Sea Kayakers, When I mentioned the modification I made to the hull of my kayak a while back, some people requested to see photos. The photos can now be seen at: www.rollordrown.com/hmod.html. If you missed or forgot the post, a brief summary of the reason for the hull modification is below. By the way, I've been asking a lot of skeg boaters if they have problems with their skegs, and most have said that their skegs jam frequently after surf launches and landings. I am surprised at how hush, hush this issue has been and why so many paddlers tolerate their skegs jamming. I guess that after dogging other kayakers for using "vulnerable" rudders, it is a little embarrassing for skeg boaters to admit that there skegs are a piece of junk. -------------------------------------------------------- In the fall of 2002, I bought a new Boreal Design Ellesmere. It is a great sea kayak, but its Achilles heel is the adjustable skeg. When the skeg can be adjusted, it works great. The problem is that during surf landings and launches on sandy beaches, sand is blasted into the skeg box by wave action and causes the skeg to jam and become useless. Adding to the problem is that the kayak is skeg dependant, due to about an inch and a half of rocker that starts at the skeg box and extends to the stern. This rocker allows the kayak to turn quickly, but it also prevents it from tracking well and causes weathercocking. I just couldn't have a kayak that is skeg dependant with a skeg that didn't work about half the time after a surf launch. I resolved the problem by removing the skeg, cutting out the skeg box (to add cargo space since I wasn't using the skeg anymore), and modifying the hull with epoxy and fiberglass, so that the inch and a half of rocker at the stern was gone. Now the stern end of the hull follows the natural keel line of the hull rather than suddenly sweeping upwards were the skeg box started. The kayak turns a little slower now, but the tracking and weathercocking is much improved. Just as importantly, I know exactly how my kayak is going to perform everytime I paddle it. The hull modification was finished with one-part polyurethane paint. Duane Strosaker Southern California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That is a brave a talented paddler. Nice job! ----- Original Message ----- > When I mentioned the modification I made to the hull of my kayak a while back, some people requested to see photos. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You're a true craftsman, Duane! Nicely done. How did you form/fair the attachment? Is it foam-cored? Solid/bomber/rubproof? Shawn __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn, I modified the hull by grinding off the gelcoat for a good bond with the epoxy. Then I laid a sheet of fiberglass already wetted with epoxy over the hull, with the fiberglass wrinkled up smaller than I wanted the modification. This kept the modification hollow. Then I filled in the low spots with cut up glass and epoxy, added layers of fiberglass, and sanded, repeating the cycle till I had the shape I wanted. It was a lot of work, about 20 hours. The modification is probably the strongest part of the whole kayak. The one-part polyurethane paint does scratch off, though, and the color match isn't perfect, but I am not one of those people who worship gelcoat anyway. It is nice to know that you don't have to settle for the kayak that the manufacturers make. Duane <<<How did you form/fair the attachment? Is it foam-cored? Solid/bomber/rubproof? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/15/2002 6:41:04 PM Central Standard Time, strosaker_at_cox.net writes: > I've been asking a lot of skeg boaters if > they have problems with their skegs, and most have said that their skegs > jam > frequently after surf launches and landings. I am surprised at how hush, > hush > this issue has been and why so many paddlers tolerate their skegs jamming. > I > guess that after dogging other kayakers for using "vulnerable" rudders, it > is > a little embarrassing for skeg boaters to admit that there skegs are a > piece > of junk. > Confessions of a former drop down skeg user: I'm breaking the silence! Too long have I asked other paddlers to dull their pfd mounted peanut butter spreaders, cheese slicers and salami cutters on my dirty, filthy gravel and mud filled skeg box. The retractable skeg on a former boat of mine jammed quite a bit. The device had little tolerance for gravel and filled up on launches where the stern dragged on the ground. The channel glassed into the gunnel that carried the skeg deploment slider wire actually broke when I pulled the slider too hard. I sold the boat and now have the integrated skeg hull on my Nordkapp Jubillee and am perfectly content. No, fellow paddlers, no more wet arms or pinched fingers from rafting up to me to clear a box I filled with as much gravel as I did my retinue with poor launching technique. Thanks, Duane, for raising the issue. unburdened chest, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Rob, Thanks for the skeg confession. I went to a Chris Duff slide show once, and I remember him saying that he ordered his NDK Explorer for the New Zealand trip without a skeg because there weren't reliable enough, among other reasons. Duane *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've gotten used to checking my skeg for pebbles after a beach launch, but the design certainly could be improved. What is needed is a flap to protect the skeg slot during launch -- a strip of polyethylene or UHMW, perhaps. I visualize a narrow slot at the forward end of the skeg slot with a couple of corrosion resistant screws to hold the strip in place, for surely the strip would have to be replaceable. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Have you suggested it to CD or anyone? It seems to me a big issue would be how to attach it so that the point of attachment isn't the weak spot. Maybe something recessed that uses an allen wrench to replace it. I can see it getting pulled off on a very regular basis if it isn't just right, but it is an appealing idea. So far I've had no problems with my Gulfstream skeg. Only one time did I have to return to the launch spot and dig a pebble out of the box. I check the skeg after every launch, just to make sure. I know it will be the time I forget that costs me pain. Joan In reply to Chuck Holst's: I've gotten used to checking my skeg for pebbles after a beach launch, but the design certainly could be improved. What is needed is a flap to protect the skeg slot during launch -- a strip of polyethylene or UHMW, perhaps. I visualize a narrow slot at the forward end of the skeg slot with a couple of corrosion resistant screws to hold the strip in place, for surely the strip would have to be replaceable. