A long time ago someone posted information about shoulder exercises specific to paddling. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, but was able to paddle somewhat last fall for the first time in several seasons. I thought that while it is winter here in Canada, it would be a good time to use the exercises for strengthening. Does anyone have a good set of paddling shoulder exercises? John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm not sure there are specific ones for paddling and if there were it would be foolish to do them in isolation apart from a proper upper, lower and back/abdominal regime of weight lifting and cardio training. Certainly off season fitness can prep you better for paddling season and I like a rowing machine myself which gives such a good overall workout. When I used to do heavy weather paddling I certainly found some exercises gave me superior results and that included lat pull downs (nothing behind the head though), pull overs and tricep pulldowns. I like free weights as much as possible; certainly one arm rows are a basic no brainer, and all that's needed are a bench, one dumbbell you alternate from the right arm then left, and keep your back level with the bench. I also like the dumbbell press (and inclined too) rather than bench pressing with a bar. You can do flys too, but too much weight may injure extensor muscles of the forearm and hurt the inner elbow workings, so be careful. Dumbbell curls and front raises can't hurt paddling performance just don't get too greedy and start using body momentum or there's no point. Figure out your own abdominal routine, one you like and will do. Crunches on the bench, exercise ball, on a matt, whatever. Just don't buy one of those ab doers!!! Lower body resistance training is probably helpful too; anything with squats, curls and extensions. Do keep limbered up with a stretching regime, however. I like to build up so I can hold the bridge position for three minutes without any body or limb shaking. This really strengthens your core and can be done anywhere at any time. Be so very careful not to do anything that compesses lower lumbar discs unduly. Slouching while sea touring can cause cumulative degradation and one needs to be careful as one ages. For specific shoulder strengthening after surgery I'd add in pulley or rubber band work (and now that I'm older and can't do heavy weights without injury potential, I'll be doing this regularly as I've had numerous shoulder procedures for impingement. I'd even do this before a weight regime and then go very slow indeed. Nothing heavy overhead. Anything that isolated the rotator cuff is especially useful to me. Don't forget ankle strength (important for me when I used to carry my over 100 pound Nordy over uneven terrain. Stand in place on one ankle and balance for as long as you can. Alternate between ankles. Do it while waiting for a bus, brushing teeth, whenever you want. Good balance exercise too. Pre-paddler routines can be important too. Here's a primer: http://www.seakayakermag.com/Resources/Exercise.pdf Okay, I gotta go to bed, up at 5:00 am to the gym before work. Was up late watching the Grammy Awards on the PVR. Way to go Adele! Rolling in The Deep! Oh yeah! My favorite deep water rolling song. Must get in shape... Doug A long time ago someone posted information about shoulder exercises specific to paddling. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, but was able to paddle somewhat last fall for the first time in several seasons. I thought that while it is winter here in Canada, it would be a good time to use the exercises for strengthening. Does anyone have a good set of paddling shoulder exercises? John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On 13/02/2012 3:57 AM, Doug Lloyd wrote: > I'm not sure there are specific ones for paddling and if there were it would > be foolish to do them in isolation apart from a proper upper, lower and > back/abdominal regime of weight lifting and cardio training. Certainly off > season fitness can prep you better for paddling season and I like a rowing > machine myself which gives such a good overall workout. When I used to do > heavy weather paddling I certainly found some exercises gave me superior > results and that included lat pull downs (nothing behind the head though), > pull overs and tricep pulldowns. I like free weights as much as possible; > certainly one arm rows are a basic no brainer, and all that's needed are a > bench, one dumbbell you alternate from the right arm then left, and keep > your back level with the bench. I also like the dumbbell press (and inclined > too) rather than bench pressing with a bar. You can do flys too, but too > much weight may injure extensor muscles of the forearm and hurt the inner > elbow workings, so be careful. Dumbbell curls and front raises can't hurt > paddling performance just don't get too greedy and start using body momentum > or there's no point. Figure out your own abdominal routine, one you like and > will do. Crunches on the bench, exercise ball, on a matt, whatever. Just > don't buy one of those ab doers!!! Lower body resistance training is > probably helpful too; anything with squats, curls and extensions. Do keep > limbered up with a stretching regime, however. > > I like to build up so I can hold the bridge position for three minutes > without any body or limb shaking. This really strengthens your core and can > be done anywhere at any time. Be so very careful not to do anything that > compesses lower lumbar discs unduly. Slouching while sea touring can cause > cumulative degradation and one needs to be careful as one ages. > > For specific shoulder strengthening after surgery I'd add in pulley or > rubber band work (and now that I'm older and can't do heavy weights without > injury potential, I'll be doing this regularly as I've had numerous shoulder > procedures for impingement. I'd even do this before a weight regime and then > go very slow indeed. Nothing heavy overhead. Anything that isolated the > rotator cuff is especially useful to me. Don't forget ankle strength > (important for me when I used to carry my over 100 pound Nordy over uneven > terrain. Stand in place on one ankle and balance for as long as you can. > Alternate between ankles. Do it while waiting for a bus, brushing teeth, > whenever you want. Good balance exercise too. > > Pre-paddler routines can be important too. Here's a primer: > > http://www.seakayakermag.com/Resources/Exercise.pdf > > Okay, I gotta go to bed, up at 5:00 am to the gym before work. Was up late > watching the Grammy Awards on the PVR. Way to go Adele! Rolling in The Deep! > Oh yeah! My favorite deep water rolling song. Must get in shape... > > Doug > > > A long time ago someone posted information about shoulder exercises > specific to paddling. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, but > was able to paddle somewhat last fall for the first time in several > seasons. I thought that while it is winter here in Canada, it would be a > good time to use the exercises for strengthening. Does anyone have a > good set of paddling shoulder exercises? > > John I've had physio on both my shoulders (at different times) and one of the exercises that I was given to help build up the rotator cup area involved those elastic bands you can buy at health stores. Standing sideways to the attachment point, with the band horizontal to the ground, and your arm bent at the elbow so the forearm is also parallel to the ground, swing the wrist out away from the attachment point. You keep your forearm parallel to the ground at all times. Repeat the exercise on the other arm: one arm pulling the elastic out past your stomach and the other pulling the elastic in toward your stomach. Then turn your body 180 degrees and repeat. -- Darryl *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sue messed up her shoulder cross-country skiing in November of 2010 and after her surgery we installed a pulley in a convenient spot on the roof of one of the rooms in our house and she used that at home. The pulley can also be used to lift a weight while seated to approximate a paddle stroke. I, personally have a special morning routine. It goes like this: one, two... one, two... one, two.... now the other eyelid... one, two.......... Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, My father in law has the same set up (a real pain in my workshop, err, well it is his garage) and this was great getting the shoulder to work again for him as you use your other arm to help pull via the pulley and restore movement. BTW, I was doing my standing on one foot in church the other day. Someone looked at me like I was odd or something while we were signing. I thought it was a good idea in church to always keep one foot on the ground... DL Sue messed up her shoulder cross-country skiing in November of 2010 and after her surgery we installed a pulley in a convenient spot on the roof of one of the rooms in our house and she used that at home. The pulley can also be used to lift a weight while seated to approximate a paddle stroke. I, personally have a special morning routine. It goes like this: one, two... one, two... one, two.... now the other eyelid... one, two.......... Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, You made me smile. :) I wish you could see my shop... I have pulleys in the rafters and can pull 18' kayaks straight up and store them vertically with the sterns sitting on a nice block of styrofoam. Really makes it great for storing extra boats. Not that I have any extras, mind you. :P Hope that new treatment is doing the trick for Yvonne. I seriously miss reading about your extreme paddling adventures on Paddlewise. I am trying to talk Pam into a weekend paddle trip into the San Juans this summer but she keeps saying that she has to work... for some reason. Craig On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Craig, > > My father in law has the same set up (a real pain in my workshop, err, well > it is his garage) and this was great getting the shoulder to work again for > him as you use your other arm to help pull via the pulley and restore > movement. BTW, I was doing my standing on one foot in church the other day. > Someone looked at me like I was odd or something while we were signing. I > thought it was a good idea in church to always keep one foot on the > ground... > > DL > > > Sue messed up her shoulder cross-country skiing in November of 2010 and > after her surgery we installed a pulley in a convenient spot on the roof of > one of the rooms in our house and she used that at home. The pulley can > also be used to lift a weight while seated to approximate a paddle stroke. > > I, personally have a special morning routine. It goes like this: one, > two... one, two... one, two.... now the other eyelid... one, two.......... > > Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I agree with Doug that an overall exercise program is desireable, rather than focusing on one muscle group. A personal trainer might be helpful if you can afford it, even if for just a few sessions. And as Doug suggested, start light and let your body build up gradually. You're training for the long haul. Brad On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > I'm