Really Dumb Question: How do you get out of a kayak?? I have a Nechi Telqwa Kayak - When I get in, I straddle the boat, sit on the back of the boat, dangle my feet in the water (To get rid of the sand and mud), Then slide my feet into the cockpit while lowering myself into the seat. Attach the skirt and off I go. This kayak is extremely stable on the water... When I get to the shore, I cannot figure how to land the damn thing without dumping it, generally near the shore in 6" of water. What I try to do is: Pop the skirt, feet out and overboard, when I get to shore, Lift myself out of the boat (Triceps Exercise) or sit on the back of the boat - Invariably, the boat on land is more unstable than in the water. When the boat touches land, I get top heavy and over I go. OK - WHat is the way you all get out of your kayaks ?? Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:33 AM 1/9/01 -0800, Wayne Smith wrote: >Really Dumb Question: > >How do you get out of a kayak?? > >I have a Nechi Telqwa Kayak - When I get in, I straddle the boat, sit on the >back of the boat, dangle my feet in the water (To get rid of the sand and >mud), Then slide my feet into the cockpit while lowering myself into the >seat. Attach the skirt and off I go. This kayak is extremely stable on the >water... > >When I get to the shore, I cannot figure how to land the damn thing without >dumping it, generally near the shore in 6" of water. Although this technique is allegedly against the rules for BCU certification, using the paddle to assist in entry/exit makes it real easy. When you get to shore turn you boat parallel to shore, then pop your spray skirt. Put your paddle behind you so that the shaft is up against the rear cockpit combing and perpendicular to the shoreline. Turn the blade towards shore so that the power face is up. It doesn't actually need to be on dry land but it's easiest if it's only slightly above or below the waterline. Take the hand which is furthest away from shore and grab the paddle shaft and cockpit rim simulataneously such that your fingers are in the cockpit and your thumb is wrapped around the paddle shaft. Place your other hand on the paddle shaft midway between the boat and the paddle blade which is resting on the shore (fingers forward) and lean slightly toward shore. Lift your butt up so that you're sitting just behind the cockpit, swing your feet onto shore and lean forward to stand up. With practice you can do this very quickly. Entering the kayak using the same technique in reverse. Put the boat in the water parallel to shore. Lay the paddle shaft just behind the cockpit perpendicular to shore, with the shoreside paddle blade powerface up. Stand in front of the paddle facing the bow. Squat down so that your shoreside hand grasps the paddle shaft midway between the boat and the shoreside paddle blade. Grab the paddle shaft and cockpit combing at the same time with your fingers forward and lean slightly towards shore and squat down until you're sitting just behind the cockpit (you can also sit partially on the paddle shaft). From this position you can wash your paddle shoes off before swinging them into the cockpit and then sliding forward until you're seated. Attach your spray skirt and off you go. This technique can be performed such that you don't get your feet wet entering or exiting if the boat is close enough to shore. The other advantage is that one can insert their feet into the cockpit first (and remove them last when exiting) and then sit down. If you've got a small cockpit like I do, it's impossible to sit in the seat before putting your fit in and knees under the deck. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Not a dumb question at all. However, I would not recommend the method described by John is there is any surf at all. You could find yourself with more than just wet feet. Land perpendicular to the beach. Swing paddle around to rear of cockpit so it functions like an outrigger. Right hand on paddle behind you resting on the deck. Left hand, again behind you, gripping the paddle and leaning your weight to the outside of the kayak. This stabilizes the boat in little surf and if the kayak bow is resting on a bit of beach as the rest of it floats. Pull the spray skirt with the right hand still leaning on the left hand and paddle. Then hop out still keeping some weight on the paddle till your feet take over. Right hand can grab the kayak while the left hold the paddle and you pull or like the kayak to the beach. Sorry, your feet will get wet. But that's better than falling over or getting hit in the calves by a kayaks surging in surf. Barbara in California *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Barbara - Thanks Many different things to try next time - Must take time out of my schedule just for landings - Calm water - Smallish Waves - Until I get this down pat - It