Apparently someone went offshore in a kayak, and figured they didn't need to wear their PFD. Yes, Gulf waters are warm, but you can still drown, especially if you are several miles from land, which apparently the guy was. Not sure what kind of kayak it was, or what other circumstances were involved. The Houston Chronicle reported that PFD and water bottle were attached to the boat. Check the news section: http://www.galvnews.com/ Richard Walker Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I could not find anything on that news section. Maybe you can provide the exact URL. Whatever that was, not wearing a PFD hardly is what kills a kayaker. A PFD just makes it easier to retrieve the body. If we just believe that a kayaker was lost because he/she did not have a PFD on, then we will not learn anything from the accident. In general, any safety item is made to never be used. They just give an increased chance of survival to whoever gets in trouble, but not having a safety item is not what gets anyone in an accident. John Winters conducted a survey sometime ago that yielded very surprising results about how people perceive safety, and safety items. - Julio > > Apparently someone went offshore in a kayak, and figured they > didn't need to wear their PFD. Yes, Gulf waters are warm, but > you can still drown, especially if you are several miles from land, > which apparently the guy was. Not sure what kind of kayak it > was, or what other circumstances were involved. > > The Houston Chronicle reported that PFD and water bottle were > attached to the boat. > > Check the news section: > http://www.galvnews.com/ > > Richard Walker > Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Whatever that was, not wearing a PFD hardly is what kills a kayaker. > A PFD just makes it easier to retrieve the body. > > If we just believe that a kayaker was lost because he/she did not > have a PFD on, then we will not learn anything from the accident. In this particular case, I disagree completely. The waters the guy was paddling in were over 80F, and literally team with offshore platforms and boats. If he was wearing a PFD, he'd be alive right now. Whether alive in the water, or alive on shore no one can know. Reading an update on the story, posted to CanoeTX, the man's body has been identified, and the kayak is apparently one he rented here in Seabrook; probably at the same place I first rented one last year. Boggles the mind, here I've spent close to a year getting ready to punch through the surf zone off a Texas beach, and some brain damaged person willy-nilly rents a SOT kayak and takes it out through some of the roughest surf of the year. Probably caring nothing but the PFD strapped on the rear deck, and a waterbottle between his legs. Richard Walker Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > In this particular case, I disagree completely. The waters the guy > was paddling in were over 80F, and literally team with offshore > platforms and boats. If he was wearing a PFD, he'd be alive right > now. Whether alive in the water, or alive on shore no one can know. > I still do not find the article mentioned. It is probably protected by a subscriber's password. However, the PFD's used by kayakers are type III; they will not keep an unconscious person's head out of the water. Even more, a type III PFD does not keep a conscious non-swimmer's head out of the water, which I have learned by experience trying to teach non-swimmers to not be afraid of the liquid medium. The problem with this accident, as with most, is that no one was there to see what actually happened to the victim. Most accident reports just say that a person was found floating, or the boat without the victim with a PFD under the deck. While many assumptions can be made, no one will ever know what really happened. If I am wrong, someone please paste the article in text, and send it to the list for evaluation. Back to PFDs, If you read the label of a new PFD carefully, you will notice that it is indicated for situations in which help is readily available, which means no more than 5 minutes. Here goes a question for all paddlers in this list. Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished without a PFD? Just to clarify my point, I am not saying that PFD's should not be used. PFD's are very valuable to help rescuing victims, and it is a good idea to wear them all the time. But I refuse to believe that the lack of a PFD is the cause of any fatality, specially in regards to type III's. - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Here goes a question for all paddlers in this list. > Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished > without a PFD? No, not yet. But it is possible. I can not swim 5 miles without rest or fins. I can swim 1 mile fairly easily in virtually any condition. In the event of no rescuing service, with a PFD (or for that matter a pool noodle) and compass, I can survive situations that I