PaddleWise by thread

From: TomW <gadfly911_at_earthlink.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:23:42 -0700
Hi,

	Nope-haven't sold the Pursuit yet [and having second...ninth thoughts 
about it too<g>] and the weather is getting warmer out here, and, and, 
and...<g>

	Anyway, at a recent rehab appointment, the subject about a local park 
doubling its size, came up.  It is located very near one of the bridges 
that join east and west Bremerton.  So I went down there to check it out 
and what did I see?  A fella with a glass kayak, making preps to put it in 
the water.

	Well of course I had to get out and introduce myself to this guy!  I was 
suprised to note that this fella was going to "water test" the boat he had, 
as he was unsure of weather to purchase it or not<!>  He had taken a week 
long kayaking charter in B.C. about 3 years before, and had not been in one 
since apparently.

	I asked him if he was familiar with the tide and current conditions here, 
and he replied that no he wasn't.  I asked him if he had a marine VHF, or 
CB or something?  Nope again.  Then I offered that in that case, would he 
be upset if I stuck around and watched, so that in case of trouble, I could 
call for help?

	He then looked up and saw the kayak on top of my truck-then asked me if I 
would be willing to accompany him on his "test drive..."  I got real honest 
with him and told him that my chart was at home, I needed a new tide table 
book, and besides... I have run into a little trouble with them since my 
brain injury...<g>

	I offered to help him consider things needed for the sport.  His pfd was 
ill-fitting, he got his skirt on, but backwards, he didn't seem to 
understand the concept of how to know when he and the right end of the 
paddle on the right side of the boat, and when I suggested that he adjust 
the pegs to leave his legs slightly bent-he decided I was wrong, etc...

	The kayak was about 12-14ft long I think, fiberglass, one watertight 
compartment with hatch.  The coming was "peaked" at about a 20 deg angle at 
the back of the cockpit.  Not my choice, but for $700 including two 
paddles, a skirt, and an (ill fitting) pfd, of course it was a good buy.  I 
suggested air bags for forward, a new PFD, considering at the least a dry 
top and farmer john, as well as some insulated foot wear, and a trip as 
soon as possible to Gig Harbor Kayaks for some lessons!  I also recommended 
joining this list if he could!

	Okay, so showing him my gear, and talking to him about our sport, did make 
me have maybe a change of heart about selling my kayak...  The park is no 
more than 10 minutes away, and there is what appears to be some relatively 
"stable" water in an..."inlet"<?> where the boat dock/ramp is 
located...  Besides I still remember enough about "fluid dynamics and heat 
transfer" in piping systems, I wonder if I go back to basics, and start 
from there, it sure seems that I should, be able to re-learn tides/currents 
and how to read a silly chart for heavens sake...<g>

	Besides, I haven't even considered dropping Paddlewise, and if I didn't 
help this new fella, I reminded myself that there must be a way to get 
myself out there...<g>

	Hope this wasn't too long,

		Take care,
	
			Tom... 


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:37:43 -0400
At 12:23 AM 4/14/00 -0700, TomW wrote:
>Hi,
>
>	Nope-haven't sold the Pursuit yet [and having second...ninth thoughts 
>about it too<g>] and the weather is getting warmer out here, and, and, 
>and...<g>
>
>	Anyway, at a recent rehab appointment, the subject about a local park 
>doubling its size, came up.  It is located very near one of the bridges 
>that join east and west Bremerton.  So I went down there to check it out 
>and what did I see?  A fella with a glass kayak, making preps to put it in 
>the water.
>
>	Well of course I had to get out and introduce myself to this guy!  I was 
>suprised to note that this fella was going to "water test" the boat he had, 
>as he was unsure of weather to purchase it or not<!>  He had taken a week 
>long kayaking charter in B.C. about 3 years before, and had not been in one 
>since apparently.
>
>	I asked him if he was familiar with the tide and current conditions here, 
>and he replied that no he wasn't.  I asked him if he had a marine VHF, or 
>CB or something?  Nope again.  Then I offered that in that case, would he 
>be upset if I stuck around and watched, so that in case of trouble, I could 
>call for help?


