A friend of mine has challenged me to a paddling race this summer. Any advice for me? The course will be a lake crossing, just over a mile in distance and usually subject to 15 mph headwinds with moderate sized waves. We will be paddling identical equipment. (Overflows -10foot ww boats, and River Passage paddles (P.O.S heavy, injection molded blades) He has a larger upperbody, fills the boat more, and is really fast. He mentioned that I should let him know of the date about 3 weeks before hand so that he can start training. I started last month. I have been biking longer and longer distances outdoors (I was challenged to a couple centuries this year also). Bicycling-wise I have been focusing on the sprint aspect of it. My goal is to develop the lung capacity for 20 minutes at full throttle. Any tips or ideas? Good suggestions so far have been to weight a couple milk jugs and drag them behind the boat during my pool sessions. I am trying to stress perfect paddle technique, I know my competition is a digger and splashes a lot. - yet his speed scares me. I appreciate all advice... Phil Huck thekayaker_at_yahoo.com huck_at_mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Phil Huck wrote (snipped): > > A friend of mine has challenged me to a paddling race this summer. > The course will be a lake crossing, just over a mile in distance and > usually subject to 15 mph headwinds with moderate sized waves. > We will be paddling identical equipment. (Overflows -10foot ww boats, > and River Passage paddles (P.O.S heavy, injection molded blades) > Bicycling-wise I have been focusing on the sprint aspect of it. My > goal is to develop the lung capacity for 20 minutes at full throttle. > Good suggestions so far have been to weight a couple milk jugs and drag > them behind the boat during my pool sessions. > I am trying to stress perfect paddle technique, I know my competition > is a digger and splashes a lot. - yet his speed scares me. > One of the big problems with an Overflow is going to be keeping it going straight. If you manage to track better, you may have an advantage over brute force. Not that you friend is a brute. Anyhow, practice doing your steering at the bow, and try to avoid needing to rudder. Be sure your paddle exits the water before it goes behind you. Also, even if you're using the same equipment, you can use it smarter. Moving the seat forward a little may help it track in headwinds. Try it out, because dragging milk jugs will keep you straight, and when you lose the jugs, the boat will feel really squirrelly. Good luck. Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
| I am trying to stress perfect paddle technique, I know my competition |is a digger and splashes a lot. - yet his speed scares me. |I appreciate all advice... Hmmm, I don't race per say but here is what I discovered... When I first got my kayak I was in the boat 2-4 times a week all summer long. One of my first questions was how far and how fast am I going. I could estimate fairly well but that was not good enough. So I got a Garmin 12XL GPS to answer my questions. Its the best thing I bought for the kayak to teach technique. Technique being how to go as fast as possible for as far as possible with the least energy burned. Going fast and far while minimzing energy use is all about paddling technique. Just very simple little movements could drastically increase or decrease my speed. For instance using to much leg in the paddle stroke would slow me down. I found if I was flailing the paddle in the water then I was wasting energy and going slower. For me, my paddle, and kayak there is a certain swish that the paddle should make going into and out of the water. There is also just the right amount of leg and torso rotation. To much and you go slower. I also have to angle the blade just so when it is being placed into the water. Splashing is bad. Splashing is wasted energy. For this kind of kayaking I use a high paddling position not a low greenland typeOhold. I use an unfeathered paddle and I angle the the entry blade into the water. It seems that the most efficient angle is maybe 30 degrees off the hull. Its more of a feel than anything else. I also have to keep up a high rate of strokes. This requires a great deal of concentration. I'll slow down if I stop concentrating on paddle entry and exit from the water as well as paddling rate. What I like to do is a 20 mile round trip. I measure my speed over an hour long time period. This averages out any differences with the GPS linking up to different Sats. At the hour, I stop for a food/water break and check how far I went. I just leave the GPS on during the paddle to see if I am slowing down. I usually can feel it in the seat of my pants but I just glance at the GPS to verify. To train correctly one most have some sort of speed measuring device. I have used all of my upper body and legs to try to sprint as fast as I can. What this has shown me is that I can easily overpower the blade. I can expend LOTS of energy but I'm not really going anywhere, I'm just moving water around. In fact I'm working at a rate that is so difficult that I can only keep the effort going for a few minutes. And I'm not going my fastest, I'm going slow. If the blade in the water is making noise then I'm overpowering the blade. Thats a pretty vague description of how I can "feel" the right technique. Its something one has to find for themselves. I'll give you some numbers. When I was in my best kayaking condition I could move over that 20 miles at the following speeds. 