I['m interested in impressions. I'm in the market for a used Klepper Expedition II and found out about the similar boats that Mark is building at Long Haul Products which used to be the Klepper Service Center. By way on introduction, my name is John and I have been paddling a Folboat double since 1960 when I built it in my living room. Read the ads in Boys Life for a couple of years before I could earn enough paper route money to make the purchase of the kit. My mom had threadbare rugs so she didn't mind. I built the boat to float in the Delaware River and have used it in many lakes and Bays on the East Coast. I still have the original color packet that Folbot sent me and I must have read it a hundred times before I ordered the boat. Best hundred bucks I ever spent. My 12 dollar Folbot paddles are still going strong, but the boat needs some repair before I don't trust it in anything but our little lake in the Poconos. I'm a big paddler 6'4" and north of 250 and like the open cockpit. We have a spraycover for more adventureous paddling, but don't need it most of the time. My 5'2" wife can't manage car topping a big double on our explorer and she has wanted a Klepper ever since she saw one being assembled at Bar Harbour a number of years ago. Soooo..... Don't bust me about folders until you've paddled your boat across the Atlantic. A relaxed boat for a relaxed guy. John MacKechnie Bethlehem, PA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dear John: Check out www.foldingkayaks.org, Mike Edelman's folder website -- I believe he has a short review already. You may also wish to subscribe to the "Bagboater" list on Yahoo. Don't forget Ralph Diaz's "Folding Kayaker" newsletter either!! He has (free) private buy and sell ads for folders on the back page of every issue. All comments on Mark Eckhardt's "Mk-II" have been exceedingly positive regarding price and quality. The hull lines are apparently similar to the AE-II. Best regards, Ralph Ralph_at_PouchBoats.com www.PouchBoats.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > > Ah, I remember those ads... but I never had the scratch to buy one back > when I was a Scout... > > I recently had the loan of a Long Haul Mark-II for the better part of a > month, and essentially it's an improved Klepper. Better hull, better > frame design, better connectors. . I have a somewhat more detailed > review of it on my web pages: > > http://foldingkayaks.org/lhdetails.html > > best, > > -- mike Seems like I borrowed part of the money from my uncle with a promise to repay. I'm not sure that I payed it all back, but hey, that was over 40 years ago. I checked out your review and photos which encouraged me to call Mark and ask some questions about the boat. The price is certainly more attractive than the Klepper and Mark seems to have a terrific reputation among the folder community. The first question I asked was his age. I wanted to make sure that he was younger than me so that he would be available to take care of the boat. I don't think that Klepper would be very interested in that job. Since your very familiar with Kleppers et al. How long do the red decks last before they pink out? I really like red for visability, but kin general, red dyes seem to fade rather quickly. I've never seen a red Klepper with a few years on it. Any thoughts. Your website is terrific. Between you and Ralph, you've provided a real service to the folder community. John MacKechnie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John wrote: > How long do the red decks last > before they pink out? I really like red for visability, but kin general, red > dyes seem to fade rather quickly. I've never seen a red Klepper with a few > years on it. Any thoughts. In Germany, red decks have a reputation of being the quickest ones to fade. Blue, for example, keeps its color much longer. That's true for canvas decks, I don't know about synthetic decks. Of course, dying is always a matter of UV penetration. If you always keep your boat in the house, it will keep its color much longer. But this is not what boats were invented for, right? :-) While I had back problems (the call it a "witch shot" over here, don't know the correct medical term) I came up with a strange idea: my 1950's once-bordeaux-colored deck has faded into a white pink / rosé. On the inside, however, it still has this beautiful bordeaux (great for spoiling red wine onto the deck - no traces afterwards ... :-)). So I thought about cutting the deck-hull-seams, turn the deck and sew it to the hull upside down. People on the German-language Faltbootforum (www.faltboot.de/dt/forum.html) quickly convinced me that this was merely a stupid idea, coming out of a strange mind that has been lying on its back for too long ... :-) Arguments were that the inside of the hull has been subject to abrasion by the frame, thus it is weaker than the outside part. Also, the work would be much more than I thought ( you can get a new Pouch boats deck for some 250 to 350 US$ and I was looking at some 20-40 hours of work). Probably the strongest argument was that an old boat should really show its age: while new boats have not much history, old boats with faded decks really can tell