is most embarrassing... Wayne ------------------ Wayne Smith http://www.waynesmith.net/weight 07 October 1999 - 315 lb. - Dr Rumbaut - Monterrey, Mexico --------------------------------------------------- Tag Line for Today: Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. --------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:57 AM 1/9/01 -0800, Barbara Kossy wrote: >Not a dumb question at all. However, I would not recommend the method >described by John is there is any surf at all. You could find yourself with >more than just wet feet. >From what I've read from Wayne I don't think he paddles in the surf much. One might suggest that the technique that you're describing has it's disadvanages as well. > >Land perpendicular to the beach. Swing paddle around to rear of cockpit so >it functions like an outrigger. Right hand on paddle behind you resting on >the deck. Left hand, again behind you, gripping the paddle and leaning your >weight to the outside of the kayak. This stabilizes the boat in little surf >and if the kayak bow is resting on a bit of beach as the rest of it floats. How good is your brace? How good is your brace with the paddle behind your back. If you're landing on a shallow beach you could probably get a "bottom brace" with the boat perpendicular. However if you're coming to a shore with a steep drop off the first step is going to be a wet one. If there is a shallow drop off, and you manage to keep a brace long enough to get your feet out of the boat (try doing that with an ocean cockpit) so that you can step out your suggested techinque would work well. If, however, the water is still a couple of feet deep at the cockpit all you've got to brace off of is the water surface. If it fails, you're going over. How good is your roll? How good is your roll with your paddle behind your back? >Pull the spray skirt with the right hand still leaning on the left hand and >paddle. I'll admit that pulling the spray skirt after getting into a stable position makes more sense. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wayne, One thing that may help you with making getting out of the boat easier is to use your paddle, basically as an outrigger. What I normally do is bring my kayak parallel to the shore and move my paddle so it is behind me, directly behind the combing of the cockpit. With the hand opposite from shore I hold the paddle against the combing, while with the hand closes to shore I gently lean on the paddle, making sure the blade is securely placed on the shore. Basically what's happening is I'm using the paddle to stabilize myself against the shore. This will greatly increase the stability of the kayak, allowing you to slide back and out of the cockpit. I have done this with all kinds of different paddles, including all carbon-fiber, and have had no problems with breakage. Certainly the more weight you place on the paddle, the more opportunity there is for breakage, so be sure to not sit on the paddle between your boat and the blade which is on the shore. Hopefully you'll find this helps your exiting of the boat. Good luck and happy paddling! Mark Mastalski At 07:33 AM 1/9/01 , Wayne Smith wrote: >Really Dumb Question: > >How do you get out of a kayak?? > >I have a Nechi Telqwa Kayak - When I get in, I straddle the boat, sit on the >back of the boat, dangle my feet in the water (To get rid of the sand and >mud), Then slide my feet into the cockpit while lowering myself into the >seat. Attach the skirt and off I go. This kayak is extremely stable on the >water... > >When I get to the shore, I cannot figure how to land the damn thing without >dumping it, generally near the shore in 6" of water. > >What I try to do is: Pop the skirt, feet out and overboard, when I get to >shore, Lift myself out of the boat (Triceps Exercise) or sit on the back of >the boat - Invariably, the boat on land is more unstable than in the water. >When the boat touches land, I get top heavy and over I go. > >OK - WHat is the way you all get out of your kayaks ?? > >Wayne > ___________________________________ Mark Mastalski, Assistant Director Cooperative Education & Internship Program University of Wisconsin - Madison 1415 Engineering Drive, Room 1150 Madison, WI 53706-1619 (608) 262-7504 www.engr.wisc.edu/services/ecs *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wayne Smith wrote: > How do you get out of a kayak?? > What I try to do is: Pop the skirt, feet out and overboard, when I get to > shore, Lift myself out of the boat (Triceps Exercise) or sit on the back of > the boat - Invariably, the boat on land is more unstable than in the water. > When the boat touches land, I get top heavy and over I go. If the kayak is bridging between land and the water surface, with most of the load supported at the ends of the kayak, it is inherently unstable. The yak gets into this position if you hit the beach with some speed, which jams the nose up onto shore. Couple choices: 1. Try to just gently touch the land, and then get out. Your feet will get wet, but this is a more stable position. 