could not hope to survive without. And this particularly kayaking incident, at this particular location, is *exactly* that kind of situation. Now, like you mentioned, had he been unconcious, survival, even with PFD, would be unlikely; but I doubt that was the case. Most probably, he capsized, was unable to get back on with the wave action, lost his grip on the boat, and drowned while trying to chase his boat being blown away from him at high speed. > Just to clarify my point, I am not saying that PFD's should not be used. > PFD's are very valuable to help rescuing victims, and it is a good idea > to wear them all the time. But I refuse to believe that the lack of a PFD > is the cause of any fatality, specially in regards to type III's. Question: What PFD would you recommend then for warm water use? Richard Walker Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > Here goes a question for all paddlers in this list. > > Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished > > without a PFD? Yes, I have been in such a situation and would probably have been killed. I mentioned it here before but it probably bears repeating. I was sea kayaking in New York City and got pinned against a low bridge by a fast moving current. I was suddenly moved from a sea kayaking situation to a classic whitewater peril, a strainer. My very stable boat flipped like a tossed coin. I wet exited (I don't roll but rolling is pretty impossible against a strainer). I came up on the upstream side and immediately the current tried to push me under my boat and into the entanglement of old shopping carts and dangling rebars under the bridge. It was only by virtue of having my PFD on was I able to keep myself from being sucked under by the current. They would have been no chance to don the PFD in this situation were to I have had it on the deck or in the cockpit. And no amount of strong swimming would have gotten me away from the immediate danger as I could not have built enough moment to swim clear. So you just never know when you need your PFD. So better to wear it all the time even in fairly calm situations. Up until my accident, the water had been as smooth as glass and shorelines were just 50 feet or so away at most, the kind of conditions that may tempt one to take off a PFD in a false sense of security. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Several people have recognized that would not be reading this lines had they not worn a PFD in some close call. In all cases the important message is not "wear your PFD all the time", which should be out of the question, but what to do to prevent such close calls from ever happening again. In our present context, from what others tell about the incident, it seems clear that the reason of this person death is not the lack of a PFD, but a series of gross errors --almost all accidents everywhere can be traced by a series of mistakes, not a single cause. This person decided to swim instead of signaling for help. In fact there was a witness who could have summoned help faster than expected. He got himself in a situation far beyond his skills; coming out of the boat is in many instances a very bad idea. Etc, etc. I am not even convinced that this person would have survived with a PFD. When exhaustion hits, even the deepest instinct of survival disappears -- been there. happy paddling, and keep yourself out of trouble, - Julio > > So you just never know when you need your PFD. So better to wear it all > the time even in fairly calm situations. Up until my accident, the > water had been as smooth as glass and shorelines were just 50 feet or so > away at most, the kind of conditions that may tempt one to take off a > PFD in a false sense of security. > > ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 11:41:31PM -0700, Julio MacWilliams wrote: > In all cases the important message is not "wear your PFD all the time", > which should be out of the question, but what to do to prevent such > close calls from ever happening again. No, that *is* the message. (It's certainly mine, and I'm one of the people who responded, so "in all cases" is dead wrong.) There's no reason not to have your PFD on all the time -- which is what I do, by the way, and I'm on the water 300+ days a year under all sorts of conditions -- including multi-hour racing workouts in the middle of the day during the summer. With a properly-fitting PFD appropriate for the conditions, it's not in the least inconvenient or uncomfortable. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio, Am I missing something here? Exhaustion is exactly the situation where a lifejacket would be most helpful! It is true that most adult lifejackets (unlike good children jackets which have a bouyant "cape" to float you right side up) will not necessarily keep turn you the right way if you are unconcious. However, when a person is exhausted, a good life jacket will definitely keep his head above water, and allow him time to rest. Similarly, in very cold water, when a person cannot feel or move his limbs anymore, the lifejacket will also serve this function (that is until he dies of hypothermia). Aren't these the main reasons for wearing lifejackets in the first place? Julio wrote: > I am not even convinced that this person would have survived with a PFD. > When exhaustion hits, even the deepest instinct of survival disappears > -- been there. > > happy paddling, and keep yourself out of trouble. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > No, not yet. But it is possible. I can not swim 5 miles without rest > or fins. I can swim 1 mile fairly easily in virtually any condition. In Trying to swim to shore is in most cases, the last think a wise mariner would want to try out. The key is to conserve heat an energy, and to remain in the same place so that you are easy to trace. > > Now, like you mentioned, had he been unconcious, survival, even > with PFD, would be unlikely; but I doubt that was the case. Most > probably, he capsized, was unable to get back on with the wave > action, lost his grip on the boat, and drowned while trying to chase > his boat being blown away from him at high speed. Which would be the actual cause of the accident: trying to chase a boat instead of relaxing and waiting for help. Even in cold water, that is in most cases the only option. > > Question: What PFD would you recommend then for warm water > use? > > Richard Walker > Houston, TX I would recommend the inflatable collar PFD so popular among sailors, or even a type II PFD, which is specifically designed to bring the victim's head out of the water (regardless of whether is 90% or 20% efective in acomplishing that). - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > Here goes a question for all paddlers in this list. > Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished > without a PFD? > > Just to clarify my point, I am not saying that PFD's should not be used. > PFD's are very valuable to help rescuing victims, and it is a good idea > to wear them all the time. But I refuse to believe that the lack of a PFD > is the cause of any fatality, specially in regards to type III's. > > - Julio I think to be accurate you would have to also ask how many of us have died with and without PFDs and look at the ratio of survivors to stiffs, wearing and not. I'll take mine with a compass, some aerial flares and a mirror (guy's got to look his best) in the pockets please. I don't refuse to believe it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 02:40:41PM -0700, Julio MacWilliams wrote: > Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished > without a PFD? Yes. > Just to clarify my point, I am not saying that PFD's should not be used. > PFD's are very valuable to help rescuing victims, and it is a good idea > to wear them all the time. But I refuse to believe that the lack of a PFD > is the cause of any fatality, specially in regards to type III's. Then you need to read any of the multiple volumes of Charlie Walbridge's River Safety Reports, which are available from the ACA. The lack of a PFD is clearly the primary cause of *many* fatalities. (Including the two bodies that I assisted in searching for on the Lehigh three years ago.) ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
R. Walker wrote: > > Whatever that was, not wearing a PFD hardly is what kills a kayaker. > > A PFD just makes it easier to retrieve the body. snip > Boggles the mind, here I've spent close to a year getting ready to > punch through the surf zone off a Texas beach, and some brain > damaged person willy-nilly rents a SOT kayak and takes it out > through some of the roughest surf of the year. Probably caring > nothing but the PFD strapped on the rear deck, and a waterbottle > between his legs. > Richard Walker > Houston, TX _______________________________________________________________________ Well that willy-nilly person was not necessarily brain damaged since the news article reports that he just started working for the District Attorney's office, having recently graduated in the top third of his law school class. Do kayak rental companies not bother to query patrons on their experience? Did they not know how rough the waters were at this time of the year and explain so for the sake of precaution for the welfare of it's rental patrons and make certain that they must wear a PFD as a rental condition? What exactly is the liability of a boat or kayak rental company in such a context? In Canada, (Alberta at least) an owner of a hotel bar or cocktail lounge has been given (by law) some legal responsibility concerning the quantity it's patrons drink where driving is involved. Moreover, you don't want to be caught in a boat without wearing a PFD by the RCMP. Are boat rental companies not liable in any way for their rental customers? Are there not laws in Texas that require recreation boaters to wear PFD's? We had a guy drown in