Dear Friends: As my kayaking abilities have improved (I only started in November), I have begun to think about buying a boat. I am learning about design and reading a lot, particularly on Paddlewise. My ONLY experience has been in the NDK Romany Explorer 18 (I hope to paddle many other boats this summer when I will be on the US West Coast). People who paddle these and other British boats are extremely chauvinistic about them; they are characterized as high-end, high-performance, the most durable, the most seaworthy, and the only boats worthy of the accomplished paddler. They do not use rudders; a skeg maybe. My club, in planning a trip to Alaska, will only use British boats. Many things have been nagging at me regarding these boats. It is my understanding (I do this with the utmost humility in this forum, please...), that these boats tend to be sportier; by this I mean that they are: Narrow (& tippy), relatively fast, good tracking (slow to turn) low volume (less windage/less cargo), snug-fitting (more control/less comfortable) & extremely durable (& heavy) all of which adds up to an extremely seaworthy craft that requires effort and skill to pilot and enjoy. While American boats tend to be: Wide (& stable), slower, maneuverable (poor tracking) higher volume (more cargo/more windage, loose fitting (more comfortable/less control) & light (but somewhat fragile) all of which adds up to a very comfortable craft for gentle waters that requires little skill to pilot and none to enjoy. (The above characterizations are those of a Paddlewiser who back channeled me a while ago -- he remains anonymous since I have not asked his permission to post his comments.). In looking on the WWW for places to rent kayaks, I have seen that most places really require very little in the way of proof of skills from clients. There are places that offer tours in kayaks with no experience at all. Now, in the NDK boat I have learned on, I would NEVER send someone out except on the most placid of lakes. I would not put them on the sea. But could it be possible that (some?) American kayaks (I'm talking about singles) are SO stable that one could send someone out in the chop with no problem? Now, IF this is true, that American kayaks are more stable, WHO NEEDS BRITISH KAYAKS? If we are so concerned with safety, why have a tippy boat at all? I THINK I know the answer to this: is it that the skilled paddler will enjoy a "sportier" boat more because it is simply more fun (and not really less safe in the hands of a skilled paddler)? Is the following analogy correct: A skilled driver would much rather drive a Porsche than Mack truck, although the truck is certainly better in an accident and more stable on the road? Please excuse any crass generalizations about British vs. American; it may be that many American boats have these "British" characteristics. If so, I'd appreciate a list of which boats do. All the best, Josh in Israel (who has his first rolling clinic tomorrow, and is hopeful that he will be able to, but trying to be disappointed if he can't) ============================================================================== Dr. Joshua Teitelbaum, Research Fellow Tel: [972] 3-640-6448 Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and Fax: [972] 3-641-5802 African Studies Tel Aviv University Ramat Aviv, Tel Aviv 69978 Israel E-mail:teitelba_at_ccsg.tau.ac.il www.dayan.org ============================================================================== *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joshua Teitelbaum wrote: Joshua, The Romany is a fine boat, but I think you have way over generalized in your assertions, > > It is my understanding (I do this with the utmost humility in this forum, > please...), that these boats tend to be sportier; by this I mean that they > are: > Narrow (& tippy), relatively fast, good tracking (slow to turn) low > volume (less windage/less cargo), snug-fitting (more control/less > comfortable) & extremely durable (& heavy) all of which adds up to an > extremely seaworthy craft that requires effort and skill to pilot and enjoy. The Romany is not as narrow or as tippy as lets say a Nordkapp, another British boat. NOr as tippy as many American boats such as some Current Designs (I believe the Solstice and Extreme perhaps?), some Boreal designs, as well as many others I presume. The American boat design I am building is 2" narrower and longer than the Romany and will probably be tippier. When I went for training some time back, one of the students was paddling a Current Designs rental and seem to tip every new stroke attempted until exchanging with the instructor's Romany. The shorter Romany(a very common one here) is not a particularly fast boat, I have no problem paddling faster than many friends who have it in my plastic Dagger Baja (very similar specs as the Romany,round hull, 1/2" wider beam and 6" shorter though waterline length could be similar). I think that the volume thing is really varied from boat to boat as I have seen Valley/NDK boats with rather large volume as well as American low volume boats. Snug fitting is something that every boat should be personally outfitted for. My shape generally requires much change in any cockpit outfitting. Foot pegs had to extend 3 inches from the furthest setting and about 1.5" of shaped foam on either side of my hips- my kayak is designed for a medium size person and I am a bit of a distorted medium... Durability is depending what sort of stresses are exerted. I would want a light craft for falling off a car top or off garage hooks, heavier for some sea