2. Sidle up to the beach sideways, and then get out your normal way. This only works on sloping beaches, and is a poor choice if there is much chop or any shorebreak. 3. As in 2. above, but use the paddle across the back deck to support yourself as you lever yourself up, per the detailed instructions John Fereira posted. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/9/01 12:19:34 PM, wsmith_at_cts.com writes: << Many different things to try next time - Must take time out of my schedule just for landings - Calm water - Smallish Waves - Until I get this down pat - It is most embarrassing.. >> For some of us the most embarrassing thing is getting out of the boat. It can be an issue and I have seen more creative ways to embarrass ones self than you can imagine. It is always when there are small children around to point out the flaw to their family and friends. One day I was using this behind the coaming trick and caught the tail of my skirt with the paddle loom. I had gotten myself just at that point where I could neither move back to the seat nor up on the deck quickly enough. I flipped over slightly and sat firmly in the mud and water. I looked up to see this woman with her mouth literally hanging wide open. She abruptly turned around and quickly left the beach. I suspect she was mind reading because I had said nothing out loud other than umph when I hit the water. Good luck. Just don't trap the tail of your skirt if you have one. I also tend not to get the back of the skirt off well enough before trying to get out. The paddle traps the skirt and there is no way short of sitting back in the boat to reposition you paddle. Joan Spinner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The chances of having an embarassing exit is directly proportional to the number of people standing on the beach watching you land David *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The chances of having an embarassing exit is directly proportional to > the number of people standing on the beach watching you land > > David > As you approach the beach, do a few nice, snappy rolls (and a handroll if you can manage one that looks smooth and effortless). Then, if you fall in the water as you land, the watchers on the beach will think you just did it to amuse them. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/9/01 1:59:32 PM, wsmith_at_cts.com writes: << How do you get out of a kayak?? >> Hi Wayne, Lot's of good advise floating around. My own technique, which I don't recommend for fear that we will all be inundated with critical email, follows. 1) Stop the kayak. 2) Lean onto the back deck. 3) Pull both legs out of the yak and place on either side as far as I can reach. 4) Rock forward over my feet. 5) Stand up Please don't try this at home, it's guaranteed not to work there. And make sure no one is watching or it won't work either. Lastly, this technique is further guaranteed not to work for boats with ocean cockpits, people with only one leg or in deep water. I hope this at least clarifies what you should not do. Sorry I couldn't help. Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> // boats with ocean cockpits, // What is an "Ocean Cockpit" - How is it different than the on I have?? Wayne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
An "ocean" cockpit is a smaller, more rounded cockpit, most commonly found on british boats like the Nordkapp and the Pintail. Necky uses a "keyhole" cockpit, which is longer fore to aft, and is easier to get in and out of. Makes most people feel a little less confined when they're starting out, too. The other Wayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Wayne Smith wsmith16_at_snet.net Check out my sea kayaking & homebrewing page: http://pages.cthome.net/wsmith16/home.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/9/01 7:01:53 PM, wsmith_at_cts.com writes: > > << What is an "Ocean Cockpit" - How is it different than the on I have?? >> > > What kind of boat do you paddle? I have a Nimbus Telkwa: http://www.nimbuskayaks.com/telkwa.html Wayne Smith *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:36 AM 1/10/01 -0800, Wayne Smith wrote: >JSpinner_at_aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 1/9/01 7:01:53 PM, wsmith_at_cts.com writes: >> >> << What is an "Ocean Cockpit" - How is it different than the on I have?? >> >> >> What kind of boat do you paddle? > >I have a Nimbus Telkwa: I have one, too -- that makes two of us on here. The Telkwa cockpit is HUGE in comparison to the "ocean" cockpits on the smaller Britboats. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I wonder if anyone agrees that the so called "Ocean" sized cockpit is safer and more seaworthy than anything larger? I have test paddled a few boats recently. Many plastic boats seem to have overly large cockpits. The Dagger and Perception boats I have seen around here have huge cockpit openings, as do Arctic Raiders, Southern Raiders and all those supposed Australian descendants of the Nordkapp. My experience with large cockpits is that it is very easy to fall out of them when trying to roll, by having a knee slip sideways. Knee hooks are not always adequate as supplied. A cockpit that stops at mid thigh when the paddler is seated, on the other hand, cannot have this problem. You will always brace your knee under the deck, and never run the risk of popping the skirt by an inadvertent knee slip. Does anyone who has paddled in rough water, as we all must at times, prefer an oversized cockpit? Good Paddling, Peter Treby 37ş 42' S 145ş 08' E *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
on 1/10/01 5:16 PM, Peter Treby at ptreby_at_ozemail.com.au wrote: Snip > My experience with large cockpits is that it is very easy to fall out of > them when trying to roll, by having a knee slip sideways. Knee hooks are not > always adequate as supplied. > A cockpit that stops at mid thigh when the paddler is seated, on the other > hand, cannot have this problem. You will always brace your knee under the > deck, and never run the risk of popping the skirt by an inadvertent knee > slip. > Does anyone who has paddled in rough water, as we all must at times, prefer > an oversized cockpit? I agree that the smaller, traditional Greenland style cockpit is easier to stay in but with a good foam outfitting job you can make the typical "oversized" cockpit very secure. Look at the photo's on Ken Rasmussen's web site at www.kayakfit.com. How you make your hip pads is just as important as how you make the knee braces and thigh hooks. Notice how the hip pads are a lot wider at the top, at the cockpit rim, compared to down by the seat. These pads "hook" over the hips but don't trap you in the kayak because you can tilt your hips (releasing one hip then the other) and you will come right out. The photo's of Ken's Eddyline Falcon show real clearly what I'm talking about. The skinboat is a Baidarka I built three years ago. Each of the knee/thigh braces is carved from a block of foam 3 x 7 x 12 inches. A channel is carved out of the underside (2 3/4 inched deep at the knee cap area) so the brace hooks over the knee and thigh on the inside and outside of the knee and leg. Rex Roberton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The reason I mentioned the velcro'ed seat method of securing a foam seat was simply due to the fact that the word seaworthiness to me, means being ready for what may come. I wasn't suggesting that while sitting in place, velcro might be inadequate -- quite the contrary. I ran an aftermarket seat in my Nordkapp, successfully, for a while -- no problem. However, it was an inflatable seat with cover, which obviously did not take to seat-to-hull velcro'ing very well with the one inch (25mm) velcro -- as I found out in my Trial Island incident (seat dislodged in rough seas during self-rescue maneuvers, where it lodged up against the bulkhead mounted foot pump, thereby negating foot pump operation). I replaced it with an aftermarket foam seat, and glued it in place with marine-strength contact cement. I was going to velcro the second seat in too, using two inch (50mm) velcro just after I picked up the seat, but didn't want to ever experience the problem of dislodging again -- did not want even the slightest preponderance of it. While it is physically difficult to kiss one's a*s good bye, it is very easy to kiss your seat good bye - both literally and figuratively I guess, if you are not sure it will stay in place. Anyway, thank goodness I was well practiced at the Peter Carter school of flooded boat paddling technique for that incident above. Part of the consideration for gluing my new foam seat in place, was the fact that sand and seaweed bits could have effected the bond strength. Secondly, while I _had_ found a good quality velcro the first time around, the self-adhesive backing just didn't seem like it was willing to go the long haul and hold in riotous conditions during inept recovery procedures in seemingly hyperborean seas where coordination often takes a frigid, northerly dive. I was also concerned over the fact that the ubiquitous replacement foam seat I was about to use, did not naturally fit the concave surface of my inner hull, nor did the hip pads that fold upwards offer any wedge potential for further security. I rather suspect that a custom cut and contoured foam seat fitted carefully by the owner, used in conjunction with quality marine velcro (Ralph had a good post about this some time ago) and wedged firmly in place with hip padding, would be seaworthy for