. Not foolproof by any means, but we worked it out, and
"few" people got hurt.

All that said, though I won't claim the kind of boat/wave prowess that
surfski paddler has (and I'm not a surfski paddler, just a sea kayak
paddler), I've had enough experience in waves to have felt both
sublime control and a spot of bother now and again (sublime control
can turn into a spot of bother in an instant). No matter how much
experience I might have now or into the future, I'd still never take
my boat into a situation like that, at the Wedge. Just knowing what
*could* happen is all I'd need to make that decision. An easy
decision, indeed.

A long boat, with either paddler or water in it (even the best of
paddlers can be separated from their boat in that wave - trust me on
that), will add an unquestionably enhanced degree of danger to all in
the vicinity - and it happens in an instant. 20/20 hindsight might
help the experienced paddler learn something for the next time, but
the damage may very well have already been done. Is the juice worth
the squeeze?

Granted, the Wedge is a very special wave, and I fully understand
wanting to have some fun there (I wouldn't put it past myself to give
it another go--body surfing--if I find myself down there again
someday), but there are plenty of other breaks where long boat
paddlers can have all sorts of fun, and not stand such a perfect
chance of hurting so many people in one unhappy yard sale.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 07:05:47 -0700
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 10:18 PM, Paul Hayward <pdh_at_mmcl.co.nz> wrote:

>
> Not taking sides here, but this seems a to be a fundamental question of
> ethics. Have we an ethical right to have fun, or engage in risky activity,
> in the presence of others - where we might damage those others if our risk
> gets out of control.
>

This reminds me of skiers versus snowboarders, mountain bikers versus hikers
and equestrians, snowmobilers versus cross-country skiers and others.

I'm not sure I'd describe it as an ethics question since there is plenty of
risk all around. I think it's more a balance of rights. Who has the most
"right" to any given activity at any given location? The perception of
increased danger was enough to deny snowboarding at many ski resorts 20
years ago using the theory that snowboarders tended to go too fast and
endanger other skiers. This question has been resolved simply because there
are now so many snowboarders that a ski area denying them entrance would
probably go bankrupt quickly.

Shore breaks, like mountains, attract several different activities that are
not mutually exclusive but typically made to be so by the attitudes of those
taking part in the more classical use. Mountain bikes don't tear up trails
any more than horses do but yet, to this day, horses and hikers are allowed
on trails in the National Parks but - at least in general - bicycles are
not. And places like Issaquash are still battling it out between hiking and
biking.

The state of Washington has had to separate trails for snow machines and
cross country skiers even though many years ago (before grooming) we used to
welcome them because then no one had to break trail. But the snow machines
couldn't go 70mph back then either.

I wouldn't take a kayak into the Wedge... but then I'm not a member of the
U.S. Kayak and Canoe team either (but I do have a wing paddle that says *it*
is). But the risk on that wave seems to be pretty much equal regardless of
the vehicle. Just bodies tumbling around are dangerous enough.

Personally, I'd rather have a 30-pound surfski hit me than a 180-pound
surfer with a surrfboard attached to his ankle.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, wA
www.nwkayaking.net and www.bigboxbikes.com
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Nick Schade <nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 09:43:36 -0400
Watching video of the Wedge (which BTW looks absolutely brutal) I've seen several occasions where surfers are running into each other. 180 pound bodies dropping 10' down out of the curl on top of someone appears fairly common place. And collision avoidance appears to be part of the requisite skill set. The wave is a shore break with surfers risking getting dumped head first into the sand. Bodies and boards get tossed around like plastic soldiers in the hands of a 12 year old. Nothing about the place suggests a shred of "safe" is involved in the activity.

 So, I'm looking at the risk factors involved in playing in this spot and it seems to me that a 30# surfski tumbling through the mix does not appreciably change the risks. Sure, it is a potential danger, but it is kind of like juggling torches during a forest fire.

 If Mr. Sprout had been a second or so slower he and his boat would have been munched, and the various pieces of his ski would have been spit out. There may have been a few more bruises and contusions as a result, but they happen all the time anyway, so I'm not sure how it would be different than any other day.

