I've been talking braces and rescues with fellow teachers because of an upcoming class we are teaching, so my mind wrapped the two together. I would like to hear your thoughts on the T-Rescue. Thanks very much for your input. Larry L. Storer larry_at_onewithgaia.com www.OneWithGaia.com Products to celebrate our relationship with the Earth. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> I've been talking braces and rescues with fellow teachers because of an > upcoming class we are teaching, so my mind wrapped the two together. I > would > like to hear your thoughts on the T-Rescue. Thanks very much for your > input. OK, I'll bite. While I have heard some criticism of the "T" and the "HI" rescues in the past, I find them to be a quick and reliable way to empty the boat of water and get the paddler back in action again. Using the "T" rescue I have managed to get many a paddler back into their boat between sets in the surf zone. I certainly find it to be much quicker and easier then pumping the boat out, not to mention that it would be much more difficult to try to hang onto a boat full of water and keep it and the paddler upright in the event of waves. I have also found it to be relatively easy to perform the "T" rescue on a fully loaded boat. The trick is in the technique of lifting the bow from the water. The best way to do this is to lean your own boat over and hook the edge of your boat under the bow of the boat to be rescued and then lean your boat back over in the opposite direction pulling the bow of the other boat over your deck in the process. Of course the whole process can be made much easier if the person in the water assists, either with helping to lift their boat onto yours, or by pushing down on their stern while you pull their bow up and over your own deck.. That said I do recognize a potential, however small, that the rescuer could hurt themselves in the form of a pulled muscle or perhaps a hurt back if this is attempted with a heavily loaded boat in difficult conditions and one does not take proper precautions or has sloppy technique. If there is any doubt, then choose an alternate method to rescue the boat and paddler. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
* I've been talking braces and rescues with fellow teachers because of an > upcoming class we are teaching, so my mind wrapped the two together. I > would > like to hear your thoughts on the T-Rescue. Thanks very much for your > input. Scott's reply was a wonderful description of the T rescue like We use it her in Europe. * The thing to remember is that in most cases the "victim" is fully capable to assist in his own rescue making it a lot easier to handle a laden boat by f.ex. crawling on the rear end to lift the bow * I have also used this rescue in hard conditions as the "Storm rescue" where the rescued boat stays on top of the rescuer until the "victim is back in his boat with spray skirt and all and the pushed back in the water. This might cost you a spray skirt after some time, but you get the guy out in the water with a empty cockpit. * Pumping the boat is something we never do, but I feel that the important thing for an instructor is to have a whole range of tools to fall back on. There will always be the situation where your usual tool/technique does not work. This is the moment of truth, you'll know the experienced instructor by the way his dishes up with alternative possibilities In the end there is no one right way, the art is to choose the right way for the right situation and the right time. Have fun out there Lenze www.havkajakcenter.dk *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:42 PM 2/23/2004 +0100, Lenze wrote: >* I've been talking braces and rescues with fellow teachers because of an > > upcoming class we are teaching, so my mind wrapped the two together. I > > would > > like to hear your thoughts on the T-Rescue. Thanks very much for your > > input. > > >Scott's reply was a wonderful description of the T rescue like We use it >her in Europe. >* The thing to remember is that in most cases the "victim" is fully capable >to assist in his own rescue making it a lot easier to handle a laden boat by >f.ex. crawling on the rear end to lift the bow The most recent issue of Sea Kayaker magazine (my copy arrived last weekend) has a very good article on the T-rescue. It suggest a different school of though regarding having the victim assist in the rescue. Rather than have the victim assist in lifting the boat it is suggest that the victim go to the bow or your boat (keeping their paddle). That way you can always see the victim and, while having them push down on the stern help lift the bow, you're also dragging them through the water as you pull the bow of their boat in front of you. There is also the possibility that the victims boat will have a rudder and having them grab onto their stern in rough conditions might be and additional injury risk. I have also done many T-rescues in controlled and "real world" conditions. In a few instances it involved paddlers that were in a kayak for the first time and had no idea they could even reenter their boat in deep water. Giving short and direct instructions is very important in this case as is practicing the technique so that it *can* be done quickly without assistance. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<There is also the possibility that the victims boat will have a rudder> You must be kidding :) Lenze *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
What works best for perimeter lines? Is 3/16 thick enough? Elastic or not? Putting perimiter lines on my Chesepeake was on my winter maintenance schedule before this thread started. I didn't put them on when I built it, and soon discovered, as someone previously noted, that a wet wood boat is slicker than pig snot. Robert *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
