CA Kayaker wrote: >Residual combustible liquids can easily vaporize >at these pressures resulting in a highly flammable gas that is looking for >a way out of the container as pressure on the outside is lower than that on >the inside. In other words: A bomb looking for a place to go off. I'm trying to find a suitable cooking option for an upcoming trip. The Peak1 stove won't fly, and Coleman Company never responded to my query about whether Camping GAZ butane/propane cannisters were retailed anywhere in Panama City. Been looking at flyable fuel alternatives, without buying yet another stove. Was wondering about canned heat..... there are little cans of liquid fuel, I think called diethylene glycol, (they look like little Sterno cans), that are sold in some outdoor stores. Will they explode or leak in the cargo hold of a plane? Anybody used em? How about other ideas? I've seen some little fuel pellets..... Am getting desperate.... gotta have my cuppa in the morning..... or I don't move!! Tina Portland, OR ------------------------------------------------------------- ___________ / OOOOOOO- / I / -OOOOOOO- / I /___________/ / I___________I / Healthy meals on wheels; The BENTO BUGGY website http://www.pcez.com/BentoBuggy ------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:37 PM 3/3/00 -0800, Tina wrote: >I'm trying to find a suitable cooking option for an upcoming trip. The >Peak1 stove won't fly, and Coleman Company never responded to my query >about whether Camping GAZ butane/propane cannisters were retailed anywhere >in Panama City. Been looking at flyable fuel alternatives, without buying >yet another stove. > Like Sandy, I'm sold on my alcohol-burning Trangia. I have a Trangia 28 (Mini-Trangia) that works very well for what I want it to do. It's not real good at heavy cooking, but will cook small amounts of stuff for an individual pretty well, in conditions that aren't too extreme. Problem: since Campmor quit stocking them, they are not easy to find any more. MSR supposedly imports them, and perhaps you can get your favorite outdoor store to order one. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Now why is it a new, gotta-have thing comes out every year? I don't get to go boating enough to use the stoves I already own :>( and so I hate to consider buying another type that I might never be able to use again. I just called the airline today, and they won't allow any flamable or combustible fuel as cargo. They won't even allow an emptied container that once had fuel in it! That doesn't leave alot of options. Does the Trangia have a separate alcohol bottle that one fills for use? Can you discard the emptied alcohol bottle before flying? I'll check it out for future trips, but since I'm leaving Monday, I don't think I'll be able to order one. Thanks anyway, about to be decaffeinated, Tina At 7:07 PM -0800 3/4/00, Wes Boyd wrote: >At 10:37 PM 3/3/00 -0800, Tina wrote: > >>I'm trying to find a suitable cooking option for an upcoming trip. The >>Peak1 stove won't fly, and Coleman Company never responded to my query >>about whether Camping GAZ butane/propane cannisters were retailed anywhere >>in Panama City. Been looking at flyable fuel alternatives, without buying >>yet another stove. >> > >Like Sandy, I'm sold on my alcohol-burning Trangia. I have a Trangia 28 >(Mini-Trangia) that works very well for what I want it to do. It's not real >good at heavy cooking, but will cook small amounts of stuff for an >individual pretty well, in conditions that aren't too extreme. Problem: >since Campmor quit stocking them, they are not easy to find any more. MSR >supposedly imports them, and perhaps you can get your favorite outdoor >store to order one. > >-- Wes ------------------------------------------------------------- ___________ / OOOOOOO- / I / -OOOOOOO- / I /___________/ / I___________I / Healthy meals on wheels; The BENTO BUGGY website http://www.pcez.com/BentoBuggy ------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 01:10 AM 3/5/00 -0800, Tina wrote: >once had fuel in it! That doesn't leave alot of options. Does the Trangia >have a separate alcohol bottle that one fills for use? Can you discard the >emptied alcohol bottle before flying? I'll check it out for future trips, There's no fuel tank, just a burner that you fill with each use. I use 190 proof denatured alcohol that I get at the drug store. I figure that if it's in your gear, labeled as such, if anyone asks it's rubbing alcohol, which it is. BTW, if you get a Trangia, use the best alcohol you can get. The good denatured stuff is fine. Avoid the cheaper isopropyl alcohol; it blackens pots badly. The drug store stuff is a little on the expensive side, but I don't use a lot -- a little over a pint for a week on Isle Royale last year. The nice thing about alcohol stoves in general is that fuel of some nature is easily available almost anywhere. White gas is rare outside North America, and some of the bottled gas stoves used for backpacking have fuel bottles that are hard to find anywhere. -- Wes -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
