Just a quick thought, I haven't tried this yet. How about partially inflating your inflatable paddle float before you leave the shore. If its fully inflated I can't slip it over the paddle blade. However if it's within 4-5 breaths of full I think I can. Jim *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > Just a quick thought, I haven't tried this yet. > > How about partially inflating your inflatable paddle float before you leave the > shore. If its fully inflated I can't slip it over the paddle blade. However if it's > within 4-5 breaths of full I think I can. Yes, I used to do that before I discovered the solid paddlefloats. The problem I found is that inflatable paddlefloats leak, and leak even more with time. The other problem is that it was quite difficult to pull the float out of the rear bungies because the air would accumulate on one side making it difficult for the bungies to slide over it. I did many tests on inflatable paddlefloats, and gave them lots of second opportunities. My conclusion was that as safety device they are worthless. They can be used as an _aid_ for things like putting two paddlefloats on a victim's paddle (one per blade) to prevent capsizing again while the victim is towed. But as a dependable safety device as any inflatable gadget, they belong to the pile of junk. Maybe we could start a thread on the difference between a safety device and a rescue aid. A safety device is something you can depend on to get out of trouble, a rescue aid is something you use to make rescues more comfortable or easier, once the main threat has been mitigated. - Julio > > Jim > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-05-06 14:22:50 EDT, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << Maybe we could start a thread on the difference between a safety device and a rescue aid. A safety device is something you can depend on to get out of trouble, a rescue aid is something you use to make rescues more comfortable or easier, once the main threat has been mitigated. >> With Julio's distinction in mind, would it be possible to determine what percentage of PaddleWise paddlers use "safety devices" and "rescue aids" as their first line of defense, vice those who use a roll or an unassisted re- entry and roll in normal knock-downs? Not sure how it would work, or if it's feasible to determine or a prudent question. But learning a reliable roll made such a difference to me, and, from what others have indicated, to most paddlers who develop that skill, that it seems to be an important transition in kayaking. (I'm not volunteering to keep score!) Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-05-06 13:36:56 EDT, you write: << How about partially inflating your inflatable paddle float before you leave the shore. If its fully inflated I can't slip it over the paddle blade. However if it's within 4-5 breaths of full I think I can. I say, "How about practicing a few rolls before you head out?" Ken Mannshardt San Francisco Bay Area Sea Kayakers *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> The problem I found is that inflatable paddlefloats leak, and leak > Inexperienced as I am, I would still think unless the paddle float was really ripped, a small/minor sized leak wouldn't neccessarily matter that much. It's not like I'm going to need it for an extended period of time. All I'm going to do is use it for a leg up and possibly a brace while I bail/pump most of the water out, aren't I? > Maybe we could start a thread on the difference between a safety > device > and a rescue aid. A safety device is something you can depend on to > I'm using that logic to determine an electric pump and probably a foot pump are not for me. I'll carry a hand pump but plan on using a bailer now. The more complicated the product/installation/use, the more chance for it to be broken or misused. Same thing with rudders. I've got one, but I don't use it much. Long live the KISS principle :-). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> With Julio's distinction in mind, would it be possible to determine > what > percentage of PaddleWise paddlers use "safety devices" and "rescue > aids" as > their first line of defense, vice those who use a roll or an > unassisted re- > entry and roll in normal knock-downs? Not sure how it would work, or > if it's > feasible to determine or a prudent question. But learning a reliable > roll > Just reading the responses may be adequate to get a good feel where everyone, or at least some of us stand. I subscribe to the John Winter's theory that the best offense is a good defense, so I'm fairly cautous and use that as my first line of defense. Paddle float and sponsons are the second line of defense. Third line of defense would probably be to pray a lot for divine intervention or cuss a lot to keep the adrenilin going. Previous posts show I'm very interested in the subject of rescuse, particulary self-rescue. This year I'll be studying up on 1 or 2 of the simpler rolling techniques. I can't/won't risk getting water in my ears so I won't deliberately put my head under the water. I haven't found an ear plug/wax and bathing/diving cap combination to eliminate that problem to my satisfaction. The risk is minimial, but one I won't take deliberately. So I'm limited to the type/amount of practice I can do. My