>
>	He then looked up and saw the kayak on top of my truck-then asked me if I 
>would be willing to accompany him on his "test drive..."  I got real honest 
>with him and told him that my chart was at home, I needed a new tide table 
>book, and besides... I have run into a little trouble with them since my 
>brain injury...<g>

While this was good of you to offer to watch in the case of trouble,  I
have to wonder if you're going just a bit overboard on safety precautions
for a test paddle of a new boat in what you later described as an inlet.  

There are times when knowledges of tides and currents, a VHF radio, and
having up to date charts and the ability to read are necessary, but those
requirements are hardly necessary for demoing a boat in "relatively stable
water in an inlet".

 >suggested air bags for forward, a new PFD, considering at the least a dry 
>top and farmer john, as well as some insulated foot wear, and a trip as 
>soon as possible to Gig Harbor Kayaks for some lessons!  I also recommended 
>joining this list if he could!

This, of course, is good advice.


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri Apr 14 09:00:25 2000
Tom, if you can, keep the boat.  Don't sell the boat.

There have been a few really important threads on PaddleWise in the few years of its existence which have gone far beyond the interesting and potentially "fascinating" issues of Greenland paddle crafting and electric bilge pumps (mea culpe).  One of these, Tom, has been your sharing of an incredibly difficult, painful and protracted post-trauma return to a life that most of us take for granted.  Many of us who have been on the list since its early days have begun to appreciate, through your posts over time, how the human mind regenerates and repairs itself after extraordinary trauma --- and how that, too, can apply to sea kayaking.  In your case, we have seen a battle of mind over mind, and we've shared in --- and I'd suggest we've been enriched by --- the progress you've made in getting back to the water.  What you did for this newbie in the backwards skirt is what this list is all about.  Don't sell the boat, Tom.

Your post, and the uncomfortable drama of Doug and his confrontation with Storm Island --- and with his survival, his struggle with making that ordeal meaningful and important to others on and off the list, his bruised interpersonal relationships with his friends, and his impatience with "the system" and the vagaries and apparent bureaucracy of the press --- is another thread that ties us together.  If that makes us uneasy, if it's unpleasant or it makes us uncomfortable, it also makes us a lot wiser --- which is exactly the agenda that Jackie wanted to create in PaddleWise.

Paul Hollerbach's unforgettable first-person documentary of his own impending death in a storm on the Hudson River is another one of those intensely personal narratives which grabs you and holds on and hurts. The openness and candor of these threads sometimes make us very uncomfortable as witnesses.  But we learn from threads like these, and what the authors pay in giving up of themselves in communicating these sometimes horrendous experiences is paid out to the readers and participants on PaddleWise in incredible dividends.

Don't sell the boat, Tom.  The currents will come back --- the tidal and the river currents --- and the ones in your head which are still eddying out on you.  You knew the guy's skirt was on backwards, right?  You knew he was holding his paddle backwards, right?  You helped the newbie, and, in that, you perpetuated the spirit of PaddleWise.  So don't sell the boat, Tom, and stay with the list.  Please.  The price that you and Doug and Paul pay and have paid keeps the lights turned up bright on the PaddleWise porch.

Jack Martin


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <JSpinner_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:45:11 EDT
<<Don't sell the boat, Tom.  The currents will come back --- the tidal and the river currents --- and the ones in your head which are still eddying out on you.  You knew the guy's skirt was on backwards, right?  You knew he was holding his paddle backwards, right?  You helped the newbie, and, in that, you perpetuated the spirit of PaddleWise.  So don't sell the boat, Tom, and stay with the list.  Please.  The price that you and Doug and Paul pay and have paid keeps the lights turned up bright on the PaddleWise porch.>>

Tom,
What Joc said! Me too!

Joan Spinner
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Robert C. Cline <rccline_at_swbell.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:05:43 -0500
When I was putting in at the bay last year a guy on a SOT came up and told
me he was a kayak guide and instructor.  Said he knew the area and could
help us out.  I had watched him paddle up.  He was holding his paddle upside
down.

Must be a new technique, I thought to myself.

Told him thanks, but we were ok.

Robert 

> From: JSpinner_at_aol.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
> 
> You helped the newbie, and, in that, you perpetuated the spirit of PaddleWise.
> So don't sell the boat, Tom, and stay with the list. 