On Sep 6, 2011, at 12:16 AM, Melissa Reese wrote:

> I concur. Just because someone has the skills to do something (as long
> as all goes well - never a guarantee), if the enhanced potential to
> hurt other people exists (as it always will on a day like that at the
> Wedge - especially with a 20' potential projectile), thinking of
> others should trump fun/ego/bravado/whatever; regardless of one's
> prowess and credentials. I'd call it selfish and irresponsible, at the
> very least.
> 

Nick Schade

Guillemot Kayaks
54 South Rd
Groton, CT 06340
USA
Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Melissa Reese <willkayakforfood_at_gmx.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 12:27:02 -0700
Hi Nick,

On Tuesday, September 06, 2011, at 6:43:36 AM PST, you wrote:

> So, I'm looking at the risk factors involved in playing in this spot
> and it seems to me that a 30# surfski tumbling through the mix does
> not appreciably change the risks.

In this particular case, I think the length/shape of the boat, and the
speed/trajectory with which it can be hurtled through the surf are
more relevant factors than simply its weight when trying to determine
its potential for inflicting damage on bodies (and how many bodies can
be damaged by a single object per such incident). Being lightly bumped
by 30 pounds may not seem too extreme, but being hit by a hard shell
object moving at great speed/force can be a particularly disagreeable
experience.

-- 
Melissa
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: David Gottlieb <snedenslanding_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 10:10:07 -0400
I try not to get involved in these back and forth debates. One never knows what happens, so trying to determine what risk factors exist isn't important. What I believe Melissa is saying is why take the chance of putting an uncontrolled missile, in the middle of what already seems to be a dangerous situation, that could strike and injure, paralyze or kill others. Just because there are a bunch of nutty surfers out on the Wedge who may be taking dangerous risks, doesn't mean everyone with a kayak should be just as irresponsible and make the situation even more dangerous.

You have a choice to be responsible or to be selfish. Sometimes we need to make sacrifices, and we all know the surfers won't budge.....

It is an individual decision, but the decision also could have consequences. I always would err with caution and safety considerations of others. And I would never go out in a Wedge even if the beach was empty!!!!!! 



On Sep 6, 2011, at 9:43 AM, Nick Schade wrote:

> Watching video of the Wedge (which BTW looks absolutely brutal) I've seen several occasions where surfers are running into each other. 180 pound bodies dropping 10' down out of the curl on top of someone appears fairly common place. And collision avoidance appears to be part of the requisite skill set. The wave is a shore break with surfers risking getting dumped head first into the sand. Bodies and boards get tossed around like plastic soldiers in the hands of a 12 year old. Nothing about the place suggests a shred of "safe" is involved in the activity.
> 
> So, I'm looking at the risk factors involved in playing in this spot and it seems to me that a 30# surfski tumbling through the mix does not appreciably change the risks. Sure, it is a potential danger, but it is kind of like juggling torches during a forest fire.
> 
> If Mr. Sprout had been a second or so slower he and his boat would have been munched, and the various pieces of his ski would have been spit out. There may have been a few more bruises and contusions as a result, but they happen all the time anyway, so I'm not sure how it would be different than any other day.
> 
> On Sep 6, 2011, at 12:16 AM, Melissa Reese wrote:
> 
>> I concur. Just because someone has the skills to do something (as long
>> as all goes well - never a guarantee), if the enhanced potential to
>> hurt other people exists (as it always will on a day like that at the
>> Wedge - especially with a 20' potential projectile), thinking of
>> others should trump fun/ego/bravado/whatever; regardless of one's
>> prowess and credentials. I'd call it selfish and irresponsible, at the
>> very least.
>> 
> 
> Nick Schade
> 
> Guillemot Kayaks
> 54 South Rd
> Groton, CT 06340
> USA
> Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847
> http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
> ***************************************************************************
> PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
> here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
> responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
> Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
> Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
> Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
> ***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Nick Schade <nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 11:02:35 -0400
Everyone who steps into the water there is creating a potential missile or bludgeon that creates a risk for the people who are already there. By the logic of "not putting others at risk" once one person is out there, everyone else should wait until that person is done. Personally, I think this would be wise, but practically, I don't foresee it happening.
 
On Sep 6, 2011, at 10:10 AM, David Gottlieb wrote:

> I try not to get involved in these back and forth debates. One never knows what happens, so trying to determine what risk factors exist isn't important. What I believe Melissa is saying is why take the chance of putting an uncontrolled missile, in the middle of what already seems to be a dangerous situation, that could strike and injure, paralyze or kill others. 

Nick Schade

Guillemot Kayaks
54 South Rd
Groton, CT 06340
USA
Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847
http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: MATT MARINER BROZE <marinerkayaks_at_msn.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 10:19:24 -0700
Question to those who know about these things better than I: Would it be of
any help, safety wise, if the paddler teathered himself to the kayak like
board surfers do with their boards. Or would it be even more dangerous for the
paddler himself. Maybe get a leg yanked off or something. Surfers don't even
wear helmets. Why don't they get beaned more often by the surfboads teathered
to them?