obstacles. I most prefer a woven cloth lay-up no matter the weight to a 'felted' fiberglass lay-up, one of the reason I am making one. I presume that there are very few of the higher quality American kayaks shipped overseas due to high exchange rates currently and this probably allows these assumptions to proliferate overseas. I am not particularly nationalistic and really like many of the British boats, but think that it is far more complex then the generalities you expressed. It was a good question though and will prompt much good discussion I am sure. by the way, whenever I use American I mean North American. best to you Joshua. gabriel -- : : Gabriel L Romeu : http://studiofurniture.com furniture from the workshop : http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR life as a tourist, daily journal : http://users.aol.com/romeugp paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Josh (& list), Though I refuse to re-open the Brit. vs. Am. yaks, skeg vs. rudder, and a few other debates which get regurgitated about every other day here, I will take on the tippy vs. stable argument, plus a few other knickknacks. The comments follow what you wrote. (And Jackie, if you're reading; I'm going to include Josh's post because I do believe it is important for the other readers to understand where he's coming from, his background and skill level) Joshua Teitelbaum wrote: > > Dear Friends: > > As my kayaking abilities have improved (I only started in November), I have > begun to think about buying a boat. I am learning about design and reading > a lot, particularly on Paddlewise. My ONLY experience has been in the NDK > Romany Explorer 18 (I hope to paddle many other boats this summer when I > will be on the US West Coast). People who paddle these and other British > boats are extremely chauvinistic about them; they are characterized as > high-end, high-performance, the most durable, the most seaworthy, and the > only boats worthy of the accomplished paddler. They do not use rudders; a > skeg maybe. Correction, Josh. PWer Doug Lloyd uses a rudder on his Nordcapp, along with a couple / few(?) other PWers with Brit boats. > My club, in planning a trip to Alaska, will only use British > boats. Many things have been nagging at me regarding these boats. > > It is my understanding (I do this with the utmost humility in this forum, > please...), that these boats tend to be sportier; by this I mean that they > are: > Narrow (& tippy), relatively fast, good tracking (slow to turn) low > volume (less windage/less cargo), snug-fitting (more control/less > comfortable) & extremely durable (& heavy) all of which adds up to an > extremely seaworthy craft that requires effort and skill to pilot and enjoy. > > While American boats tend to be: > Wide (& stable), slower, maneuverable (poor tracking) higher volume (more > cargo/more windage, loose fitting (more comfortable/less control) & light > (but somewhat fragile) all of which adds up to a very comfortable craft for > gentle waters that requires little skill to pilot and none to enjoy. > > (The above characterizations are those of a Paddlewiser who back channeled > me a while ago -- he remains anonymous since I have not asked his > permission to post his comments.). > > In looking on the WWW for places to rent kayaks, I have seen that most > places really require very little in the way of proof of skills from > clients. There are places that offer tours in kayaks with no experience at > all. Now, in the NDK boat I have learned on, I would NEVER send someone > out except on the most placid of lakes. I would not put them on the sea. > But could it be possible that (some?) American kayaks (I'm talking about > singles) are SO stable that one could send someone out in the chop with no > problem? > > Now, IF this is true, that American kayaks are more stable, WHO NEEDS > BRITISH KAYAKS? If we are so concerned with safety, why have a tippy boat > at all? > > I THINK I know the answer to this: is it that the skilled paddler will > enjoy a "sportier" boat more because it is simply more fun (and not really > less safe in the hands of a skilled paddler)? Is the following analogy > correct: A skilled driver would much rather drive a Porsche than Mack > truck, although the truck is certainly better in an accident and more > stable on the road? Let me begin by redefining "Brit" boats as tippier boats (whether they come from Europe or N. Am.) and "American" boats as stable boats (same goes). Next, let me strip the two independent concepts of "sporty" from tippy. Is a tippy round bottom flat water racing shell (at 19'6"Lx14"B-at waterline) considered sporty? Other than going faster than stink in a straight line, "No", it is not sporty. Sporty includes a "fun" amount of maneuverability. Is a planing hull WW boat sporty (at 7'Lx26"B)? You bet ya, it is! But it's nowhere near tippy on flat water! So let's drop "sporty" and just talk tippy. Bear with me as I recount my own beginnings in sea kayaking as I believe it will a) provide an answer to your question about the questionable need for tippy boats, and b) will give you the experience which you missed by learning in a tippy boat, albeit 2nd hand. My first kayak, bought about 8~9 years ago was a Necky Skeena. At 16'Lx24"B with semi hard chines, it had what would pass today as moderate to high stability. It was a stable enough boat that I often used it to fish from. With most of it's flat hull zone right under the seat and narrow enough hull contours leading up to it, it was fairly fast and sprinted well. Coupled with fairly low windage (when the