Mind you they were pretty good rides, the biggest if not the best I've ever had in a kayak. I think kayaking has turned me into a 'the glass is half full' guy, because today was not the best of days, but I find it hard to complain. However, I will explain... Showed up at San O at about 10 this morning and decided to go whole hog--bought an annual pass for $125. Got to the kayak zone and got the last parking spot in the area. The beach was crowded, but there were only about 3-4 kayakers surfin' the OK zone. As I'm putting on my gear, I realize my helmet is broken! Don't know how it happened, but a big hunk was missing from the side. Too much money and time to get here, so I'm going out anyway. Waves were a little bigger today than they've been on my other two visits and getting through the white water was tricky. I headed outside for the big waves where it's deeper in hopes of saving my brain cells from any collision. Catching a wave today wasn't much of a decision-if you were in the right spot, you found yourself traveling down a steep wave face and the ride was on. The waves were steep enough that I had to lean back to keep from purling, but when the wave broke, my low volume rear end would start to dive bringing up my nose and making me almost lose the wave. Had to do a little sea-sawing till I was fully up to speed in the white water. Great ride. Coming back out for more the main weakness of my boat got me again. The bow jets over the white water, but the stern lacks volume and I find myself flipped upside down. A failed roll left me swimming to shore. Of course, without my helmet, my prescription sunglasses although on with a strap became another price of admission. Not fun to have to make a long swim after just your first ride, especially when the carnage didn't happen from the ride! I rested a bit and went out for more. I didn't really like being out without a helmet, so I decided just to take one more big ride into shore and call it a day. It didn't take long before I was on another big wave and heading into shore. Because of the rocky shoreline and shore break at San O, I like to wet exit off shore a bit and walk in, but I thought I'd try a bit of roll practice before heading out. That's when I discovered the big crack in my paddle blade, probably from my attempt at an extended roll in my earlier swim. So that was it for the day. I wonder if perhaps my misfortunes are nature's way of telling me I'm kayaking a bit too much. It's clear from the state of my house I'm ignoring some chores. It seems if I'm not kayaking, I'm recovering from kayaking and the house has suffered. I'm not dumb though, I sprayed the whole front lawn with RoundUp so I won't have to mow that for a while. I tell people I'm waiting for the perfect time to resod!!! Well, I think I'll take a break from kayaking at least till Monday and improve my karma with some home sweat equity. Besides, I can't have too much fun without a helmet. So on the day, two great rides vs. $125, a broken paddle and helmet and lost sunglasses. I still feel I came out even. Might be time for an extra night job to finance this hydronomic endeavor. Anyone know of any openings for kayak videographer with a modicum of writing talent? That's the problem, neither do I. Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark... if you had a cracked paddle and a broken helmet, you're not paying attention somewhere. :) Great story. Is San O. the site of the nuclear plant at San Onofre? Do they have any 3-eyed fish a-la the Simpsons? And can we all assume that the best surfing beaches in California now come with a price of admission? Jeez. I can't imagine Annette having to pony up $125 to watch the boys surf. Maybe Walt paid. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
San Onofre is a State park, so I guess my $125 now gets me into all the State parks. It's $10 just to go for the day. $10 for parking seems like about the going rate to park at most of the beaches around here, but you can find free exceptions if you don't mind walking a bit. Not a lot of beaches allow kayak surfing though, I don't think. Yes this is the nuclear plant. Haven't seen any strange fish, I just hope I don't start growing a third eye. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net]On Behalf Of Craig Jungers Mark... if you had a cracked paddle and a broken helmet, you're not paying attention somewhere. :) Great story. Is San O. the site of the nuclear plant at San Onofre? Do they have any 3-eyed fish a-la the Simpsons? And can we all assume that the best surfing beaches in California now come with a price of admission? Jeez. I can't imagine Annette having to pony up $125 to watch the boys surf. Maybe Walt paid. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
