Ok, here's a tough one: My QCC kayak has a new 6 inch split in the hull deck seam. It is about a foot south of the rear hatch. On their website, QCC states: "We are so confident that if the seam on your QCC kayak ever fails we will simply replace your kayak with a brand new one, period!" When my first QCC seam split a year and a half ago after 3 years, they sent me a new boat--two actually, the first having been run into by a forklift at the trucking company. Needless to say, they aren't going to be happy when I call!!! You folks have seen my videos; do you think I'm abusing my boat beyond what's reasonable? Am I unreasonable to ask them to live up to their warrantee AGAIN? Should I cram the split with chewing gum and go on my merry way? I need the collective conscience of Paddlewise!!! Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Oct 25, 2007, at 12:21 PM, Mark Sanders wrote: > You folks have seen my videos; do you think I'm abusing my boat beyond > what's reasonable? No as long as the rest of the boat is staying intact. > Am I unreasonable to ask them to live up to their > warrantee AGAIN? No > Should I cram the split with chewing gum and go on my merry > way? No The facts are simple. It is possible but expensive to make a seam that will not fail. It can be made stronger than the rest of the boat. Seaming a boat properly is unpleasant and labor intensive. 97% of the population do fine with whatever job is done. So the companies that make good seams have to charge more for a feature that is useful only to a minority of their users and which most of their purchasers will not see or appreciate. One of those hard things to decide when in the commercial world. What they should do is offer a "heavy duty seam" boat, charge more for it and put the guarantee on that... But that "complicates" their marketing. But as long as they are making the claim that their seam is infallible, you should not feel guilty calling them on it. They learn something and you get the seam problem fixed. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Sanders wrote: > Ok, here's a tough one: > My QCC kayak has a new 6 inch split in the hull deck seam. It is about a > You folks have seen my videos; do you think I'm abusing my boat beyond > what's reasonable? Am I unreasonable to ask them to live up to their > warrantee AGAIN? Should I cram the split with chewing gum and go on my merry > way? Call, describe your use, and the split. They may decide that you are out of bounds, in which case I'd take it to a good surf shop and get them to fix it. I repaired a light-layup boat that had split both sides about two feet right at the coaming (the coaming had detached, also), and I repaired that boat. Never again. While you are at it, have them reinforce the inside of the seam with some roving, so this does not happen again. If you play with your boat in surf, it will need it! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If a manufacturer makes a guarantee, they should be expected to live up to it. No question. And no, I don't think you're doing anything unreasonable. You might want to take your videos off-line before you call them, though. ;) (Kidding!) Steve -- Steve Cramer Athens, GA http://www.savvypaddler.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> If a manufacturer makes a guarantee, they should be expected to live up > to it. No question. > > Steve Cramer I agree, but not all do, at least to the extent we would like them to. Take Palm of Pilot fame: The power button on my Palm TX stopped working two months after I bought it. The unit has a one-year warranty, but on checking around the Internet I discovered that (1) this is an old problem, (2) this is a common problem, (3) replacement units also tend to fail, and (4) the warranty does not restart when you get a brand-new replacent, thus your warranty runs out after one year regardless. So while it is possible to get a replacement within a year, if the replacement dies outside the original warranty period, you are out of luck. Meanwhile, I've reprogrammed one of the other switches to act as the power switch, which I actually like better. BTW, don't get one of these devices even slightly damp. That's why my Palm T3 died. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, I once owned a Waterstick white water paddle. Used in for surfing, playboating, and running the steep creeks I love so much. I, like you, am on the big side of average. I broke 3 paddles in one year. After the 3rd replacement (which I also broke, making a total of 4) the company rep, who was very nice, said something along the lines of "Well, after 3 paddles, we start thinking it's the paddler, not the paddle" That said, I replaced the paddle with a pair of Werner Paddles, and they have held up well after 3 full seasons of paddling. Including at least two crashes on rivers where I was shocked to roll up with a complete paddle. I think, in our heart of hearts, that we know the difference between abuse and use. If my Werner paddles had failed in either of the two hits I'm thinking of, I wouldn't have complained, and would have chalked it up to the cost of doing business. But the Waterstick paddles, 3/4 failed in what I would consider normal use. That said, several of your videos do seem to show you swimming frequently. Aside from direct rock contact, there isn't going to be much harder on a boat than a boat full of water, tossed in the surf. That's a lot of stress. I'd call them. Ask them. Be honest. Ask if they can build you something with triple taped seams. Also, I dropped a surf boat off with http://www.boardlady.com/ in Ventura last weekend. I haven't got it back, but she showed me some of her other work, and it was seriously impressive. Her website focuses mostly on boards, but her yard was filled with kayaks, waveskis, boards, and rowing skulls. I'll post pictures of the repair when I get it back next weekend. But you could talk to her about a repair and reinforcement. One thing, keep the boat dry until it's fixed. Chewing gum won't adequately seal it. Geoff ____________________________________ Geoff Jennings (530) 852-4754 - geoff_at_texaskilonewton.com http://www.kimandgeoff.com/ > You folks have seen my videos; do you think I'm abusing my boat beyond > what's reasonable? Am I unreasonable to ask them to live up to their > warrantee AGAIN? Should I cram the split with chewing gum and go on my > merry > way? > > I need the collective conscience of Paddlewise!!! > > Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
A couple months ago, I sent QCC a CD of my "greatest hits" on the water. I call it Ka POW!!! When I emailed them about my current split, I sent them my latest video from TAKS. So what I do in my kayak is well documented. I admit I swim a lot, but there haven't been any nasty contact with rocks that I would think might cause this kind of failure. Seems to me the pounding surf is the most I subject my boat to. I just wanted to get other opinions before I actually call them to hear theirs. It is rather ego lifting to think that my macho paddling is just too much for any kayak, but I think there are people doing a whole lot more macho stuff out there who have intact seams. I want to be fair and get what's reasonable. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Jennings Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Split Deck/Hull seam--Again! That said, several of your videos do seem to show you swimming frequently. Aside from direct rock contact, there isn't going to be much harder on a boat than a boat full of water, tossed in the surf. That's a lot of stress. I'd call them. Ask them. Be honest. Ask if they can build you something with triple taped seams. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>I just wanted to get other opinions > before > I actually call them to hear theirs. > [Steve Holtzman] Mark, When the boat gets hammered by a breaking wave, that's over and above what they are designed for, in my opinion. I just had a great conversation with Don Beale, who made my Greenland paddle. I bought it from him in December of 2004 and it broke in September of 2007 while I was trying to do a roll. Don thought it shouldn't have broken and he offered to replace it at no charge if that's what I thought. He also said if I felt that it had lived its normal life, than I should pay for a new paddle. He also said he was comfortable with anything between those two extremes. I suggested that although the paddle wasn't abused, he hadn't done anything wrong when he built it either. We decided to compromise at each of us paying for 1/2 the cost of a new paddle. BTW, I didn't even ask him about a "warranty", I just ordered a new paddle and that was his response after he shipped it. I think that would probably be a fair resolution for you with QCC. The other alternative would be to have a custom lay-up made by them or another boat manufacturer. Steve Holtzman Southern California _____________ NOD32 EMON 2617 (20071025) information _____________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Perhaps another solution would be to have the seam repaired and reinforced by a local repair shop, and have QCC pay for the repair. In this manner you don't waste a lot of time without a boat, keep the boat you are familiar with, get a reinforced boat and have the expense covered by the manufacturer. There is also saving in shipping and possible shipping damages, etc. My 3 pesos worth. Best Regards, Rafael El cayucochief Mexico. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I just had a great conversation with Don Beale, who made my Greenland > paddle. I bought it from him in December of 2004 and it broke in September > of 2007 while I was trying to do a roll. > > Steve Holtzman Greg Stamer says that in Greenland they say a paddle should be strong enough to chin yourself from, and though they admired the lightness of his red cedar paddle, they questioned its strength. Here in North America, we like those lightweight red cedar paddles, but maybe we should start making them out of pine -- or hickory! Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Here in North America, > we > like those lightweight red cedar paddles, but maybe we should start > making > them out of pine -- or hickory! > > Chuck Holst Maybe there's a way to turn my old DH Toksook into a GP. That paddle weighed a ton but was bullet proof. Steve Holtzman _____________ NOD32 EMON 2619 (20071026) information _____________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve, You should return that Toksook back to it's original design: boat anchor! -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net On Behalf Of Steve Holtzman Maybe there's a way to turn my old DH Toksook into a GP. That paddle weighed a ton but was bullet proof. Steve Holtzman *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, I am very impressed QCC stood behind their deck seam. Considering your use, I think it might be good to ask them to really beef up this one. Got to be a hassle for you to have a less-than-reliable boat while you wait for another one. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Dave, On Friday, October 26, 2007, at 6:04:22 PM PST, you wrote: > Mark, I am very impressed QCC stood behind their deck seam. > Considering your use, I think it might be good to ask them to really > beef up this one. Good idea. However... >From Mark's written, photo, and video descriptions of his "normal paddling" (I enjoy them all, Mark, by the way!), I really don't see him "abusing" his boat so badly, so it does make me wonder if there might be some issue with the QCC seams (though like most people, I am very impressed with their apparent level of customer service). My old CD Caribou has seen all sorts of "abuse" in surf, rock gardens, and sea caves, and though she has plenty of superficial scars to show for her many years (10+) of bouncy service (including many embarrassingly spectacular surf wipeouts), she's yet to split a seam. I know it's always a possibility, but so far, so good. -- Melissa *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Like Duane said, his seems have never split (yet). Seams like all that overlap doth a strong kayak make. Your unseamly experiences suggest rather strongly that seems - even in propriety, purpose/designed hull-to-deck joined kayaks, fail during water-in-boat surf capsizes. I'd submit that those capsized-boat-in-surf occasions with the ability of the boat to come out intact, should be part of a _sea_ kayak's pedigree. Nobody bashes around on their kayak like me (on a sea boat anyway, that is) and strong seems are an absolute necessity in my thinking. I haven't seen you in any really gnarly surf, so I hate to think what kind of damage might occur during those circumstnces. I did see a lot of your gear floating around though - no pieces of kayak yet. :-) I don't know if being a larger paddler is harder on the kayak or if there are cumulative effects over time due to that or other circumstances. I'm still toying with buying a new Nordkapp LV (just bought a new fridge, stove, granite counter, so broke again), and the fisrst thing I would do with a new boat if these options wern't avaliable would be to take out the seat, reinforce the inner seams, put on an outside seem (wider than the factory one), and add a keel strip. Then it would be ready for (my) real world kayaking and in every way, be "sea worthy." Or I could join Duane's tribe of do-it-yourself boat-from-wood kayak builders, and build somthing strong, light, and easily fitted out to my own specifications. Regardless, I'm disinchanted with the status quo of mickey-mouse factory-built kayaks, or at least thatse builders unwilling to offer alternatives or employ more space-age solutions/more elbow grease - whatever - to improve the weekest part of the kayak. The seems. Doug Lloyd post not edited >A couple months ago, I sent QCC a CD of my "greatest hits" on the water. I > call it Ka POW!!! When I emailed them about my current split, I sent them > my > latest video from TAKS. So what I do in my kayak is well documented. I > admit > I swim a lot, but there haven't been any nasty contact with rocks that I > would think might cause this kind of failure. Seems to me the pounding > surf > is the most I subject my boat to. I just wanted to get other opinions > before > I actually call them to hear theirs. > > It is rather ego lifting to think that my macho paddling is just too much > for any kayak, but I think there are people doing a whole lot more macho > stuff out there who have intact seams. > > I want to be fair and get what's reasonable. > > Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Maybe Mark could take up golf. Then the only split seams he would have to worry about would be in his