rudder was down), it made the boat fun for flatter water. The boat was easy enough to set on edge to really carve the turns, though offered enough resistance that this did tend to wear me down by the end of a 20 mile paddle. The biggest problem with that stable boat was that as a fledgling sea kayaker, I was beginning to find myself in bigger, more exposed waters more often and that wide flat hull area under seat would force the Skeena to ride up the face of beam seas at the same angle as the waves. Sure, I could edge the boat into the waves, but I had to force it which proved tiring over just a few miles in beam seas. Looking around at new boats, trying out friends', etc., I found that those tippy, round hull boats did not ride up the face of (beam) waves like this. In fact, the narrower, rounder, and lower volume the hull, the less apt the yak was to follow the wave's contour in beam seas. The on the water feeling of this came (almost) closing my eyes paddling a beam sea and knowing that the wave passed under NOT by feeling the hull roll up as the boat rode up the wave, but instead, by feeling one hand dip deep on a stroke, the other side nearly catching air...a brief teeter and reactive mini brace over the crest...followed by the opposite hand burying deep on the stroke as I drifted down the other side of the wave. That tippy boat handled beam sea waves about as gracefully as a fish. So; with tried & true sea kayak designs, figure that: The more stable a boat is on flat water, the tippier it will get in beam seas. And vice versa. The tippier the boat is on flat water, the less affected it will be by beam seas. "WHO NEEDS BRITISH KAYAKS? If we are so concerned with safety, why have a tippy boat at all?" The kayaker who finds him or herself in rougher water at some point, will benefit from a tippy boat in those conditions. Given good enough skills to handle the tippy boat's instability, coupled with the tippy boat's narrow beam, the tippy boat paddler will benefit on flat water, too. > Please excuse any crass generalizations about British vs. American; it may > be that many American boats have these "British" characteristics. If so, > I'd appreciate a list of which boats do. Eddyline Falcon (from what I understand - haven't paddled, yet) Necky Arluk II, Looksha II & III (Canadian) Mariner (check w/ Matt or website for models) a few others which aren't coming to me right now, which could be Brit. Heavy Duty equivalents in various aspects. All of the above are hard shell kayaks which can be seriously knocked around and will stand up to the abuse. > Question: > > I have seen boats described as having a "hard chine." Can someone define > this for me? Is it that the hull and the deck meet at a sharp angle, > instead of a rounded corner, and that a hard chine, as opposed to a soft > chine, refers to how sharp this angle is? No, that's the boat's gunale (some PWer correct my spelling, please, and I sincerely promise to enter it correctly into spell-check). If you flip the boat upside down and look at the hull shape only, best seen from the bow or stern, it will appear roundish / semi flattened through the seat area on the Romany. Or it will appear be sharp edged where the sides of the hull meet the bottom of the hull on the (Brit.) Anas Acuta. Those side to bottom edges or corners are the chines. The sharper, more pronounced those corners are, the harder the chines. The rounder or lacking those corners are, the softer the chines. > Secondly, does a hard chine > give greater secondary stability, allowing for easier leans? Yes, hard chines provide "training wheels" at a stop, a small flat area under each cheek of the seat to lean onto for initial stability, as well as a "wall" to lean on when the yak is tipped way over, the secondary stability being about maxed out when the chine to gunale plane matches the plane of the water surface. Hard chines do not allow for easier OR tougher leaning, though. That is determined by the amount and distribution of volume out to the sides, below the boats bow to stern spin axis. Once again looking down the boat's inverted hull, draw an imaginary hull shape line around the (hard or soft chined) hull which balances the volume lost by knocking off the corners (chines) with the volume gained by running over the flatter hull planes. Now study that shape which you've drawn. The narrower it is at the bottom of the hull, the easier the boat will lean or edge (= tippier). The wider it is at the bottom of the hull, the tougher it will be to edge or lean (= more stable). Put into practice, Maligiaq Padilla's Greenland boat (with its butt cheek vise hull profile) is a tippier, easier to edge and lean boat than my friend's planing pancake hull profile WW playboat. > Finally, is chine pronounced (in English) as it would be in French (e.g., > "sheen"), or is it pronounced like Chin[a]? Speaking for only the American-English speaking community, the "i" is long as in China. > Josh in Israel > (who has his first rolling clinic tomorrow, and is hopeful that he will be > able to, but trying to be disappointed if he can't) Best of luck and remember to _r_e_l_a_x_. Neck like a noodle, Josh, neck like a noodle. Vince *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vince Dalrymple wrote: > No, that's the boat's gunale (some PWer correct my spelling, please, and > I sincerely promise to enter it correctly into spell-check). > Correct spelling is gunwale, pronounced gunnel. gotta get off this computer and go for a paddle in the rain! Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vince Dalrymple wrote: > No, that's the boat's gunale (some PWer correct my spelling, please, and > I sincerely promise to enter it correctly into spell-check). Dave Seng wrote: > Correct spelling is gunwale, pronounced gunnel. This area is alternately called the sheer. (I've sometimes seen it spelled shear, but I'm not sure that is correct). On boats with an angled sheer, it could be called a gunwale. With a deck that smoothly curves into the hull, there really is no gunwale, so sheer would probably be most appropriate. On canoes, the upper edge of the hull (usually banded with wood or bent or extruded metal) is always a gunwale. Shawn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Dave Seng [correctly] wrote: > > Correct spelling is gunwale, pronounced gunnel. Then it was incorrectly stated: > This area is alternately called the sheer. (I've sometimes seen it > spelled shear, but I'm not sure that is correct). > > On boats with an angled sheer, it could be called a gunwale. With a > deck that smoothly curves into the hull, there really is no gunwale, so > sheer would probably be most appropriate. On canoes, the upper edge of > the hull (usually banded with wood or bent or extruded metal) is always > a gunwale. I believe the two things are really distinct. Technically, the gunwale was (is) a particular piece of wood on a wooden sailing vessel -- it was (is -- I hesitate to use past tense because there are some fine builders still building the traditional way) the upper most plank. The term has come to be used also for an upper piece on a composite or plywood boat, as well -- a piece that runs *along the sheer.* The sheer is not really a "part" of the boat, but an aspect of its design. Specifically, its the line of the boat *at* the gunwale, or where the gunwale might be on boats that don't have a gunwale (most kayaks, I would think). Some boats are said to have "reverse sheer," meaning the curve rises in the center, rather than at the ends. . . . . Sorry. These things actually are important to me, in my rather boring existence. . . Mark L *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for the correction Mark. While my nautical knowledge is somewhat confined to small boats, I find sailboat (and all boats in general) terminology fascinating--by all means, carry on! What's boring to one is an endless source of entertainment to another. The boring people are all those folks who aren't interested in boats! ;) Shawn "Sailboat Restorations, Inc." wrote: > . . Sorry. These things actually are important to me, in my rather boring > existence. . . > > Mark L *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Josh - and group - I can't identify at all with the generalizations about "British boats" and "American boats". In particular, I think the concept that American boats are wide and therefore "stable" (whatever **that** is!) and therefore potentially safer is just plain dangerous. I think there is some danger of drifting too far off into generalizations which don't have any basis in fact. Different boats suit different people. Wide boats are not all "stable". "Narrow" boats do not all have limited carrying capacity. Wide boats are not more seaworthy *because they are wider*. There is no reliable way to safely put a newcomer on the ocean in any boat, without proper preparation and supervision. But perhaps more important than any of the above is that there are many excellent sea kayaks made in America and many others made in Britain (or Germany, or Australia or Argentina, etc etc...) which will be safe and will be tremendous fun for the novice paddler on protected ocean waters - with proper preparation and supervision. I said a "novice" paddler - not a "beginning" paddler. I said "with proper preparation and supervision". There's no trick to this. Safety and fun depend on recogizing one's capabilities, getting appropriate training, paddling with people who have good judgment and are dedicated to enjoying the sport safely. They do not depend on choosing a boat made in a specific place, or a boat of a specific shape. (Yes, yes, yes....some boats are more fun than others, for me - but that varies from person to person. A boat that I love, you might hate - and vice versa. I speak as an intermediate level paddler, not as an expert or anything near to an elite paddler.) Having said all that, I'll confess that the first sea kayak I bought, about 7 years ago now, is a NDK Romany 16. I loved the boat the first time I paddled it, and I've never had a reason to change my mind. It's still my favorite boat for most uses. As a novice sea kayaker I paddled it on the ocean in conditions up to Bft 3 - with proper supervision. As a (very low-level) kayak expeditioner, I've taken the boat on trips of 5 days' length, and it holds all I need with room to spare. When I've taken trips with a group, I borrow a Romany 18 (now called the "Explorer") and with that I can carry all my gear as well as a lot of communal gear and a "Groover" or "Boom-box". I'll always be happy to palm the Groover off to someone with a nice wide American-made boat. Any takers? <G> Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I need to chime-in in disagreement with the generalizations. Each boat needs to be evaluated on its own. There is no performance criteria that can be accurately predicted by looking at the flag decal on a kayak. There are stable and slow British kayaks. There are tippy and fast North American boats. There are British boats perceived as rugged which are very poorly built. There are rugged N American boats. The British do not own a monopoly on any