dumping technique is getting pretty good though. I can dump and not get my hat wet most of the time. :-) I think I can do some practicing without going all the way under, although if I recall from previous readings, head position is important. When I do take a real dump (and I will) I'll make a real attempt at rolling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Clyde; For what it is worth, here is my list of "lines of defense": 1. Sound Judgement 2. Try to paddle in groups of three or more whenever practical 3. Roll 4. Eskimo rescue 5. Assisted rescue (empties boat) 6. Re-enter and roll 7. Paddlefloat rescue without then with sling 8. VHS 9. EPIRB (on ocean) 10. Air horn (mouth blown) 11. Flares, smoke signals, dye marker, 40ft. streamer 12. Exposure bag (brite orange) John Winskill Sisler, Clyde wrote: >>> > I subscribe to the John Winter's theory that the best offense is > a good defense, so I'm fairly cautous and use that as my first line of > defense. > > Paddle float and sponsons are the second line of defense. > > Third line of defense would probably be to pray a lot for divine > intervention or cuss a lot to keep the adrenilin going. >>> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
13. Don't forget the beads! Roger John C. Winskill wrote: > Clyde; > For what it is worth, here is my list of "lines of defense": > > 1. Sound Judgement > 2. Try to paddle in groups of three or more whenever practical > 3. Roll > 4. Eskimo rescue > 5. Assisted rescue (empties boat) > 6. Re-enter and roll > 7. Paddlefloat rescue without then with sling > 8. VHS > 9. EPIRB (on ocean) > 10. Air horn (mouth blown) > 11. Flares, smoke signals, dye marker, 40ft. streamer > 12. Exposure bag (brite orange) > > John Winskill > > Sisler, Clyde wrote: > > >>> > > I subscribe to the John Winter's theory that the best offense is > > a good defense, so I'm fairly cautous and use that as my first line of > > defense. > > > > Paddle float and sponsons are the second line of defense. > > > > Third line of defense would probably be to pray a lot for divine > > intervention or cuss a lot to keep the adrenilin going. > >>> > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> 1. Sound Judgement > Hard to come by. > 2. Try to paddle in groups of three or more whenever practical > I prefer paddling alone much of the time which dosen't neccessarily extend my risk but does limit what I will/can/should do. > 3. Roll > I'll be trying to work on it which is not quite the same as working on it. > 4. Eskimo rescue > Not sure what that is. 5. Assisted rescue (empties boat) > 6. Re-enter and roll > 7. Paddlefloat rescue without then with sling > I find the sling exhausting for some reason and difficult to use. Maybe because it's too high. I find it easier to just use my foot on the float. I'll be off on a 4 day trip the last weekend of the month. The first day I expect to just be practicing braces, hip snaps, etc. as well as different self rescue and bailing/pumping techniques, including trying to get in from the stern with/without paddle/float just to see what I can/cannot do. I'll be timing myself on the rescue techinques to see how I do. There is some strong current that empties into a nice calm area so I may try some stuff there too. > 8. VHS > Someday. Although some sailors believe that if you got yourself into it, you should be able to get yourself out without putting someone else at risk. > 9. EPIRB (on ocean) > 10. Air horn (mouth blown) > I found one in a West Marine catalog that turned out to be a piece of junk. Any idea where to get one online or from a catalog? I've been looking for almost a year now. > 11. Flares, smoke signals, dye marker, 40ft. streamer > Got the flares and dye (green?). Streamers I thought about. I also saw an orange kite with a distress symbol on it. With some sort of radar reflector on it, it might have a great deal of value in certain situations. $50 buck for a kite though????? > 12. Exposure bag (brite orange) > I've heard of them but haven't seen one yet. I just finished a book called 76 Days Adrift (I think). The guy had a fair amount of problems with sharks and those blunt headed little dolphin type fish banging and rubbing into the bottom of his liferaft when the raft was collapsing and his feet were hanging down. That would be an issue with the exposure bag. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Sisler, Clyde wrote:of the simpler rolling techniques. I can't/won't risk getting water > in my ears so I won't deliberately put my head under the water. I > haven't found an ear plug/wax and bathing/diving cap combination to > eliminate that problem to my satisfaction. The risk is minimial, but one > I won't take deliberately. So I'm limited to the type/amount of > practice I can do. > > > *************************************************************************** Kia Ora , have you given any thought to a good quality bathingcap??Posssibly in addition to earplugs?? I'am absolutely clostrophobic upside down, underwater, in a boat. It took me ages to learn to roll in a perouette.In a warmpool. Hence a spare set of split paddles with a permanent solid foam float fixed to a blade on the back of the boat.two loops either side at the rear of the cockpit,to slide one half of the paddle through and re- entree is no problem.The trouble starts to reposition the paddle and float afterwards.Now I,m thinking of shifting this stuff to the foredeck. But the most secure system is to go with a buddy. Succes inyour efforts. Eddie. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Joq wrote; (SNIP) > >With Julio's distinction in mind, would it be possible to determine what >percentage of PaddleWise paddlers use "safety devices" and "rescue aids" as >their first line of defense, vice those who use a roll or an unassisted re- >entry and roll in normal knock-downs? Not sure how it would work, or if it's >feasible to determine or a prudent question. But learning a reliable roll >made such a difference to me, and, from what others have indicated, to most >paddlers who develop that skill, that it seems to be an important transition >in kayaking. (I'm not volunteering to keep score!) The view from the radical left (or is it right?) 1. Weather knowledge, paddling skills, navigation skills. 2. Fear and a pessimistic view of my abilities 3. Never paddle with anyone else if I can avoid it and never depend on them if you do. 4. Roll 5. More fear and pessimism 6. Safety equipment for the rescue of those who are not as fearful or pessimistic as I am and as required by law (fear and pessimism regarding getting a citation). Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Sisler, Clyde <Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com> To: 'paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net' <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 6:31 AM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Paddle Floats > > Previous posts show I'm very interested in the subject of >rescuse, particulary self-rescue. This year I'll be studying up on 1 or >2 of the simpler rolling techniques. I can't/won't risk getting water >in my ears so I won't deliberately put my head under the water. I >haven't found an ear plug/wax and bathing/diving cap combination to >eliminate that problem to my satisfaction. The risk is minimial, but one >I won't take deliberately. So I'm limited to the type/amount of >practice I can do. > > My dumping technique is getting pretty good though. I can dump >and not get my hat wet most of the time. :-) I think I can do some >practicing without going all the way under, although if I recall from >previous readings, head position is important. When I do take a real >dump (and I will) I'll make a real attempt at rolling. > Clyde You might consider ear plugs made from molds cast by an audiologist. They are not cheap but they sound like the best solution for preventing water from entering ears. I have to prevent getting water in one of my ears if at all possible and have tried solutions that are probably similar to the ones you have--without success. In a few weeks I am going for a set a molded plugs and will then see how they work. Bob > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Does anyone know of people who paddle sea kayaks in Lac Leman, Switzerland, near Geneva? I'm going to be in that area for work in a few weeks, thought it would be great to hook up with some kayakers and go out on the lake... Joy Hecht Arlington, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 7 May 1998, Bob Smith wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Sisler, Clyde <Clyde.Sisler_at_wang.com> > To: 'paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net' <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 6:31 AM > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Paddle Floats > > > > > > Previous posts show I'm very interested in the subject of > >rescuse, particulary self-rescue. This year I'll be studying up on 1 or > >2 of the simpler rolling techniques. I can't/won't risk getting water > >in my ears so I won't deliberately put my head under the water. I > >haven't found an ear plug/wax and bathing/diving cap combination to > >eliminate that problem to my satisfaction. The risk is minimial, but one > >I won't take deliberately. So I'm limited to the type/amount of > >practice I can do. > > > > My dumping technique is getting pretty good though. I can dump > >and not get my hat wet most of the time. :-) I think I can do some > >practicing without going all the way under, although if I recall from > >previous readings, head position is important. When I do take a real > >dump (and I will) I'll make a real attempt at rolling. > > > Clyde > You might consider ear plugs made from molds cast by an audiologist. They > are not cheap but they sound like the best solution for preventing water > from entering ears. I have to prevent getting water in one of my ears if at > all possible and have tried solutions that are probably similar to the ones > you have--without success. In a few weeks I am going for a set a molded > plugs and will then see how they work. > Bob > > that's what we bought for our daughter, who has a perferated eardrum, the earplugs from an audiologist... cost about $40, which is inexpensive in the grand scheme of things ;-) they are custom made/moulded from your ear. mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark----- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Remember, even if you win the rat race -- you're still a rat. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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