all intents and purposes. I f David gives it a nod of approval, I will accept his recommendation, given the surf conditions he paddles in (and no doubt has swam in with his boat a few times if just in practice). Please disagree with me in future again, David. I usually say things to draw a bit of fire from the less timid and more ardent supporters of a particular perspective, as they usually are the one's to offer their reasons and conclusions. Mine are a bit different (even with qualifiers). Everything on my boat is either bolted down, screwed down, glued down -- lashed, tied or tethered (okay, so I loose a few water bottles -- and fellow paddlers from time to time). As far as cockpit size conclusions, just remember that everything in life is a compromise. The keyhole cockpit in its present incarnation on sea yaks is a good one but, just don't forget there are long-legged paddlers out there that I've talked to who find the keyhole cockpit arrangement to be a pain to twist into, too -- so you can't please every "body". And as far as re-entering the ocean cockpit from the inverted position, it is actually easier than getting in right-side up. One simply floats back in and rolls up. Well, usually. Gabriel, BTW, is willing to post some pics for me of my cockpit arrangements, etc. He had already said he would do up a CD-Rom sometime with my pics, but I didn't realize he will also put stuff on his web site for general perusal. Mileage will vary on whether it will be worth a look, in terms of my contribution. Also, does anyone know of a good material to cover foam with, for creating a better looking finish after cutting and shaping foa? I'm doing up my wife's (Yvonne's) kayak, and speaker cloth looks rather water-retentive. DL (who is sitting back at a new comfortable eye distance from his screen, with a new cordless keyboard on his lap, thankful my viral eye infection has now cleared up -- oops, off-topic) Gabriel L Romeu wrote: > Important to not the various incarnations of velcro out there. The > usual sewing stuff wears rather quickly and has a poor grip I have also > gotten 2" stuff from marine supply stores quite superior to this more > common type. A combination of wedging and good velcro seems to hold > outfitting quite well. Seems a very few can fit my boat with my hip > pads unless they were removable. > > "Whyte, David" wrote: > > > > Doug saig > > >>In some respects, I wonder how much all this matters to many PW'ers > > anyway. I see a lot of talk about velcro seat fasteners. I found out the > > hard way that this is not a seaworthy, safe way of securing a seat, yet > > many do.<< > > > > Doug I have to disagree with you on this one. It is a very secure way of > > fastening the seat. Quite a few paddlers down under use this technique > > and this is by people (including myself) who practice in the surf and > > paddle in rough weather. I am not a brillant surfer and have been tossed > > around quite a few times when I have muffed y bracing and the seat has > > shown no signs of dislodging. Even when I want to move it, it takes some > > effort to lift it off the deck of the kayak. Mine is held on by two > > lengths of 2" velcro going the length of the seat from fore to aft. > > > > David > > Australia > > -- > Gabriel L Romeu > http://studiofurniture.com furniture, mixed media > http://members.xoom.com/gabrielR a daily observation, photograph ħ text > http://studiofurniture.com/paint paintings, etchings, photographs and > objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). 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on 1/11/01 11:06 PM, Doug Lloyd at dlloyd_at_telus.net wrote: big snip > Also, does anyone know of a good material to cover foam with, for creating a > better looking finish after cutting and shaping foa? I'm doing up my wife's > (Yvonne's) kayak, and speaker cloth looks rather water-retentive. snip Doug, Go to Ken Rasmussen's web site at www.kayakfit.com and look at the photos to see how he uses the 1/16" Dual Density Self Adhesive Foam sheets. You can buy it from him. The outfitting on his Falcon was done about six years ago, proof of how durable this stuff is. No problems with it coming off. It won't follow deep compound curves though. That's when we use the black speaker fabric which you can see an example of in my skinboat on the photo page. The seat, hip pads, and knee braces are covered with the speaker fabric. If it is "water retentive" it was never an issue for me. The 1/16 inch dual density self adhesive foam is easier to work with than the speaker fabric as long as you don't have deep compound curves to follow. Rex Roberton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There is quite a few different surfaces to choose from in speaker fabric if I remember correctly. be nice to add a bit of friction. and an on board stereo... That's when we use the black > speaker fabric which you can see an example of in my skinboat on the photo > page. The seat, hip pads, and knee braces are covered with the speaker > fabric. If it is "water retentive" it was never an issue for me. > > The 1/16 inch dual density self adhesive foam is easier to work with than > the speaker fabric as long as you don't have deep compound curves to follow. > -- Gabriel L Romeu http://studiofurniture.com İİİİİ furniture from the workshop http://studiofurniture.com/diary İİİİİ life as a tourist, daily journal http://studiofurniture.com/paint İİİİİ paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug wrote: > > > Also, does anyone know of a good material to cover foam with, for creating a better looking finish after cutting and shaping foam? I'm doing up my wife's (Yvonne's) kayak, and speaker cloth looks rather water-retentive. < < < to which Rex replied: > > Go to Ken Rasmussen's web site at www.kayakfit.com and look at the photos to see how he uses the 1/16" Dual Density Self Adhesive Foam sheets. < < If one is careful with the shaping of the foam , no glued-on covering is necessary. I added foam thigh braces to my sea kayak and hip pads to my WW kayak using grey minicell foam (3" thick, bought from a paddling shop) and after careful layout, shaping with a 4" low angle grinder/80 grit medium, and hand sanding with progressively finer sandpaper, *used a propane torch to melt the surface fuzz of the minicell*. A low flame and a quick once-over is all that is needed to melt the surface of the minicell into a water-impervious outer layer. If one needs to add a surface layer for more traction, then IMO, the foam is not shaped properly. Besides, gluing any kind of cover only adds extra weight, doesn't add anything *functional* to the boat, and provides one more thing to come undone when least expected. See Gabriel's site for a picture of my thigh braces - 7th from the left at the top of http://www.studiofurniture.com/diary/kayak/outfit/outfit.html#a my $0.02 Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for your perspective. I've often wondered why paddlers needed to cover over their handiwork. Sounds like it is because it may have been poor handiwork :-) I'll follow your suggestions for Yvonne's Huntsman's outfitting. I'm just in the process of tidying up my Norkapp's outfitting too. In my case, I ran an inner keel full length to strengthen and stiffen the hull, and to provide bolt-in potential for the outside plastic keel. As such, I had to surgically section my foam seat, do the glass work, then glue the foam piece back in (less the female image of the inner keel profile). It looks ugly, and I'd like to cover it. I need a material that retains some friction, yet doesn't restrict fast exits for seal landings, as i plan to come up the sides with it too. I'm leaning toward Jack's suggestion of thin neoprene (or what we call cellular chloroprene sheets, with a knitted nylon fabric laminate in Qajakophone). Had anyone had _poor_ success with doing this. Jack said his neoprene has held for 7 years. PS That Gabriel eh? 6 boats between him and Janet, in just two years since he took up sea kayaking. The extrapolations are mind-numbing. He will need truck loads of foam over the next few decades :-) DL Erik/Jane Sprenne wrote: > Doug wrote: > > > > Also, does anyone know of a good material to cover foam > with, for creating a better looking finish after cutting and > shaping foam? I'm doing up my wife's (Yvonne's) kayak, and > speaker cloth looks rather water-retentive. < < < > > to which Rex replied: > > > Go to Ken Rasmussen's web site at www.kayakfit.com and look > at the photos to see how he uses the 1/16" Dual Density Self > Adhesive Foam sheets. < < > > If one is careful with the shaping of the foam , no glued-on > covering is necessary. > > I added foam thigh braces to my sea kayak and hip pads to my WW > kayak using grey minicell foam (3" thick, bought from a paddling > shop) and after careful layout, shaping with a 4" low angle > grinder/80 grit medium, and hand sanding with progressively finer > sandpaper, *used a propane torch to melt the surface fuzz of the > minicell*. A low flame and a quick once-over is all that is > needed to melt the surface of the minicell into a > water-impervious outer layer. > > If one needs to add a surface layer for more traction, then IMO, > the foam is not shaped properly. Besides, gluing any kind of > cover only adds extra weight, doesn't add anything *functional* > to the boat, and provides one more thing to come undone when > least expected. See Gabriel's site for a picture of my thigh > braces - 7th from the left at the top of > http://www.studiofurniture.com/diary/kayak/outfit/outfit.html#a > > my $0.02 > Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Stay tuned Doug, this has just got out of hand (as if it wasn't). When my wife (Rita, Janet