story after story. Since then, I again enjoy paddling my pink / dark rosé decked boat. Cheers, Marian -- Marian Gunkel, Berlin, Germany http://www.mariangunkel.de *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John wrote: > How long do the red decks last > before they pink out? I really like red for visability, but kin general, red > dyes seem to fade rather quickly. I've never seen a red Klepper with a few > years on it. Any thoughts. Marian wrote >Probably the strongest argument was that an old boat should really show >its age: while new boats have not much history, old boats with faded > decks really can tell story after story G'Day, I do agree with Marian about the beauty of faded boats but for strong UV content light such as we have here it is a good idea to try to slow down the fading. Theres a 303 product called "Fabricguard" which will slow down fading in cotton fabric boats such as the Klepper. It normally comes in a spray can which is expensive and wasteful. It is possible to buy it in gallon cans and its best to apply it in the open air or a very well ventilated place using a paint brush rather than a spray. Less wastage and less inhalation. Fabricguard Is not intended for synthetics and should'nt be applied to the hypalon hull as it tends to swell the material. It doesn't matter if some drops land on the hull they will wipe off without damage. All the best, PeterO (Australia where the UV is something fierce) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "John MacKechnie" <bigmac1_at_enter.net> > > Since your very familiar with Kleppers et al. How long do the red decks last > before they pink out? I really like red for visability, but kin general, red > dyes seem to fade rather quickly. I've never seen a red Klepper with a few > years on it. Any thoughts. The red canvas deck holds up pretty well against becoming pink. I suppose it would fade eventually if gruelling left out in the Sun. I have seen this with the olived drab deck on Eric Stiller's Southern Cross Klepper which he and Tony Brown paddled some 4,000 miles along the Australian Coast from Sydney to Darwin. It had turned a khaki color. But I have not seen a Klepper deck faded to pink. I did see a Feathercraft turn that color. They were once offering a nice magenta but they dropped it because of the quick fading to pink. I am confident enough of my masculinity in a magenta boat but not in a pink! :-) Mark Ekhardt of Long Haul does indeed have a stellar reputation for his workmanship in repairs and innovation with Kleppers when he ran their repair service and began his Long Haul line of aftermarket products and modifications (he preceded Klepper in making zippered decks). I have not seen the Long Haul double that he now manufacturers but I did discuss the innovations and updates he made to the basic Klepper and they do seem to be advances from what he describes. I believe I told this story before. I first became aware of Mark's work around 1991 when I was at the first Balogh sail get-together on the North Carolina coast. Someone had a single Klepper that made me do a double-take. I could tell by some tell-tale small details that it was a version that was at least 15 years old at the time (Klepper makes minute changes that only the literati could detect) but it looked as if the boat had come right out a factory shipping box. I learned that it had been an older boat refurbished by Mark. I asked around and Klepper was not even aware of his existence although one would think that his purchasing of lots of fittings etc. would draw some raised eyebrows. I told the owners in Germany about him. They saw his work and brought he and his wife for a few weeks stay in Rosenheim so that he could get more formal training, not that he seemed to need much, if any. They then set him up as the official repair center. Sadly, last year there was a business-related falling out between Mark and the present owners and ties were severed. Lots of accusations from both sides. I tried to intercede over several days when I was in Rosenheim last year for the opening of the Klepper Museum even offering some temporary solutions. But my efforts over there were to no avail since by then the battlelines were too hardened and embittered. Such fallings-out are not unusual in the kayaking business. There are a number of these that several of us on PaddleWise could relate from the hardshell world especially involving importation of British boats. In one case I know of, the falling out also resulted in the local guy starting to produce his own line of boats to make up for the loss of the imported ones. I don't know what became of this eventually. ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John MacKechnie wrote: >SNIP >Since your very familiar with Kleppers et al. How long do the red decks last >before they pink out? I really like red for visability, but kin general, red >dyes seem to fade rather quickly. I've never seen a red Klepper with a few >years on it. Any thoughts. Then Ralp Diaz responded: SNIP But I have not seen a >Klepper deck faded to pink. I did see a Feathercraft turn that color. They >were once offering a nice magenta but they dropped it because of the quick >fading to pink. I am confident enough of my masculinity in a magenta boat >but not in a pink! :-) Dear Ralph, John, et al, Considering only visibility, magenta and pink might be superior to red and thus more desirable, however maybe not in a faded condition. I used to think that, having the color choice on a new boat purchase, I would choose to get my favorite red (or perhaps candy apple red on a hard shell). Along the way, my wife acquired a red decked boat and I was very disappointed at how well it stood out. Granted this is my perception, however I found her boat didn't offer much contrast to the water, especially in low light conditions. Commando camping aside, I think getting a high visibility boat is most desirable. If I ever get to choose the color, I think I shall go for yellow, especially if it's a folder. What are other people's opinions/experience? Bill Leonhardt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: "Leonhardt, William J" <wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov> > Considering only visibility, magenta and pink might be superior to red and > thus more desirable, however maybe not in a faded condition. I used to > think that, having the color choice on a new boat purchase, I would choose > to get my favorite red (or perhaps candy apple red on a hard shell). Along > the way, my wife acquired a red decked boat and I was very disappointed at > how well it stood out. Granted this is my perception, however I found her > boat didn't offer much contrast to the water, especially in low light > conditions. Red is not all that visible in low light as you mention. It is superior to blue and green but yellow would be better. > Commando camping aside, I think getting a high visibility boat is most > desirable. If I ever get to choose the color, I think I shall go for > yellow, especially if it's a folder. Are you saying this about a folder with anything in mind? Some folders do darken a but when the deck gets wet and that is why yellow would be good. This is true of foldables with cordura or canvas decks. The Feathercrafts with their kind of coated decks do not darken nor do the PVC decks seen in post 1995 Nautiraids (some cheaper models got PVC earlier). If you really want to be seen use neon colors. ralph *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph Diaz wrote: >If you really want to be seen use neon colors. A very long thread a while back on the Safety listserv I participate on tended to agree with Ralph, with fluorescent lime green being best and yellow being 2nd, if I remember correctly. Regards, Ellis YELLOW Sedas - Impulse & Tango http://www.magnus.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/11/2002 12:06:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov writes: > If I ever get to choose the color, I think I shall go for > yellow, especially if it's a folder. > > What are other people's opinions/experience? > Hardshell: black on black with light blue contrasting deck lines, hull and keel strip. Folder: Black hull and olive drab deck. Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When I bought my Klepper about three years ago, I was advised against buying a yellow one, although it was one of my favorite colors for reasons of looks as well as visibility. The dealer said he had bad experiences with this color being very attractive to the kind of mosquitos we have here in the Netherlands and paddling it here would be hell. So I chose one in the color "mint", which is blueish bright green. In the mean time it has faded just a little, but it still looks nice. I still get stung once in a while, though ;-) Someone I know just bought one in the the color "olive", which actually looks like gray mud, and I think it looks horrible. But, it's the military's favorite color, or so I heard ;-) regards, Kees *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
If I recall correctly from previous P'Wise discussions, not to mention personal experiences, boat color is somewhat irrelevant if you are trying to be seen from the water (as opposed to an air search or something similar). Nonetheless, the yellows and flourescents are the most visibile, but the boat profile is so low that the boat won't be easily seen regardless of color. The first visible sign of a kayaker is the flashing paddle blades, second is the PFD. In both instances, of course, this assumes you are not using dark colors like black blades or a dark PFD. It also assumes you are in daylight, and sky conditions are clear. Throw in darkness, haze, fog, heavy rains, snow etc and the whole situation changes. So, if I recall correctly, the general outcome of the prior discussion was to get highly visible paddle blades and PFD, but whatever color you like for the actual boat. Carry lights with you to improve visibility in low light situations, and put reflective tape on your paddle blades and PFD. Unless an air search is trying to spot a capsized hull, forget hull color as a safety issue. And dont forget that the majority of hulls on glass boats are white, which blend in with whitecaps, so don't bank on trying to be spotted from the air with a white hull. Again, I'm no expert - this is from my recollection of prior discussions on P'Wise and is from the visibility perspective of other boaters (ie: low to the water themselves). The other exception is being seen by PWCs. Color is totally irellevant since they'll find you no matter how hard you try to stay away from them. I think it's some sort of magnetic thing :-) Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