on 6/7/07 09:39, Mark Sanders at sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com wrote: -bought an annual pass for $125. Got to the kayak zone... Hi Mark, Sorry for mu naivety, but what are you paying for with this charge? And, what is a "kayak zone"? Cheers JKA -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John, The beach at San Onofre is part of the California State Park system, so the fee just gets you entry to the park. If I understand correctly, my pass should get me into all the state parks that charge admission. Out here that would be most of them! The beach at San O is a very popular surf spot that butts right up against a nuclear power plant! While board surfers can use the whole area, kayak surfers are limited to a small southern part of the beach closest to the power plant. There is a strategically placed sign that reads OK when you are in the proper area and KO when you wander north out of your zone. Here's a link to more info if you'd like to check it out. Welcome to my world... http://www.sopsa.org/index.htm Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net -----Original Message----- From: John Kirk-Anderson Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] 2 Rides--$125 Hi Mark, Sorry for mu naivety, but what are you paying for with this charge? And, what is a "kayak zone"? Cheers JKA -- John Kirk-Anderson Banks Peninsula NEW ZEALAND *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> While board surfers can use the whole area, kayak surfers are limited to a > small southern part of the beach closest to the power plant. There is a > strategically placed sign that reads OK when you are in the proper area > and > KO when you wander north out of your zone. Here's a link to more info if > you'd like to check it out. Welcome to my world... > To be fair to California, it's the only state park with a designated kayak area. I would have no complaints about it if it was fair, as in, we get that spot, but really it just means we can't go elsewhere, which sucks. Because when it _is_ good down there (and trust me, it's far from the best spot on the beach) there are board surfers all over the place. But when it sucks, well, we're still stuck there and the boardies can go elsewhere. But it has created a friendly group of regulars, which is positive, and good for the sport. And it's a good spot to learn to surf, since the lineup is casual and the waves mostly mushy and slow. I mostly surf elsewhere, and in 5-6 years of kayak surfing VERY regularly, I've only had 6-7 people mouth of. And it's a rare day I go out when I don't have curious boardies asking questions about my boat, compliment a wave,etc. But I'm super courteous, don't hog all the waves, and SURF the wave, not bounce sideways through the line-up. If someone is paddling out, and I'm anywhere near them, I'll pull off the wave, or turn into the foam. That is always appreciated. Once they see you are courteous and in control, it's very rarely a problem. Geoff ____________________________________ Geoff Jennings (530) 852-4754 - geoff_at_texaskilonewton.com http://www.kimandgeoff.com/ "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Teddy Roosevelt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I think $125 is steep, but I wouldn't mind if I thought that's what it takes to maintain the park system. Instead, I think most of that money goes to fund a lot of other things that have nothing to do with recreation. On Thursday, although the beach was crowded, there were only a few boards in the kayak area. Quite a few boarders were bunched up right at the dividing line, so it seems some try to let us have our little niche. I agree the waves are very friendly to us newcomers to kayak surfing. I can't imagine getting hurt in the waves I've seen out there. I have heard it can get pretty gnarly at times. Maybe Geoff will share some of his secret surfing spots with us new guys! Mark Sanders -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Jennings [mailto:geoff_at_texaskilonewton.com] I mostly surf elsewhere, *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Maybe Geoff will share some of his secret surfing > spots with us new guys! When I worked in a shop in Orange County, we used to sell a fair number of the WS Kaos, SOT surf boat. Decent little boat, surfs OK, cheap, durable, good intro to playing in the surf. Since I was the most avid surf paddler, other employees would come get me when someone was asking about surf. I'd sell them a Kaos, and they'd ask "Where do you go surfing?", to which I'd respond, "Well, San Onofre is a great place to learn." It's not that I'm secretive about where to surf. I surf depending on conditions, swell angle, size, tides, etc. I surf a lot between Seal Beach and Newport Beach when in SoCal, especially now since I tend to be staying at my mother in laws house, but I'll drive for good waves. But I'll pretty much surf anywhere, and there aren't many secret spots, just look for the boardies! I have my favorites, but nothing secret. I just didn't want to sell some guy a Kaos, then paddle out the next morning at my favorite spot and find out he'd taken out three boardies and that kayaks were no longer "welcome". => I always encouraged people to take a class too, and in the class I stressed wave etiquette. I liked getting people in the class, it was my favorite to teach and meant I got out of the shop that day! Which is the other downside to San Onofre, a lot of the Wave skiers there think nothing of "party waves", dropping in on each other, and other behaviors that frankly, would get your ass kicked at other breaks. That's another concern I have about San Onofre. If paddlers think that behavior is OK, then go to other breaks and pull that stuff there, there WILL be issues, and I wouldn't blame the pissed off person, since that is frequently dangerous behavior. If I'm on a wave, and you drop in, and I'm faced with the choice of ending up on the rocks/reef, or a collision, I'm going to be annoyed. (not you Mark, just SanO paddlers generally) Surf etiquette developed for a reason, and many SanO paddlers have developed a unique, very relaxed version of it there, and I worry that that will create more issues at other spots. Hopefully not. And lest people think I'm down on SanO, I'm certainly not. On a solid south swell, that place is sweet. Really long rides on nice waves. I've had some solid, super fun sessions there. Mark, sometime when I'm down that way with some time to surf, we'll have to hook up. I'll put you in real surf boat! => Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> If I'm on a wave, and you drop in, and I'm faced with > the choice of ending up on the rocks/reef, or a collision, I'm > going to be > annoyed. (not you Mark, just SanO paddlers generally) Surf etiquette > developed for a reason, and many SanO paddlers have developed a > unique, very > relaxed version of it there, and I worry that that will create more > issues > at other spots. Hopefully not. > > Geoff I live on the East coast and like to kayak surf but not board surf. I was always clueless as to the reason for surf rules. Thanks for the explanation. Clears things up. I tend to stay/play much further out than the board surfers simply because I can and it eliminates tensions. I'm just a dad and really would feel silly fighting on the beach over anything anymore. Plus I would likely lose. I am going to introduce my 11 yr old daughter to board surfing soon. Her sense of balance and adventure is pretty amazing. This should really open my eyes quite a bit to a new world. My wife wants to try kite boarding but I think we missed that window of opportunity. Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 7/7/07, James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: > > I live on the East coast and like to kayak surf but not board surf. I > was always clueless as to the reason for surf rules. Thanks for the > explanation. Clears things up. The lineup is an interesting place. Congregated, you'll find the skilled and the unskilled, the courteous and the rude, the mild tempered and the totally crazies. The majority of good etiquette starts with the personal decision whether or not to paddle out. If you misjudged your skills for the current conditions or crowd, the results are not good. Definitely, not fun. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:33 AM 7/7/2007, John Kirk-Anderson wrote: >on 6/7/07 09:39, Mark Sanders at sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com wrote: > > >-bought an annual pass for $125. Got to the kayak zone... > >Hi Mark, > >Sorry for mu naivety, but what are you paying for with this charge? I deleted Marks answer so will use this post to comment. We have a similar annual pass for access to all New York State Parks, except our "Empire pass" costs $59. I have bought one several times since we've got about a half dozen State parks within a 10 mile radius of where I live. There are 147 state parks for which the pass will provide free entry. John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sorry to nitpick, John, but $59 to access 147 state parks doesn't sound like free to me. Let's double check with the Cornell Math Dept. Live free or die. Brad Crain Quoting John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>: > At 01:33 AM 7/7/2007, John Kirk-Anderson wrote: >> on 6/7/07 09:39, Mark Sanders at sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com wrote: >> >> >> -bought an annual pass for $125. Got to the kayak zone... >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Sorry for mu naivety, but what are you paying for with this charge? > > I deleted Marks answer so will use this post to comment. > > We have a similar annual pass for access to all New York State Parks, > except our "Empire pass" costs $59. I have bought one several times > since we've got about a half dozen State parks within a 10 mile radius > of where I live. There are 147 state parks for which the pass will > provide free entry. > > > > John Fereira > jaf30_at_cornell.edu > Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:09 PM 7/7/2007, Bradford R. Crain wrote: > Sorry to nitpick, John, but $59 