is my biz partner) verified my 'need' for this FR boat, her 'needs' expanded as well. Anyway, we don't have a kevlar boat yet and she hates to lift boats atop my truck. Just so it isn't TOO absurd, it is now 3 years of paddling. But as it goes, keeping up the same rate of fleet expansion, we could lend boats to an entire Paddlewise crew gathering in 4.37 years- all fiberglass including a plastic for Duane... and yes, buy stock in a foam company in the next couple of days. And PLEASE, anyone with a boat for sale inexpensively, especially any great surfing WW boats, Mariner Coasters, solo rowing shells, or wave skis, I do not want to hear about it. Beans and rice for the next few months are ok, I have no idea what we would cut out next. > > PS That Gabriel eh? 6 boats between him and Janet, in just two years > since he took up sea kayaking. The extrapolations are mind-numbing. He > will need truck loads of foam over the next few decades :-) > > DL -- Gabriel L Romeu http://studiofurniture.com İİİİİ furniture from the workshop http://studiofurniture.com/diary İİİİİ life as a tourist, daily journal http://studiofurniture.com/paint İİİİİ paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/15/01 9:48:51 AM, romeug_at_erols.com writes: << Just so it isn't TOO absurd, it is now 3 years of paddling. >> Thanks for the correction Gabriel, this changes everything. Now your fleet size seems perfectly normal. Well, . . to me anyway. I'm just searching for a way to get *my* wife to accept your boat to paddler ratios so I can get to work buying another dozen or so boats to set up my whole family. Jed (shaking his head and thanking God that I'm not the only nut here) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I would be happy to help you with some great ways of rationalizing it Jed, but she must love to paddle in order for her to understand... SeaKayakNH_at_aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 1/15/01 9:48:51 AM, romeug_at_erols.com writes: > > << Just so it isn't TOO absurd, it is now 3 years of paddling. >> > > Thanks for the correction Gabriel, this changes everything. Now your > fleet size seems perfectly normal. Well, . . to me anyway. I'm just > searching for a way to get *my* wife to accept your boat to paddler ratios so > I can get to work buying another dozen or so boats to set up my whole family. > > Jed (shaking his head and thanking God that I'm not the only nut here) -- Gabriel L Romeu http://studiofurniture.com İİİİİ furniture from the workshop http://studiofurniture.com/diary İİİİİ life as a tourist, daily journal http://studiofurniture.com/paint İİİİİ paintings, photographs, etchings, objects *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Gabriel L Romeu" <romeug_at_erols.com> > Important to not the various incarnations of velcro out there. The > usual sewing stuff wears rather quickly and has a poor grip I have also > gotten 2" stuff from marine supply stores quite superior to this more > common type. A combination of wedging and good velcro seems to hold > outfitting quite well. Seems a very few can fit my boat with my hip > pads unless they were removable. I'll second that. I've used 50mm industrial Velcro (Home Depot) to hold my removable hip pads in and they don't budge. Note that hip pads take a lot of abuse on entry/exit etc. On the other hand, the glued-in pads in my WW kayak are now peeling off. I'd expect that a _substantial_ amount of industrial or marine Velcro will hold a seat in well. One thing I'd also consider is a Velcro/webbing strap arrangement through a hull mounted tie-down to provide a backup. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > I'll second that. I've used 50mm industrial Velcro (Home Depot) to hold > my removable hip pads in and they don't budge. Note that hip pads take > a lot of abuse on entry/exit etc. On the other hand, the glued-in pads in > my WW kayak are now peeling off. > > I'd expect that a _substantial_ amount of industrial or marine Velcro will > hold a seat in well. One thing I'd also consider is a Velcro/webbing strap > arrangement through a hull mounted tie-down to provide a backup. > > Mike Dumb question, but I'm assuming you glue in the velcro strips? Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: "Steve Posti" <sposti_at_pbpost.com> > > > > I'd expect that a _substantial_ amount of industrial or marine Velcro will > > hold a seat in well. One thing I'd also consider is a Velcro/webbing strap > > arrangement through a hull mounted tie-down to provide a backup. > > > > Mike > > Dumb question, but I'm assuming you glue in the velcro strips? > The ones I got were preglued. This has stuck to the seat quite well (hook part). I sewed the fuzzy part to the nylon pocket that contains the foam padding. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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