Surfers are young men forced to share a limited resource. Fighting, threats,
and rudeness come with the territory. Usually some accomadations get worked
out among the regulars, but pity the poor interloper, especially if he from a
different genra of watercraft. Of course, a she might be welcomed with, uh
shall we say, "open arms".
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Scott Hilliard <kiayker_at_sbcglobal.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:32:52 -0700
> Question to those who know about these things better than I: Would it be of
> any help, safety wise, if the paddler teathered himself to the kayak like
> board surfers do with their boards. Or would it be even more dangerous for the
> paddler himself. Maybe get a leg yanked off or something. Surfers don't even
> wear helmets. Why don't they get beaned more often by the surfboads teathered
> to them?

   I grew up in Corona del Mar, which is the community on the opposite 
side of the harbor entrance to the Wedge.  On a good day in the 
summertime my usual routine was to grab a swimsuit and a pair of fins 
and walk down to the harbor entrance, then swim across to the other side 
trying to avoid the boat traffic. Of course this was illegal, and 
probably not the smartest thing to do, but what did I know about being 
smart - I was there to body surf the Wedge. Once on the other side I 
would meet up with friends and surf all day, at the end of which I would 
usually bum a ride back home again rather then try to swim back across 
the harbor.
   In those days hard boards were not allowed at the Wedge. It was a 
body surfing wave, and introducing boards was just too risky to the 
swimmers - this was before board leashes became the norm. As I have 
discussed on this list in the past, for someone who is skilled at 
swimming in the surf, wearing flotation, like a pfd, creates more 
problems then  it solves. And while I have known countless surfers who 
needed to get wounds stitched up as a result of getting hit by a board 
(many times their own), I have never known a board or body surfer to 
wear a helmet. Maybe they should - I don't know. I do know it's never 
going to happen. Of course many on the list know me as the guy who 
thinks that pfd's and helmets are not all they are cracked up to be in 
kayaking either. But that's neither here nor there right now.
   Your typical surfboard is very light, and creates much less 
resistance being pulled through the water then one would think. And 
since they are usually attached to the swimmer by a leash they are not 
prone to flying totally out of control in the surf. Compare that to the 
kayaker I personally know who got tangled in their boat-to-paddle leash 
in the surf and was dragged into shore collecting numerous scrapes and 
contusions along the way. It was a dangerous situation for this paddler 
to be in, and would have been a dangerous situation for any swimmers 
that might have been in the path of the runaway kayak.

   On a side note I was down in Carlsbad spending a weekend with my wife 
just as the surf began to pick up. My wife wanted to get wet in the 
ocean, so I went down to the water with her. She got her hair wet and 
went back up to the sand. I had to at least try to body surf some of 
these waves which were running a very consistent six foot. The only 
problem was, I didn't have any fins. Not to be deterred I started with 
some of the smaller waves closer to shore, but  was not able to get up 
enough speed with bare feet to get on them. So I thought maybe I could 
use gravity to my advantage and at least drop down the face of some of 
the larger waves. I tried several times, but it turned out to be a 
pretty futile attempt. Eventually I gave up, and when I turned to start 
working my way back into shore I found a young lifeguard about fifty 
feet away trying to get my attention. Suddenly it hit me - the lifeguard 
was apparently so impressed by the total awesomeness of my body surfing 
abilities he felt he needed to come out and rescue me! OMG! I told him I 
was OK, and made it in without his assistance.
   I figured out two things on this day. One, the next time I'm bringing 
fins. And two, my days at the Wedge are definitely over :-)

Scott
So.Cal.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 15:56:13 -0700
Yes! When I commented on the surfski, I had this in mind--memories from 
my growing up in the area. I imagine with the mobility of the short 
board, the restrictions had to reexamined! I like the idea of the Wedge 
being reserved for body surfers and spongers, but I'm probably 
influenced by a bit of nostalgia! Still, I don't think a surfski is 
equivalent to a board as far as damage potential. If surfskis are OK, 
I'm sure there's some outrigger paddlers who would love to make a name 
for themselves?
WHERE WILL IT ALL END!!!

(Just had to go watch it one more time!)
Mark

On 9/8/2011 3:32 PM, Scott Hilliard wrote:
>   In those days hard boards were not allowed at the Wedge. It was a 
> body surfing wave, and introducing boards was just too risky to the 
> swimmers - this was before board leashes became the norm.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Bob Myers <qajaqbob_at_gmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 16:00:19 -0700
I think we need to distinguish between sit-on-tops and sit-inside boats.  A
swamped boat, full of water, has an extraordinarily large amount of momentum
- there's probably hundreds of pounds of mass there.  The surf ski we were
talking about originally doesn't have that problem, I think, though it still
weighs more than a surfboard.