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:57:12 -0400
Tom,

I apologize if my first reply seemed a bit harsh.  You should be commended
for being a good ambassador for the sport we all love.   

As I see it, safety is an extremely important issue, and essentially boils
down to risk assesment.

First of all, one must understand what the risks are in order to accurately
evaluate those risks.  Failure to do so can be fatal, as is frequently
demonstrated by the annual "accident reports" that are posted to various
online forums describing paddlers going out in conditions in which they are
not properly dress or prepared as far as experience necessary to paddle
safely under those conditions. 

Once one understands the risks, however, it becomes a matter of being able
to assess the risk, and determine for yourself whether you're sufficiently
prepared to paddle safely, based on your evaluation of the risk.  That
includes wearing the correct attire, correctly assessing your skills, and
even predicting the weather.

In the case that you described I felt that, you did your job in educating
the new paddler of what the potential risks were, but perhaps over
estimated the risk.  The phrase "it's better to be safe than to be sorry"
is often appropriate but in some cases,  the risk just isn't high enough to
warrant every possible safety precaution available.

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: TomW <gadfly911_at_earthlink.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:09:56 -0700
John,
	
	Thank you for your input.  What you say is true.  Thing is that before 
this guy took off for his test drive, NEITHER of us knew what the 
conditions more than 10 feet away from the dock were.

	I do know that there are places on Puget Sound where one can run into 
currents of at least 7 mph.  For a man with an ill-fitting PFD, no 
equipment for rescue, wearing street clothes, etc... and me wondering just 
how much he really knew/understood about our sport-I confess, I'd do it 
again.

	I did suggest he do his "test drive" at a local lake, but he refused.

		Take care,

			Tom...


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <cthomp26_at_csc.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:02:24 -0500
>When I was putting in at the bay last year a guy on a SOT came up and told
 >me he was a kayak guide and instructor.  Said he knew the area and could
 >help us out.  I had watched him paddle up.  He was holding his paddle upside
 >down.

OK, I'll admit I'm a newbie, and a lurker, and I even paddle a SOT!
So how do you tell the paddle is upside down?

I'm sure I'll find out in the Coastal Paddling class I'm scheduled for next
month, but I can't wait.

Cheryl



***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:29:33 -0700
cthomp26_at_csc.com wrote:

> OK, I'll admit I'm a newbie, and a lurker, and I even paddle a SOT!
> So how do you tell the paddle is upside down?

Paddle manufacturers in their wisdom almost invariably have their name
on the blades.  You orient your paddle to the rightside up position by
having it in your hands in a way that you read the name.  If it is a
paddle made in China with the name written in Chinese signs, you may
have a hard time orienting your paddle by this simple clue.  In that
case, look at the signs for any that seem to be standing on little legs;
those little legs generally point down.  So if your paddle is held with
an clue sign with its Chinese name's legs down, you should be alright.

Some companies are ornery and have their logo sideways so that reading
the name will be of no help.  Help the paddling community by boycotting
these firms.  It will teach them not to prey on disoriented paddlers.

The upside down and rightside up issue only applies to blades that are
asymmetrical at their tips.  If the blades are symmetrical, it doesn't
matter whether the name is upside down or not.  If you feel you may be
confused and might run into some PaddleWiser who will immortalize your
ignorance in the listserver, then choose a symmetrical bladed paddle.

Jackie, I think this answer should be archived for newcomers.

ralph diaz 
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:15:06 -0400
cthomp26_at_csc.com wrote:
> 
> OK, I'll admit I'm a newbie, and a lurker, and I even paddle a SOT!
> So how do you tell the paddle is upside down?
> 
> I'm sure I'll find out in the Coastal Paddling class I'm scheduled for next
> month, but I can't wait.

Uh-Oh, I guess I'd better look that one up ;)

Steve
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Bill Leonhardt <WJLeonhardt_at_bnl.gov>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:34:26 -0400
Tom Weese's recent post gave us a small account of an advice giving
incident but a really big reminder (at least for me) of why we paddle.
Every time he posts, I am really inspired.  Although we're a continent
apart, I'm proud to share the experience paddling brings us.