MSR seems to be the local agent for swedish Trangia, have a look at http://www.msrcorp.com or www.trangia.se In Scandinavia (i live in Denmark) the common name for am outdoor stove is "Trangia", some years ago it was "Primus" (www.primus.se). Venlig hilsen Ole Kjeldgaard *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I should have thought about this earlier. You can make your own alcohol stove similar in design to the Trangia using tin cans. You could probably even make one by Monday if you had the materials and the few simple required tools. http://www.fulton-net.com/~sgraber/stove.htm Glenn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina" <tina_at_bentobuggy.com> To: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net>; <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Cc: "CA Kayaker" <cakayak_at_mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Stoves > Now why is it a new, gotta-have thing comes out every year? I don't get to > go boating enough to use the stoves I already own :>( and so I hate to > consider buying another type that I might never be able to use again. > > I just called the airline today, and they won't allow any flamable or > combustible fuel as cargo. They won't even allow an emptied container that > once had fuel in it! That doesn't leave alot of options. Does the Trangia > have a separate alcohol bottle that one fills for use? Can you discard the > emptied alcohol bottle before flying? I'll check it out for future trips, > but since I'm leaving Monday, I don't think I'll be able to order one. > > Thanks anyway, > about to be decaffeinated, > Tina > > > > At 7:07 PM -0800 3/4/00, Wes Boyd wrote: > >At 10:37 PM 3/3/00 -0800, Tina wrote: > > > >>I'm trying to find a suitable cooking option for an upcoming trip. The > >>Peak1 stove won't fly, and Coleman Company never responded to my query > >>about whether Camping GAZ butane/propane cannisters were retailed anywhere > >>in Panama City. Been looking at flyable fuel alternatives, without buying > >>yet another stove. > >> > > > >Like Sandy, I'm sold on my alcohol-burning Trangia. I have a Trangia 28 > >(Mini-Trangia) that works very well for what I want it to do. It's not real > >good at heavy cooking, but will cook small amounts of stuff for an > >individual pretty well, in conditions that aren't too extreme. Problem: > >since Campmor quit stocking them, they are not easy to find any more. MSR > >supposedly imports them, and perhaps you can get your favorite outdoor > >store to order one. > > > >-- Wes > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > ___________ > / OOOOOOO- / I > / -OOOOOOO- / I > /___________/ / > I___________I / > > Healthy meals on wheels; > The BENTO BUGGY website > http://www.pcez.com/BentoBuggy > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: [Re: Trangia stove:] > There's no fuel tank, just a burner that you fill with each use. I use 190 > proof denatured alcohol that I get at the drug store. I figure that if it's > in your gear, labeled as such, if anyone asks it's rubbing alcohol, which > it is. No, rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol is ethyl alchol with additives so it is undrinkable. I would not expect isopropyl alcohol to burn as well in a Trangia. > BTW, if you get a Trangia, use the best alcohol you can get. The good > denatured stuff is fine. Avoid the cheaper isopropyl alcohol; it blackens > pots badly. The drug store stuff is a little on the expensive side, but I > don't use a lot -- a little over a pint for a week on Isle Royale last year. Wes, have you tried hardware stores for denatured alcohol? Lab grade stuff is in the vicinity of $20/gallon, so hardware store grades should be half of that, and should burn well enough in a Trangia. In Oregon, we can buy 190 proof grain alcohol for about 8-10 dollars a fifth. Nice if you use it for fuel, because when life is boring, you can make margaritas with the stove fuel! <g> <do not try this -- am kidding?> -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR chemist *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:16 PM 3/5/00 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote: >[Re: Trangia stove:] > >Wes, have you tried hardware stores for denatured alcohol? Lab grade stuff is >in the vicinity of $20/gallon, so hardware store grades should be half of that, >and should burn well enough in a Trangia. In Oregon, we can buy 190 proof >grain alcohol for about 8-10 dollars a fifth. Nice if you use it for fuel, >because when life is boring, you can make margaritas with the stove fuel! <g> ><do not try this -- am kidding?