not sure there are specific ones for paddling and if there were it > would > be foolish to do them in isolation apart from a proper upper, lower and > back/abdominal regime of weight lifting and cardio training. Certainly off > season fitness can prep you better for paddling season and I like a rowing > machine myself which gives such a good overall workout. When I used to do > heavy weather paddling I certainly found some exercises gave me superior > results and that included lat pull downs (nothing behind the head though), > pull overs and tricep pulldowns. I like free weights as much as possible; > certainly one arm rows are a basic no brainer, and all that's needed are a > bench, one dumbbell you alternate from the right arm then left, and keep > your back level with the bench. I also like the dumbbell press (and > inclined > too) rather than bench pressing with a bar. You can do flys too, but too > much weight may injure extensor muscles of the forearm and hurt the inner > elbow workings, so be careful. Dumbbell curls and front raises can't hurt > paddling performance just don't get too greedy and start using body > momentum > or there's no point. Figure out your own abdominal routine, one you like > and > will do. Crunches on the bench, exercise ball, on a matt, whatever. Just > don't buy one of those ab doers!!! Lower body resistance training is > probably helpful too; anything with squats, curls and extensions. Do keep > limbered up with a stretching regime, however. > > I like to build up so I can hold the bridge position for three minutes > without any body or limb shaking. This really strengthens your core and can > be done anywhere at any time. Be so very careful not to do anything that > compesses lower lumbar discs unduly. Slouching while sea touring can cause > cumulative degradation and one needs to be careful as one ages. > > For specific shoulder strengthening after surgery I'd add in pulley or > rubber band work (and now that I'm older and can't do heavy weights without > injury potential, I'll be doing this regularly as I've had numerous > shoulder > procedures for impingement. I'd even do this before a weight regime and > then > go very slow indeed. Nothing heavy overhead. Anything that isolated the > rotator cuff is especially useful to me. Don't forget ankle strength > (important for me when I used to carry my over 100 pound Nordy over uneven > terrain. Stand in place on one ankle and balance for as long as you can. > Alternate between ankles. Do it while waiting for a bus, brushing teeth, > whenever you want. Good balance exercise too. > > Pre-paddler routines can be important too. Here's a primer: > > http://www.seakayakermag.com/Resources/Exercise.pdf > > Okay, I gotta go to bed, up at 5:00 am to the gym before work. Was up late > watching the Grammy Awards on the PVR. Way to go Adele! Rolling in The > Deep! > Oh yeah! My favorite deep water rolling song. Must get in shape... > > Doug > > > A long time ago someone posted information about shoulder exercises > specific to paddling. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, but > was able to paddle somewhat last fall for the first time in several > seasons. I thought that while it is winter here in Canada, it would be a > good time to use the exercises for strengthening. Does anyone have a > good set of paddling shoulder exercises? > > John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm doing pretty good at the gym getting back in shape for long-haul paddling while being careful with my own shoulder problems but I can't get rid of this sciatica pain down my right buttock and leg (to the point they have extreme pins-and-needles type sensation every day now). While I know Brad thinks I'm a pain in the butt anyway, heh heh, I was wondering if anyone else has found relief and what did you do to gain it. I stretch every night now and do light yoga. I know Chris Duff eschewed his Nordkapp eventually, partially due to sciatica and the fact the narrow confines of the boat helped irritate his malady, but I haven't even got into a boat in a while and am getting worse. Any clues? I see the doc next week. Maybe a compressed disc in the route cause as my back is bad too. Doug I agree with Doug that an overall exercise program is desireable, rather than focusing on one muscle group. A personal trainer might be helpful if you can afford it, even if for just a few sessions. And as Doug suggested, start light and let your body build up gradually. You're training for the long haul. Brad On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > I'm not sure there are specific ones for paddling and if there were it > would > be foolish to do them in isolation apart from a proper upper, lower and > back/abdominal regime of weight lifting and cardio training. Certainly off > season fitness can prep you better for paddling season and I like a rowing > machine myself which gives such a good overall workout. When I used to do > heavy weather paddling I certainly found some exercises gave me superior > results and that included lat pull downs (nothing behind the head though), > pull overs and tricep pulldowns. I like free weights as much as possible; > certainly one arm rows are a basic no brainer, and all that's needed are a > bench, one dumbbell you alternate from the right arm then left, and keep > your back level with the bench. I also like the dumbbell press (and > inclined > too) rather than bench pressing with a bar. You can do flys too, but too > much weight may injure extensor muscles of the forearm and hurt the inner > elbow workings, so be careful. Dumbbell curls and front raises can't hurt > paddling performance just don't get too greedy and start using body > momentum > or there's no point. Figure out your own abdominal routine, one you like > and > will do. Crunches on the bench, exercise ball, on a matt, whatever. Just > don't buy one of those ab doers!!! Lower body resistance training is > probably helpful too; anything with squats, curls and extensions. Do keep > limbered up with a stretching regime, however. > > I like to build up so I can hold the bridge position for three minutes > without any body or limb shaking. This really strengthens your core and can > be done anywhere at any time. Be so very careful not to do anything that > compesses lower lumbar discs unduly. Slouching while sea touring can cause > cumulative degradation and one needs to be careful as one ages. > > For specific shoulder strengthening after surgery I'd add in pulley or > rubber band work (and now that I'm older and can't do heavy weights without > injury potential, I'll be doing this regularly as I've had numerous > shoulder > procedures for impingement. I'd even do this before a weight regime and > then > go very slow indeed. Nothing heavy overhead. Anything that isolated the > rotator cuff is especially useful to me. Don't forget ankle strength > (important for me when I used to carry my over 100 pound Nordy over uneven > terrain. Stand in place on one ankle and balance for as long as you can. > Alternate between ankles. Do it while waiting for a bus, brushing teeth, > whenever you want. Good balance exercise too. > > Pre-paddler routines can be important too. Here's a primer: > > http://www.seakayakermag.com/Resources/Exercise.pdf > > Okay, I gotta go to bed, up at 5:00 am to the gym before work. Was up late > watching the Grammy Awards on the PVR. Way to go Adele! Rolling in The > Deep! > Oh yeah! My favorite deep water rolling song. Must get in shape... > > Doug > > > A long time ago someone posted information about shoulder exercises > specific to paddling. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, but > was able to paddle somewhat last fall for the first time in several > seasons. I thought that while it is winter here in Canada, it would be a > good time to use the exercises for strengthening. Does anyone have a > good set of paddling shoulder exercises? > > John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed. Doug Lloyd wrote: I know Chris Duff eschewed his Nordkapp eventually, partially due to sciatica and the fact the narrow confines of the boat helped irritate his malady, but I haven't even got into a boat in a while and am getting worse. Any clues? I see the doc next week. Maybe a compressed disc is the root cause as my back is bad too. Me: I saw a physical therapist after a weird muscle spasm messed up my leg. She treated it as if it were sciatica (maybe it is - I don't know) and gave me some exercises and stretches that have kept me symptom-free for three years now, as long as I keep up with the exercises. The main one is to lie on my back with both knees up. I then rotate both knees to the side until the outside one touches the floor. I go to each side 50 times. Another is to get on my hands and knees. I hump my back up like an angry cat while dropping my chin to my chest. Then I lift my head and arch my back so my belly is lower than my butt. The goal is to feel a lot of flexibility in the spine around the pelvis. Repeat 25 times. Another is to lie on my stomach with both hands flat on the floor under my chest. I lift my torso using only my arms, no trunk muslces. This stretches the pelvis area. 25 reps. Then really serious hamstring stretches. Three times a week I also do the whole-body stretching routine I put into a handout a while ago. It is included below. Jim Tibensky Being flexible is a great thing for kayakers. It gives you a wider range of motion and can help prevent injuries. This is a routine I have used for many years with good results. It emphasizes the hamstrings and lower back but includes other important paddling-related parts of the body. A Few Ideas About Good Stretching: Only use whatever muscles are needed for the stretch. Relax all the others. For instance, in Stretch 1, below, you should not feel any tightness in your quadriceps if you put your hands on them while doing the stretch. A good way to relax all your muscles other than the ones needed for the stretch is to keep your jaw loose during the process. Drooling is a good sign that you are relaxed! Keep breathing!! Do not hold your breath during any stretch. Hold each stretch for at least ten seconds and then increase it a little. Never stretch to the point of pain. Your muscles will start to contract in order to save the joints and you will be fighting yourself. Some of the stretches in this routine are repetitive. That is deliberate, in order to give a good loosening up to important parts of the body. The Routine 1. Hamstrings. Sit on floor. Keep the back straight, relax the quadriceps and lean forward. 2. Sitting Groin. Sitting, bring the soles of your feet together. Put your hands around your feet, your elbows resting on your knees. Lean forward with your back straight. 3. Deep Breaths. Still sitting, put your left hand on your right shoulder and vice versa. Drop your chin to your chest and take two HUGE, DEEP breaths. Switch your arms and repeat. 4. The Rack. Lie on your back. Extend your arms and your legs. Reach your hands up as far from your body as possible. Reach down with feet. Relax for a few seconds and repeat. 