I think Jack Martin really, really expressed so very eloquently, what many,
many people on this list feel.

Thanks Jack.  THANKS TOM!

Bill Leonhardt 
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:49:31 -0400
Ok, so I'm paddling backwards,  Yes backwards.  If I do this with the
paddle held with the cupped blades facing me.  I understand how my paddle
should be oriented.  BUT what if I reverse the paddle so the cupped face is
away from me?  Should the decal be upright or upside down?  Should I be
able to read it right to left or left to right?   8-;

This would be in English, I'm not touching the complexities offered by a
"graphical" language!  8-)

 Anyone else notice how fast you can paddle backwards?   Does anyone else
paddle backwards or is it just me?  Anyone else notice it is Friday?

Later....
Dan McCarty


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Seng, Dave <Dave_Seng_at_health.state.ak.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:24:07 -0800
> From: dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com [mailto:dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com]
> 
>  Anyone else notice how fast you can paddle backwards?   Does 
> anyone else
> paddle backwards or is it just me?  Anyone else notice it is Friday?

  I practice paddling backwards frequently, especially when I'm just poking
around shore or checking out a little inlet.  It's also a nice change-up for
muscles tired of doing the same old thing.  My secret reason for practicing
is because I'm sure that one of these days I'm going to quietly slide onto a
beach and a bear will stick its head out of the underbrush yards away - then
you'll see a back paddle sprint!<grin>
  It's Friday, the sun is shining in SE Alaska (hey - it's a BIG deal up
here!!) and I'll be on the water in a few hours!  

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:47:05 -0400
At 11:24 AM 4/14/00 -0800, Seng, Dave wrote:
>> From: dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com [mailto:dmccarty_at_us.ibm.com]
>> 
>>  Anyone else notice how fast you can paddle backwards?   Does 
>> anyone else
>> paddle backwards or is it just me?  Anyone else notice it is Friday?
>
>  I practice paddling backwards frequently, especially when I'm just poking
>around shore or checking out a little inlet.  It's also a nice change-up for
>muscles tired of doing the same old thing.  My secret reason for practicing
>is because I'm sure that one of these days I'm going to quietly slide onto a
>beach and a bear will stick its head out of the underbrush yards away - then
>you'll see a back paddle sprint!<grin>

I took a class a couple of years ago from Derek Hutchinson and he had us do
quite a bit of paddleing backwards.  He started off with everyone facing
him and started to demonstrate paddling backwards, and asked everyone to
catch up to watch.  He kept paddling asking us to get closer.  It became
evident that one could paddle backards as fast or faster than forwards.

He demonstrated the "correct" way to paddle backwards early in the lesson
for a number of reasons.  Some people were turning the paddle over and
pulling the cupped face forward and he wanted to correct that right off the
bat.   Using the back (cupped) face for the stroke provided a very powerful
stroke.  Showing how to present the back face of the blade to the water
also led to an easy segue to a low brace.   Paddling backwards correctly
also required a lot of torso rotation.   I find it much easier to get a lot
of torso rotation on a backards stroke, and it makes it easier to teach
torso rotation on the forward stroke.  Later on in the lesson he was
teaching an extended paddle brace turn both forward and backwards.  He had
us build up a lot of speed paddling backwards,  grab the paddle in an
extended paddle position, place the powerface about 30 degrees off the bow
and then really lean on it and sweep slowly back.  I find that is fairly
easy to do a 180 degree turn that way.

One of the major benefits of practicing paddling backwards, and iniitiating
turns while paddleing backwards is that it may come in very useful if
you're paddling along ahead of someone and they capsize.  In many cases, it
would be faster to do a couple of stop strokes, then paddle backwards to
the capsized paddler than turn around 180 degrees.

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Spencer Smith <spencerarthur_at_hotbot.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:48:03 -0700
> Anyone else notice how fast you can paddle backwards?   Does anyone else paddle backwards or is it just me?

Not only do I paddle backwards for speed, sometimes I kniht, kaeps dna etirw sdrawkcab.  Oops, sorry about that; I couldn't resist. ;-)  Actually, for me, the power face of the blade always faces to stern.