> Technically speaking, probably the best bet would be to go to some place like West Marine and get stove alcohol. Paint store alcohol works well, too -- but I use so little, and the drug store is so convenient, I spend the extra couple bucks and don't complain. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > Wes, have you tried hardware stores for denatured alcohol? Lab grade stuff is > in the vicinity of $20/gallon, so hardware store grades should be half of that, > and should burn well enough in a Trangia. In Oregon, we can buy 190 proof > grain alcohol for about 8-10 dollars a fifth. Nice if you use it for fuel, > because when life is boring, you can make margaritas with the stove fuel! <g> > <do not try this -- am kidding?> > Dave; Here in the great NorthEast that 190 proof grain alcohol is called Everclear. Not always easy to find, but I hear that as well as drink it some mechanics use it to clean carburetors. I think that a stove fuel is a better use! Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:56 PM 3/5/00 -0500, Michael R Noyes wrote: >Here in the great NorthEast that 190 proof grain alcohol is called Everclear. Not >always easy to find, but I hear that as well as drink it some mechanics use it to >clean carburetors. I think that a stove fuel is a better use! > Which only goes to prove my contention about one of the main values of alcohol stoves: the fuel is widely available, even on Skid Row. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Another good source of Trangia fuel is auto drygas, the cheap methanol 12fl. oz. bottles that are everywhere up north. Meth burns clean and hot, just don't confuse it with the isopropyl type which burns with some soot. Another nice thing about alcohol is that if it spills, it evaporates with little ecological or personal damage. frank To: "Tina" <tina_at_bentobuggy.com>; <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Cc: "CA Kayaker" <cakayak_at_mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Stoves > At 01:10 AM 3/5/00 -0800, Tina wrote: > >once had fuel in it! That doesn't leave alot of options. Does the Trangia > >have a separate alcohol bottle that one fills for use? Can you discard the > >emptied alcohol bottle before flying? I'll check it out for future trips, > > There's no fuel tank, just a burner that you fill with each use. I use 190 > proof denatured alcohol that I get at the drug store. I figure that if it's > in your gear, labeled as such, if anyone asks it's rubbing alcohol, which > it is. > > BTW, if you get a Trangia, use the best alcohol you can get. The good > denatured stuff is fine. Avoid the cheaper isopropyl alcohol; it blackens > pots badly. The drug store stuff is a little on the expensive side, but I > don't use a lot -- a little over a pint for a week on Isle Royale last year. > > The nice thing about alcohol stoves in general is that fuel of some nature > is easily available almost anywhere. White gas is rare outside North > America, and some of the bottled gas stoves used for backpacking have fuel > bottles that are hard to find anywhere. > > -- Wes > > -- Wes > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:20 PM 3/6/00 +0100, Ole Kjeldgaard wrote: >MSR seems to be the local agent for swedish Trangia, have a look >at http://www.msrcorp.com or www.trangia.se >In Scandinavia (i live in Denmark) the common name for am >outdoor stove is "Trangia", some years ago it was "Primus" >(www.primus.se). The problem is that MSR doesn't work very hard at promoting the Trangia -- they apparently have other priorities, like promoting their own brand. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > The problem is that MSR doesn't work very hard at promoting the Trangia -- > they apparently have other priorities, like promoting their own brand. > I agree with Wes, it is very difficult to find this wonderful stove anywhere. I have the Trangia 25 which is a much bigger version with wind screen supports, two pots 1.5 and 2 qt, fry pan lid and burner. It has served me well for elaborate recipes as well as just boiling water. The problem that this stove faces in the US is the burn time. I have timed the stove against another person with a conventional MSR stove and by the time they assemble, pump, etc. my stove is almost finished boiling. Not to mention the fact that it is basically unbreakable. I do alot of beach camping and have had a couple of stoves clog up because of the harsh saltwater environment and the sand but this stove can't possibly clog. All you do