5. The Z. Lie on your back. With your hands wrapped around your right knee, pull your right leg up into your chest. Keep head down. Straighten right leg and repeat with left. Then both knees to chest. 6. Leg Over Leg. Lie on your back with your fingers interlaced behind your head. Put both knees into the air with your feet flat on the floor. Pick up your right leg and cross it over the left. Using your right leg, pull your left leg over toward the floor on your right. Your torso remains flat on the floor, your lower body twists. Relax all the muscles not needed for the stretch. Put knees back in the air and repeat with left leg over the right, pulling the lower body to the left. 7. Back Flattener, Shoulder Pincher. Lie on your back with your fingers laced behind your neck, knees in the air and feet flat on the floor. Tighten your butt muscles while also tightening your abs to push the small of your back into the floor. At the same time pinch your shoulder blades together pushing your elbows into the floor. 8. The Chiropractor. On your back with your fingers interlaced behind your head. Put both knees in the air, feet flat on the floor. Using only your arms, slowly pull your head forward until you feel a stretch. Be sure to relax the neck and back muscles. Hold for ten seconds, relax and repeat. 9. Modified Rack. Lie on your back. Extend your left arm above your head and your right arm alongside your body. Reach your hands in opposite directions. Relax for a few seconds and repeat with right arm above head and left arm alongside. 10. Repeat Z. Do number 5 again but this time, when pulling both knees to the chest, lift your head to touch your knees, holding this position for ten seconds or more. Keep breathing. 11. Figure 4. Lie on back. Lift right knee to a 90 degree angle and, using your left hand on your right thigh, pull the leg over your left leg and pull the knee down toward the floor. Straighten your right arm away from the shoulder. Keeping your head and shoulders on the floor, look at your right hand. Relax and switch legs and repeat. 12. Sitting 4. Sit up. Put the sole of your right foot into the inside of your left knee. Keep the left leg straight. Put your right hand on the outside of your left knee. Turning your torso, reach your left hand as far behind you as possible, pulling with the right hand and looking over the left shoulder. Relax, switch sides and repeat. 13. The Pretzel. Sit up. Put the sole of your right foot into the inside of your left knee. Keep the left leg straight. Put your left hand on your right knee. Put your right hand on your left ankle. Turning your head, look behind you under your right armpit, pulling with the right hand. Relax, switch sides, repeat. 14. The Cat. Get up on your hands and knees. Bow down, keeping your arms straight, until your elbows are touching the floor. Your butt should be straight up in the air. 15. Crazy Cat. Get up on your hands and knees. Point your fingers towards your knees with your thumbs pointing out. Keep your palms flat and lean back until you feel a good stretch. Relax and repeat. 16. Sky Reach. Sit and extend your arms overhead with your wrists crossed and palms touching each other. Stretch up and slightly back. 17. Horizon Reach. Sit and extend your arms straight out at shoulder level, palms out, fingers locked. 18. Dislocator. Sit and hold your left arm across your body with a 90 degree bend in the elbow. Using your right hand on the left elbow, pull gently across your chest toward your right shoulder. Relax, switch arms, repeat. 19. Super Dislocator. Sit and put your left arm across your chest at shoulder level. Wrap your right arm around the left elbow, right hand pointing straight up. Put your right palm onto your right cheek. Turn your torso to the right. Relax, switch arms and repeat. 20. Shoulder 4. Sit and put your arms overhead. Hold the elbow of your left arm with your right hand and let the left forearm dangle behind your back. Gently pull the left elbow behind the head. Relax, switch and repeat. 21. Shoulder Ultra. Sit and reach behind your head and down as far as possible with your left hand. Reach your right arm behind your back and grab the fingers of your left hand. Hold as long as comfortable. Relax, switch and repeat. If you canbt lock your fingers, use a towel and move your hands on the towel to increase the stretch. 22. Another Sky Reach. Sit and reach both arms overhead as far as possible with the fingers interlaced and palms up. 23. Neck Stretch. Sit and lean your head sideways toward your left shoulder. Reach behind you and, with your left hand, pull your right arm down and across your back. Relax, switch sides and repeat. 24. Strappado. Sit and reach behind your back and grab your wrist with the other hand. Lift your arms behind you while keeping your chest out and chin in. 25. Repeat 1. 26. Diagonal 4. Sit with your legs straight out. Put your right foot on the outside of your left knee, bending your right leg. Put your left elbow on the outside of your right knee and reach back putting your right hand on the floor as far behind you as possible. Look over your right shoulder. Relax, switch and repeat. 27. Meltdown. Stand up. In this order collapse slowly to the floor: drop your head, then stoop your shoulders and back, bend at the waist, put your hands on the floor, bend your knees. Then, very slowly, reverse the process until you are standing straight up again. Breathe throughout. Jim Tibensky with a lot of help from Stretching by Bob Anderson, Shelter Publications *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Jim, perfect. Already doing some of these. Will add some more now. Can I just get a new body please? Maybe be 18 again... On Wed. Doug Lloyd wrote: I know Chris Duff eschewed his Nordkapp eventually, partially due to sciatica and the fact the narrow confines of the boat helped irritate his malady, but I haven't even got into a boat in a while and am getting worse. Any clues? I see the doc next week. Maybe a compressed disc is the root cause as my back is bad too. Me: I saw a physical therapist after a weird muscle spasm messed up my leg. She treated it as if it were sciatica (maybe it is - I don't know) and gave me some exercises and stretches that have kept me symptom-free for three years now, as long as I keep up with the exercises. The main one is to lie on my back with both knees up. I then rotate both knees to the side until the outside one touches the floor. I go to each side 50 times. Another is to get on my hands and knees. I hump my back up like an angry cat while dropping my chin to my chest. Then I lift my head and arch my back so my belly is lower than my butt. The goal is to feel a lot of flexibility in the spine around the pelvis. Repeat 25 times. Another is to lie on my stomach with both hands flat on the floor under my chest. I lift my torso using only my arms, no trunk muslces. This stretches the pelvis area. 25 reps. Then really serious hamstring stretches. Three times a week I also do the whole-body stretching routine I put into a handout a while ago. It is included below. Jim Tibensky Being flexible is a great thing for kayakers. It gives you a wider range of motion and can help prevent injuries. This is a routine I have used for many years with good results. It emphasizes the hamstrings and lower back but includes other important paddling-related parts of the body. A Few Ideas About Good Stretching: Only use whatever muscles are needed for the stretch. Relax all the others. For instance, in Stretch 1, below, you should not feel any tightness in your quadriceps if you put your hands on them while doing the stretch. A good way to relax all your muscles other than the ones needed for the stretch is to keep your jaw loose during the process. Drooling is a good sign that you are relaxed! Keep breathing!! Do not hold your breath during any stretch. Hold each stretch for at least ten seconds and then increase it a little. Never stretch to the point of pain. Your muscles will start to contract in order to save the joints and you will be fighting yourself. Some of the stretches in this routine are repetitive. That is deliberate, in order to give a good loosening up to important parts of the body. The Routine 1. Hamstrings. Sit on floor. Keep the back straight, relax the quadriceps and lean forward. 2. Sitting Groin. Sitting, bring the soles of your feet together. Put your hands around your feet, your elbows resting on your knees. Lean forward with your back straight. 3. Deep Breaths. Still sitting, put your left hand on your right shoulder and vice versa. Drop your chin to your chest and take two HUGE, DEEP breaths. Switch your arms and repeat. 4. The Rack. Lie on your back. Extend your arms and your legs. Reach your hands up as far from your body as possible. Reach down with feet. Relax for a few seconds and repeat. 5. The Z. Lie on your back. With your hands wrapped around your right knee, pull your right leg up into your chest. Keep head down. Straighten right leg and repeat with left. Then both knees to chest. 6. Leg Over Leg. Lie on your back with your fingers interlaced behind your head. Put both knees into the air with your feet flat on the floor. Pick up your right leg and cross it over the left. Using your right leg, pull your left leg over toward the floor on your right. Your torso remains flat on the floor, your lower body twists. Relax all the muscles not needed for the stretch. Put knees back in the air and repeat with left leg over the right, pulling the lower body to the left. 7. Back Flattener, Shoulder Pincher. Lie on your back with your fingers laced behind your neck, knees in the air and feet flat on the floor. Tighten your butt muscles while also tightening your abs to push the small of your back into the floor. At the same time pinch your shoulder blades together pushing your elbows into the floor. 8. The Chiropractor. On your back with your fingers interlaced behind your head. Put both knees in the air, feet flat on the floor. Using only your arms, slowly pull your head forward until you feel a stretch. Be sure to relax the neck and back muscles. Hold for ten seconds, relax and repeat. 9. Modified Rack. Lie on your back. Extend your left arm above your head and your right arm alongside your body. Reach your hands in opposite directions. Relax for a few seconds and repeat with right arm above head and left arm alongside. 10. Repeat Z. Do number 5 again but this time, when pulling both knees to the chest, lift your head to touch your knees, holding this position for ten seconds or more. Keep breathing. 11. Figure 4. Lie on back. Lift right knee to a 90 degree angle and, using your left hand on your right thigh, pull the leg over your left leg and pull the knee down toward the floor. Straighten your right arm away from the shoulder. Keeping your head and shoulders on the floor, look at your right hand. Relax and switch legs and repeat. 12. Sitting 4. Sit up. Put the sole of your right foot into the inside of your left knee. Keep the left leg straight. Put your right hand on the outside of your left knee. Turning your torso, reach your left hand as far behind you as possible, pulling with the right hand and looking over the left shoulder. Relax, switch sides and repeat. 