Spencer a.k.a. Recneps


HotBot - Search smarter.
http://www.hotbot.com

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 23:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
 From: TomW <gadfly911_at_earthlink.net>
>
> John,
>
>       Thank you for your input.  What you say is true.  Thing is that 
> before
> this guy took off for his test drive, NEITHER of us knew what the
> conditions more than 10 feet away from the dock were.
>
>       I do know that there are places on Puget Sound where one can run 
> into
> currents of at least 7 mph.  For a man with an ill-fitting PFD, no
> equipment for rescue, wearing street clothes, etc... and me wondering just
> how much he really knew/understood about our sport-I confess, I'd do it
> again.


And, imho, it appears to me you'd be doing the right thing, :-)

Because none of us were there and observing what you observed firsthand, I
think for any of us to make a judgement call on your judgement call is
a bit premature without knowing more of the facts.  Questions first
would probably be more productive.  I think what is most important is that
you left the impression of safety on this guy.  You brought up issues which
had not occurred to him which *will* cause him to think about *some* of it
(if not all of it) and that's good ground gained.

On a personal note... I agree with everything Jack said (wish I could have
worded it like he did!) and second his comment "Don't sell that boat."  All
of us on this list have been greatly enriched from your postings and updates
on your progress.  I think you are awesome and you're one of my heros :-)

Cheers,

Jackie

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] Spring fling, Storm Island, various ramblings
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:32:05
Wow, no new messages since late last night! Everybody must be out paddling.
About time, the winter has been going long enough. 

I did manage to get out for about three hours this afternoon, with my more
or less regular kayak buddy and his new GPS. Just a get-the-kinks-out
paddle in winds that were a little strong and gusty, but nothing we
couldn't handle. It was a new lake for us, and we found a takeout next to a
donut shop . . . I guess we've got a regular place to go for those Sunday
morning paddles, now.

Playing with the GPS was sort of fun, but I feel it could get habit
forming. I've even shied away from taking a watch with me in the past,
since I like to be a little free of the concerns with the passage of time .
. . and because I wore a watch that had long lost its waterproofing. It was
interesting to know that we made 3.6 knots on the downwind leg, and 3.2 on
the windward. But, I go out to enjoy myself, not to measure my performance,
and I suspect that on a regular basis it could take a lot of the fun out of
being out there. I can see times when it will be handy, but routine
pleasure paddles probably aren't among those times.

While waiting for my daughter to pick up some movies at the video store
earlier, I happened to open my Rand McNally to get a better idea of where
Doug Lloyd's Storm Island paddle was. I had it in my head that it was on
the west side of Vancouver Island, but no, from the points in his story, it
was clear that these guys were crossing Queen Charlotte Strait. I've read a
couple of books by a guy that used to fish commerically in southern Alaska
(Alaska Blues by Joe Upton, and another -- the name escapes me -- by the
same author), and I thought back to the passages Upton wrote about crossing
that strait in thirty and forty foot fishing boats, and sixty and seventy
foot fish packers, and how they got the crap kicked out of them more often
than not. And, he has the pictures to prove it. He points out that it's
highly appropriate that the last refuge to the north is known as "Safety
Cove", and the first one you come to on the south side is "God's Pocket."
Appropriate names, I'm sure. I have difficulty imagining being out there in
kayaks! Me 'ats off to the duke . . . 

Hope everybody had good paddles today, didn't get too sunburned or
windburned, and are getting the winter kinks out.

-- Wes

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Matt Broze <mkayaks_at_oz.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 22:32:11 -0700
Robert C. Cline" wrote:
>>When I was putting in at the bay last year a guy on a SOT came up and told
me he was a kayak guide and instructor.  Said he knew the area and could
help us out.  I had watched him paddle up.  He was holding his paddle upside
down.
Must be a new technique, I thought to myself.
Told him thanks, but we were ok.<<


Question:
How does an expert paddler hold his paddle?
Answer:
Just like a 500 pound gorilla; anyway he wants to!

This answer also goes for putting the spraydeck inside or outside of the PFD
and leaning toward or away from small breakers and steep waves, among many
other things.