from a canoe overturning in the river on Canada Day while trying to gain an advantage to view the night time fireworks. The guy was not wearing a PFD and the police didn't even bother to search for his body that night. They found it several days later many many miles down river.The two other people in the canoe survived because they were wearing PFD's. It appears that the Galvaston victim was not as educated as they report. Do they not teach common sense in law school besides common law? Being that the USA is the most litigious society on earth I would not be surprised if someone did make a case out of this unfortunate and unnecessary death. It's obvious stupidity kills! I am persuaded that if every person that wanted to buy or rent a kayak, had read Matt Broze's & George Gronseth's book, there would be fewer fatalities altogether because they might then be somewhat more aware if not educated. If kayak rental personnel read the book they might be more selective in reserving their right to who they rent to. I hate to read about anyone drowning but especially drowning from stupidity. Anyone have any commentary to offer about rental companies? regards, Philip "The eye refuses to see what the mind does not know." [Deepak Chopra] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> top third of his law school class. Do kayak rental companies not > bother to query patrons on their experience? Did they not know > how rough the waters were at this time of the year and explain so > for the sake of precaution for the welfare of it's rental patrons On water conditions, and kayak rentals. Most kayaks rented in Seabrook are used in some extremely well protected bay waters. The outside water conditions are basically irrelevant to the water condition of Clear Lake, Mud Lake, and Armand Bayou which are the names of the most likely kayaking spots. Even Galveston and Trinity bays are protected to a certain extent. It is also true that our bays are notoriously shallow. ie lots of chop, but no such thing as a tall wave. It probably never crossed the renters mind that this guy would take the rental kayak and head offshore, especially considering the surf conditions ahead of this front. On "time of year"; this is actually *the* time of year to do offshore kayaking in Texas, but you have to time it with the fronts. Ahead of the fronts, we get S and SE winds and big surf; but once the front passes, the N and NW winds flatten the near shore gulf like glass. I've seen Galveston island with absolutely no wave action; though that extreme is pretty rare. Ripply water is not so rare this time of year. The only bad thing about this is you have to paddle back in against the wind, which can be tiring if you've spent the day diving or trolling. > and make certain that they must wear a PFD as a rental > condition? How do you tell someone to put on their PFD when they are twenty miles away, and 2 miles offshore? > What exactly is the liability of a boat or kayak rental company > in such a context? > Moreover, you don't want to be caught in a boat without wearing > a PFD by the RCMP. Are boat rental companies not liable in any way > for their rental customers? Are there not laws in Texas that require > recreation boaters to wear PFD's? We had a guy drown in from a canoe No. Texas law says you have to have one approved PFD per person aboard. Only minors are required to wear them. Texas law is not designed to protect adults from their own stupidity. > Being that the USA is the most litigious society on earth I would > not be surprised if someone did make a case out of this unfortunate > and unnecessary death. Might, but who could you sue? No deep pockets are involved. You can be dirt poor and have a storefront in this area. One look at the shops financial records and any civil attorney would drop the case like a rotten stingray. > to who they rent to. I hate to read about anyone drowning but especially > drowning from stupidity. Anyone have any commentary to offer about > rental companies? Guy walks in: "I wanna rent a kayak." Clerk: "Ok, where you headed?" Customer: "Just out fishing in Dickinson bay" Clerk: "Ok, thats $45, pfd, paddle, boat inclusive." ... Later that afternoon... Customer puts boat in off Galveston Island, and heads offshore, no where near the protected waters of Dickinson bay. So exactly what good does the screening process do? Richard Walker Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