To effectively execute a T-rescue it is important that the "victim's" kayak be outfitted with deck lines--and that these lines be loose enough to enable the rescuer to get their hands around. Though getting better, too many North American manufactured kayaks are not outfitted with deck lines when sold. And, often those that are outfitted with deck lines, the lines are too tight--especially if paddling in cold waters and hands are covered by neoprene gloves. John Browning Milwaukee, WI *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> To effectively execute a T-rescue it is important that the "victim's" kayak > > be outfitted with deck lines--and that these lines be loose enough to enable > > the rescuer to get their hands around. I'm sorry, but I don't understand this at all. I have done countless "T" rescues and would have to say the very vast majority of boats that I have applied this to do not have deck lines. I don't think I really used the deck lines for the rescues on the boats that did have them. Please understand that I have nothing at all against deck lines, they can be a nice little luxury in certain situations, but I can't say that I really consider them to be a necessity in your typical everyday sea kayaking type of scenario, and they are certainly are not required for doing the "T" rescue. Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
While I agree deck lines make life a lot easier, a T rescue can be executed on boat without the lines - although it more difficult. I know from experience. sid To effectively execute a T-rescue it is important that the "victim's" kayak be outfitted with deck lines--and that these lines be loose enough to enable the rescuer to get their hands around. Though getting better, too many North American manufactured kayaks are not outfitted with deck lines when sold. And, often those that are outfitted with deck lines, the lines are too tight--especially if paddling in cold waters and hands are covered by neoprene gloves. John Browning Milwaukee, WI *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Deck lines There is a general difference in approach between American and British Kayak. Where American tend to be leisure touring kayak and British performance kayaks. So happy to see that most American manufacturers now are introducing British style kayaks. For a performance kayaks deck lines and end toggles are standard equipment both are necessary in T rescues. The deck line ensure the person in the water a positive grip on the boat and a safe transit from wherever he is to the rear of the boat to assist by pushing down. End toggles ( often misnamed in American literature as carrying handle) are to be able to hold on to the boat even in surf zone conditions enabling a grip even if the boat is turning and twisting. End toggles therefore should be placed so they hang down from the end of the boat (in stead of mounted on top of the deck) This is of course impossible with boats with a rudder, but we wont start that discussion again :) Lenze ( who imports American boats to Denmark) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Lenze said: > Deck lines > > There is a general difference in approach between American > and British Kayak. Where American tend to be leisure touring > kayak and British performance kayaks. So happy to see that > most American manufacturers now are introducing British style > kayaks. For a performance kayaks deck lines and end toggles > are standard equipment both are necessary in T rescues. Lenze, I will agree with you that deck lines SHOULD be standard equipment on all sea kayaks (as well as toggles). However, not having them, only makes a "T" rescue more difficult, but not impossible. Steve Holtzman (who paddles a British designed boat, built in Canada, in US waters). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sure Steve I think I expresed my selv wrongly (what boat are you paddling?) Of course you can perform a T rescue without decklines and toggles. An other thing some contributors have mentioned is the impotence of using you whole body and boat to do these rescues. It all works a lot better if you are so confident in your bout that you can twist you body and lean over the other boat . I see a lot of people how are doing rescues ( and other disciplines) sitting straight up, looking forwards and working with the hands somewhere to the side. I think this is the main problem for those who claim that T rescue's do not work in rough conditions. Lenze www.havkajakcenter.dk Lenze, I will agree with you that deck lines SHOULD be standard equipment on all sea kayaks (as well as toggles). However, not having them, only makes a "T" rescue more difficult, but not impossible. Steve Holtzman (who paddles a British designed boat, built in Canada, in US waters). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: Lenze [mailto:lenze_at_havkajakcenter.dk] > > Sure Steve > > I think I expressed my self wrongly (what boat are you paddling?) > > Of course you can perform a T rescue without decklines and toggles. > > An other thing some contributors have mentioned is the > impotence of using you whole body and boat to do these > rescues. It all works a lot better if you are so confident in > your bout that you can twist you body and lean over the other boat . Lenze, You're right about this, but there's also another technique that works real well (especially if there are deck lines and toggles). Right the boat if necessary without emptying it, then pull it up over your skirt (the smooth hull is easier to pull over yourself then the deck is). Once the cockpit is far enough out of the water, you can rotate the boat to drain it, then slide it in and perform a normal assisted rescue. Works a lot faster and easier. Also if you are having trouble getting the boat over your skirt, lean your boat way over and get the other boats bow over your boat. Then straighten up. As you mentioned, if you can twist90 degrees to your own boat, you will have a lot more leverage. Steve Holtzman PS. My boat is a CD Gulfstream *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Deck Lines While I believe deck lines should be a standard on sea kayaks they are in no means vital to performing a T rescue - on either the boat be rescued or the rescuers boat. I have rescued many a person in boats without deck lines. We are starting to see more manufactures designing and buidling both composite and plastic boats with deck lines. best wishes sid *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Lenze, I will agree with you that deck lines SHOULD be standard > equipment on all sea kayaks (as well as toggles). > > However, not having them, only makes a "T" rescue more difficult, but > not impossible. Hmmmm, interesting. I have never had even the slightest difficulty doing a "T" rescue on a boat without decklines. I wonder why that is? Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Hmmmm, interesting. I have never had even the slightest difficulty doing a > "T" rescue on a boat without decklines. I wonder why that is? > > Scott > So.Cal. The only time I remember having trouble was on a long homemade wood kayak. I couldn't reach from the toggle to the cockpit, and the middle section was slicker than pigsnot. Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Same problem with our boats. Vickie has a mariner Elan and I have an Express. It's a long-long ways from the toggle to the deck bungies. Neither boat has deck lines in the classic sense. Thankfully, both the standard bow lines that come with the boats and slightly enhanced quick release tow system I now have on them solve the problem. Without them it's very risky to pull the boat past the bow toggle and stopping at the bow toggle doesn't come close to doing the job. The cockpit is just too far to the rear. I'm not familiar with the viscosity of pigsnot because in SoCal we usually use just plain snot. Both of these boats are definitely slicker than (plain) snot when wet. Steve Brown -----Original Message----- The only time I remember having trouble was on a long homemade wood kayak. I couldn't reach from the toggle to the cockpit, and the middle section was slicker than pigsnot. Geoff *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/24/2004 7:26:46 PM Central Standard Time, KiAyker_at_aol.com writes: << Hmmmm, interesting. I have never had even the slightest difficulty doing a "T" rescue on a boat without decklines. I wonder why that is? >> Since I started this discussion by stating "To effectively execute a T-rescue it is important that the "victim's" kayak be outfitted with deck lines--and that these lines be loose enough to enable the rescuer to get their hands around." I'm going to chime back in-- My experience has been that when handling another (i.e., victim's) kayak, whether it is for a T-rescue, or needing to repair a leaking boat, it is MORE effective to control and handle said boat if it is outfitted with properly fitted deck lines. In performing a rescue in 4 foot seas, I once had a kayak without decklines ripped from my grasp by a rogue breaker. Wet kayaks can be pretty slippery too, even in warm weather. Paddling in cold weather, the decks become icy--making rescues without decklines very difficult, but not necessarily impossible. I don't know about the conditions that other paddle in, but I do know that in the conditions I paddle in, I want the people I paddle with to have their kayaks outfitted with decklines, they may make a difference when time is of the essence. John Browning Milwaukee, WI *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi All I have sat quietly reading this discussion but feel that I need to agree with the last comments and put in my two cents worth (thats dimes to those of you in the US) I am Manager - Canoe Education at Australian Canoeing with responsibility for the Australian qualification system. I also have many years experience as a commercial sea kayak guide and Outdoor Educator (taking school students on sea expeditions). I have also managed a sea kayak training centre. In Australia on a "normal" spring/summer afternoon we get sea breezes and wind/wave conditions that make it impossible for anyone other than Ian Thorpe to easily get back to their boat in the event of separation - decklines make it much easier to keep hold of your boat if you do end up in the water. Further as per John Browning's comments we often get sea conditions where (unless the persons boat is made of a sticky substance or very badly scratched) it is near impossible to grab hold of a hull - decklines make all the difference. Decklines are also a good point to attach side-by-side towing systems as well as long tows (many attachment points are always safer than one. Finally on the question of getting the "victim" to assist in the rescue - I could go on forever about this however if a person ends up unexpectedly in the sea they are probably no longer an asset and should be treated very differently. Ian Dewey -----Original Message----- From: Seakayakerjb_at_aol.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SV: SV: T-Rescue not T-brace In a message dated 2/24/2004 7:26:46 PM Central Standard Time, KiAyker_at_aol.com writes: << Hmmmm, interesting. I have never had even the slightest difficulty doing a "T" rescue on a boat without decklines. I wonder why that is? >> Since I started this discussion by stating "To effectively execute a T-rescue it is important that the "victim's" kayak be outfitted with deck lines--and that these lines be loose enough to enable the rescuer to get their hands around." I'm going to chime back in-- My experience has been that when handling another (i.e., victim's) kayak, whether it is for a T-rescue, or needing to repair a leaking boat, it is MORE effective to control and handle said boat if it is outfitted with properly fitted deck lines. In performing a rescue in 4 foot seas, I once had a kayak without decklines ripped from my grasp by a rogue breaker. Wet kayaks can be pretty slippery too, even in warm weather. Paddling in cold weather, the decks become icy--making rescues without decklines very difficult, but not necessarily impossible. I don't know about the conditions that other paddle in, but I do know that in the conditions I paddle in, I want the people I paddle with to have their kayaks outfitted with decklines, they may make a difference when time is of the essence. John Browning Milwaukee, WI *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> The only time I remember having trouble was on a long homemade wood kayak. > I couldn't reach from the toggle to the cockpit, and the middle section was > slicker than pigsnot. I'm afraid I don't have a lot of experience with "pigsnot," so I'll have to take your word on this :-)) I just don't get this emphasis on deck lines for doing the TX rescue. Perhaps I am assuming that the boat being rescued has bulkheads --- or at least a rear bulkhead. This may be a bit presumptuous on my part. If the boat in question has bulkheads then it is a very simple matter of lifting the bow, allowing the boat to drain, and dropping it back in the water again. It's just not that big