is pour the alcohol in the little burner cup and light it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > > > The problem is that MSR doesn't work very hard at promoting the Trangia -- > > they apparently have other priorities, like promoting their own brand. > > > > I agree with Wes, it is very difficult to find this wonderful stove > anywhere. I have the Trangia 25 which is a much bigger version with wind > screen supports, two pots 1.5 and 2 qt, fry pan lid and burner. It has > served me well for elaborate recipes as well as just boiling water. The > problem that this stove faces in the US is the burn time. I have timed the > stove against another person with a conventional MSR stove and by the time > they assemble, pump, etc. my stove is almost finished boiling. Not to > mention the fact that it is basically unbreakable. I do alot of beach > camping and have had a couple of stoves clog up because of the harsh > saltwater environment and the sand but this stove can't possibly clog. All > you do is pour the alcohol in the little burner cup and light it. A few comments on the Trangia stove. Here in Scandinavia, everybody seems to own a Trangia stove. Come to think of it, I have yet to meet a seakayaker, who didn't cook his/her dinner on a Trangia. Even when people get tired of burning methanol, they keep their Trangia and fit a multifuel burner into the setup instead. I bought the Optimus ex. 11 stove, which is prepared the Trangia. For trips less than a week, I bring the normal Trangia methanol burner, while for longer trips I switch to the Optimus/Trangia compo. In my opinion, kayakers who goes on solo-trips(or simply prefer to do their own cooking), should go for the single person T27 model - which is different from the mini-trangia. The details are at http://www.trangia.se/ Apart from being a customer, I'm not connected with the company. best regards Peter *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vivian wrote: > I have the Trangia 25 which is a much bigger version with wind > screen supports, two pots 1.5 and 2 qt, fry pan lid and burner. It has > served me well for elaborate recipes as well as just boiling water. The > problem that this stove faces in the US is the burn time. I have timed the > stove against another person with a conventional MSR stove and by the time > they assemble, pump, etc. my stove is almost finished boiling. Not to > mention the fact that it is basically unbreakable. I do alot of beach > camping and have had a couple of stoves clog up because of the harsh > saltwater environment and the sand but this stove can't possibly clog. All > you do is pour the alcohol in the little burner cup and light it. I'm also a very big fan of the Trangia with pots and pans. Very safe to operate, no surprises (my first attempt with a gas-burning stove almost blew up my kitchen in a huge flame, it was also my last try) and packs very compact with all the pots and pans. When we had problems getting fuel alcohol (someplaces you need to ask for methylated spirits) we even used 70% rum as a substitute. We didn't compare cooking times, but since Trangia recommends to dilute alcohol with 10-20% water for cleaner burning, I guess that comes out about the same. And which other fuel can you pour into a coconut and drink :-) Still, looking for and buying fuel can be a hassle and I wouldn't mind taking a pocket cooker as backup (and for the fun of it). Does anybody know where to find the pocket cooker in Europe? Regards, Ferdinand ------------------------------------------------------------------ Ferdinand Soethe o, o__ o_/| o_. Wollkaemmerei 8 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ D-30519 Hannover (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\- ph +49-511-9845437 mobile +49-171-1403591 email f.soethe_at_apc.de ------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Patrick Maun wrote: > Hey all, > > also a big Trangia fan (love the no-stick pans). I found a great > source for fuel through West Marine. Seems that the yachting crowd > uses alcohol stoves so several companies have mixtures formulated for > them. I've been using a brand called Soot-Free Stove Fuel and it > really is. Not one bit of soot since I've been using it. > > -Patrick > > The reason for this is that alcohol, being water soluble, is the only liquid fuel that can be put out by water. Since most boats have lots of water available when in use it is the safest liquid fuel for the stoves in a boat. Mike, former power boater and graduate of the Power Squadron safety class. (I was into safety then, too!) -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 1:49 PM -0500 3/7/00, Michael R Noyes wrote: >The reason for this is that alcohol, being water soluble, is the >only liquid fuel >that can be put out by water. Since most boats have lots of water >available when >in use it is the safest liquid fuel for the stoves in a boat. Hey, another good reason to use a Trangia. When I'm sick of cooking, I'll just throw it in the lake to put it out. As for making an alcohol stove. Trangia has a patented design that allows it to "jet" once it has heated up. I don't think that you could get this kind of heat with a tin can style stove with ventilation holes. It would probably be like trying to cook with sterno. As for the soot problems. If you use good stove fuel, this isn't a problem. Best of all, when you use alcohol, no smell if you spill any of the fuel on yourself, clothes, neighbors, whatever. Haven't we already had this thread before? -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael R Noyes" <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> To: <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > > Seems that the yachting crowd > > uses alcohol stoves so > > -Patrick > > > > > > The reason for this is that alcohol, being water soluble, is the only liquid fuel > that can be put out by water. Since most boats have lots of water available when > in use it is the safest liquid fuel for the stoves in a boat. > > Mike, former power boater and graduate of the Power Squadron safety class. (I was > into safety then, too!) Hmmm, I heard it was because propane and gas fumes are heavier than air and turned boats into potential bombs. Butane and alcohol fumes are lighter and did not fill the boat so all the stoves meant for galley use are alcohol or butane. Bob *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
BaysideBob wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael R Noyes" <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> > To: <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> > > Seems that the yachting crowd uses alcohol stoves [snip; not sure who said this] > > The reason for this is that alcohol, being water soluble, is the only > > liquid fuel that can be put out by water. [snip] > Hmmm, I heard it was because propane and gas fumes are heavier than air and > turned boats into potential bombs. Butane and alcohol fumes are lighter and > did not fill the boat so all the stoves meant for galley use are alcohol or > butane. Nope. Alcohol vapor and butane vapor are also heavier than air. Same is true for propane vapor and gasoline vapor. All will gather in your bilges. However, because the alcohol will dissolve in water, the vapor produced from an alcohol-water mix is only (highly) flammable if the mix exceeds something like 30 % alcohol. (Not sure of the exact number. Dana Dickson may have the figure.) There usually being enough water sitting in the bilges to dilute small amounts of spilled alcohol, a **small** alcohol spill does not lead to a "bomb in the bilges." OTOH, even a tiny propane leak can lead to an explosive mix in the head space above the bilge water. Ditto a small gasoline spill -- cause it does not mix with water. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR chemist *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> I agree with Wes, it is very difficult to find this wonderful stove anywhere. I have the Trangia 25 which is a much bigger version with wind screen supports, two pots 1.5 and 2 qt, fry pan lid and burner. It has served me well for elaborate recipes as well as just boiling water. The problem that this stove faces in the US is the burn time. I have timed the stove against another person with a conventional MSR stove and by the time they assemble, pump, etc. my stove is almost finished boiling. Not to mention the fact that it is basically unbreakable. I do alot of beach camping and have had a couple of stoves clog up because of the harsh saltwater environment and the sand but this stove can't possibly clog. All you do is pour the alcohol in the little burner cup and light it. >> *************************************************************************** Hmm -- maybe what we need is a twig-burning stove like the Zip stove with a Trangia insert for those trips where there are no twigs to be found! Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The Canoe Shop in Panama City stocks the Trangia. Their number is 850-763-2311. Ask for Pat! The one I bought -- Trangia 20 with no pans -- cost around $26. Jim Tynan Pike Road AL For the record: I am not affiliated with The Canoe Shop ... blah, blah, blah! -----Original Message----- From: Vivian Oliva <snook_at_gate.net> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Monday, March 06, 2000 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Stoves >> >> The problem is that MSR doesn't work very hard at promoting the Trangia -- >> they apparently have other priorities, like promoting their own brand. >> > >I agree with Wes, it is very difficult to find this wonderful stove >anywhere. I have the Trangia 25 which is a much bigger version with wind >screen supports, two pots 1.5 and 2 qt, fry pan lid and burner. It has >served me well for elaborate recipes as well as just boiling water. The >problem that this stove faces in the US is the burn time. I have timed the >stove against another person with a conventional MSR stove and by the time >they assemble, pump, etc. my stove is almost finished boiling. Not to >mention the fact that it is basically unbreakable. I do alot of beach >camping and have had a couple of stoves clog up because of the harsh >saltwater environment and the sand but this stove can't possibly clog. All >you do is pour the alcohol in the little burner cup and light it. > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 03/04/2000 9:07:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: << Like Sandy, I'm sold on my alcohol-burning Trangia. I have a Trangia 28 (Mini-Trangia) that works very well for what I want it to do. >> Now, I'll have to dig it out, Wes. Where have you taken it, and did you have any trouble finding the denatured alcohol? I don't suppose campgrounds in the US (I favor KOA when solo traveling) stock it in their mini-stores. They say hardware stores have them, but I believe I asked at a hardware store in Venezuela (just testing) and they didn't. T'aint usual to find a hardware store near a campground, is it? What is denatured alcohol anyway? Why won't isopropyl alcohol (available at any drugstore work). And please don't get too scientific on my you techies! :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:09 AM 3/7/00 EST, Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 03/04/2000 9:07:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, >boydwe_at_dmci.net writes: > ><< Like Sandy, I'm sold on my alcohol-burning Trangia. I have a Trangia 28 > (Mini-Trangia) that works very well for what I want it to do. >> > >Now, I'll have to dig it out, Wes. Where have you taken it, Virtually everywhere I've camped in the last ten years. Mostly northern Michigan, three season. Several kayak, car, backpack and canoe trips. >and did you have >any trouble finding the denatured alcohol? I don't suppose campgrounds in >the US (I favor KOA when solo traveling) stock it in their mini-stores. They I usually buy my denatured alcohol at the drug store. It's more expensive that way, but I don't use big amounts, and the pint bottle is around the right size. Other sources include paint stores, auto parts stores (drygas, which you're probably not going to find in Florida), marine stores like West Marine (many cruising boats use alcohol stoves) and many other places. You can burn harder booze -- say, over 150 or 160 proof -- an earlier message in this thread mentioned Everclear . . . > >What is denatured alcohol anyway? Why won't isopropyl alcohol (available at >any drugstore work). And please don't get too scientific on my you techies! Bascially, denatured alcohol is plain old booze alcohol that has had a poison added so you can't drink it and have to pay tax on drinkables. Isopropyl will work but it blackens pots. One of the things that hasn't been mentioned in this thread about alcohol stoves is the fact that they're utterly quiet when they burn. There's one of the hissing roar you get with gas stoves. I frankly like the peace and quiet. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Denatured alcohol can also be bought at your local Wal-Mart and we all know how many there are all over the US. I bring my fuel bottle with me (empty and rinsed out) and pour alcohol bought at store into it. I find that the nozzle on my fuel bottle makes it easier to fill cup with less spills. Speaking of fuel bottles, I do not know where I got this info but have tried it and it works. On overnight trips I do not need a whole quart of fuel so instead of buying a smaller fuel bottle, I took a pint hydrogen peroxide bottle, washed it out and traded the original cap for the caps used in sports bottles (push/pull type). So far, no leaks, cheap and easy pouring. I have looked into the Sierra Zip stoves but didn't think they would be a good idea around salt water environs. Those little wires connecting to battery and fan just might rust out. The folding one without the fan sounds great, maybe you could take a few charcoal briquettes in a little zip lock in case you can't find fuel on your first day out. One more thing to consider is if planning a trip, call ahead for fire bans and ask if your wood stove is allowed. A couple of years ago while on a canoe trip in Canada, we were