R. Walker wrote: > any commentary to offer about > > rental companies? > > Guy walks in: "I wanna rent a kayak." > Clerk: "Ok, where you headed?" > Customer: "Just out fishing in Dickinson bay" > Clerk: "Ok, thats $45, pfd, paddle, boat inclusive." > ... > Later that afternoon... > Customer puts boat in off Galveston Island, and heads offshore, no > where near the protected waters of Dickinson bay. So exactly > what good does the screening process do? > > Richard Walker > Houston, TX ______________________________________________________________________ Thanks Richard for your comments, you sure make sense to me! I just now remembered an event when I was 10 years old on vacation out in White Rock BC. Having rented a small dory for five bucks my desire for adventure and fun saw me taking my niece and I out on the ocean well west from that ocean pier. Innocent and naive I rowed out past the break water rocks and soon discovered the power of the ocean and sensed the surging potential peril of the pounding surface against those rocks. I vividly remember laboring on the oars to get that plug of a dory back around and behind into calmer waters. I remember how glad we were as I made it back. Needless to say I was really scared when I discovered the size of the waves and the struggle I was having. A first time experience with the ocean at age ten. Funny how I had forgotten all about that experience until just now. The owner at the boat rental shop found out from a returning fishing boat and sternly rebuked me when I returned the boat. So I can easily identify with the vulnerability of a rental shop owner. There are always prevailing circumstances which point to the choices the individual makes. But we were wearing our PFDs' because the owner made us wear them. Thinking back, I should have been spanked for that one. As adults we are supposed to know better. If that Galvaston lawyer-kayaker wasn't suiciding himself he was surely committing stupidity in the first degree. Thanks again for your post. regards, Philip *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Attorneys / common sense is really a debate thats way outside the list charter here my friend. That said, in my couple years o renting, I never went to a place that did not mandate PFD's. Actually, I finally bought one that actually fit cause all they semed to have were for the "height challenged" amongst us.. Course, that doesnt mean he didnt chuck it as soon as he left he beach! Scott "Bobbin" just North of Cuba *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Not to wear a helment is a very Deadly Choice! http://www.alliance.net/~jame/tbi/tbistats.htm There are 2 million Traumatic Brain Injuries each year (One every 15 seconds). 500,000 of these injuries require hospital admission. Every 5 minutes someone dies from a head injury: 140,000 people each year. 75,000 - 100,000 in the U.S. Over half of the deaths occur at the time of the incident or within two hours of hospitalization. Every 5 minutes someone becomes permanently disabled due to a head injury. 70,000 - 90,000 of those who survive will have lifelong disabilities. 2,000 more will live in a persistent vegetative state. Over 50% of those who sustain a Brain Injury have been intoxicated at the time of injury. The cost of Traumatic Brain Injuries in the U.S. is over $48 Billion each year! CAUSES 51% - Motor Vehicle Accidents ===================================== Always wear a helment in your car... and if your car is on a ferry, wear your PFD. ==================================== bye bye bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Philip Wylie wrote: > R. Walker wrote: > <<<< Anyone have any commentery to offer about rental companies?>>>>>> > > > > > "The eye refuses to see what the mind does not know." > [Deepak Chopra] > **************************************************** > ********************** Kia Ora, Here in New Zealand reputable operators belong to an organization called SKOANZ. They will not rent a single kayak by itself to their customers.You must be with two people renting two boats, and most,may be all operators ,will insist that the customers watch a Video demonstrating assisted re-entree among other things. Two people can rent a double (Tandem ?) and a video for self rescue with that boat is also shown. Their guides are qualified.PFD's are compulsary by law. enjoy life, Eddie. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/7/98 1:26:29 AM EST, pjwylie_at_planet.eon.net writes: << I hate to read about anyone drowning but especially drowning from stupidity. Anyone have any commentary to offer about rental companies? >> Did he have enough information to judge his skill level against conditions? Its not his stupidity but his ignorance that put him in the water. If you want to be mean spirited you can call it arrogance. The guy pushed the envelope "looking for adventure." We all do that. I have been in a similar situation having to swim in though winter surf on the Washington coast, its not fun. I did have a PFD on. How about a moment of silence for a follow human bearing who died kayaking....... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> I could not find anything on that news section. Maybe you can > provide the exact URL. Try (as one continuous line)... http://www.galvnews.com/NF/display?REC=0009028+DBNAME=daily.news+TEM=template.html+ssiuname=WebOSTTN+ssipwd=TTN5B593D4D Or go to the URL Richard gave and click on "NEWS" in the left hand marging ( http://www.galvnews.com ) Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>From Tuesday's Houston Chronicle: James Schofield, a Harris Country prosecutor, drowned in Galveston Bay on Saturday. His body was recovered near Stewart Beach at 10 am Sunday. Schofield was 31 years old. His kayak was found Saturday at 5 pm near the Seawall and 39th Street. A life jacket was tied to the boat. -- Stephen Swaney sswaney_at_neosoft.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