particular performance criteria. What the British boats have is very effective marketing. Good marketing does not require the best product. Windows is fat, slow, and unstable when compared to the Mac OS, but it had better marketing. If you call something "high performance" often and loud enough, people will start to believe you. Even if some British kayaks deserve the designation, that does not keep some N American boats from being equally deserving. It is also important to remember that a design which is suitable for the conditions in one place may not be the best design for different conditions. Boats suitable for working close to shore in short, steep chop will probably be poorly adapted for open water in large, long swells. Nick At 11:35 AM +0200 5/14/00, Joshua Teitelbaum wrote: >Dear Friends: > >As my kayaking abilities have improved (I only started in November), I have >begun to think about buying a boat. I am learning about design and reading >a lot, particularly on Paddlewise. My ONLY experience has been in the NDK >Romany Explorer 18 (I hope to paddle many other boats this summer when I >will be on the US West Coast). People who paddle these and other British >boats are extremely chauvinistic about them; they are characterized as >high-end, high-performance, the most durable, the most seaworthy, and the >only boats worthy of the accomplished paddler. They do not use rudders; a >skeg maybe. My club, in planning a trip to Alaska, will only use British >boats. Many things have been nagging at me regarding these boats. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St, Suite I Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ >>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:40 AM 5/15/00 -0400, Nick Schade wrote: >I need to chime-in in disagreement with the generalizations. Each boat >needs to be evaluated on its own. There is no performance criteria that can >be accurately predicted by looking at the flag decal on a kayak. There are >stable and slow British kayaks. There are tippy and fast North American >boats. There are British boats perceived as rugged which are very poorly >built. There are rugged N American boats. Ah, but the one place where Brit boats are undeniably superior is CHARISMA. Let's be honest. Take the Nordkapp, for example. This is an old design that many people will admit has some deficiencies compared to more modern boats -- even Doug has modified his to the point where it's scarcely recognisible. But pull into a parking lot full of kayakers with a Nordkapp on top of your car and most people are going to think that you're a kayaker that's a few cuts above the norm. That'll put those jokers with those plastic boats in their place! ;-) What's more important -- form or substance? -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joshua wrote; > Dear Friends: > (Major SNIP) What a shame so much misinformation has become part of the "Common Wisdom" . "Narrow" does not necessarily mean "fast", "tippy", "sporty", "low volume", etc. etc. etc. Nor does "British" mean "fast", "tippy", "sporty", "low volume", etc. etc. etc. Wide does not necessarily mean "Slow", ""stable", "high volume", etc. etc. etc. nor does "American" mean "Slow", ""stable", "high volume", etc. etc. etc. Most importantly none of this means "seaworthy" either more or less. Skilled (and unskilled) paddlers will enjoy the boat that satisfies their needs and requirements. These requirements don't always match the requirements (or prejudices) of a BCU (or ACA or CRCA or whatever) trainer. I think you will serve yourself best by seeking out the boat that: Has enough storage for YOUR gear plus a treat or two for when you become down. Has the stability characteristics that keep YOU comfortable in the boat even at the end of a long day. Has a reasonably low resistance at YOUR cruising power output when loaded. Has the maneuverability and directional stability to match YOUR skill level and ambitions. Has a cockpit that fits YOU even if you have a bigger (or smaller) butt than the average Englishman. Comes from a builder with a reputation for quality. Comes in a color YOU will still like next year. Stirs YOUR soul. Etc. Etc. Etc. but not necessarily in this order of importance - well, excepting the YOU part that always comes first. Ignore the boat's national origins whether American, British, Italian, Polish, German, Greenlandic, French, Canadian, French-Canadian or Tibetan - unless, of course, you consider national origin more important than good sense in which case........... When you find yourself up to your butt in trouble the ocean will not calm while Poseidon rises from the ocean to ask you about the national origin of your boat. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi John and All, > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of 735769 > > > Skilled (and unskilled) paddlers will enjoy the boat that satisfies their > needs and requirements. These requirements don't always match the > requirements (or prejudices) of a BCU (or ACA or CRCA or > whatever) trainer. Thank you John for providing a voice of sanity and reason. When I used to sell boats I was often asked what do you paddle. I was constantly explaining that wasn't relevant, and trying to steer the question back to "how do you paddle" or "how do you want to paddle" or "how do you think you'll paddle". Everyone needs to buy the boat best suited to _their_ needs. Happy Paddling to All in whatever craft makes you happy! Rob Cookson "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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