of a deal! I've done this countless times - in the surf zone no less! In fact in really rough conditions one is better off with a loose grip on the boat then the tight one deck lines would provide. When a wave hits, if you have a tight grip on the decklines then you are inviting an injury! Of course if the boat in question does not have bulkheads then the rescue can be a bit more involved. Not a lot more involved, mind you, but just a bit. In this case, to completely empty the boat of water (which may, or may not actually be necessary) one must wrestle the boat across their deck until it balances and the rescuer can rock the boat from end to end in order to get the water out the boat. In rough conditions this can be a little more work, and decklines could make the process a little smoother. Not a lot smoother, but a little. Of course, who is paddling a sea kayak in rough conditions without a rear bulkhead? As Mr. Sutherland has pointed out, this rescue, as with most rescues, gets even easier when the swimmer assists. I will attempt to utilize the swimmer in the rescue whenever possible, however, unless it is a good paddling buddy that I have practiced with, I usually find that I can accomplish the rescue much more quickly without their help. I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to survive?????????? Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Given the conditions it is a good bet that many did not. But unlike them, we have a choice. We can do things the Inuit's never dreamed about that make our paddling safer and more enjoyable. > I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end > toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to > survive?????????? > > Scott > So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You are quite right many did die At one time kayakdead was the main course of dead among Greenland Inuit Thank god for these modern inventions Lenze Given the conditions it is a good bet that many did not. But unlike them, we have a choice. We can do things the Inuit's never dreamed about that make our paddling safer and more enjoyable. > I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end > toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to > survive?????????? > > Scott *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
[Moderator's Note: Content unaltered. Excessive quoting (including headers/footers/sig lines/extraneous text from previous posts, etc.) have been removed. Please edit quoted material in addition to removing header/trailers when replying to posts.] Think Again, Inuit did not exit the boat the either had he skills to paddle or died !!!! Lenze I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to survive?????????? Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:29 PM 2/24/2004 -0500, KiAyker_at_aol.com wrote: > > The only time I remember having trouble was on a long homemade wood kayak. > > I couldn't reach from the toggle to the cockpit, and the middle section was > > slicker than pigsnot. [snip] > As Mr. Sutherland has pointed out, this rescue, as with most rescues, > gets >even easier when the swimmer assists. I will attempt to utilize the swimmer >in the rescue whenever possible, however, unless it is a good paddling buddy >that I have practiced with, I usually find that I can accomplish the >rescue much >more quickly without their help. Good point. I would certainly not count on a victim to assist in a rescue. Most of the t-rescues I have done were with victims that had never done a t-rescue before. I have also seen someone demonstrate a technique that involved paddling up to the capsized boat, grabbing the bow, rolling away from the boat, turning the boat over to empty the water, then rolling back while turning the boat back upright. From contact to having the boat back upright, mostly empty, took less than 10 seconds. > I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end >toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to >survive?????????? That's a bad example because the Inuit never came out of their boats. They'd either roll up themselves, or use the bow or paddle of another boat to right themselves. Coming out of the boat in water as cold as what they paddled in was almost sure death. They also didn't have PFD's or wet/dry suits. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just don't get this emphasis on deck lines for doing the TX rescue. Perhaps I am assuming that the boat being rescued has bulkheads --- or at least a rear bulkhead. AND I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to survive?????????? Scott So.Cal. One consideration about deck lines is the idea that the paddler, the owner, has some responsibility for making her or himself "rescuable", I think. And deck lines make a difference. So, if I want to be as safe as possible, I have an obligation to consider them as an aid to whomever might have to rescue me. Plus, they sure make it easier to haul the boat out on expeditions where landing spots are not always friendly. AND The Inuit were probably, as traditional people always have been, incredibly risk averse. Conditions are bad - you don't go out. And for those times when they got caught in bad conditions, they had and have all those techniques for rolling, rescue and recovery. But getting out of the boat has never been one of them. For the Inuit man paddling a kayak was probably the same as driving a car for most of us. A routine thing that took a lot of practice at first and for which a lot of experience was built up over time. It would be interesting to know if their accident and fatality rates were anything like ours on a time-in-the-vehicle basis. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/25/2004 7:22:55 AM Central Standard Time, sh_at_actglobal.net writes: << Right the boat if necessary without emptying it, then pull it up over your skirt (the smooth hull is easier to pull over yourself then the deck is) >> Additionally, if there is a spare paddle or compass on the fore deck of the "victim's" boat, they can get it the way when dragging it across your cockpit with deck-side down. I can also see that it might happen that a hatch cover could also become dislodged. The last thing I do before separating after doing a rescue is check that grab loops are out, and all hatch covers, and deck gear are in place and properly secured (or as best can be given the conditions). If not, we remain rafted until all is secured. Then I (as the rescuer) ask the victim "Ready to paddle?" Once they respond in the affirmative, we separate. Someone mentioned about using the decklines for towing--I do as well. Depending on the conditions though the deck fittings take a lot of stress. During a BCU 5 Star training class last fall, I "suffered" two broken fittings on day-one and one on day-two while being towed. In both instances I remained "on-tow" as the tow lines were secured to the decklines and not simply looped around them and clipped to itself (the towline). I'll also add that the instructors were duly impressed that while waiting for our shuttle to arrive on day-one, I whipped out my repair kit and replaced the broken deck fittings. Still had spares and fixed the third one before the start of day-three. Upon close examination of all my deck fittings (1997 NDK Romany), I noticed that a couple of others looked "weak" (ashen in color, though I routinely 303 them, but apparently not frequently enough), and I discoverd a crack in one. I've since replaced all of the old ones, and will 303 and inspect more often. I use 4mm cord for my decklines. Elastic cord (bungee)--I only use for storing gear on my deck, and in my repair kit. John Browning Milwaukee, WI *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
<I have also seen someone demonstrate a technique that involved paddling up to the capsized boat, grabbing the bow, rolling away from the boat, turning the boat over to empty the water, then rolling back while turning the boat back upright. From contact to having the boat back upright, mostly empty, took less than 10 seconds.> That sounds innovative got to try it ! Lenze *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Scott wrote: <snip>>>>>>I think it is worth noting that the Inuit paddled without decklines, end toggles, bulkheads, bow lines, or pfd's!!! I wonder how they ever managed to survive??????????<<<<<<< It must have been because of a high birthrate and the fact that the birthrate is dependent on the number of surviving females rather than on the number of surviving males. A lot of the men who left to go hunting in kayaks never came back home. I imagine this was because when they got nervous they inflated their seal skin spontoons and then couldn't paddle as fast as the spontoon encumbered kayak was blown away. I wasn't there so this is just idle speculation. Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We recommend the wedge rescue, no dragging of deck on deck, fast and simple. details are below; Wedge rescue This is one of the fastest methods of clearing the cockpit of water. It works best with boats with minimum volume cockpits, and can be hard on spray covers and fore decks. The victim rights their kayak once the wet exit is completed and moves to the bow and holds onto the toggle. The rescuer approaches the victims bow with an angle of 45600 between the two. As the rescuers bow crosses that of the rescuee, the rescuee grasps the rescuers bow toggle and passes theirs to the rescuer. The rescuer grasps the rescuees kayak by the deck lines and pulls so that it rides up onto their foredeck (whilst upright) until the cockpit is clear of the water. Timing of the pull with wave action can save effort and avoid being speared. The rescuer then rolls the boat toward themselves so that it inverts spilling the water from the cockpit. When the cockpit is clear of the water; roll it back so that it is upright. Do not try to remove every last drop: you will not be able to and will waste time if you try. The kayak is slid off the deck and supported for the victim to re-enter. On the various Inuit notes - they did a fantastic job in EXTREME conditions with VERY limited resources - with our unlimited resources we should be able to learn from them and then create the next level of best practice, not be held back by the past. Regards Ian *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Steve posted (snip): >>I'm not familiar with the viscosity of pigsnot because in SoCal we usually use just plain snot. Both of these boats are definitely slicker than (plain) snot when wet.<< I lost "grip" of my Nordkapp on one occasion after "involuntarily" exiting the boat in high winds. I'd installed new lines recently just before the incident, upping the diameter, which left the perimeter line(s) too tight in their existing deck-fitting holes. I drilled the diameter of the wholes a bit bigger after that incident (with a Dremel-like tool) and slacked off the line a bit too (cut some new lines longer, which is actually a bit of an expense buying good quality cordage all the time). Decklines aren't much help if the paddler can't get their fingers under them. I could have gone back to a smaller diameter deckline, but liked the thicker diameter of 1/4", being a little more robust and easier on the fingers once said grip has been established. Being a mostly solo paddler, my deck lines are my business, there for my use and emergencies -- though I have had occasion for emergency raft-ups in heavy seas, and can guarantee the list that negative talk of deck-line redundancy for open ocean paddling is as absurdly abusive toward overall safety as is some of the other opinions often expressed by these sublime jesters. Okay, takes one to know one :-) BTW, plain snot obviously meets Kosher requirements for those packing Matzo Balls in their day-hatch, though I do think Mel Gibson recently greased the lining of his pockets using a lot of pigsnot. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 2/28/2004 3:54:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, dalloyd_at_telus.net writes: BTW, plain snot obviously meets Kosher requirements for those packing Matzo Balls in their day-hatch, though I do think Mel Gibson recently greased the lining of his pockets using a lot of pigsnot. This ain't the place for this. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>though I do think Mel Gibson recently greased the lining of his pockets using a lot of pigsnot<< >This ain't the place fot this.