----- Original Message ----- From: <Rick.Sylvia_at_ferguson.com> > If I recall correctly from previous P'Wise discussions, not to mention personal experiences, boat color is somewhat irrelevant if you are trying to be seen from the water (as opposed to an air search or something similar). Nonetheless, the yellows and flourescents are the most visibile, but the boat profile is so low that the boat won't be easily seen regardless of color. < You know, I am not sure how the low profile of a kayak comes into this equation. While it is low, what you are hoping will see you are people in motor or sail craft whose eyeballs are at least 12 feet above the surface of the water (in commercial vessels the eyeballs are 25 feet and up from the water), i.e. they are looking down toward you and will see more deck than say another kayaker will. Whenever I am out on a large vessel such as a ferry or excursion boat I make a point of seeing how well I can spot kayakers. Quite well if there decks are bright, and as you said, their paddles and PFDs bright as well. Now, mind you, I am on the lookout for the kayaks, which motorboat operators may not be doing as much as me. But I think with more kayakers on the water, more skippers are alert to out presence and not just looking out for larger vessels than us *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> You know, I am not sure how the low profile of a kayak comes into this > equation. While it is low, what you are hoping will see you > are people in > motor or sail craft whose eyeballs are at least 12 feet above > the surface of > the water (in commercial vessels the eyeballs are 25 feet and > up from the > water), i.e. they are looking down toward you and will see > more deck than > say another kayaker will. That's true, if you are on a ferry, big sailboat, a large pleasure craft, a "ship" or whatnot. But I suppose I was thinking more from the perspective of PWCs, small runabout pleasure boats (like a 16 ft bow rider), small 1-2 person sailboats, etc. Things that are lower to the water than the 12' height Ralph mentioned. Also, Ralph's perspective seems to be from that of a responsible boater who is actually on the lookout for things in their path. Mine is from the perspective of a drunk teenager who borrowed dads pleasure boat for a little afternoon fun with his friends and has 1/2 an eye out for other boaters, but not things as small as kayakers. In the end, I guess you have to throw into the equation "from what type of platform are you trying to be seen" and "in what scenario are you trying to be seen". Personally, in my home waters, I'm less concerned with big sailboats and commercial vessels as I am with teenagers on PWCs or small runabouts, which are relatively low to the water themselves. Their boats are fast and small enough that they bounce around on the chop and the "captains" have lots of wind and sea spray in their faces. These are the guys that I hope see my paddle flash or bright yellow PFD before they get close enough to see the color of my deck. In my neck of the woods, those larger boats that Ralph mentions are going to be in big, big trouble if they get out of the shipping lanes or "regular" channels, and I simply steer clear of those lanes and channels. This part of the Cheseapeake Bay is relatively shallow. In fact, off of Plum Tree NWR (my favorite local paddling place) I can go several miles offshore (in places, not everywhere) and still be in water only up to my waist at low tide, and we only have a Mean Range of a few feet. This area is predominantly "flats" until you get further into the bay. Anyway, I'm not an expert on the subject, I'm just using some personal observations and drawing on my memory of prior P'Wise disccussions. Ralph has far, far more expereince and kayaking knolwedge than I do, so perhaps my comments are just relative to situations that I have personally found myself in. Rick - Poquoson, VA *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Leonhardt, William J [SMTP:wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov] Considering only visibility, magenta and pink might be superior to red and thus more desirable, however maybe not in a faded condition. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ During WWII, there was a theory that pink easily blended in with other colors, so for a while, the tips of submarine periscopes were painted that color. Under this theory, pink would be a stealth color, at least for small objects (the above water part of a periscope was about the size of a broom handle). I think, however, that even for gray periscope tips it was the periscope's wake that attracted the eye, not the color. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 12:29 PM 7/12/02 -0500, Chuck Holst wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Leonhardt, William J [SMTP:wjleonhardt_at_bnl.gov] > >Considering only visibility, magenta and pink might be superior to red and >thus more desirable, however maybe not in a faded condition. I've mentioned this many times before here but from what I've read, the problem with red is that it is not very visible in low-light conditions. Under low light conditions, red starts to look black, not a good contrast on open water at night. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The urban legend that I heard about the color red and fire engines is that it is difficult to see at night. Yellow (chartreuse) is easier to see at night. The trucks began to appear sporting that odd shade of yellow. When it comes to night/ low light visibility I rely on SAR tape. I added a 1 inch stripe down the entire length of both sides of my yellow Avocet as well as on the carry toggles. Walmart now carries 12 packs of 2" x 4" SAR tape for $7.00. Jim et al > I've mentioned this many times before here but from what I've read, the > problem with red is that it is not very visible in low-light conditions. > Under low light conditions, red starts to look black, not a good contrast > on open water at night. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
writes: "During WWII, there was a theory that pink easily blended in with other colors, so for a while, the tips of submarine periscopes were painted that color. Under this theory, pink would be a stealth color, at least for small objects (the above water part of a periscope was about the size of a broom handle). I think, however, that even for gray periscope tips it was the periscope's wake that attracted the eye, not the color." Pinks and tans were, and still are, the favorite camo colors for desert warfare. Various shades of pale pink do mimic a variety of colors to the normal human eye. Drawing from camouflage history then; should we duplicate the dazzle patterns of WW 1 and to an extent WW 2, used on Allied shipping? The idea as I understand it was the foe plainly sees the ship, it's hard to miss, but the contrasting irregular black and white geometric patterns made it impossible to figure out what kind of vessel it was, its course, it's speed, or distance. Certainly the visibility would be there, but what reaction a slightly inebriated power boat operator may have to a small "fleet" of aquatic zebras is open to speculation. Kevin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The most visible kayak I ever saw belonged to a character who hung around the Downtown Boathouse. He had a sit-on-top kayak that he had added all kinds of junk, and I mean junk. To add to the junk he took neon paint (florescent green and some other color) and painted all over the sides and deck. I was paddling one day on the lower Hudson and I could spot his boat well over a mile away it was that visible. Trouble with what he did for others is who want to do this to a sleek fiberglass kayak? ralph diaz *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 7/12/2002 2:25:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jfarrelly5_at_comcast.net writes: > The urban legend that I heard about the color red and fire engines is > that it is difficult to see at night. It's not an urban legend. I sold visual and audible signals for emergency vehicles for 9 years and one of the principles of that field is that red is more visible in daylight. Red is seen distinctly by 2 of the 3 cones in your eyes. Red contrasts neatly under bluish sunlight. However, night visibility of red is poor, not just as a flat color but of illumination (relatively speaking). That discussion degenerates into nature of the light source, reflectivity of paint and decals and maintenance of system. Not really for here but any questions back channel me. Dave's Jpegs clearly reinforce how poor a chance an embattled small craft in red, or any color, would have of being seen by a search plane flying at 75-100mph. Personally, I'm not worried about work boats seeing me.They move fast and predictably (relatively speaking) and I stay well out of their way. Color may offer some advantage in short range situations where the zig-zagging (fast and unpredictable) pleasure craft pilot might ID the color quicker from disadvantaged perspectives, ie, watching the skier, icechest or the passengers, not the path ahead. In my opinion paddlers should pick the color or non color they like the best and look around a whole lot. Dos Pesos, Rob G *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Seems to me one of our members who is a retired SAR jockey said some years ago that the color that stood out from altitude was Robins Egg Blue -- as I (dimly) recall, this advantage came from the facts that (1) nothing on the sea comes in that color naturally, and (2) it's bright. Bob Volin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - Any opinions or suggestions expressed here are solely those of the writer(s). You must assume the entire responsibility for reliance upon them. All postings copyright the author. Submissions: PaddleWise_at_PaddleWise.net Subscriptions: PaddleWise-request_at_PaddleWise.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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