13. The Pretzel. Sit up. Put the sole of your right foot into the inside of your left knee. Keep the left leg straight. Put your left hand on your right knee. Put your right hand on your left ankle. Turning your head, look behind you under your right armpit, pulling with the right hand. Relax, switch sides, repeat. 14. The Cat. Get up on your hands and knees. Bow down, keeping your arms straight, until your elbows are touching the floor. Your butt should be straight up in the air. 15. Crazy Cat. Get up on your hands and knees. Point your fingers towards your knees with your thumbs pointing out. Keep your palms flat and lean back until you feel a good stretch. Relax and repeat. 16. Sky Reach. Sit and extend your arms overhead with your wrists crossed and palms touching each other. Stretch up and slightly back. 17. Horizon Reach. Sit and extend your arms straight out at shoulder level, palms out, fingers locked. 18. Dislocator. Sit and hold your left arm across your body with a 90 degree bend in the elbow. Using your right hand on the left elbow, pull gently across your chest toward your right shoulder. Relax, switch arms, repeat. 19. Super Dislocator. Sit and put your left arm across your chest at shoulder level. Wrap your right arm around the left elbow, right hand pointing straight up. Put your right palm onto your right cheek. Turn your torso to the right. Relax, switch arms and repeat. 20. Shoulder 4. Sit and put your arms overhead. Hold the elbow of your left arm with your right hand and let the left forearm dangle behind your back. Gently pull the left elbow behind the head. Relax, switch and repeat. 21. Shoulder Ultra. Sit and reach behind your head and down as far as possible with your left hand. Reach your right arm behind your back and grab the fingers of your left hand. Hold as long as comfortable. Relax, switch and repeat. If you canbt lock your fingers, use a towel and move your hands on the towel to increase the stretch. 22. Another Sky Reach. Sit and reach both arms overhead as far as possible with the fingers interlaced and palms up. 23. Neck Stretch. Sit and lean your head sideways toward your left shoulder. Reach behind you and, with your left hand, pull your right arm down and across your back. Relax, switch sides and repeat. 24. Strappado. Sit and reach behind your back and grab your wrist with the other hand. Lift your arms behind you while keeping your chest out and chin in. 25. Repeat 1. 26. Diagonal 4. Sit with your legs straight out. Put your right foot on the outside of your left knee, bending your right leg. Put your left elbow on the outside of your right knee and reach back putting your right hand on the floor as far behind you as possible. Look over your right shoulder. Relax, switch and repeat. 27. Meltdown. Stand up. In this order collapse slowly to the floor: drop your head, then stoop your shoulders and back, bend at the waist, put your hands on the floor, bend your knees. Then, very slowly, reverse the process until you are standing straight up again. Breathe throughout. Jim Tibensky with a lot of help from Stretching by Bob Anderson, Shelter Publications *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thursday Doug Lloyd wrote: Thanks Jim, perfect. Already doing some of these. Will add some more now. Can I just get a new body please? Maybe be 18 again... I'll be thanking you as soon as you figure out the new body thing. I really thought all my self-care would protect me from the usual maladies of lesser mortals. But 45 years of hard paddling has caught up and left me in the dust. But still paddling . . . Jim *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Good thing I've been pacing myself for so long!! I've been trying to be good though, down to my lowest weight in 15 years, but I'm supposed to be at the GGSKS right now, but came down with a bad cold that's plagued me a lot this year. Mark On 2/17/2012 10:25 AM, Jim wrote: > But 45 years of hard paddling has caught up and left > me in the dust. But still paddling . . . *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> On 2/17/2012 10:25 AM, Jim wrote: > >> But 45 years of hard paddling has caught up and left >> me in the dust. But still paddling . . . >> > As I gallop towards 70 years of age I have found the biggest factor for me is arthritis. No amount of exercise alleviates the pain... and it seems to be almost random in when the pain strikes... but not where. And one of the spots for me is in the hands... especially the thumb. I never noticed how big a role the thumb joint plays in paddling 'til arthritis kicked in. Except for this... my paddling is mostly pain-free. Arthritis pain is controllable to some extent with meds but nothing seems to stop it entirely when it strikes. However using a GP seems to be easier than using my Euro Paddles. I find that having the shoulders of the paddle help, too. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
As my life approaches closer to the last horizon, I find myself dipping now and then into the aspirin bottle, with pretty good and reliable results. I cannot now imagine an overnight excursion by land or sea without bringing my precious aspirin tablets. Brad Crain On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2/17/2012 10:25 AM, Jim wrote: > > > >> But 45 years of hard paddling has caught up and left > >> me in the dust. But still paddling . . . > >> > > > As I gallop towards 70 years of age I have found the biggest factor for me > is arthritis. No amount of exercise alleviates the pain... and it seems to > be almost random in when the pain strikes... but not where. And one of the > spots for me is in the hands... especially the thumb. I never noticed how > big a role the thumb joint plays in paddling 'til arthritis kicked in. > > Except for this... my paddling is mostly pain-free. Arthritis pain is > controllable to some extent with meds but nothing seems to stop it entirely > when it strikes. > > However using a GP seems to be easier than using my Euro Paddles. I find > that having the shoulders of the paddle help, too. > > Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In my advancing age, back pain and knee pain are constantly in the background. Experimenting with various forms of exercise has so far kept the pain manageable, and allows for most any outdoor activities. Unfortunately, inability to jog has led to gradual weight gain and unforeseen clothing costs. One of these days my kayak cockpit and spray skirt will no longer accomodate an expanding waist line. Patagonia and Marmot make really tough and stretchy climbing pants, which are great for darn near any scenario, including biking and wearing to work. But so far I have not found any stretchy kayaks. Brad Crain On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:53 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Thanks Jim, perfect. Already doing some of these. Will add some more now. > Can I just get a new body please? Maybe be 18 again... > > > On Wed. Doug Lloyd wrote: > > I know Chris Duff eschewed his Nordkapp eventually, partially due to > sciatica and the fact the narrow confines of the boat helped irritate > his malady, but I haven't even got into a boat in a while and am getting > worse. Any clues? I see the doc next week. Maybe a compressed disc is > the root cause as my back is bad too. > > > Me: > > > I saw a physical therapist after a weird muscle spasm messed up my leg. > She treated it as if it were sciatica (maybe it is - I don't know) and > gave me some exercises and stretches that have kept me symptom-free for > three years now, as long as I keep up with the exercises. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Bradford wrote: "Patagonia and Marmot make really tough and stretchy climbing pants, which are great for darn near any scenario, including biking and wearing to work. But so far I have not found any stretchy kayaks." I wear Marmot to work, and love my Patagonia shirts! The two-seat Kleppers, and Long Hauls (+ various other folders), could be described as stretchy, as the hole can easily be adapted to your size, or your legs - usually no mod is needed, even if you are fairly massive ;-)! After a motorbike accident years ago one of my legs isn't as foldable as the other (more normal) is, so I just can't get into a normal kayak, so Kleppers were my re-entry into paddling ;-)! <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tord S Eriksson, MA in Journalism; ex Editor-in-Chief; Avid Photographer; Pentax Fan, Articulated Bus Driver; Hon. Member of East Horsley Aerospace; Hon. Member of PAN, the World's Oldest Photo Club; On FlickR: Tord55; </font> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Doug, My wife had been suffering from gradually increasing sciatica pain. After a few trips to the doctor and some physical therapy that didn't help anything, she tried this "SLM Yoga" program: http://www.healthypages.co.uk/forum/back-problems/68319-slm-back-pain-sciatica-program-%5B-update%5D.html She found that over the course of about three months (of yoga, tennis balls down the spine and heating pad use) the pain lessened and then disappeared. Over a year later, she has pretty much stopped the treatment but she remains pain-free. Of course, no way to know if it would work in your case. There are some youtube videos so you can get an idea of what he's like. The link above is to quite a negative review, but I can assure you that it is not a scam. The DVD and a book were delivered as promised. We didn't need the 60 day money back guarantee :) Good luck! Thanks, Mark On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > I'm doing pretty good at the gym getting back in shape for long-haul > paddling while being careful with my own shoulder problems but I can't get > rid of this sciatica pain down my right buttock and leg (to the point they > have extreme pins-and-needles type sensation every day now). While I know > Brad thinks I'm a pain in the butt anyway, heh heh, I was wondering if > anyone else has found relief and what did you do to gain it. I stretch > every > night now and do light yoga. I know Chris Duff eschewed his Nordkapp > eventually, partially due to sciatica and the fact the narrow confines of > the boat helped irritate his malady, but I haven't even got into a boat in > a > while and am getting worse. Any clues? I see the doc next week. Maybe a > compressed disc in the route cause as my back is bad too. > > Doug > > I agree with Doug that an overall exercise program is desireable, rather > than focusing > on one muscle group. A personal trainer might be helpful if you can afford > it, > even if for just a few sessions. And as Doug suggested, start light and let > your body build up gradually. You're training for the long haul. > > Brad > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:57 AM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > > > I'm not sure there are specific ones for paddling and if there were it > > would > > be foolish to do them in isolation apart from a proper upper, lower and > > back/abdominal regime of weight lifting and cardio training. Certainly > off > > season fitness can prep you better for paddling season and I like a > rowing > > machine myself which gives such a good overall workout. When I used to do > > heavy weather paddling I certainly found some exercises gave me superior > > results and that included lat pull downs (nothing behind the head > though), > > pull overs and tricep pulldowns. I like free weights as much as possible; > > certainly one arm rows are a basic no brainer, and all that's needed are > a > > bench, one dumbbell you alternate from the right arm then left, and keep > > your back level with the bench. I also like the dumbbell press (and > > inclined > > too) rather than bench pressing with a bar. You can do flys too, but too > > much weight may injure extensor muscles of the forearm and hurt the inner > > elbow workings, so be careful. Dumbbell curls and front raises can't hurt > > paddling performance just don't get too greedy and start using body > > momentum > > or there's no point. Figure out your own abdominal routine, one you like > > and > > will do. Crunches on the bench, exercise ball, on a matt, whatever. Just > > don't buy one of those ab doers!!! Lower body resistance training is > > probably helpful too; anything with squats, curls and extensions. Do keep > > limbered up with a stretching regime, however. > > > > I like to build up so I can hold the bridge position for three minutes > > without any body or limb shaking. This really strengthens your core and > can > > be done anywhere at any time. Be so very careful not to do anything that > > compesses lower lumbar discs unduly. Slouching while sea touring can > cause > > cumulative degradation and one needs to be careful as one ages. > > > > For specific shoulder strengthening after surgery I'd add in pulley or > > rubber band work (and now that I'm older and can't do heavy weights > without > > injury potential, I'll be doing this regularly as I've had numerous > > shoulder > > procedures for impingement. I'd even do this before a weight regime and > > then > > go very slow indeed. Nothing heavy overhead. Anything that isolated the > > rotator cuff is especially useful to me. Don't forget ankle strength > > (important for me when I used to carry my over 100 pound Nordy over > uneven > > terrain. Stand in place on one ankle and balance for as long as you can. > > Alternate between ankles. Do it while waiting for a bus, brushing teeth, > > whenever you want. Good balance exercise too. > > > > Pre-paddler routines can be important too. Here's a primer: > > > > http://www.seakayakermag.com/Resources/Exercise.pdf > > > > Okay, I gotta go to bed, up at 5:00 am to the gym before work. Was up > late > > watching the Grammy Awards on the PVR. Way to go Adele! Rolling in The > > Deep! > > Oh yeah! My favorite deep water rolling song. Must get in shape... > > > > Doug > > > > > > A long time ago someone posted information about shoulder exercises > > specific to paddling. I've had 3 shoulder surgeries over the years, but > > was able to paddle somewhat last fall for the first time in several > > seasons. I thought that while it is winter here in Canada, it would be a > > good time to use the exercises for strengthening. Does anyone have a > > good set of paddling shoulder exercises? > > > > John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sciatica is caused by an irritation of the sciatic nerve, but the cause of the irritation can vary. In my case it was caused by a ruptured disc. Two large fragments came free, and one apparently was pushing against the sciatic nerve. My back surgeon told me to thank my mother for a large spinal canal, because the spinal cord itself was not affected. A laminectomy was the cure. The surgeon went in, removed the fragments, decided the rest of the disc looked healthy enough, and taped me back together again. I went into the hospital at 6:00 a.m. and was out by 6:00 p.m. the same day, like a pair of pants at the cleaners. The scar is two inches long. That was 15 years ago, when I was 52, and I've had no problems since then. I believe the standard conservative treatment for less serious causes is bed rest and back exercises, but your doctor is the one to decide that. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
See doc on Monday, so far he's done nada. I do appreciate everyone's advice so for and more so the practical recommendations. Guys like Craig have way more past than future but I hate to see them in pain with arthritis. I remember as a boy watching my dad put his hands in hot wax, while tears swelled his eyes with the digit pain from the malady. I try and keep my hands protected while paddling these days. This sciatic pain is harder to fathom and seems to affect every part of life, not just paddling. After Eric Soares died, I've been a bit down though doing everything I can now, health wise. I remember when I first started kayaking and the sight of standing waves made me all warm and tingly. Now just sitting in a yak does that, though a different, not so nice tingly way... Chiro has helped my upper back and my migraines are so muted now I'm ready to declare my Chiro guy a miracle worker, but not so much with the lower back. He said it was a little funny that I can't keep up with my wife on walks even though she is full of tumors and has one invading her L4. Of course, I responded that it was even odder that after 6 weeks of adjustments I'm even less able to keep up with her now. He had no reply, heh heh. Doug Sciatica is caused by an irritation of the sciatic nerve, but the cause of the irritation can vary. In my case it was caused by a ruptured disc. Two large fragments came free, and one apparently was pushing against the sciatic nerve. My back surgeon told me to thank my mother for a large spinal canal, because the spinal cord itself was not affected. A laminectomy was the cure. The surgeon went in, removed the fragments, decided the rest of the disc looked healthy enough, and taped me back together again. I went into the hospital at 6:00 a.m. and was out by 6:00 p.m. the same day, like a pair of pants at the cleaners. The scar is two inches long. That was 15 years ago, when I was 52, and I've had no problems since then. I believe the standard conservative treatment for less serious causes is bed rest and back exercises, but your doctor is the one to decide that. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, One workaround I haven't seen mentioned is this: Be sure to support your thigh just behind the knee whenever you sit, especially in a kayak or car. In your kayak, if your seat is high then a pool noodle or two (modified if need be) crammed in front of the seat might work and is cheaper than customizing minicell. I actually removed my seat altogether, sit on the bottom (on a yoga mat) and support the leg with foam. In the car I drive with a rolled up blanket across the front edge of the seat with the seat obnoxiously close to the pedals. This is present tense because I am in month 8 of my second persistent sciatica attack. Fortunately it seems to be on the mend. The first lasted >2 years :(. No doctor, chiro, bodyworker of any stripe was able to figure that one out either. One thing I just discovered that also seems to help is topical magnesium. Go get some epsom salts and put one pound in a hot bath and soak 2-3 times er week. I though this was a joke until I actually finished installing my tub and tried it. FWIW, I attribute the healing of this attack to taking up Yin yoga, specific series of long-held postures targeted toward feeding the joints and ligaments below the muscular level (google it). Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! Jennifer On Sat, Feb 18, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Doug Lloyd wrote: > See doc on Monday, so far he's done nada. > This sciatic pain is harder to fathom and seems to affect every part of > life, not just paddling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've been looking through older threads for info on shoulders, etc. I've been paying attention to these current discussions. My wife speaks very highly of myofacial release massage therapy for a lot of soft tissue ailments (in addition to trigger points). Tightness in the facial membrane around the muscle structure in one area can have a big effect on mobility/pain/etc. somewhere else. It may be another tool in the toolbox worth checking out. Bruce On 2/19/12 8:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar wrote: > Doug, > > One workaround I haven't seen mentioned is this: > Be sure to support your thigh just behind the knee whenever you sit, > especially in a kayak or car. In your kayak, if your seat is high then > a pool noodle or two (modified if need be) crammed in front of the seat > might work and is cheaper than customizing minicell. I actually removed > my seat altogether, sit on the bottom (on a yoga mat) and support the > leg with foam. In the car I drive with a rolled up blanket across the > front edge of the seat with the seat obnoxiously close to the pedals. > This is present tense because I am in month 8 of my second persistent > sciatica attack. Fortunately it seems to be on the mend. The first > lasted>2 years :(. No doctor, chiro, bodyworker of any stripe was able > to figure that one out either. > > One thing I just discovered that also seems to help is topical > magnesium. Go get some epsom salts and put one pound in a hot bath and > soak 2-3 times er week. I though this was a joke until I actually > finished installing my tub and tried it. > > FWIW, I attribute the healing of this attack to taking up Yin yoga, > specific series of long-held postures targeted toward feeding the joints > and ligaments below the muscular level (google it). > > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > > Jennifer > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Doug Lloyd wrote: >> See doc on Monday, so far he's done nada. >> This sciatic pain is harder to fathom and seems to affect every part of >> life, not just paddling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > It's inevitable, I suppose. But I agree that stopping is deadly. Slow down if you must, but don't stop. I'm taking a mountain bike out later today for a ride. Craig PS: For Doug... haven't tried the wax technique yet.... there are some new arthritis meds out there that don't have deadly side effects. And hydro codone helps a lot. cj *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