I would however suggest a novice start out by using the paddle the way the
manufacturer intended (which he has about a 50/50 chance of doing without
help). It makes very little difference really, except at high speed or
acceleration, and sometimes it can be of benefit to use some paddles upside
down. Some long time paddlers I have met use their paddles upside down all
the time and prefer it that way (by coincidence I met another one today).
They usually tell me it feels like they are getting a better bite on the
water and it gives them a little extra kick at the end of their stroke.
Personally, I think they are actually feeling the energy they are wasting
lifting water at the end of the stroke and misinterpreting the extra effort
as a benefit rather than a loss.
One time I was testing out a kayak companies new highly spooned asymmetrical
paddle (with a round shaft). As I would pull back hard for a stroke the big
blades would slide to the side and around the arc of their spoon. This slide
off line was either in towards the kayak or out to the outside away from the
kayak, but which way it would go was unpredictable. If I wasn't careful the
blade would make a full circle. Not being able to know where the blade was
gong to go next was very annoying because paddle placement had to be very
precise and I had to grip the round (hand bruising) shaft much tighter to
prevent this from occurring. Then I hit upon the solution: "Switch the
paddle end for end". [Aside: BTW Ralph this phrase along with a gesture
(crossing my forearms while pretending to hold a paddle) is how I tell a new
paddler to put the paddle in the desired--by me--orientation. Let me explain
the "by me": I have the normal downside of our fiberglass blade demo paddles
padded with electrical tape (so the paddler doesn't scratch up my demo
kayaks as much if they hit it at the start of a stroke). I also advise many
paddlers testing our kayaks that they don't need to turn the paddle over to
paddle backwards (thereby save them a lot of useless switching around and me
from some more scratches on my kayaks' decks). I don't bother trying to
correct all the renters I see in my next door competitor's kayaks although I
admit to often feeling the urge to help them out].
Back to the original point: by switching the squirrelly spoon blade paddle
end for end (therefore using the blades upside down from what was intended
by the manufacturer) the twist imparted on the blade as it entered the water
always tended to send the paddle into the outside arc. Because of this
consistency in direction, the tendency could be corrected for, in advance,
rather than just be reacted to after the fact. This got me back to the dock
and my own paddle (which I appreciated all the more--after having flirted
with its rival).

To those who believe there is only one right way I will quote Aldous Huxley:
"Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds". (I think it was Aldous--or
maybe it was a physicist said it, or maybe a conversation Huxley had with a
physicist, or was it a mathematician--hate this getting older).

Had some fun the other day. Went skiing a little over 2 weeks after having a
double hernia operation. Stayed out of the moguls for the most part in
deference to the operation and on one run I found myself on the most novice
of the runs. Thought I'd get with the program and try to ski like an
uncoordinated novice (a little out of control, doing just about everything
in a tense and jerky manner, and narrowly avoiding one hazard or tree after
another. One woman, sympathizing with my plight, tried to help and gave me
suggestions to lean more forward. With each suggestion she made I would lean
even further back on the tails of my skis until finally my boots would lift
themselves and the front of my skis off the snow and then I would (staying
in character) clumsily swing my tips around and flop them down to make the
turn. I think she was frustrated that she couldn't seem to help me do it
right (how she was taught), in fact, I must have appeared to be getting
worse rather than better. Funny thing is that while sitting back is not
considered good technique, and no one I know but me teaches it, it is how I
can ski in almost all conditions (powder, moguls, crud and the super steep)
and it sure works for me. I described why it works in my book "Freestyle
Skiing" back in the 70's but nobody paid much attention, in the ski schools
anyway. Their loss, I figure.
To bring this back to paddling I suggest you will learn more than an
instructor can teach you if you try to think of all the ways to make the
kayak move and turn that you can and then test them out. Then come up with
some more new ways and test them. Who knows at the least you might learn
something you can use during some special circumstances later, maybe you
will find a better forward stroke.
Matt Broze (never went to ski or kayaking school and it shows)
http://www.marinerkayaks.com


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: D Lee <snorkler_at_juno.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 07:27:24 -0700
Cheryl,

Paddle blades are like spoons.  You paddle so the blades scoop and move
the water, rather than pushing the blade through it.  You're trying to
pull your kayak or canoe through the water by cupping your spoon through
it.  Imagine how difficult it would be if you reversed your spoon and
tried to pull youe canoe or kayak that way.  So the cupped side of the
blade faces you and the rear of the kayak.