Weight of the boat, swamped or not, isn't everything though - a large
unswamped boat, even a light one, that is being pushed by a wave still can
have the momentum of the water behind it.


On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 15:32, Scott Hilliard <kiayker_at_sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>  Question to those who know about these things better than I: Would it be
>> of
>> any help, safety wise, if the paddler teathered himself to the kayak like
>> board surfers do with their boards. Or would it be even more dangerous for
>> the
>> paddler himself. Maybe get a leg yanked off or something.
>>
>

>   Your typical surfboard is very light, and creates much less resistance
> being pulled through the water then one would think. And since they are
> usually attached to the swimmer by a leash they are not prone to flying
> totally out of control in the surf. Compare that to the kayaker I personally
> know who got tangled in their boat-to-paddle leash in the surf and was
> dragged into shore collecting numerous scrapes and contusions along the way.
> It was a dangerous situation for this paddler to be in, and would have been
> a dangerous situation for any swimmers that might have been in the path of
> the runaway kayak.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Mark Sanders <marksanders_at_sandmarks.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:29:55 -0700
About a week ago, I tried to squeeze my large posterior into my friend 
Ken's Elite surfski. No dice! But I was really surprised at the cockpit! 
It isn't really very shallow and has steep sides. So even though it's 
not a closed deck boat, I could see it holding on to quite a bit of 
water. So it might be just the luck of the draw as far as its 
orientation as it's about to land on your head!

Mark

On 9/8/2011 4:00 PM, Bob Myers wrote:
>   A swamped boat, full of water, has an extraordinarily large amount of momentum
> - there's probably hundreds of pounds of mass there.  The surf ski we were
> talking about originally doesn't have that problem, I think
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 21:40:48 -0700
Scott, enjoyed your post - immensely!

Matt, I think kayaks are safer when loose in surf _if and when_ outfitted
with Sp*ns*ns! :-)

Bob M, some intelligence, thank you.

Jim, if you think surf wars are bad, you should try the cyclists versus
automobile wars...

Melissa, riding a wave out of lurkersville...

Mark, you ARE a big kayak surfer bum...

DL





> Question to those who know about these things better than I: Would it be
of
> any help, safety wise, if the paddler teathered himself to the kayak like
> board surfers do with their boards. Or would it be even more dangerous for
the
> paddler himself. Maybe get a leg yanked off or something. Surfers don't
even
> wear helmets. Why don't they get beaned more often by the surfboads
teathered
> to them?

   I grew up in Corona del Mar, which is the community on the opposite 
side of the harbor entrance to the Wedge.  On a good day in the 
summertime my usual routine was to grab a swimsuit and a pair of fins 
and walk down to the harbor entrance, then swim across to the other side 
trying to avoid the boat traffic. Of course this was illegal, and 
probably not the smartest thing to do, but what did I know about being 
smart - I was there to body surf the Wedge. Once on the other side I 
would meet up with friends and surf all day, at the end of which I would 
usually bum a ride back home again rather then try to swim back across 
the harbor.
   In those days hard boards were not allowed at the Wedge. It was a 
body surfing wave, and introducing boards was just too risky to the 
swimmers - this was before board leashes became the norm. As I have 
discussed on this list in the past, for someone who is skilled at 
swimming in the surf, wearing flotation, like a pfd, creates more 
problems then  it solves. And while I have known countless surfers who 
needed to get wounds stitched up as a result of getting hit by a board 
(many times their own), I have never known a board or body surfer to 
wear a helmet. Maybe they should - I don't know. I do know it's never 
going to happen. Of course many on the list know me as the guy who 
thinks that pfd's and helmets are not all they are cracked up to be in 
kayaking either. But that's neither here nor there right now.
   Your typical surfboard is very light, and creates much less 
resistance being pulled through the water then one would think. And 
since they are usually attached to the swimmer by a leash they are not 
prone to flying totally out of control in the surf. Compare that to the 
kayaker I personally know who got tangled in their boat-to-paddle leash 
in the surf and was dragged into shore collecting numerous scrapes and 
contusions along the way. It was a dangerous situation for this paddler 
to be in, and would have been a dangerous situation for any swimmers 
that might have been in the path of the runaway kayak.