nice Gary Player trousers. Bradford R. Crain ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Schade" <nick_at_guillemot-kayaks.com> To: "Mark Sanders" <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com>; "Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Split Deck/Hull seam--Again! What do you think? > Their guarantee sounds pretty straightforward, I would let them honor it. > Even if you are to blame, they said they would replace it "period". It > would actually be to their benefit if they do. Nothing builds respect for > a brand like honoring a simple guarantee. You will likely have very good > things to say about QCC if they honor their promise. > > > On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Mark Sanders wrote: > >> Ok, here's a tough one: >> My QCC kayak has a new 6 inch split in the hull deck seam. It is about a >> foot south of the rear hatch. >> On their website, QCC states: >> >> "We are so confident that if the seam on your QCC kayak ever fails we >> will >> simply replace your kayak with a brand new one, period!" >> > > Nick Schade > > Guillemot Kayaks *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I got the nickname "Seam Splitter" from my experience with my first boat. I tell people, no, it has nothing to do with my overburdened Farmer John! -----Original Message----- From: Brad Crain Maybe Mark could take up golf. Then the only split seams he would have to worry about would be in his nice Gary Player trousers. Bradford R. Crain *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, I can't imagine a manufacturer such as QCC wouldn't want to hear from you to at least talk about what is going on. Lots of small outfits would love to have the opportunity to address a problem, especially before it hits the internet. There are possibly other remies that would not necessitate a complete boat swap such as sending you a credit for having a glass pro do the work. As for swimming, don't worry about it, just keep working on it, but don't let that boat get away from you in the surf. Cheers, Rob G In a message dated 10/25/2007 2:42:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com writes: A couple months ago, I sent QCC a CD of my "greatest hits" on the water. I call it Ka POW!!! When I emailed them about my current split, I sent them my latest video from TAKS. So what I do in my kayak is well documented. I admit I swim a lot, but there haven't been any nasty contact with rocks that I would think might cause this kind of failure. Seems to me the pounding surf is the most I subject my boat to. I just wanted to get other opinions before I actually call them to hear theirs. It is rather ego lifting to think that my macho paddling is just too much for any kayak, but I think there are people doing a whole lot more macho stuff out there who have intact seams. I want to be fair and get what's reasonable. Mark ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark, The last time I checked the QCC website a couple years ago, they bragged about how tough their seam is and were highly critical of how other companies made their seams. Their tough seam and guarantee on it was one of their biggest selling points. I'd demand the kayak be replaced or get a full refund. If they don't like it, they can change the info on their website. I think it's crazy to guarantee a seam, period. Duane "No busted seams on my S&G's yet, but not saying it won't happen" Mark Sanders <sandmarks_at_ca.rr.com> wrote: Ok, here's a tough one: My QCC kayak has a new 6 inch split in the hull deck seam. It is about a foot south of the rear hatch. On their website, QCC states: "We are so confident that if the seam on your QCC kayak ever fails we will simply replace your kayak with a brand new one, period!" When my first QCC seam split a year and a half ago after 3 years, they sent me a new boat--two actually, the first having been run into by a forklift at the trucking company. Needless to say, they aren't going to be happy when I call!!! You folks have seen my videos; do you think I'm abusing my boat beyond what's reasonable? Am I unreasonable to ask them to live up to their warrantee AGAIN? Should I cram the split with chewing gum and go on my merry way? I need the collective conscience of Paddlewise!!! Mark Sanders *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Their guarantee sounds pretty straightforward, I would let them honor it. Even if you are to blame, they said they would replace it "period". It would actually be to their benefit if they do. Nothing builds respect for a brand like honoring a simple guarantee. You will likely have very good things to say about QCC if they honor their promise. On Oct 25, 2007, at 3:21 PM, Mark Sanders wrote: > Ok, here's a tough one: > My QCC kayak has a new 6 inch split in the hull deck seam. It is > about a > foot south of the rear hatch. > On their website, QCC states: > > "We are so confident that if the