< Sorry 'bout that -- poor late night humour and off-topic. In terms of the subject header, I was talking with a fellow Victoria paddler who was out with a small group on a semi-exposed day trip a week or so ago. One of the paddlers was a fairly new paddler, but the rest of the group figured there was enough back-up to look after this guy. A low swell was running with a bit of a chop and a 5-knot current a couple of headland west of Race Rocks. Apparently, the new paddler in question attempeted to run a gauntlet through a narrow slit that seperates off a small island in front of a perfectly-placed West Coast lunch stop. On a high tide, the gap can be negotiated in a reasonably safe manner, sea state dependant. One of the more advanced paddlers took the long way around the island, pulling into the bay where there is a visual line-of-sight out to sea through the slit. From the back side, as it were, the paddler put up his hand as a "stop" signal, as he thought it not advisable to run the gap when he saw who was coming through. For some reason, the new paddler misinterpreted the signal as meaning it was okay to proceed. I do not believe the group follows any particular pre-arranged signal strategy. The paddler in question capzised in the boistrious movement where the water shallows at the narrow point. The other paddlers moved in cautiously, not wanting to hurt themselves, yet realising the new paddler was in some truoble. Fortunately, the paddler was adept enough to get back in the cockpit during a lull, utalizing the shallow water to board, then high-tailed it out. Unlike the incident well documented on PW recently (a very good acounting of the incident, BTW), the paddler was not hurt. The outside of the island can be a bit choppy (a reason some run the gap, other than it's just a shorter route into the bay from the westward approach). The paddler was a bit cold and shakey, and went over again. The boats were lightly loaded, and a T-Rescue was accomplished post haste. It was decided to take the paddler to a more sheltered location for rewarming/settling down. The area is the same setting where some of these paddlers got into trouble last year (minus inexperienced paddlers for the most part) and decided to abandon their kayaks, opting to walk out on the rough local trail (some returing to paddle out later in the week, and some portaging their kayaks out later). Think cliffs, wind, shallows, swell, boils, current, cold. I've been out to this area in every conceviable condition, solo and with other paddlers. I'm actually impressed with the paddlers who have turned back when they felt threatened with further exposure - at least that is how I feel in retrospect, now that I've had time to think about how difficult it can be for certain paddlers to voice their aversion when surrounded by a bunch of weekend warriors. As for the new paddler who got into trouble, I'm glad he was out with some caring, skilled paddlers. But I'd hate to think this fellow, who could concieviably want to do more solo, exposed paddling, might be out there on a really rough day. The Victoria paddler who relayed this story to me was kind enough to help the paddler who required the T-Rescue to subsequently review and learn some bracing skills, stern ruddering, etc. I hope the new paddler listens, learns, and progresses at an appropriate pace in the sport. Anything else would snot be nice. Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> though I have had > occasion for emergency raft-ups in heavy seas, and can guarantee the list > that negative talk of deck-line redundancy for open ocean paddling is as > absurdly abusive toward overall safety as is some of the other opinions > often expressed by these sublime jesters. Hey, I resemble that! While this is most likely a poke at me (or perhaps I'm just paranoid - no I'm not - yes I am :-) I would like it to go on record that I do realize and appreciate the utility of decklines for open water paddling. For people doing the kind of paddling that Mr. Lloyd does I would consider decklines to be an absolute necessity. Then there are the Doug Lloyd wannabes who want to pretend that they do that kind of paddling. Hey, if it makes them happy then what's the harm? However, I have to believe that the very vast majority of "sea kayaking" is NOT done in extreme conditions and the novice reading this and other newsgroups about this sport might get the impression that they cannot participate in this activity responsibly unless they invest thousands of dollars in rescue and safety equipment and fill their boat up with an abundance of high tech crap! I have been paddling on the ocean for over thirty years and very rarely use much of the stuff that is given such tremendous importance on the group - and much to the chagrin of several of the people on this list, I'm sure, I'm still alive and well! I just attempt to instill a little balance to the discussions. Some times I think I do this better then others :-)) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have been paddling on the ocean for over thirty years and very rarely use much of the stuff that is given such tremendous importance on the group - and much to the chagrin of several of the people on this list, I'm sure, I'm still alive and well! I just attempt to instill a little balance to the discussions. Scott So.Cal. Your logic works equally well to support not wearing seat belts, not having a fire extinguisher in the home, not wearing a pfd. All that because I have never had an auto accident where a seat belt made any difference, I have never been in a home that caught on fire and I have never needed my pfd to save my life or even make a rescue easier. Your opinion is your opinion, but my opinion is that your opinion is certainly not even a little bit balanced. It seems to say that, since only an immeasurably small number of paddlers fail to survive their trips, prudent safety practices are not really that important. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Feb 29, 2004, at 5:06 PM, James wrote: > I have been paddling on the ocean for over thirty years and very rarely > use much of the stuff that is given such tremendous importance on the > group - and much to the chagrin of several of the people on this list, > I'm sure, I'm > still alive and well! I just attempt to instill a little balance to > the > discussions. Scott So.Cal. > > Your logic works equally well to support not wearing seat belts, not > having a fire extinguisher in the home, not wearing a pfd. All that > because I have never had an auto accident where a seat belt made any > difference, I have never been in a home that caught on fire and I have > never needed my pfd to save my life or even make a rescue easier. I haven't been reading this whole thread, but while I think it is a really good idea to always wear a PFD, there are times a rational person can make a reasonable choice to forego "best practice" without being irresponsible. Last summer I brought some friends paddling. It was a warm day in the height of summer and the conditions were calm. I found I had forgotten to bring enough PFDs for everyone. So I gave the PFDs I did have to my friends and didn't wear one myself. It was unreasonable to make an hour round trip to my house to get one more PFD. It was also silly to just go home without paddling. There was a risk that I could have died due to the decision. But it would have required that I capsize by mistake (unlikely due to the conditions and my experience), I would then would have had to fail to roll (unlikely as I've got a reliable roll and am willing to keep trying until I get it). If I did resort to wet exit I would then need to fail to reenter, failing to reenter alone would then require the help of my friends or passing boats. If they couldn't help, I would need to be far enough from shore that I couldn't swim in order for the capsize to kill me (summer water is warm and we weren't going more than 100 yds from shore the whole day). OK, a heart attack or other catastrophic event could have created this situation, but the best way to limit the damage from these is to stay home with an ambulance running outside. Sometimes assuming a small amount of additional risk is worthwhile and OK. Just because there are certain best practices which everyone should consider when going out in a small boat, it is not automatically irresponsible if someone chooses to skip something. A rational evaluation of the risks involved can result in the decision that a certain safety factor really doesn't change the risk substantially in a certain situation. Whether it is a PFD or deck lines or carrying a VHF, signal flares, or whatever there are perfectly rational and responsible reasons why you might choose not to follow what would be considered the "safest" way to proceed. What is important is that you know what you are doing and why you are doing it. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 824 Thompson St Glastonbury, CT 06033 USA Ph/Fx: (860) 659-8847 http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Just because there are certain best practices which everyone should consider when going out in a small boat, it is not automatically irresponsible if someone chooses to skip something. A rational evaluation of the risks involved can result in the decision that a certain safety factor really doesn't change the risk substantially in a certain situation. Whether it is a PFD or deck lines or carrying a VHF, signal flares, or whatever there are perfectly rational and responsible reasons why you might choose not to follow what would be considered the "safest" way to proceed. What is important is that you know what you are doing and why you are doing it. Nick Schade I really overplayed my hand, as usual. I only meant that it is wise, prudent and important to allow for the risks as best we can. And, to me, deck lines are in the category of "likely to be useful a lot of times when not really necessary, and fantastic to have when necessary". And it is important for leaders, instructors and vocal folks to stay with the tradition that safety is emphasized above almost everything. So I was attempting to say that it is incumbent upon paddlers to everything prudent to be safe and upon us to remind others, and be reminded ourselves,that it is so. Others are saying it better. My skin on frame boat has no deck lines, nor does one of my doubles. And I have done, and continue to do, lots of things that may kill me. I didn't mean to be Caesar's wife, just a voice of "reason." If a poor voice at that. Jim Tibensky *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Your logic works equally well to support not wearing seat belts, not > having a fire extinguisher in the home, not wearing a pfd. All that > because I have never had an auto accident where a seat belt made any > difference, I have never been in a home that caught on fire and I have > never needed my pfd to save my life or even make a rescue easier. Your > opinion is your opinion, but my opinion is that your opinion is certainly > not even a little bit balanced. It seems to say that, since only an > immeasurably small number of paddlers fail to survive their trips, > prudent safety practices are not really that important. No, what I'm saying is that prudent safety practices are dependant on each individual paddling situation - paddler skill and experiance, enviroment and equipment. Two seperate paddling trips in two different locations may have very different requirements for what constitutes "prudent" safety practices. In fact two different paddlers on the same trip may still have very different requirements so that while a blanket safety rule may not be enough for one paddler, it may be total overkill for the other. But let's take a look at your argument, shall we? You: A paddler in Alaska needed to use a handgun to fend off an aggressive Grizzly Bear. That handgun saved his life. Therefore all paddlers should carry a loaded handgun with them at all times. Me: Yeah, but I live in Southern California, and even though the Grizzly Bear is our state symbol we don't have any of them living here anymore. In fact it would be a pretty strange situation if any kind of bear were to make it to the coast of Southern California. So why can't I leave the handgun home when I'm paddling locally and only carry it when I am out of state in bear country? You: Because you need practice carrying it, and get in the habit of having it with you. Besides, if you don't carry a handgun at all times then you will be setting a bad example to those people who do paddle in bear country and really should always carry one. Me: Yeah, but don't you think people are generally intelligent enough to make that distinction without needing you to do it for them? You: No. Me: Whatever! Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>>>...often expressed by these sublime jesters.