My exercises lately involve a lot of crawling and rolling around on the attic floor with a screw gun in my hand. Chuck Holst > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > It's inevitable, I suppose. But I agree that stopping is deadly. Slow down if you must, but don't stop. I'm taking a mountain bike out later today for a ride. Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, My feet are numb all the time now and back pain is constant and growing. My MD ordered a back x-ray (took him long enough, jeesh, then he calls, better get in here quick!); looks like the L4 and L5 are out of alignment and the nerves are crushing (facet arthritis is the cause). No more yoga or weightlifting for this dude. Probably will need a fusion at some point before bladder control goes. Looks like all that extreme fun over the years has caught up finally. Thank goodness for early retirement next year. Spending time in the deep end of the pool in a PFD just hanging there decompressing the spine for relief and raiding my wife's morphine supply now that she is in remission - again. And heck, I used to hang around in the ocean in my PFD whenever I bailed and couldn't get back my yak many moons ago...I'll just pretend my kayaks there on the end of a tether leash and it's another great adventure. :-) Doug On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > It's inevitable, I suppose. But I agree that stopping is deadly. Slow down if you must, but don't stop. I'm taking a mountain bike out later today for a ride. Craig PS: For Doug... haven't tried the wax technique yet.... there are some new arthritis meds out there that don't have deadly side effects. And hydro codone helps a lot. cj *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, Well, I'm glad Yvonne is doing better... that's good news. When we were on the sailboat and I had back problems I would hang from the companionway hatch but there are dang few of those on land. But unweighting the spine is a good way to help things... those anti-gravity machines where you tie your feet up and then invert are supposed to be good too. Maybe all that blood would help us old guys with brain action too. Getting old isn't so great... but I'm pretty sure it beats the alternative. The good news is that you actually know, now, what the problem is and that there is a fix for it. Your work probably doesn't help with being on your feet so much. I'm having foot problems... I think that 20 years of a left knee blown out means that my right foot has taken up too much of the strain. Or maybe it's just old age. It's worse, oddly enough, in the mornings... and I can sort of work it out over a couple of hours. I have no compunctions now with taking those three-wheeled electric carts in stores nowadays. Every now and then I try to run down a cute girl. :D My thoughts are, as always, with you often. :) Craig On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Craig, > > My feet are numb all the time now and back pain is constant and growing. My > MD ordered a back x-ray (took him long enough, jeesh, then he calls, better > get in here quick!); looks like the L4 and L5 are out of alignment and the > nerves are crushing (facet arthritis is the cause). No more yoga or > weightlifting for this dude. Probably will need a fusion at some point > before bladder control goes. Looks like all that extreme fun over the years > has caught up finally. Thank goodness for early retirement next year. > Spending time in the deep end of the pool in a PFD just hanging there > decompressing the spine for relief and raiding my wife's morphine supply > now > that she is in remission - again. And heck, I used to hang around in the > ocean in my PFD whenever I bailed and couldn't get back my yak many moons > ago...I'll just pretend my kayaks there on the end of a tether leash and > it's another great adventure. :-) > > Doug > > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar > > > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > > > > It's inevitable, I suppose. But I agree that stopping is deadly. Slow down > if you must, but don't stop. I'm taking a mountain bike out later today for > a ride. > > Craig > > PS: For Doug... haven't tried the wax technique yet.... there are some new > arthritis meds out there that don't have deadly side effects. And hydro > codone helps a lot. > > cj *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well Craig, spent the night in the ER, got a Cat scan emergently, doesn't look good. Need neurosurgery pronto. Groin has gone numb which is an emergency. Been trying to tell my doc I'm in a bad way... The ERP wanted to know what the heck I've been doing in my life to get my spine/back this bad off. Shall we tell him? :-) DL Doug, Well, I'm glad Yvonne is doing better... that's good news. When we were on the sailboat and I had back problems I would hang from the companionway hatch but there are dang few of those on land. But unweighting the spine is a good way to help things... those anti-gravity machines where you tie your feet up and then invert are supposed to be good too. Maybe all that blood would help us old guys with brain action too. Getting old isn't so great... but I'm pretty sure it beats the alternative. The good news is that you actually know, now, what the problem is and that there is a fix for it. Your work probably doesn't help with being on your feet so much. I'm having foot problems... I think that 20 years of a left knee blown out means that my right foot has taken up too much of the strain. Or maybe it's just old age. It's worse, oddly enough, in the mornings... and I can sort of work it out over a couple of hours. I have no compunctions now with taking those three-wheeled electric carts in stores nowadays. Every now and then I try to run down a cute girl. :D My thoughts are, as always, with you often. :) Craig On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Craig, > > My feet are numb all the time now and back pain is constant and growing. My > MD ordered a back x-ray (took him long enough, jeesh, then he calls, better > get in here quick!); looks like the L4 and L5 are out of alignment and the > nerves are crushing (facet arthritis is the cause). No more yoga or > weightlifting for this dude. Probably will need a fusion at some point > before bladder control goes. Looks like all that extreme fun over the years > has caught up finally. Thank goodness for early retirement next year. > Spending time in the deep end of the pool in a PFD just hanging there > decompressing the spine for relief and raiding my wife's morphine supply > now > that she is in remission - again. And heck, I used to hang around in the > ocean in my PFD whenever I bailed and couldn't get back my yak many moons > ago...I'll just pretend my kayaks there on the end of a tether leash and > it's another great adventure. :-) > > Doug > > > On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar > > > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > > > > It's inevitable, I suppose. But I agree that stopping is deadly. Slow down > if you must, but don't stop. I'm taking a mountain bike out later today for > a ride. > > Craig > > PS: For Doug... haven't tried the wax technique yet.... there are some new > arthritis meds out there that don't have deadly side effects. And hydro > codone helps a lot. > > cj *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, I've been having my own back pain that I've had troubles shaking off the last couple of months and have been wondering myself how hard kayaking is on my back. I may have to resort to prone paddle boarding and build one with VCP hatches! Duane >________________________________ > >From: Doug Lloyd douglloyd_at_shaw.ca > > >The ERP wanted to know what the heck I've been doing in my life to get my >spine/back this bad off. Shall we tell him? :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane, I know that when I did a lot of touring I'd have some pretty bad back pain at times, especially at the beginning of a longer trip or the first few trips of the "season" if I'd been off for the winter (used to have rotator cuff issues and there were years I'd back off winter paddling). Good abdominal strength through fitness cross training helped but I guess at some point there may be a negative cumulative toll with one's back. I rather think that slouching while long distance paddling must really compress the spine in bad ways and I'm sure I've been culpable of that in the past as I never used a back band. Probably proper fit and ergonomic outfitting of a sea kayak is more important than we think, as well as proper technique. The last few years of paddling I was using my arms more for propulsion than good torso rotation, but I was having bad back spasms, etc, and as I have strong arms got away with it. I wish I'd taken up yoga at least a decade ago or more. Anyway, degenerative changes and bad genetics sometimes mean one is so predisposed to problems that one just has to decide that they are willing to pay the price to enjoy activities maximally when they were able. My favorite quote lately goes something like this: "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy ****, what a ride!" Of course, my groin is numb and cold right now and I'm doped up on morphine as I await seeing a neurosurgeon and hopefully have a long way to go before the grave and some good kayaking years left, but in the mean time, just call me numb nuts! Whatever happens, you have been one of the reasons sea kayaking has been a blast in this era where kayaking has grown exponentially and is now fading a bit; with your awesome attitude, down-home dude desire to share information and foster friendships through cyber space, I'm glad you have been part of that fantastic experience Duane. Doug >Doug, I've been having my own back pain that I've had troubles shaking off the last couple of months and have been wondering myself how hard kayaking is on my back. I may have to resort to prone paddle boarding and build one with VCP hatches! Duane< >________________________________ > >From: Doug Lloyd douglloyd_at_shaw.ca > > >The ERP wanted to know what the heck I've been doing in my life to get my >spine/back this bad off. Shall we tell him? :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When I first started kayaking, I had pain problems with my arms, legs, and back. I'm confident that I would not have been able to continue without placing water bottles under the knees, and installing a pad on the seat back. I also try to get in a couple of practice paddles before going on an extended kayak trip, to reduce the shock to my body. I'll never forget our first trip to the Broken Group, where we changed campsite locations every day for a week or more. My arms went so numb, I didn't think I'd be able to finish the trip. Now I realize that you don't have to be the strongest paddler in a group, you just don't want to be the slowest or weakest. Of course, in inclement conditions, you definitely want to be a strong paddler. Brad Crain On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Duane, > > I know that when I did a lot of touring I'd have some pretty bad back pain > at times, especially at the beginning of a longer trip or the first few > trips of the "season" if I'd been off for the winter (used to have rotator > cuff issues and there were years I'd back off winter paddling). Good > abdominal strength through fitness cross training helped but I guess at > some point there may be a negative cumulative toll with one's back. I > rather > think that slouching while long distance paddling must really compress the > spine in bad ways and I'm sure I've been culpable of that in the past as I > never used a back band. Probably proper fit and ergonomic outfitting of a > sea kayak is more important than we think, as well as proper technique. The > last few years of paddling I was using my arms more for propulsion than > good > torso rotation, but I was having bad back spasms, etc, and as I have strong > arms got away with it. I wish I'd taken up yoga at least a decade ago or > more. Anyway, degenerative changes and bad genetics sometimes mean one is > so > predisposed to problems that one just has to decide that they are willing > to > pay the price to enjoy activities maximally when they were able. My > favorite > quote lately goes something like this: > > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved > body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy > ****, what a ride!" > > Of course, my groin is numb and cold right now and I'm doped up on morphine > as I await seeing a neurosurgeon and hopefully have a long way to go before > the grave and some good kayaking years left, but in the mean time, just > call > me numb nuts! > > Whatever happens, you have been one of the reasons sea kayaking has been a > blast in this era where kayaking has grown exponentially and is now fading > a > bit; with your awesome attitude, down-home dude desire to share information > and foster friendships through cyber space, I'm glad you have been part of > that fantastic experience Duane. > > Doug > > > > > >Doug, > > I've been having my own back pain that I've had troubles shaking off > the last couple of months and have been wondering myself how hard kayaking > is > on my back. I may have to resort to prone paddle boarding and build one > with > VCP hatches! > > Duane< > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: Doug Lloyd > douglloyd_at_shaw.ca > > > > > >The ERP wanted to know what the heck I've been doing > in my life to get my > >spine/back this bad off. Shall we tell him? :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