to access 147 state parks doesn't sound >like free to me. Let's double check with the Cornell Math Dept. I don't recall claiming the Empire pass was free, nor did Mark when referring to the pass he bought. Our state parks are quite nice and I suspect that maintaining them is not a volunteer effort. My state taxes are already pretty high so I would prefer to pay a nominal fee that will allow me to go to any of them rather than pay higher taxes regardless of whether I even step foot in any of them. I've worked at Cornell for ten years and I'm not sure I even know where the math department is located. >Live free or die. >Brad Crain > >Quoting John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>: > >>At 01:33 AM 7/7/2007, John Kirk-Anderson wrote: >>>on 6/7/07 09:39, Mark Sanders at sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com wrote: >>> >>> >>>-bought an annual pass for $125. Got to the kayak zone... >>> >>>Hi Mark, >>> >>>Sorry for mu naivety, but what are you paying for with this charge? >> >>I deleted Marks answer so will use this post to comment. >> >>We have a similar annual pass for access to all New York State Parks, >>except our "Empire pass" costs $59. I have bought one several times >>since we've got about a half dozen State parks within a 10 mile radius >>of where I live. There are 147 state parks for which the pass will >>provide free entry. >> >> >> >>John Fereira >>jaf30_at_cornell.edu >>Ithaca, NY > John Fereira jaf30_at_cornell.edu Ithaca, NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Jul 7, 2007, at 11:24 AM, John Fereira wrote: > I don't recall claiming the Empire pass was free, nor did Mark when > referring to the pass he bought. Our state parks are quite nice > and I suspect that maintaining them is not a volunteer effort. My > state taxes are already pretty high so I would prefer to pay a > nominal fee that will allow me to go to any of them rather than pay > higher taxes regardless of whether I even step foot in any of them. Parks used to be free but that all started changing some years ago. Does anyone remember the details of that change? Paul Montgomery paul_at_paddleandoar.com http://paddleandoar.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paul Montgomery wrote: > Parks used to be free but that all started changing some years ago. > Does anyone remember the details of that change? CA Measure 13, an initiative which limited the millage rate for property taxes began this belt tightening in California. Maybe about 1980 or so. I paid to enter a county park east of LA, in 1983. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/9/2007 6:23:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com writes: San Onofre is a State park, so I guess my $125 now gets me into all the State parks. It's $10 just to go for the day. $10 for parking seems like about the going rate to park at most of the beaches around here, but you can find free exceptions if you don't mind walking a bit. Not a lot of beaches allow kayak surfing though, I don't think. Yes this is the nuclear plant. Haven't seen any strange fish, I just hope I don't start growing a third eye. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the reasons I moved from CA was that the government culture treats you like an ATM machine with an unlimited pass. As for surfing, localism is not nearly as defined as in CA. Our most crowded break in Westport we can go anywhere we'd like. However, if we go to the jetty, with usually the best breaks, it is more crowded. I don't need that. When I do surf that area I have to be much more careful as there are a lot of neoprene seals in and out of the water. But it's easy to change directions on a surf kayak. I've heard some comments from the boardies -Take that thing to the river-but maybe I've heard it 3 times in the last several years. Not much actually. Cheers, Rob G ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/9/2007 6:23:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com writes: San Onofre is a State park, so I guess my $125 now gets me into all the State parks. It's $10 just to go for the day. $10 for parking seems like about the going rate to park at most of the beaches around here, but you can find free exceptions if you don't mind walking a bit. Not a lot of beaches allow kayak surfing though, I don't think. Yes this is the nuclear plant. Haven't seen any strange fish, I just hope I don't start growing a third eye. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, San Onofre is one of the only beaches where Surf Kayaking IS restricted. It is more restrictive to kayak surfers than most spots. Unless there is a blackball flag flying, in which case board surfers aren't allowed either, there is no law or regulation that prohibits kayak surfing at other beaches. Generally, if board surfing is allowed, then kayak surfing is. Santa Cruz tried to pass a restriction, but it failed. I've had board surfers tell me otherwise, and I basically offer that they are welcome to call the cops. One guy decided he'd go get the lifeguard, and the lifeguard told him he was full of it. At which point he threatened a friend of mine. The lifeguard was informed, and that board surfer was told he had the choice of leaving and not coming back, or being arrested. 