<<< >Hey, I resemble that!...However, I have to believe that the very vast majority of "sea kayaking" is NOT done in extreme conditions and the novice reading this and other newsgroups about this sport might get the impression that they cannot participate in this activity responsibly unless they invest thousands of dollars in rescue and safety equipment and fill their boat up with an abundance of high tech crap!< I can't remember, is it against listserver etiquette to openly bait? No problem Scott at my end, always good to hear folks and their _reactions_. As long as you know it's _always_ in fun and the interest of provoking thought/discussion. However, you do make a bit of a jump from a discussion about decklines (and PFD's I suppose -- that dead-horse we've beat so many times, Paddlewise should be marketing its own signature-series glue by now), to "thousands of dollars in rescue and safety equipment..." Your post brought back some interesting memories from bygone days: In the early eighties, a small group of Victoria paddlers allied themselves with a local paddlesport retailer (who sold British kayaks) and formed a kayak association (called O.K.A.B.C). We were wanting to adopt a BCU style assessment/coaching scheme that might eventually spread across the land. A group of dedicated paddlers in Vancouver changed their name to S.K.A.B.C eventually and did everything they could to prevent "Victoria" from trying to represent the sport. At the first public meeting on this rather emotional-at-the-time subject, I was sent over as a representative of the OKABC, and basically faced a ravenous crowd who were none too happy to see me. There must have been "SUCKER" written all over my head for volunteering to go. It was supremely bitten off you might say. Anyway, the audience wailed away about the possible implementation of mandatory decklines for all kayaks used on the ocean. I'm not sure where they got the idea that the OKABC was trying to foist this on BC paddlers (well, maybe I do; could have been the Brit-boat retailer), but I was rather amused. This thread reminds me of that day long ago. Well, sorry for the history lesson. I would like to go on to quote Wayne Horowich on the subject of PFD's however. Surely, he is a man of moderation and balance from your neck of the woods. The following excerpt is off Wayne's University of sea Kayaking website: "Over the past few years I have re-evaluated my priorities and my responsibilities to myself and others. Even though I have practiced putting my PFD on in the water under all kinds of conditions I have to admit it is impossible to do when you are unconscious. Once you admit to the possibility that you could be rendered unconscious without significant warning then you may start rethinking your desire to paddle without wearing your PFD. Possibilities for sudden unconsciousness are: heart attack, stroke, seizure, dehydration, hit by motorized craft, impact from large marine life, allergic reaction to marine organism when hands or body are in the water (i.e.: jelly fish type creatures, electric rays,...), hit by your own kayak or partner's kayak in a surf zone, hitting a submerged object... only to mention a few." He continues: "I love my wife dearly. If she were to pass away suddenly I would be devastated. She tells me she feels the same way about me. (Although I do wonder why the sudden increase in my life insurance, by her request.) Knowing how I would feel convinced me to minimize the possibilities of making my wife a widow and put her through what I would never want to feel. To put this in perspective, I still do things that are high risk but I also calculate the possibilities. However, losing my life over a decision of wearing a PFD is a no brainer. "Put up with a little discomfort Wayne and wear the PFD!!!" are my words to myself." He does go on to talk about occasion not to wear one's PFD, as well as anecdotal highlights of backup uses of PFD's, etc. Food for thought, anyway, for those interested in a balanced diet. See you on the water some day. I'd like to see some of you Paddlewisers in some real surf -- see if folks can put their money where their mouth is. Likewise, I'm sure. 'Till then. Doug Lloyd Victoria BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Paddlewisers, Speaking of Wayne Horodowich's website (http://useakayak.org/), he just added a section on the issue of wearing helmets, which came up because of a recent head injury here in Southern California. It is under the "Reflections" section. I'd link to the page directly, but the website uses frames. Duane Strosaker Southern California www.rollordrown.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Lloyd" <dalloyd_at_telus.net> To: <KiAyker_at_aol.com> Cc: "paddlewise" <PaddleWise_at_paddlewise.net> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] SV: SV: T-Rescue not T-brace > > Well, sorry for the history lesson. I would like to go on to quote Wayne > Horowich on the subject of PFD's however. Surely, he is a man of moderation > and balance from your neck of the woods. The following excerpt is off > Wayne's University of sea Kayaking website: *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_paddlewise.net] On Behalf Of Larry L. Storer > > I've been talking braces and rescues with fellow teachers > because of an upcoming class we are teaching, so my mind > wrapped the two together. I would like to hear your thoughts > on the T-Rescue. Larry, I find the T rescue to be a very viable rescue. If you have a heavily loaded boat, instead of just trying to lift the boat over your combing, I find the following technique (taught to me by Wayne Horodowich) to be the best. Prior to righting the boat, grab it's bow while it is at 90 degrees to you. Lean way over so that your boat gets under the other boat's bow. Then start righting your boat. You are now using the buoyancy of your boat to help lift the capsized boat's bow. As soon as you get the boat drained, flip it right side up, push, pull, and walk your boat around it so that the boats are now bow to stern and perform a typical assisted rescue. Hope this helps. The technique has worked for me when the capsized boat was too heavy for me to lift. Steve Holtzman Southern CA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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