For years I had zero pain from paddling. No leg-numbness either. I thought that the Telkwa's seat - which is pretty comfortable - had something to do with it until I switched to a Mariner Express with the sliding seat and found that to be just as good (oddly enough). In the SOF I just have a blue foam pad cut to shape and I even like that! My feet have gone to sleep in a white water kayak though (but not the RPM Max). I attributed that to the way you have to sit in some of them. Hands have been another matter for me. Paddling can be extremely painful. I haven't had any long trips with the GP so I'm hoping that has solved some of it. I'm also grateful for no rotator cuff issues. But I do spend more time on the sofa so maybe that will cure everything. :D Craig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Craig, On my non-stop, nearly 36 hour "Hundred Miler" just 9 years ago, I didn't have any butt or back pain at all. I was just plain tired. I don't know how I did it. Maybe the whole torso rotation thing has screwed me up and I need to go back to arm paddling. Duane >________________________________ > From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> > >For years I had zero pain from paddling. No leg-numbness either. I thought that the Telkwa's seat - which is pretty comfortable - had something to do with it until I switched to a Mariner Express with the sliding seat and found that to be just as good (oddly enough). In the SOF I just have a blue foam pad cut to shape and I even like that! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Works for me! Sometimes I think I'm rotating, but it's probably just a figment of my imagination. Mark On 3/11/2012 7:08 PM, Duane Strosaker wrote: > Maybe the whole torso rotation thing has screwed me up and I > need to go back to arm paddling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Duane, Torso rotation can be a problem if it occurs in the lumbar spine (which only has 5 degrees of rotation) rather than the entire pelvis rotating, allowing the hips to alternately slide forward. I'm suffering from trying to apply power in rotation and not getting enough hip/pelvis rotation. There may also be a problem with having a posterior pelvic tilt (common in kayakers http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/weight-training-the-romanian-deadlift-41777) vs the noticeable anterior tilt of competitive surfski/K1 paddlers http://www.sportscene.tv/flatwater/canoe-sprint/news/greg-barton-nominated-fo r-the-u.s.-olympic-hall-of-fame . Debra On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>wrote: > Craig, > > On my non-stop, nearly 36 hour "Hundred Miler" just 9 years ago, I > didn't have any butt or back pain at all. I was just plain tired. I don't > know > how I did it. Maybe the whole torso rotation thing has screwed me up and I > need to go back to arm paddling. > > Duane > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> > > > >For years I had zero pain from > paddling. No leg-numbness either. I thought that the Telkwa's seat - which > is > pretty comfortable - had something to do with it until I switched to a > Mariner > Express with the sliding seat and found that to be just as good (oddly > enough). In the SOF I just have a blue foam pad cut to shape and I even > like > that! > -- *\* Debra dbk92675_at_gmail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Debra, Thanks for that info. Gosh, 5 degrees rotation in the lumbar spine isn't much. It seems that rotating it could be as injurous as cocking the wrists. Arm paddling may be my answer. Rotating the hips works for short distances, but after an hour the butt grinds uncomfortably in the seat. . By the way, I armed paddled those hundred miles. Duane >________________________________ > From: Debra Kettler dbk92675_at_gmail.com > > >Torso rotation can be a problem if it occurs in the lumbar spine (which only has 5 degrees of rotation) rather than the entire pelvis rotating, allowing the hips to alternately slide forward. I'm suffering from trying to apply power in rotation and not getting enough hip/pelvis rotation. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In ER all night again tonight, feet had gone cold, etc. Got to see a copy of last Fridays CT scan. I have five disc bulges from L2 through L5 with canal stenosis in every spine segment with severe stenosis in L4-L5. I was told to go home and suck it up basically and if I lose bladder control maybe I'd get surgery consideration more emergently. Gotta love the BC health care system. So will back off paddling until I get some resolve to at least the severe stenosis and associated pain and not bug you guys on Paddlewise anymore. Though, if anyone has been through this kind of stuff please back channel me. Thanks. Doug When I first started kayaking, I had pain problems with my arms, legs, and back. I'm confident that I would not have been able to continue without placing water bottles under the knees, and installing a pad on the seat back. I also try to get in a couple of practice paddles before going on an extended kayak trip, to reduce the shock to my body. I'll never forget our first trip to the Broken Group, where we changed campsite locations every day for a week or more. My arms went so numb, I didn't think I'd be able to finish the trip. Now I realize that you don't have to be the strongest paddler in a group, you just don't want to be the slowest or weakest. Of course, in inclement conditions, you definitely want to be a strong paddler. Brad Crain On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 6:53 PM, Doug Lloyd <douglloyd_at_shaw.ca> wrote: > Duane, > > I know that when I did a lot of touring I'd have some pretty bad back > pain at times, especially at the beginning of a longer trip or the > first few trips of the "season" if I'd been off for the winter (used > to have rotator cuff issues and there were years I'd back off winter > paddling). Good abdominal strength through fitness cross training > helped but I guess at some point there may be a negative cumulative > toll with one's back. I rather think that slouching while long > distance paddling must really compress the spine in bad ways and I'm > sure I've been culpable of that in the past as I never used a back > band. Probably proper fit and ergonomic outfitting of a sea kayak is > more important than we think, as well as proper technique. The last > few years of paddling I was using my arms more for propulsion than > good torso rotation, but I was having bad back spasms, etc, and as I > have strong arms got away with it. I wish I'd taken up yoga at least a > decade ago or more. Anyway, degenerative changes and bad genetics > sometimes mean one is so predisposed to problems that one just has to > decide that they are willing to pay the price to enjoy activities > maximally when they were able. My favorite quote lately goes something > like this: > > "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well > preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, > shouting "Holy ****, what a ride!" > > Of course, my groin is numb and cold right now and I'm doped up on > morphine as I await seeing a neurosurgeon and hopefully have a long > way to go before the grave and some good kayaking years left, but in > the mean time, just call me numb nuts! > > Whatever happens, you have been one of the reasons sea kayaking has > been a blast in this era where kayaking has grown exponentially and is > now fading a bit; with your awesome attitude, down-home dude desire to > share information and foster friendships through cyber space, I'm glad > you have been part of that fantastic experience Duane. > > Doug > > > > > >Doug, > > I've been having my own back pain that I've had troubles shaking off > the last couple of months and have been wondering myself how hard > kayaking is on my back. I may have to resort to prone paddle boarding > and build one with VCP hatches! > > Duane< > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: Doug Lloyd > douglloyd_at_shaw.ca > > > > > >The ERP wanted to know what the heck I've been doing > in my life to get my > >spine/back this bad off. Shall we tell him? :-) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I credit my slouching posture and La-Z-Boy giant back band for my LACK of back pain! You don't hear about people sitting in their recliners watching Wheel of Fortune 6 hours a day complaining about their backs too much. Of course, Pat Sajak IS the opiate of the masses. Mark On 3/10/2012 6:53 PM, Doug Lloyd wrote: > I rather > think that slouching while long distance paddling must really compress the > spine in bad ways and I'm sure I've been culpable of that in the past as I > never used a back band. Probably proper fit and ergonomic outfitting of a > sea kayak is more important than we think, *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One device I found helpful is to place water bottles under my knees when paddling. The relief to knee pain has been amazing, and the slightly bent knee posture seems to help my back also. Brad On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar <jpivovar_at_headwinds.org>wrote: > Doug, > > One workaround I haven't seen mentioned is this: > Be sure to support your thigh just behind the knee whenever you sit, > especially in a kayak or car. In your kayak, if your seat is high then > a pool noodle or two (modified if need be) crammed in front of the seat > might work and is cheaper than customizing minicell. I actually removed > my seat altogether, sit on the bottom (on a yoga mat) and support the > leg with foam. In the car I drive with a rolled up blanket across the > front edge of the seat with the seat obnoxiously close to the pedals. > This is present tense because I am in month 8 of my second persistent > sciatica attack. Fortunately it seems to be on the mend. The first > lasted >2 years :(. No doctor, chiro, bodyworker