5.2 mph for the first mile, 5.1 for the second, then 5.0 mph and usually 4.8 at the last hour. I did this every Friday for the summer. This is on a large lake with usuall summer winds of 10-15 mph. Most waves are boat wake generated and will slow me down quite a bit. This last summer, I never was able to do the 20 mile trip. And the best one hour distance I had was 5.4 mph. But that was with a shorter paddle so I was able to increase my stroke rate. Considering I'm not in good kayak conditioning the 5.4mph was an eye opener for me. Because that was likely a good .5 mph increase by just changing to a short paddle shaft. I also found that being in the best kayak shape meant getting into the kayak. I have a regular excercise program of lifting weights and running. This really helps in many things but until I have been in the boat for a few weeks, my fastest speed will be in the 4.8 mph range. Being able to bench press N 100 pounds really has nothing to do with being able to paddle at my fastest rate. It certainly can't hurt but if I use that stregth to paddle I'm just wasting energy and splashing water. Cardio workouts absolutely help but the only time I get near a cardio limit is when sprinting and my muscles usually are the weak link. Sooo, my advice would be to get a speed measuring device, a shorter paddle if you use a high paddling position, and get in the boat and start putting in some milage! 8-) Hope this helps... Dan WhoReallyWantsToGoPaddlingAfterWritingThisButTheWaterIsToCold! 8-( *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am really wondering if so much specific paddling technique training will eventually help win a race. Here's my experience: A couple of weeks ago I did a "race" with a friend of mine. We had paddled for a few days on a camping trip, and were obviously dying to get back to the ranger station on the last day. We had both exactly the same boats (loaded with camping gear). We raced for 20 min, and indeed, because my friend had a slightly better start, he was about a boat length in front of me. But interestingly enough, this distance never changed over the 20 min race. I could keep up with him, but not overtake. Even though I was still able to put more effort into my paddling, it seemed that my boat just didn't want to go any faster. This made me wonder: is there a maximum hull speed for kayaks? I know there is a maximum hull speed for sail boats: at a certain point more wind, or more sail doesn't increase the speed anymore. If this also holds for kayaks, than at a certain point it doesn't help anymore to put more power into your paddling strokes because your kayak has reached its max hull speed. Which would mean that the race, when paddled with exactly the same equipment, can only be won by endurance: who can maintain max hull speed for the entire race? (or by making references to his sister ;-) Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:47 AM 02/18/2000 -0600, Peter van den Hurk wrote: >This made me wonder: is there a maximum hull speed for kayaks? >Peter Peter, Of course there is. It is figured by the same speed formula as for any non-planing hull. I forget the exact formula, but the rough approximation is about speed in kt = 1.6 * sqrt(waterline length in feet). For many sea kayaks that makes it around 6.4 kt. You have to be aware that effort doubles from 3kt to 4kt, and doubles again from 4kt to 5kt. Tiny speed increments above that result in fearsome increases in effort required. If you race on a lake or slough note that water depths are important too. Anytime the water is less than about 4x the depth of your keel, resistance increases. If you race close to shore and you are on the shallower side, you can increase the effort required substantially. Sometimes you have to balance this against the greater wind and waves and current further out. To me, the difference between 3 feet depth & 1 foot depth is like that between calm & 5 kt wind. jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You already got some great tips on technique so you will have to check them out. Strategy? This is a short race. Lets face it, 1 mile will be a full speed sprint. It sounds like you are training for the lung capacity but be sure to train your paddling muscles too. Otherwise the water jugs want to carry will feel like a piano. I am finding that a lot of sprint races are decided at the start. Someone will be out of the box first and this has a psyche factor (important in a short race) as well as just a shorter time for catchup-from-behind chances.. Go out in the boat and do some strong starts during every session. Really strong starts are all out and will feel like you have the boat on top of the water rather than in it (on plane). From a standstill just dig with efficient, strong, short strokes until you get up to and over your race speed. It should take about 100 yards. Then settle into your race rythem for the duration. At race day with luck you will be ahead immediately and the big guy will be in a panic, loose his technique and get sloppy. If he's ahead, settle into his track and draft him. I find it incredibly annoying when someone is drafting me he probably will too. While there, say something like "wow, did you see that fish" or "what a nice day" . One drafter once said "nice pace". I was at full steam, got psyched out and he was ahead of me within 1/4 mile. For safety, avoid references to his sister and things like that. Drafting puts you in a bit of a vulnerable position; If he slows abruptly you will be on his back deck in no time and it will probably be you that goes over. Suck plenty of air first so it sounds like your fresh and just coasting. He will again be aggrivated to the point where he puts on the brakes and you fly on by. So there are my junior strategist ideas. Now, where is this lake?? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Drafting puts you in a bit of a vulnerable position; If he slows > abruptly you will be on his back deck in no time and it will probably be you > that goes over ============= oh- no!! at a race a couple of years ago, a guy showed up who had heard that drafting was the thing to do. so he did just that behind 3 guys for 13 miles.... bumping at a rate of about once every 3 minutes for about 2 hrs. i had been first in his list to draft and found the bumping to be a pain, so i talked with another fellow about it during a work out a few weeks later. this fellow instructed me in the art of slowing, letting the fellow onto the back deck, and then listening to him go over... oh what a lovely sound as you paddle away. we don't really want to use that technique do we? certainly not. so my point is, if you'r going to draft.... learn to do it before race day... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Larry Bliven wrote: > we don't really want to use that technique do we? certainly not. > so my point is, if you'r going to draft.... learn to do it before race > day... The local rowing club, which sponsors most of the local sea kayak and surf ski races does not allow drafting. Local canoe races allow drafting. In one memorable race a singles paddler jumped on the side wake of a war canoe and rode their side wake for 80% of the race. Easily outdistancing everyone else, who missed getting on the war canoe wake. When the war canoe paddler tired he pulled away from them and easily won the race. When possible I wake ride, with some practice it's usually worthwhile. It's not always worthwhile, sometimes it's more effort to stay on the wake then to paddle in "clean" water. I've also had good luck teaching tired paddlers to ride my wake, or hide in my wind shadow to get a bit of a free ride. If you get tired every little trick can help. It doesn't apply to a lake race, which the original poster was planning to do, but for ocean and river races I've been surprised at how little most local racers pay attention to currents. A couple of years ago a 20 mile race started with a 4 mile paddle against the tide. My racing nemesis and I were paddling up the eddies behind boats, bridges and floats to avoid the current. I looked around and noticed that the vast majority of racers were dead center in the river fighting the strongest current. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kirk Olsen wrote > The local rowing club, which sponsors most of the local sea kayak and > surf ski races does not allow drafting. > we have 5-7 small event races here on the eastern shore of MD each year - about 16 boat classes. the races are linked by a point system, so the fastest paddler also wins an award at the end of the season. *drafting is permitted* There was an planning meeting a few weeks ago, from which a new class was defined - *TEAMS*. a team is any group of 4 paddlers that declare themselves to be a team before the race. awards will be presented to the fastest team. the team class opens up the idea of paddlers working together, both on the water during the event and also during training... it may also promote organized clubs to rally for bragging rights.... so we are testing an idea that grew out of observations of races organized by the Annapolis Rowing Club.... inject team spirit into kayak racing. we unorganized paddlers think that the clubs are whimps and still won't show up for races. :>) bye bye bliven *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
After you have a good endurance base in the boat, do one session of intervals per week. Intervals should be at max effort for 1 to 5 minutes per rep for up to10 reps, depending on what you're comfortable with. My best strength is in endurance, but my racing and ability to get off the starting line improved dramatically when I began incorporating intervals into my routine. Sometimes I do 10 sets of 1 minute intervals or sometimes I do 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 ladder. Don't overdue it at first. If you like gadgets, a heart-rate monitor is useful for telling how hard you are working. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, tompage wrote: > If you like gadgets, heck if you like gadgets, what could be better than a well tuned speedometer for your boat: http://www.dc.infi.net/~spdtech/aplski.html I've used one a couple of times and it works well. I haven't plunked down the cash for my own yet. A paddling crony has 2 of them. They're definitely fun to use, and you get painfully accurate results on how you are doing at that instant. > a heart-rate monitor is useful for telling how hard you > are working. I have a hard time paddling with my heart-rate monitor, it falls down around my waist when I'm paddling. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kirk Olsen wrote: > > heck if you like gadgets, what could be better than a well tuned speedometer > for your boat: > > http://www.dc.infi.net/~spdtech/aplski.html I ran into someone using one of the "surf" version of these last week. It has a rotating impeller with a permanent magnet in it and a pick up coil on the deck -- no wire between the impeller and the display. I'm told that one of the not-so-neat features of the surf version is that if you go under a bridge the display goes bonkers -- stray magnetic fields from electric power lines overwhelm the relatively tiny signal from the impeller. Bonkers ain't always bad -- how else can you get an indiation that you're doing 20+ knots in a sea kayak? -- ===================================== David A. Kiewit (727) 866 0669 voice/fax Website:http://patent-faq.com 5901 Third St., South St. Petersburg, FL 33705 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Kirk Olsen wrote: > > > > heck if you like gadgets, what could be better than a well tuned >speedometer > > for your boat: > > > > http://www.dc.infi.net/~spdtech/aplski.html I have used a Speed Tech speedometer for race training and found that it was very effective in helping to improve my stroke. Joe S *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
After all this good advice, it seems to me you are required to post the results! Pressure is on - you gotta win with all your Paddlewise buddies behind you. Natalie ----- Original Message ----- From: tompage <tompage_at_sarahleonard.com> To: Paddlewise <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Race Training. > After you have a good endurance base in the boat, do one session of > intervals per week. Intervals should be at max effort for 1 to 5 minutes > per rep for up to10 reps, depending on what you're comfortable with. My > best strength is in endurance, but my racing and ability to get off the > starting line improved dramatically when I began incorporating intervals > into my routine. Sometimes I do 10 sets of 1 minute intervals or sometimes > I do 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 ladder. Don't overdue it at first. > > If you like gadgets, a heart-rate monitor is useful for telling how hard you > are working. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/17/00 9:20:55 PM, dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com writes: << When I was in my best kayaking condition I could move over that 20 miles at the following speeds. 5.2 mph for the first mile, 5.1 for the second, then 5.0 mph and usually 4.8 at the last hour. >> OK, I'm impressed. Dan, what boat did you do this training in? Thanks in advance Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/17/00 9:20:55 PM, dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com writes: << When I was in my best kayaking condition I could move over that 20 miles at the following speeds. 5.2 mph for the first mile, 5.1 for the second, then 5.0 mph and usually 4.8 at the last hour. >> |OK, I'm impressed. Dan, what boat did you do this training in? |Thanks in advance |Jed Dont be! 8-) If I can do it so can anyone because it is NOT muscle strength that does it. And this is on a generally flat water, with maybe 6 inch waves. I have a Kevlar Necky Looksha IV. I think I can go faster if I had a shorter paddle with a larger blades to provide more grip in the water. My paddles are Aqua Bound, I think that is right, and are fairly light. I moved from a 240cm to a 210 or there abouts and got the .5 mph increase. My paddling store did not have a 210 shaft with wider blades which I think would have been faster still. I pretty sure the mph is correct because I did it numerous times over the same course measure with the GPS. The GPS can be wildly inaccurate speed wise when measured over a few minutes but over an hour time period the errors gets averaged out. Hopefully this year I'll be able to paddle more than last. Because I'm not in the kayaking shape to do a 20 mile trip at anywhere close to the rate I did the year before. It really is based on conditioning in the kayak and technique. Running/biking/stairs cardio work will help but I don't find my self slowed down by the old lungs and ticker. The muscles used to paddle will tire our first. These seem to be forarms and upper torso muscles. My lower back usually aches a bit from sitting but after a few trips they sturdy up and don't bother me anymore. Lifting weights in the gym helps getting the kayak in and out of the water but I don't think it really helps paddling fast or far. I only started the 20 mile loop just to see how far I could go in four hours. One of my dream paddles is to do the North Carolina Outer banks. So how far can I go in a day? Thats how I got started down this road. Then it just snowballed into can I do it faster? 8-) What if I did this? Or this? And I want a heart rate monitor! 8-) Hope this helps... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<snip> | Even though I was still able to put more effort into my paddling, it seemed that my | boat just didn't want to go any faster. This is my point about using some device to measure speed. Before I had the GPS I would expend ENOURMOUS amounts of energy to paddle fast. I PERCIEVED I was going fast because of my effort. I was wrong. I was just moving water around. I have enough strength to overpower the paddle but that does not make me move faster. There is a word begining with C use to describe what happens to props moving too fast in the water. Can't think of it after two days... Grrr.. In a sense this is what I mean when I talk about overpowering the paddle. I like to paddle at night for various reasons. One is that the lake is glass smooth. If I'm in the grove the paddle strokes make a certain sound as does the boat moving through the water. Its swish swish swish swish swish. The water moving around the hull has a tinkling sound punctuated with swish swish swish. 8-) If I hear SPLASH SPLASH SPLASH I'm wasting energy. I can see it on the GPS. I can feel it as my effort increases and my speed decreases. But it took the GPS to know what the feel meant. To put it another way. My wife and I took two people kayaking for the first time. The man was flailing at the water. Splashing water all over the place, getting tired and out of breath very quickly. He was moving no faster than the woman who was calmly just paddling along. He lathered up in sweat while she was nice and comfortable. This was on a 400 yard paddle from the put in to the other side of the lake. He was doing a few things wrong but mainly he was overpowering the paddle. I never could get him to calm down and paddle more smoothly. He was exhausted at the end of the trip and she was just fine. One was nice and smooth the other used to much muscle and hacked at the water. The Resident Boat Designer Dudes(RBDD) had a conversation about Hull Speed once so I'll let them answer that question. |Which would mean that the race, when paddled with exactly the same |equipment, can only be won by endurance: who can maintain max hull speed |for the entire race? (or by making references to his sister ;-) There is a effort/speed curve in all this. I can sprint the boat at a certain speed but the effort required to do this sprint is very high. I suspect that I'm past the hull speed at that point. I cannot keep up that level of effort for more than a minute or two. Then I rest. For awhile. 8-) I don't think someone, mere mortals, can really paddle the boat near/at/over hull speed, the RBDDs are going to get us on that term, for more than a few minutes.. If the race is a sprint that is one thing. I'm not sure it is possible if the distance is over a couple of miles. But that depends on what is "hull speed." Interesting..... Later... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com wrote: > I have enough strength to overpower the paddle but > that does not make me move faster. There is a word begining with C use to > describe what happens to props moving too fast in the water. Can't think > of it after two days... Grrr.. In a sense this is what I mean when I talk > about overpowering the paddle. The C word you were hunting for is probably "Cavitation". The word you wanted to use is ventilation. Ventilation is sucking air down behind the paddle causing to lose it's purchase on the water. Cavitation is caused by propellers going fast enough to cause a partial vacuum in the water. > To put it another way. My wife and I took two people kayaking for the > first time. The man was flailing at the water. Splashing water all over > the place, getting tired and out of breath very quickly. He was moving no > faster than the woman who was calmly just paddling along. He lathered up > in sweat while she was nice and comfortable. This was on a 400 yard paddle > from the put in to the other side of the lake. He was doing a few things > wrong but mainly he was overpowering the paddle. I never could get him to > calm down and paddle more smoothly. He was exhausted at the end of the > trip and she was just fine. One was nice and smooth the other used to much > muscle and hacked at the water. I do some racing, 6 or so races a year since having kids. Last year at a local 1.5 mile canoe race 2 of my friends, both 50 somethings, raced against 2 twenty year old well built guys. My friends beat them across the lake. Strength isn't everything. Technique counts a hell of a lot when paddling/racing. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com I was just >moving water around. I have enough strength to overpower the paddle but >that does not make me move faster. There is a word begining with C use to >describe what happens to props moving too fast in the water. I think the word you're thinking of is "cavitation", which is what happens when paddle or propeller blades create air bubbles on the boward side of the boat. I believe the lower pressure of the air vs. the water does decrease the propulsion efficency greatly, but I'll leave it to John W. or Matt B. or similar boffins to explain just why this is so. Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks to Philip and Kirk on giving me the word..... CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION CAVITATION Now that I've written it 10 times on our Virtual Board maybe I won't forget. I know the word but lately I keep wanting to put in an extra c and adding a p. Don't know why..... Thanks... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wow, thanks for the great insights into technique. Makes me drool for a GPS like the one I gave my son for Xmas. I bike and XC ski with a heart rate monitor. 162 beats/minute aerobic threshold on the bike, 172 on skis. I figure that the poling costs me 10 heartbeats. Checked heart rate paddling cruising speed does only cost about 10-heartbeats/min over sitting still. Very efficient. Same speed on foot takes about 30 beats over sitting. When just flailing at max 1-minute effort, my HR goes up to only about 140. Looks to me that better upper body vascularity would really help my speed. Of course, I am a cyclist and have no upper body. bob phillips In SE MI, where the water is too hard to paddle in and I want to try out my new bulkheads *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When drafting on the water, is it not better to be close to but off to the side so your boat is on the forward face of the other boat's bow wave? That position is preferred (depending upon wind conditions) when sailing and allows a smaller boat to stay with a larger one --particularly beating if you can get a safe leeward postion. bob phillips *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 18 Feb 2000 Phlopz_at_aol.com wrote: > When drafting on the water, is it not better to be close to but off to the > side so your boat is on the forward face of the other boat's bow wave? That's a tough wave to stay on without a good deal of practice. I do think it's the best choice, if you have the skills to make use of it. The stern wake is pretty good and it's easy to stay on. Plus there are several stern waves you can make use of as you close in on another boat. The stern waves are at about 1 boat length intervals. If you look closely you can usually spot 3 to 6 stern waves. kirk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Intervals, Intervals. YESS. many folks can bicycle at aerobic threshold for hours and be terrible racers. You have to be able to stay with the fast spurts that ripple through a racing pack. It has to be advantageous on the water, too. bob phillips *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've wanted a heart rate monitor to measure effort not only when kayaking but also during runs, wieght training, and torture sessions on the Dreadmill. A Dreadmill is a treadmill for those not into self torture! 8-) I find it much easier to run trails/street than to get on one of these things. But when it is cold out I don't have much choice.... |I bike and XC ski with a heart rate monitor. 162 beats/minute aerobic |threshold on the bike, 172 on skis. I figure that the poling costs me 10 |heartbeats. What is "aerobic threshold?" Is that maximum heart rate? |Checked heart rate paddling cruising speed does only cost about |10-heartbeats/min over sitting still. Very efficient. Same speed on foot takes about 30 beats over sitting. I would have guessed that to be the case but its nice to know. Later... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<SNIP> |If you race on a lake or slough note that water depths are important too. Anytime the |water is less than about 4x the depth of your keel, resistance increases. If you race |close to shore and you are on the shallower side, you can increase the effort required |substantially. Sometimes you have to balance this against the greater wind and waves |and current further out. To me, the difference between 3 feet depth & 1 foot depth is |like that between calm & 5 kt wind. Excellent point. And shallow water does not mean to the lake bottom, water plants also will cause you to slow down. The resitance in shallow water was mentioned in passing in a discussion last year. I had noticed that when I would round a point my speed would suddenly slow down by a couple mph. I never could figure it out. I thought I had gotten off pace, technique or the that trees were blocking the GPS signal. One lake I use frequently has almost no water plants. The other lake is infested with them, primarily because the lake has a Nuke plant that keeps the water warmer. BUT, even keeping well off the points, speed can be really knocked down because of the water plants. They are not on the surface of the water but are kept a couple of feet down by motor boat traffic but they do cause drag. The shortest way between two points may be a straight line but that may not be the fastest route...... Later... Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com wrote: > And shallow water does not mean to the lake bottom, water > plants also will cause you to slow down. That's true, Dan, and I'm glad that you mentioned it. I had been aware of the effect of crossing a shallow bottom area from both personal experience and from last year's discussion, but even though I often have to paddle across thick weed beds, I never thought about the same effect occurring. I remember stupidly thinking, "those weeds don't seem to be touching the bottom of my boat, but they must be." Duh! John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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