under a fire ban and this included wood burning stoves for that particular area *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > What is denatured alcohol anyway? Why won't isopropyl alcohol (available at > any drugstore work). And please don't get too scientific on my you techies! > :) Denatured alcohol = 2 carbons and one oxygen. Isopropyl = 3 carbons and one oxygen, so it does not have as much oxygen per carbon in the mix as the deantured alcohol. You can reconfigure a stove to burn other fuels, but it usually means altering an orifice somwhere to increase or decrease the fuel flow, which is easier than altering the air flow. BTW, folks from OZ and the UK are claiming to burn methanol (1 carbon, one oxygen) in their Trangias -- does it burn hotter, or what? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I normally use a MSR Whisperlite burning gas (benzine) or kerosene, and sometimes on shorter trips i use my old Trangia. Once I wanted to bring the Trangia on a trip, and I wasn't sure what was actually in the fuel bottle, denatured ethanol or "odeurless" kerosene, I tok of the corkscrew and sniffed. It was definitely ethanol. Being out there after a day of rowing, I wanted to light the Trangia: It wouldn't burn. What was actually in the bottle was kerosene, it just had a smell of alcohol because I some weeks before had been carrying some alcohol in it. It was raining, and it would be a hard job to make a fire outside the tent to cook my freezedried dinner. I took a twig soaked it in kerosene, lit it and let it stand burning in the Trangia, acting as wig. After around 10 mins. the kerosene was hot enough to burn whithout the twig and actually burned with a blue flame through the small holes, and I got my hot meal. P:S: I wouldnt dare to do the same with gas though, gas is far to volatile. Aluminium bottles shouldn't be used for storing alcohol, it makes them korode. Venlig hilsen Ole Kjeldgaard *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 03/05/2000 4:35:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, tina_at_bentobuggy.com writes: << Does the Trangia have a separate alcohol bottle that one fills for use? >> I believe the alcohol would be OK in a plastic bottle, but the point is you would buy one at your destination and use it during your trip there. You wouldn't need a separate fuel bottle, unless you needed it for space reasons. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 03/05/2000 6:08:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, stauffer_at_voicenet.com writes: << I should have thought about this earlier. You can make your own alcohol stove similar in design to the Trangia using tin cans. You could probably even make one by Monday if you had the materials and the few simple required tools. >> Cool URL. And you've just reminded me of a Girl Scout camping project. You get an empty can (I believe we used tuna fish size). cut strips of CORRUGATED cardboard, wrap them tightly in circles inside the can and then pour melted candle wax (or was it paraffin??). It then hardens. Would this be safe on a plane? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
><< I should have thought about this earlier. You can make your own alcohol > stove similar in design to the Trangia using tin cans. You could probably > even make one by Monday if you had the materials and the few simple required > tools. >> >And you've just reminded me of a Girl Scout camping project. You >get an empty can (I believe we used tuna fish size). cut strips of >CORRUGATED cardboard, wrap them tightly in circles inside the can and then >pour melted candle wax (or was it paraffin??). It then hardens. Would this >be safe on a plane? I did this too (as a boy scout, though). The thing blackened every pot in sight... One of the sootiest stoves I'd ever tried. The stove itself was a #10 can with church key openings all around the top for ventilation. I just got a copy of a book called "Roughing it Easy" which includes plans for all kinds of tincan stoves, etc. Even a section on Manifold Cooking (on your auto engine)! Nothing about making alcohol stoves out of tin cans, though. JP > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Alcohol in a bottle, plastic, metal or glass is still a hazardous material and has to be transported as such. Whether an airline would be willing to take a Trangia stove burner that has been used, cleaned and dried is debatable. I'd call and ask before I bet my vacation or a fine on being right. Paraffin and candle wax are equivalents, except to the chemists on the list. Paraffin is not considered a hazardous material and should be OK on a plane. So the Girl Scout burner is probably legal but they are very sooty. Dana -----Original Message----- Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:14:33 EST From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Stoves In a message dated 03/05/2000 4:35:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, tina_at_bentobuggy.com writes: << Does the Trangia have a separate alcohol bottle that one fills for use? >> I believe the alcohol would be OK in a plastic bottle, but the point is you would buy one at your destination and use it during your trip there. You wouldn't need a separate fuel bottle, unless you needed it for space reasons. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 11:19:30 EST From: Gypsykayak_at_aol.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Stoves In a message dated 03/05/2000 6:08:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, stauffer_at_voicenet.com writes: << I should have thought about this earlier. You can make your own alcohol stove similar in design to the Trangia using tin cans. You could probably even make one by Monday if you had the materials and the few simple required tools. >> Cool URL. And you've just reminded me of a Girl Scout camping project. You get an empty can (I believe we used tuna fish size). cut strips of CORRUGATED cardboard, wrap them tightly in circles inside the can and then pour melted candle wax (or was it paraffin??). It then hardens. Would this be safe on a plane? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm not sure if they are really burning Methanol or what they call "Metholated Spirits" which here is denatured alcohol. In the UK it's a nasty blue color, if I remember correctly. cu -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Dave Kruger Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 2:45 PM To: PaddleWise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Stoves BTW, folks from OZ and the UK are claiming to burn methanol (1 carbon, one oxygen) in their Trangias -- does it burn hotter, or what? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bob Denton wrote: > > I'm not sure if they [people in OZ or the UK] > are really burning Methanol or what they call > "Metholated Spirits" which here is denatured alcohol. In the UK it's a nasty > blue color, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's probably what it is -- never knew what "methylated spirits" meant before. That is a nasty way to denature alcohol -- the methanol will kill you or make you blind. Other denaturants only make you throw up. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have tried burning rubbing alcohol (70% isopropyl alcohol and 30% water), and it burns Ok although a little bit sooty. The reason they use 70% is because that is the most effective alcohol concentration for disinfection. The old Navy test for 100 proof (50% alchohol) was to light a glass of rum to make sure it had not been watered down. Unless you warm the booze or alcohol it generally needs to be 100 proof or more to burn. Based on anecdotal experience and my own experience Methanol burns the cleanest, Ethanol a close second and 2-propanol (isopropyl alcohol) is a bit too sooty for my taste. That said 2-propanol is a damn sight less dirty than burning little twigs - any wood fire is going to blacken your pots but good. Finding Methanol or Ethanol is easy if you know what to look for in the stores. I nabbed eight liters of reagent grade Methanol that my companies lab was going to dispose of as hazardous solvent - I disposed of it as most excellent fuel. Ethanol sold as denatured alcohol is available at most hardware stores as an alcohol paint thinner, as Patrick pointed out marine alcohol stove fuel is not hard to come by. If you get desperate rubbing alcohol will work as will any booze that is 100 plus proof. I once ran out of fuel in teh Baja after steaming to many tasty shellfish but regrettably our supply of Tequila was only 80 proof and could not be coaxed to burn. Dave Kruger wrote: > Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > > > What is denatured alcohol anyway? Why won't isopropyl alcohol (available at > > any drugstore work). And please don't get too scientific on my you techies! > > :) > > Denatured alcohol = 2 carbons and one oxygen. > > Isopropyl = 3 carbons and one oxygen, so it does not have as much oxygen per > carbon in the mix as the deantured alcohol. > > You can reconfigure a stove to burn other fuels, but it usually means altering > an orifice somwhere to increase or decrease the fuel flow, which is easier than > altering the air flow. > > BTW, folks from OZ and the UK are claiming to burn methanol (1 carbon, one > oxygen) in their Trangias -- does it burn hotter, or what? > > -- > Dave Kruger > Astoria, OR > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:10 PDT