3 board surfers who'd seen the altercation apologized to us for him being a prick. Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I've had board surfers tell me otherwise, and I basically offer > that they > are welcome to call the cops. One guy decided he'd go get the > lifeguard, > and the lifeguard told him he was full of it. At which point he > threatened > a friend of mine. The lifeguard was informed, and that board > surfer was > told he had the choice of leaving and not coming back, or being > arrested. 3 > board surfers who'd seen the altercation apologized to us for him > being a > prick. > > Geoff This is the part of the board culture I dont get. I had a nine year old boy who was a lone surfer amongst a large group of swimmers off Tybee Island give me a mouthful because I was standing in his way as I played with my kids in the surf. Nine years old! I gave him the long cool stare in return. Someone clearly taught this attitude to him. Why does it seem acceptable in the surf culture? Is the testosterone that thick? Is it barracks life revisited? Am I an old fart? Jim et al *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James Wrote>> Someone clearly taught this attitude to him. Why does it seem acceptable in the surf culture? Is the testosterone that thick? Is it barracks life revisited? Am I an old fart? >> I should reiterate, the VAST, VAST majority of board surfers I've paddled around are cool people. There are several I call friends. I've had 200 to 1 (or more) positive interactions over negative. A lot of them are curious, some think it's pretty cool. I've been stuck in the parking lot on numerous occasions, having board surfers checking out my carbon-kevlar boat. There are a few jerks, heck, there are a lot of surfers, and I'll bet that statistically, there is no higher percentage of jerks surfing than there are jerks in the general population. Waves however, especially good ones, are a limited resource, and as with any limited resource, it creates competition, and that brings the jerk in people out, if it's there. And there does seem to be a culture in surfing that says intimidation is OK. But I think the problem of kayakers versus surfers is overstated. People behaving in a manner perceived as dangerous (as many kayakers do!) is the problem. I've been out a few times when there were people in SOT or whitewater kayaks, bouncing sideways through the lineup, in the soup and completely out of control, and they scare me. Getting dropped in on by some very experienced waveskiers at SanOnofre scares me. But again, I think it's the behavior that's the problem, not the craft. Steve wrote>> Surfrider beach in Malibu does not allow kayak surfing at all. There are signs posted that say "no kayaks allowed". Other places, like Silverstrand in Oxnard, don't post no kayaking signs, but your car is liable to get keyed if you are on the water there, and the boardies will not hesitate to tell you to get lost. >> I stand corrected, I wasn't aware of the beach in Malibu. I can only speak from experience, I've surfed at many, many spots in southern and Northern California, for many hundreds of sessions over the last 5-6 years, and I think the problems and issues between board surfers and kayakers is feared more than it is real. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've seen out of control and disrespectful board surfers run off by other board surfers too. That's my point. Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Jul 9, 2007, at 1:09 PM, Geoff Jennings wrote: >>> > I should reiterate, the VAST, VAST majority of board surfers I've > paddled > around are cool people. There are several I call friends. I've > had 200 to > 1 (or more) positive interactions over negative. A lot of them are > curious, > some think it's pretty cool. And I should say that I am not anti-surfer. Just curious. Its a world I probably will never enter. Their world in other words. I am pretty good at slipping into new situations and fitting in and making friends. Surfing is something I simply missed the window on as I never lived next to the sea until now. But now is a bit too late to start surfing. Ill just kayak surf farther out and give them their space. They seem like a fun bunch. Jim *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, I was a board surfer in Southern Calilifornia during the 1980's. Because there are a limited number of locations for good waves and many board surfers, basically all surfers hate all other surfers. But they just choose who to gang up on. The short boarders hate the long boarders, they all hate body boarders, and kayakers are so unusual in the surf, all three of those groups gang up on