wrote: >Here goes a question for all paddlers in this list. >Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished >without a PFD? -------------------------- Possibly. (I assume it's ok to admit to something stupid (ok, make that REALLY stupid) here): I was canoeing down a fairly flat, but moderately swift and very COLD river (fed by melting snow in the mountains) in Washington state in the winter. I was wearing fleece and polypro-type stuff (ie no dry or wet suit), but did have on my PFD (type III). In the process of trying to dodge a log sticking out of the water, I got out of sync with the paddler in the front, and tipped the canoe. Although I consider myself a fairly strong swimmer, the swiftness of the river made it very difficult to get to the shore, especially with rapidly failing muscles (due to the freezing water). I'm guessing that I was in the water for maybe 5 minutes (??). The PFD helped by letting me rest just a bit between efforts to swim to the shore and by reducing my fears of drowning a bit (a not-insignificant point, IMHO), and probably held a little of my upper body heat in. If I had had to worry about staying afloat as well as swim with all my might towards the shore, I might not have made it. Evan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/6/98 3:29:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rww_at_mailbox.neosoft.com writes: << Now, like you mentioned, had he been unconcious, survival, even with PFD, would be unlikely; but I doubt that was the case. Most probably, he capsized, was unable to get back on with the wave action, lost his grip on the boat, and drowned while trying to chase his boat being blown away from him at high speed. >> An eye witness reported the paddler being so far off shore that he appeared as a mere speck on the horizon. That and the fact that he was paddling a rented boat leads me to the conclusion that the problem here is really not one of whether or not he was wearing a pfd, but yet another case of an uninformed, inexperienced person going way beyond their limits with rented equipment. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> An eye witness reported the paddler being so far off shore that he appeared > as a mere speck on the horizon. That and the fact that he was paddling a > rented boat leads me to the conclusion that the problem here is really not one > of whether or not he was wearing a pfd, but yet another case of an uninformed, > inexperienced person going way beyond their limits with rented equipment. Agreed, that would be about 1-2 miles out, probably. Its real easy to get that far out in a kayak and not realize you've gone from screwing around in the surf, to navigating in the open ocean. And with our very drawn out, moderate surf zone, its easy not to notice. We don't have big waves here, but they start breaking *way* out from shore, and keep breaking all the way in. You could be 1000yds out and still have the same kind of breaking waves you see 50 yds out. Also, the water clarity is very much the same for several miles offshore. And its not like the place the guy rented from is on open water. Normally, the folks that rent kayaks in Seabrook have them sitting out on a completely flat water lake that is connected by a series of bays to saltwater. I wonder if he even told them what he had in mind..... [Add to this the article in Sport Fishing on the use of kayaks to fish offshore, and I suppose I shouldn't be surprised some clueless person decided to just go rent a boat and see if he could get out to the rigs.] Richard Walker Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The PFD discussion always brings out a lot of hot debate. This past year I have been carrying an inflatable PFD and am impressed with them for a number of reasons. 1. Mine seems amazingly comfortable and cause absolutely no binding in the armpit area. 2. They provide lots of ventilation in hot weather. 3. Putting them on in an emergency if you haven't been wearing it seems easy for most people. 4. They will float you with your head up. I could not get my head to stay under with mine inflated no matter how hard I tried. 5. They provide more flotation that typical kayaking PFD. 6. They need not be inflated and that can make self re-entry easier than with normal PFD that I find bulkier. 7. The CO2 inflation is quick and apparently reasonably fool proof. The oral back-up is there if all else fails. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The PFD discussion always brings out a lot of hot debate. This past year I have been carrying an inflatable PFD and am impressed with them for a number of reasons. 1. Mine seems amazingly comfortable and cause absolutely no binding in the armpit area. 2. They provide lots of ventilation in hot weather. 3. Putting them on in an emergency if you haven't been wearing it seems easy for most people. 4. They will float you with your head up. I could not get my head to stay under with mine inflated no matter how hard I tried. 5. They provide more flotation that typical kayaking PFD. 6. They need not be inflated and that can make self re-entry easier than with normal PFD that I find bulkier. 7. The CO2 inflation is quick and apparently reasonably fool proof. The oral back-up is there if all else fails. Julio wrote; > Here goes a question for all paddlers in this list. > Have any of you ever been in a situation where you would have perished > without a PFD? I have been in situations where I would have perished even with a PFD. Does that count. Rich wrote; >Then you need to read any of the multiple volumes of Charlie Walbridge's >River Safety Reports, which are available from the ACA. The lack of >a PFD is clearly the primary cause of *many* fatalities. (Including the two >bodies that I assisted in searching for on the Lehigh three years ago.) I think the Coast Guard reports the primary cause as the event or events leading up to the accident. They also list secondary and tertiary causes. They provide the report with the additional information of whether a PFD was worn or not. It may not be easy to determine the actual primary cause in this case. I suspect it was lack of experience although a coroner's inquest may reveal other factors like alcohol or a lack of proper cautions on the part of the company renting the boat. For 1996 12 percent of all drownings reported wore life jackets. In other words, a life jacket increases your chance of survival but does not guarantee it. This may be the reason why the Coast Guard does not list it as a proximate cause of drowning. In 85% of fatalities the operator had no reported boating education. The file can be obtained at http://www.uscgboating.org/stats.html Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
John mentioned the inflatable PFD's in a conversation we had earier. I will reiterate my thoughts at the time. I don't trust things with moving parts. I am sure the CO2 cartridge is pretty fool proof, but it is more likely to fail than a chunk of closed cell foam. At least with the foam a cursory inspection will reveal any problems. You can't test the cartridge. If the cartridge fails you can use the oral inflation tube, which again is probably pretty reliable, but if you are thrown in the water you often have other things to worry about such as grabbing your paddle before it blows a way or chasing down your boat when it does get out of reach. The last thing you want to deal with is inflating your PFD. The PFD should be there as your first and most reliable defense in the event of a wet exit. It should not be just one more thing to worry about. Airplane pilots may use the things but they probably need to get regular inspections that civilians won't bother with. Once the PFD is inflated it is bulkier than a standard one and you will probably want to deflate it before paddling much further and then you will have to orally reinflate it if you don't have any spare cartridges next time you get thrown in. You can now get very comfortable PFDs which don't bind and have decent ventilation. If you want more buoyancy, you can always wear both since the inflatable does not take up much space. Besides a foam PFD can be used as body armor if you are ever attacked by a Ninja while out on the water. Nick At 7:55 AM -0400 10/7/98, John Winters wrote: >The PFD discussion always brings out a lot of hot debate. > >This past year I have been carrying an inflatable PFD and am impressed with >them for a number of reasons. > >1. Mine seems amazingly comfortable and cause absolutely no binding in the >armpit area. > >2. They provide lots of ventilation in hot weather. > >3. Putting them on in an emergency if you haven't been wearing it seems >easy for most people. > >4. They will float you with your head up. I could not get my head to stay >under with mine inflated no matter how hard I tried. > >5. They provide more flotation that typical kayaking PFD. > >6. They need not be inflated and that can make self re-entry easier than >with normal PFD that I find bulkier. > >7. The CO2 inflation is quick and apparently reasonably fool proof. The >oral back-up is there if all else fails. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks c/o Newfound Woodworks, 67 Danforth Brook Rd, Bristol, NH 03222 (603) 744-6167 Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ >>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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