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> If you missed or forgot the post, a brief summary of the reason for the hull > modification is below. Duane, I read you summary and am confused. On the one hand you say the Boreal is a great boat, then you mention the things wrong with it, saying it needs a skeg and requires a hull modification. Can you elaborate? Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jerry, No kayak is perfect. But if I can take one that is pretty close and make a few modifications to match my preferences, then I'm doing pretty good. With the removal of the seat and adjustable skeg, and the installation of a custom foam seat and the modification of the hull so that the rocker in the stern is reduced, I am darn pleased with my Boreal Design Ellesmere. Sure, it would be nice if the designer and manufacturer had made the kayak exactly like I wanted it, but they can't suit everyone's preferences. I am glad to have been able to make the changes I wanted, and I'd do it all over again if I had too. Twenty-five hours of work to make the kayak exactly how I want it is pretty cheap in my book. It is not much different than taking a new car and putting some after-market parts on it. The car may be pretty good, but I still may want to make some changes to it. It's funny. When I was looking at pictures of the Ellesmere before buying it, I noticed the rocker in the stern and thought to myself that the design would be better and wouldn't even need the skeg if the rocker in the stern was reduced. Of course, it was the crappy skeg (old British style) that forced me to go ahead and make that change. Duane www.rollordrown.com/hmod.html << Duane, I read you summary and am confused. On the one hand you say the Boreal is a great boat, then you mention the things wrong with it, saying it needs a skeg and requires a hull modification. Can you elaborate? Jerry >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Joan Spinner [SMTP:jspinner_at_peoplepc.com] Have you suggested it to CD or anyone? It seems to me a big issue would be how to attach it so that the point of attachment isn't the weak spot. Maybe something recessed that uses an allen wrench to replace it. I can see it getting pulled off on a very regular basis if it isn't just right, but it is an appealing idea. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No, I thought of it just before I wrote it. Here are a couple of other thoughts: (1) The protective strip would have to be flexible enough not to interfere with the deployment of the skeg. (2) It could interfere with the hydrodynamics of the deployed skeg and add significant drag. The latter could doom the whole idea. On my to-do list is drilling a small hole in the skeg near the end that could be used to pry the skeg out with a screwdriver if there were a significant jam. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Holst wrote: >No, I thought of it just before I wrote it. Here are a couple of other >thoughts: (1) The protective strip would have to be flexible enough not to >interfere with the deployment of the skeg. (2) It could interfere with the >hydrodynamics of the deployed skeg and add significant drag. The latter >could doom the whole idea. > >On my to-do list is drilling a small hole in the skeg near the end that >could be used to pry the skeg out with a screwdriver if there were a >significant jam. > An idea and a question. Here's the question; I'm also about to drill a small hole in the tip of my skeg, it's only a piece of thick polyethelene or something similar, so the hole is the easy part. Has anyone had any experience with running a piece of fishing line through the skeg hole and making a small loop, so someone could come up along side and be able to reach under your stern and have something they could get a grip on to give the stuck skeg a yank. This has been recommended to me but I'd think it would pick up all sorts of weeds etc. and be a source of serious additional drag. I'm slow enough as it is. :-) The idea; Develop a sliding plate that retrackes into the hull as the skeg is deployed and when the skeg is raised the plate moves out of it's housing and covers the skeg slot completely, giving better hydrodynamic drag when the skeg is up. Very similar to the idea behind fairings over a planes landing gear storage wells. The control of the fairing plate could be ganged to the skeg control somehow, or directly to the skeg itself. However our simple skeg is getting more complicated now and has more failure modes. Anyone know what kind of additional drag the open skeg box opening adds when the skeg is deployed and retracted, what ranges, maybe, rules of thumb? John Blackburn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A friend of mine has a string attached to the skeg, through a hole in it. His is a Brit boat with a plastic skeg. He says it has never caught on anything but has come in handy when others had to fish his skeg loose while on the water. My Gulfie has a metal skeg and I haven't taken the time to mess with it because it has never been a problem. Woody had a lot of problems with his when the little pads that guide the skeg got sticky. He finally tore them out. Now the skeg vibrates at times but doesn't stick. On my to-do list is drilling a small hole in the skeg near the end that could be used to pry the skeg out with a screwdriver if there were a significant jam. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The small hole/ string idea works well. I have run a short piece of 1/16" ss rudder cable thru and made a loop that worked well and I've seen 1.5mm cord used, as well. This AND a skeg tool of some sort and you're all set. The idea of a flap or cover for the skeg box is a grand idea. If only we could figure out a SIMPLE way to do it that would be bombproof. Not sure on the drag created with a skeg box but I've heard it's substantial, hydro-dynamically speaking. steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> On my to-do list is drilling a small hole in the skeg near the end that > could be used to pry the skeg out with a screwdriver if there were a > significant jam. On my VCP Pintail the Skeg already has a small hole in it at the end. This is so you can thread a small cord through the hole so that your buddy can free a jammed skeg in seconds without tools! Does not help much when you are by yourself thought... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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