kayakers. I became so sick of the crowding, yelling and near fist fights as a board surfer, I quit the sport. Then when I discovered sea kayaking, it felt great to have the rest of the ocean to myself. The surfers just use that little sliver of ocean along the shore. I do kayak surf in Southern California, but I usually choose my spots away from surfers. I call it surfing the scraps, which is where the surfers don't care to go, usually at dumpy or rocky beaches, or beaches where access is difficult. I do surf the kayak zone at San Onofre, but I try to choose weekdays when not many people are there. If I'm in my sea kayak at San O' and it's busy, I'll surf the scraps, catching waves the waveskiers and surf kayakers skip, because even though they are holding a paddle, they hate sea kayakers in the surf. Even the waveskiers and surf kayakers hate each other. So much for laid back surfer dudes. Duane www.rollordrown.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Overpopulation In the surf On the roads On the planet Limited resources We will hate fellow kayakers when every beach we try to go to is occupied. There is private vs commercial "conflict" on the rivers of the USA and on the beaches in BC already On Jul 9, 2007, at 7:22 PM, Duane Strosaker wrote: > Because there are a limited number of locations for good waves and > many board surfers, basically all surfers hate all other surfers. > But they just choose who to gang up on. The short boarders hate the > long boarders, they all hate body boarders, and kayakers are so > unusual in the surf, all three of those groups gang up on kayakers. > I became so sick of the crowding, yelling and near fist fights as a > board surfer, I quit the sport. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Even the waveskiers and surf kayakers hate each other. So much for > laid back surfer dudes. > Duane > www.rollordrown.com Sorry Duanne, but I call BS on this. I've never heard a Waveskier talk crap about a Kayaker, or vice versus. G -- Geoff Jennings geoff_at_texaskilonewton.com 530-852-4754 "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." George Bush - Aug. 5, 2004 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 7/9/07, James Farrelly <JFarrelly5_at_comcast.net> wrote: > This is the part of the board culture I dont get. I had a nine year > old boy who was a lone surfer amongst a large group of swimmers off > Tybee Island give me a mouthful because I was standing in his way as > I played with my kids in the surf. Nine years old! I gave him the > long cool stare in return. Someone clearly taught this attitude to > him. Why does it seem acceptable in the surf culture? Is the > testosterone that thick? Is it barracks life revisited? Am I an old > fart? > Well... ya but that's beside the point. :) The culture at large is developing a "get out of my way" mentality. You can see it most frequently on the freeway where a car might tailgate you even though there is room to pass in another lane. I witnessed a guy in a Porsche with a windshield sign written mirror image (so as to show up when you look at his car in your rear-view mirror) that said, "SLOW CARS MOVE RIGHT". I was in front of him at slightly over the speed limit and he moved to within a foot or two of my rear bumper and flashed his headlights. I slowed down. :) Maybe that was the father of your little surfer dude. Craig Jungers Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Be careful out there. I've done that myself, but in Minnesota recently a teenager was killed on the highway for doing that. In that case, the tailgater responded by zipping around in front of the teenager's car and slamming on the brakes so violently he left skid marks. Trying to avoid a collision, the teenager went off the highway and rolled the car. There were four teenagers in the car, and one was killed. The perpetrator sped off. Chuck Holst > I witnessed a guy in a Porsche with a windshield sign written mirror image > (so as to show up when you look at his car in your rear-view mirror) that > said, "SLOW CARS MOVE RIGHT". I was in front of him at slightly over the > speed limit and he moved to within a foot or two of my rear bumper and > flashed his headlights. > > I slowed down. :) > > Maybe that was the father of your little surfer dude. > > > Craig Jungers > Royal City, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Actually, San Onofre is one of the only beaches where Surf Kayaking IS > restricted. Surfrider beach in Malibu does not allow kayak surfing at all. There are signs posted that say "no kayaks allowed". Other places, like Silverstrand in Oxnard, don't post no kayaking signs, but your car is liable to get keyed if you are on the water there, and the boardies will not hesitate to tell you to get lost. Steve Holtzman Southern California _____________ NOD32 EMON 2385 (20070709) information _____________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I read this on the San O kayaking website, which got me