                                                                    
front
             -- -- --                                                    
                                       --- -- --
          --           --                                                
                                   --               --
                          
-----------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                     
rear

Then to tell which side is the top side of the paddle, you think of it
like a feather, with the short vanes on top and the longer ones below. 
To translate that into English the widest part of the paddle is
uppermost, and the majority of the paddle droops from it.

             top
       _______________________
    /                                                 
  /_____________________________________centerline of paddle (shaft)
 \
   \
     \  
       \________________________

        bottom


Darrell Lee
Alameda, CA
snorkler_at_juno.com

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Christine Allison <sailnut_at_asan.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:12:28 -0400
I don't know about this.... it has to be more the pure drag. I think that in
addition to the drag of the flat surface... some kind of a thrust vector is
developed by the reflexed blade.

Richard Smith
>
> Paddle blades are like spoons.  You paddle so the blades scoop and move
> the water, rather than pushing the blade through it.  You're trying to
> pull your kayak or canoe through the water by cupping your spoon through
> it.  Imagine how difficult it would be if you reversed your spoon and
> tried to pull youe canoe or kayak that way.  So the cupped side of the
> blade faces you and the rear of the kayak.
>
>

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:25:44 -0400
ralph diaz wrote:
> 
> > OK, I'll admit I'm a newbie, and a lurker, and I even paddle a SOT!
> > So how do you tell the paddle is upside down?
> 
> Paddle manufacturers in their wisdom almost invariably have their name
> on the blades.  You orient your paddle to the rightside up position by
> having it in your hands in a way that you read the name.  
> 
> Some companies are ornery and have their logo sideways so that reading
> the name will be of no help.  Help the paddling community by boycotting
> these firms.  It will teach them not to prey on disoriented paddlers.

The new Whetstone paddles have their name on the back, so other people
can tell who made the paddle. Perhaps because they are a new company and
need the exposure :) Applying Ralph's rule here would cause some
unhappiness.

BTW, if you're in the market for a paddle, theirs are pretty nice. You
won't find many graphite paddles around for $165. Only flaw is their
shaft is rounder than I'd like.

As I think about it, the label on my Cricket is on the back, too. But
they put _my_ name on the powerface. Lest I forget, I guess.

Steve

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Helping a new paddler?
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:59:11 -0700
Steve Cramer wrote:
> 
> ralph diaz wrote:

> > Paddle manufacturers in their wisdom almost invariably have their name
> > on the blades.  You orient your paddle to the rightside up position by
> > having it in your hands in a way that you read the name.

> The new Whetstone paddles have their name on the back, so other people
> can tell who made the paddle. Perhaps because they are a new company and
> need the exposure :) Applying Ralph's rule here would cause some
> unhappiness.

> As I think about it, the label on my Cricket is on the back, too. But
> they put _my_ name on the powerface. Lest I forget, I guess.

Ditto for my Lightning paddle (an old one -- could be the new ones have the
logo on the power face).

My bottom line on new paddlers and which way they hold the padldle is to let
'em paddle any old which way until they **want** to figure it out.  When they
get to the point that efficiency makes a difference to 'em, they will listen
carefully to ways to improve it.  Liked Werner's clear explanation for which
way to hold an asymmetric paddle (Web site in an earlier post).

BTW, one cold March afternoon, with 10 knots of westerly kicking, I was riding
the car ferry back from the San Juans as it overtook a guy in shirtsleeves,
bare-headed, and wearing Levis (I think), paddling along briskly, paddle upside
down, PFD strapped to the afterdeck, headed out into the big water of Rosario
Strait with its shipping traffic.  He had some 7-8 miles to go to Anacortes,
but I guess he made it, 'cause I never read about him in the paper.  Looked
like an old Sea Runner.

We shuddered to see him, and knew he was untutored, because he had been in the
middle of the fairway of one of the narrow passes as the ferry came through --
oblivious to the ferry, I suppose.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:12 PDT