of any stripe was able > to figure that one out either. > > One thing I just discovered that also seems to help is topical > magnesium. Go get some epsom salts and put one pound in a hot bath and > soak 2-3 times er week. I though this was a joke until I actually > finished installing my tub and tried it. > > FWIW, I attribute the healing of this attack to taking up Yin yoga, > specific series of long-held postures targeted toward feeding the joints > and ligaments below the muscular level (google it). > > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > > Jennifer > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Doug Lloyd wrote: > > See doc on Monday, so far he's done nada. > > This sciatic pain is harder to fathom and seems to affect every part of > > life, not just paddling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I am going to give that a try Brad. In the mean time I've been referred to a physiatrist (MD). DL One device I found helpful is to place water bottles under my knees when paddling. The relief to knee pain has been amazing, and the slightly bent knee posture seems to help my back also. Brad On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Jennifer Pivovar <jpivovar_at_headwinds.org>wrote: > Doug, > > One workaround I haven't seen mentioned is this: > Be sure to support your thigh just behind the knee whenever you sit, > especially in a kayak or car. In your kayak, if your seat is high then > a pool noodle or two (modified if need be) crammed in front of the seat > might work and is cheaper than customizing minicell. I actually removed > my seat altogether, sit on the bottom (on a yoga mat) and support the > leg with foam. In the car I drive with a rolled up blanket across the > front edge of the seat with the seat obnoxiously close to the pedals. > This is present tense because I am in month 8 of my second persistent > sciatica attack. Fortunately it seems to be on the mend. The first > lasted >2 years :(. No doctor, chiro, bodyworker of any stripe was able > to figure that one out either. > > One thing I just discovered that also seems to help is topical > magnesium. Go get some epsom salts and put one pound in a hot bath and > soak 2-3 times er week. I though this was a joke until I actually > finished installing my tub and tried it. > > FWIW, I attribute the healing of this attack to taking up Yin yoga, > specific series of long-held postures targeted toward feeding the joints > and ligaments below the muscular level (google it). > > Aren't we a creaky bunch? Just don't stop!! > > Jennifer > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Doug Lloyd wrote: > > See doc on Monday, so far he's done nada. > > This sciatic pain is harder to fathom and seems to affect every part of > > life, not just paddling. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have always put my slightly inflated paddle float under my knees. On Feb 19, 2012, at 7:12 AM, Bradford Crain wrote: > One device I found helpful is to place water bottles under my knees when > paddling. > The relief to knee pain has been amazing, and the slightly bent knee > posture seems > to help my back also. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Try spelling this fascial or myofascial if you are looking it up. Root is fascia. Wikipedia has good definitions. Pam in WA state In a message dated 2/19/2012 4:14:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bst romberg3_at_comcast.net writes: I've been looking through older threads for info on shoulders, etc. I've been paying attention to these current discussions. My wife speaks very highly of myofacial release massage therapy for a lot of soft tissue ailments (in addition to trigger points). Tightness in the facial membrane around the muscle structure in one area can have a big effect on mobility/pain/etc. somewhere else. It may be another tool in the toolbox worth checking out. Bruce *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One of the instructors in my area suggested that the minicell foam seats may hold you too securely in place. They suggested adding a slicker (more slippery) cover or seating area may help in torso rotation, side rudder, rolling, in fact any activity where you need a lot of hip movement. So, it may not be just you, it may be restriction caused by the seat, forcing more strain in the lumbar area. I keep meaning to take some waxed paper out to sit on and still haven't tried it. I think a couple of layers may last long enough to give some answers. Or, heavy gardening plastic and wrap the seat with it may work. Pam in Washington State In a message dated 3/11/2012 7:57:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, strosaker_at_yahoo.com writes: Debra, Thanks for that info. Gosh, 5 degrees rotation in the lumbar spine isn't much. It seems that rotating it could be as injurous as cocking the wrists. Arm paddling may be my answer. Rotating the hips works for short distances, but after an hour the butt grinds uncomfortably in the seat. . By the way, I armed paddled those hundred miles. Duane >________________________________ > From: Debra Kettler dbk92675_at_gmail.com > > >Torso rotation can be a problem if it occurs in the lumbar spine (which only has 5 degrees of rotation) rather than the entire pelvis rotating, allowing the hips to alternately slide forward. I'm suffering from trying to apply power in rotation and not getting enough hip/pelvis rotation. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'll have to check the websites... FWIW a friend locally is a former Olympics FW kayaker and she mentioned once that being able to rotate the pelvis while paddling was crucial (albeit for maintaining balance). The solution for many was to sit on a plastic shopping bag. The comparative sliding motion was the main component and they had even constructed lists of whose shopping bag was best for various conditions. Around here the ShopRite bag was best... Joe P. PS -- The only times I ever had back pain from paddling was in s SOT without any backband or other support. I normally paddle a solo open canoe in a kneeling position with no back support and haven't had any problems... JP -----Original Message----- >From: Debra Kettler > >Torso rotation can be a problem if it occurs in the lumbar spine (which >only has 5 degrees of rotation) rather than the entire pelvis rotating, >allowing the hips to alternately slide forward. I'm suffering from trying >to apply power in rotation and not getting enough hip/pelvis rotation. > >There may also be a problem with having a posterior pelvic tilt (common in >kayakers >http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/weight-training-the-romanian-deadlift-41777) >vs the noticeable anterior tilt of competitive surfski/K1 paddlers >http://www.sportscene.tv/flatwater/canoe-sprint/news/greg-barton-nominated-fo >r-the-u.s.-olympic-hall-of-fame >. > > > > > >Debra > >On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Duane Strosaker <strosaker_at_yahoo.com>wrote: > >> Craig, >> >> On my non-stop, nearly 36 hour "Hundred Miler" just 9 years ago, I >> didn't have any butt or back pain at all. I was just plain tired. I don't >> know >> how I did it. Maybe the whole torso rotation thing has screwed me up and I >> need to go back to arm paddling. >> >> Duane >> >> >> >________________________________ >> > >> From: Craig Jungers <crjungers_at_gmail.com> >> > >> >For years I had zero pain from >> paddling. No leg-numbness either. I thought that the Telkwa's seat - which >> is >> pretty comfortable - had something to do with it until I switched to a >> Mariner >> Express with the sliding seat and found that to be just as good (oddly >> enough). In the SOF I just have a blue foam pad cut to shape and I even >> like >> that! >> > > > >-- >*\* >Debra >dbk92675_at_gmail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Cauda Equina Syndrome is a medical emergency or at the very least groin numbness in the perineum does require emergent follow up evaluation. There are symptoms that folks with lumbar injuries or degenerative conditions in the lower spine should be aware of and should be part of the knowledge base of older paddlers where lower back problems sometimes persist. Cheers, Doug >Doug, Why do you have to see a neurosurgeon if you have numb nuts? I know that men are often accused of using them to think, but.......... Cheers JKA< >>Duane, I know that when I did a lot of touring I'd have some pretty bad back pain at times, especially at the beginning of a longer trip or the first few trips of the "season" if I'd been off for the winter (used to have rotator cuff issues and there were years I'd back off winter paddling). Good abdominal strength through fitness cross training helped but I guess at some point there may be a negative cumulative toll with one's back. I rather think that slouching while long distance paddling must really compress the spine in bad ways and I'm sure I've been culpable of that in the past as I never used a back band. Probably proper fit and ergonomic outfitting of a sea kayak is more important than we think, as well as proper technique. The last few years of paddling I was using my arms more for propulsion than good torso rotation, but I was having bad back spasms, etc, and as I have strong arms got away with it. I wish I'd taken up yoga at least a decade ago or more. Anyway, degenerative changes and bad genetics sometimes mean one is so predisposed to problems that one just has to decide that they are willing to pay the price to enjoy activities maximally when they were able. My favorite quote lately goes something like this: "Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to slide in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "Holy ****, what a ride!" Of course, my groin is numb and cold right now and I'm doped up on morphine as I await seeing a neurosurgeon and hopefully have a long way to go before the grave and some good kayaking years left, but in the mean time, just call me numb nuts! Whatever happens, you have been one of the reasons sea kayaking has been a blast in this era where kayaking has grown exponentially and is now fading a bit; with your awesome attitude, down-home dude desire to share information and foster friendships through cyber space, I'm glad you have been part of that fantastic experience Duane. Doug<< >Doug, I've been having my own back pain that I've had troubles shaking off the last couple of months and have been wondering myself how hard kayaking is on my back. I may have to resort to prone paddle boarding and build one with VCP hatches! Duane< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I was, for the first time ever struck by "gradually increasing sciatica pain", to quote Mark Perkins, just before Xmas, but having decreased my working hours, decreasing working hours, and exercise - like those described here - seems to have helped a lot, if not fully! <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tord S Eriksson, MA in Journalism; ex Editor-in-Chief; Avid Photographer; Pentax Fan, Articulated Bus Driver; Hon. Member of East Horsley Aerospace; Hon. Member of PAN, the World's Oldest Photo Club; On FlickR: Tord55; </font> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:56 PDT