wondering about restrictions out there at other beaches. Perhaps someone can better explain section A to me. Nov. 1, 1996 1. The following lands and facilities within the Orange Coast District are restricted as follows: A. In accordance with the provisions of Section 4657, Launching Areas, of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, it is hereby declared that no person shall launch or beach a vessel or weigh anchor or cast off in any area of any beach within Bolsa Chica, Huntington, San Clemente, Doheny, and San Onofre State Beaches or Crystal Cove State Park. B. An exception to Article A is as noted herein that at San Onofre State Beach from the area known as "Dog Patch" extending to the southeast, launching or beaching of paddle assisted vessels (kayaks, surf skis, and wave skis) shall be permitted. No other vessels may launch or beach in this area. The boundary of the launch zone will be clearly marked by two signs visible from the water. -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Jennings [mailto:Geoff_at_texaskilonewton.com] Actually, San Onofre is one of the only beaches where Surf Kayaking IS restricted. Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess it all depends on how you define a vessel. I wonder what the legal definition of vessel is? I have launched and landed both surf kayaks and sea kayaks on every one of those beaches, except Doheny, and never had an issue. But I wasn't aware of that rule. Seems like a legal definition of vessel that would include a waveski and exclude surfboards would be pretty tough to write. Geoff >> A. In accordance with the provisions of Section 4657, Launching Areas, of Title 14, California Code of Regulations, it is hereby declared that no person shall launch or beach a vessel or weigh anchor or cast off in any area of any beach within Bolsa Chica, Huntington, San Clemente, Doheny, and San Onofre State Beaches or Crystal Cove State Park. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rcgibbert_at_aol.com wrote: > As for surfing, localism is not nearly as defined [here in WA] as in CA. > Our most crowded break in Westport we can go anywhere we'd like. > However, if we go to the jetty, with usually the best breaks, it is more > crowded. I don't need that. Rob's experience is similar to what you might see in OR, with most beaches "open" to whomever, with no restrictions of the official or surfcultural sort on who paddles where. OTOH, the premium, world class spots with narrowly defined takeoff zones are "policed" (waaay too nice a word) by the local boardheads as their turf, and nonlocals have a hard time becoming accepted, let alone folks in kayaks. For instance, I have never seen a surf kayak surf the point break at Seaside, OR's Cove. On the finance side, most OR State parks have an entrance fee of some sort for access to day use of the developed part, but no fee just to park and look at the ocean. As in CA, revenue shrinkage, some by voter fiat, some by the effects of the times, has diminished the jewel of Oregon State Parks. I might mention that, __by State law_, revenues at the gate to OR State Parks must stay within the coffers of the Parks system. Don't know if that is the case in CA, but parks are costly to run. I suspect you get your money's worth, particularly if you look at the other costs of our sport, the access fees are minimal. They could buy some political power, albeit invisible unless identified as coming from paddlers. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Back in the late sixties or early seventies we had the body surfers verses the board surfers wars in Newport. That was eventually solved with the institution of the "blackball" flag system. When the beach got too crowded with swimmers the lifeguards would raise the blackball flag (a yellow flag with a blackball in the middle of it) which meant that all hard boards had to leave the water. I can remember similar wars down at San Onofre before they established the "kayak zone." Once I was down there running a class when a burly boardie approached me and tried to start a fight right there on the sand! It was pretty ugly. Of course it was just a few of "them" causing all the trouble, but they were a persistent group. A letter writing campaign was began by the local paddlers which led to discussions with the park service and the kayak zone was the result. Like Geoff, I can't say that I am entirely happy with the outcome - but I guess it's better then getting beaten up :-) Several years ago I was on the sand between sessions down at San Onofre when I ran into an old high school buddy that I hadn't seen in twenty or so years. We were having a really nice chat catching up when it came out in the conversation that I was in a kayak. My buddy, a boardie, stopped in mid sentence and turned and walked away! He didn't want to be seen fraternizing with the enemy. :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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