seam on your QCC kayak ever fails > we will > simply replace your kayak with a brand new one, period!" > Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just visited the QCC web site and read their warranty. Here it is: "Should the deck/hull seam fail in normal use while you own your kayak QCC will replace your kayak with a new QCC kayak of the identical model and features" They key words in this sentence are "in normal use". I haven't read through the entire site yet but I couldn't find anything that said or implied that their kayaks were suitable for the type of paddling you do. In fact, as near as I can tell, they call their kayaks "touring kayaks". And there is little question that after seeing your videos they could conclude that you are subjecting their products to something beyond "normal use". Now, they might honor that warranty anyway and chalk it up to "testing" but I wouldn't blame them if they didn't. Nor do I think that their warranty is "open-ended" unless there is some other wording that I have not come upon. In addition, I'm not a lawyer nor have I ever played one on TV. I have frequent (daily, lately) contact with lawyers though but even so my opinions are worth somewhat less than what you paid for them. (This, it might be said, often goes for the advice one gets from lawyers, too.) I think you should give them a chance to honor their warranty and if they don't then choose a reputable shop and have it fixed yourself. And then go look for a boat that is designed for the conditions to which you put your boat. I really don't know your size but maybe a Mariner Coaster in heavy-layup; that boat is certainly designed and built for the conditions you seem to like best. Mark Goff's advice about getting an HDPE boat would be good advice except that, in my opinion, there are no HDPE boats that would qualify with the possible exception of the Rock Hopper. If they made a Coaster in HDPE (I can see Matt Broze rolling his eyes now) that would be a different story. Or maybe Duane can come up with a suitable design for us bigger people. Craig Jungers Moses Lake, WA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, Really, really big guys could always build the 20 foot double as a single. I recommend the Point Bennett 18 single for up to a 210 pound paddler, but that's only a max "ideal" weight. Duane http://www.rollordrown.com/kayak/index.html Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: Or maybe Duane can come up with a suitable design for us bigger people. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well, I dreaded calling QCC, but things couldn't have gone better for me. Phil had received my email with pics of the damage. I simply asked if my warrantee was still valid and he said yes and he'd try to get my new boat on the schedule as soon as possible. You certainly can't ask for more than that, but you're right, I didn't want to ask for more than I should. It is a bit confusing, but there are two places on the QCC website where they discuss there seams and the warrantee on them. As Craig says, one states "normal use". That seems a reasonable criterion and one I thought they might have some concerns with. The other page states: "Kayaks can be subjected to tremendous force from everything from breaking waves crashing on the deck to being tied on a rack and going down the highway at 65 mph.....We are so confident that if the seam on your QCC kayak ever fails we will simply replace your kayak with a brand new one, period!" http://www.qcckayaks.com/kayaks/hulltodeck.asp This seems a much stronger commitment to their seam technology as well as a more specific list of what are normal conditions. I was willing to discuss what they considered normal use and other options for repair if they felt I was out of those ideals. But I don't think I was. QCC has once again, as in the past proved to go beyond what I'd ever expect from any kayak company. I just hope I never have to ask them to do so again! It's going to take a week of paddling my new shiny boat to get over the guilt!!! Thanks everybody for all the input. Mark Sanders www.sandmarks.net -----Original Message----- From: Craig Jungers I just visited the QCC web site and read their warranty. Here it is: "Should the deck/hull seam fail in normal use while you own your kayak QCC will replace your kayak with a new QCC kayak of the identical model and features" They key words in this sentence are "in normal use". I haven't read through the entire site yet but I couldn't find anything that said or implied that their kayaks were suitable for the type of paddling you do. In fact, as near as I can tell, they call their kayaks "touring kayaks". And there is little question that after seeing your videos they could conclude that you are subjecting their products to something beyond "normal use". *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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