   On a side note I was down in Carlsbad spending a weekend with my wife 
just as the surf began to pick up. My wife wanted to get wet in the 
ocean, so I went down to the water with her. She got her hair wet and 
went back up to the sand. I had to at least try to body surf some of 
these waves which were running a very consistent six foot. The only 
problem was, I didn't have any fins. Not to be deterred I started with 
some of the smaller waves closer to shore, but  was not able to get up 
enough speed with bare feet to get on them. So I thought maybe I could 
use gravity to my advantage and at least drop down the face of some of 
the larger waves. I tried several times, but it turned out to be a 
pretty futile attempt. Eventually I gave up, and when I turned to start 
working my way back into shore I found a young lifeguard about fifty 
feet away trying to get my attention. Suddenly it hit me - the lifeguard 
was apparently so impressed by the total awesomeness of my body surfing 
abilities he felt he needed to come out and rescue me! OMG! I told him I 
was OK, and made it in without his assistance.
   I figured out two things on this day. One, the next time I'm bringing 
fins. And two, my days at the Wedge are definitely over :-)

Scott
So.Cal.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] waves in california
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 21:43:23 -0700
Final word on helmets...

http://unofficialnetworks.com/ca-ski-helmet-law-pass-gov-jerry-browns-dest-l
ame-smart-36497/only-pussies-wear-helmets/

> Question to those who know about these things better than I: Would it be
of
> any help, safety wise, if the paddler teathered himself to the kayak like
> board surfers do with their boards. Or would it be even more dangerous for
the
> paddler himself. Maybe get a leg yanked off or something. Surfers don't
even
> wear helmets. Why don't they get beaned more often by the surfboads
teathered
> to them?

   I grew up in Corona del Mar, which is the community on the opposite 
side of the harbor entrance to the Wedge.  On a good day in the 
summertime my usual routine was to grab a swimsuit and a pair of fins 
and walk down to the harbor entrance, then swim across to the other side 
trying to avoid the boat traffic. Of course this was illegal, and 
probably not the smartest thing to do, but what did I know about being 
smart - I was there to body surf the Wedge. Once on the other side I 
would meet up with friends and surf all day, at the end of which I would 
usually bum a ride back home again rather then try to swim back across 
the harbor.
   In those days hard boards were not allowed at the Wedge. It was a 
body surfing wave, and introducing boards was just too risky to the 
swimmers - this was before board leashes became the norm. As I have 
discussed on this list in the past, for someone who is skilled at 
swimming in the surf, wearing flotation, like a pfd, creates more 
problems then  it solves. And while I have known countless surfers who 
needed to get wounds stitched up as a result of getting hit by a board 
(many times their own), I have never known a board or body surfer to 
wear a helmet. Maybe they should - I don't know. I do know it's never 
going to happen. Of course many on the list know me as the guy who 
thinks that pfd's and helmets are not all they are cracked up to be in 
kayaking either. But that's neither here nor there right now.
   Your typical surfboard is very light, and creates much less 
resistance being pulled through the water then one would think. And 
since they are usually attached to the swimmer by a leash they are not 
prone to flying totally out of control in the surf. Compare that to the 
kayaker I personally know who got tangled in their boat-to-paddle leash 
in the surf and was dragged into shore collecting numerous scrapes and 
contusions along the way. It was a dangerous situation for this paddler 
to be in, and would have been a dangerous situation for any swimmers 
that might have been in the path of the runaway kayak.

   On a side note I was down in Carlsbad spending a weekend with my wife 
just as the surf began to pick up. My wife wanted to get wet in the 
ocean, so I went down to the water with her. She got her hair wet and 
went back up to the sand. I had to at least try to body surf some of 
these waves which were running a very consistent six foot. The only 
problem was, I didn't have any fins. Not to be deterred I started with 
some of the smaller waves closer to shore, but  was not able to get up 
enough speed with bare feet to get on them. So I thought maybe I could 
use gravity to my advantage and at least drop down the face of some of 
the larger waves. I tried several times, but it turned out to be a 
pretty futile attempt. Eventually I gave up, and when I turned to start 
working my way back into shore I found a young lifeguard about fifty 
feet away trying to get my attention. Suddenly it hit me - the lifeguard 
was apparently so impressed by the total awesomeness of my body surfing 
abilities he felt he needed to come out and rescue me! OMG! I told him I 
was OK, and made it in without his assistance.
   I figured out two things on this day. One, the next time I'm bringing 
fins. And two, my days at the Wedge are definitely over :-)

Scott
So.Cal.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed
here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire
responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author.
Submissions:     PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net
Subscriptions:   PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:55 PDT